588 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

This argument would be a lot more convincing if reverse-engineering a drive that violates the known laws of physics inside of two years wasn't already known to have happened in ME.
 

You're going to have to show me where a drive that violated known laws of physics was successfully reverse-engineered.

 

I mean, yeah they reversed the thanix into a smaller, weaker version of the cannon.  But I don't recall anything about an engine.

 

 

Reaper drives need fuel?

Unless the Reapers have invented a Perpetual Motion Machine (which I guess would be a violation of known physical laws) then yeah, they'd need fuel.  At least for their organic bits.

[Iakus]

Let's say Reapers don't need to discharge their drives. The ship is built on reverse engineered reaper technology. Great, whatever. I'm not the first one to say that. Maybe it's even legit. I don't remember, but after all the ridiculous nonsense of the latter two thirds of the trilogy, it's hard to care that much. It's a retcon that I'm happy to handwave away, if so. I imagine a great many other players will be as well.

 

In any event, good riddance to bad rubbish. The MW is damaged goods after ME2 and ME3, and I'm ecstatic to be leaving.

Even assuming all the technological issues are swept aside.  By all the Catalyst's "logic" Andromeda should be overrun by genocidal synthetics far more advanced than even the Reapers.  Because such a revolution is "inevitable".  

 

That or they've achieved green Stepfordness already.

[Ahriman]

You're going to have to show me where a drive that violated known laws of physics was successfully reverse-engineered.

 

I mean, yeah they reversed the thanix into a smaller, weaker version of the cannon.  But I don't recall anything about an engine.

You can have no idea about Lift Force, that doesn't stop you from reproducing plains if you got one. Besides ME scientists thought Sovereign used energy weapon (he probably didn't realize that until ME2 though) yet apparently it used almost traditional eezo weapon scheme.

 By all the Catalyst's "logic" Andromeda should be overrun by genocidal synthetics far more advanced than even the Reapers.  Because such a revolution is "inevitable". 

Catalyst is bathshit broken as his logic, you can even get proof for that in-game through quarian-geth conflict.

[AlanC9]

You're going to have to show me where a drive that violated known laws of physics was successfully reverse-engineered.

The standard mass effect drive. It doesn't violate the laws of physics after you understand it, of course.

[Pasquale1234]

The standard mass effect drive. It doesn't violate the laws of physics after you understand it, of course.

Ever get the feeling that one little line about violating known laws of physics in the lore supercedes all else with some folks?

I'd guess the writer tossed that in there to emphasize the reaper threat. It's not much different from Sovereign's preening (we are beyond your comprehension) in ME1.

[Iakus]

The standard mass effect drive. It doesn't violate the laws of physics after you understand it, of course.

And I'm sure a cave man can reverse-engineer a space heater works, once they understand fire.

 

You realize humanity was already in the process of studying FTL when they found the Mars archives, right?

 

"violates known laws of physics" is a codex entry, meant to be from the pov of the galaxy as a whole, even after studying some reaper tech.  It isn't just Reaper posturing, 

[themikefest]

Destroy won't be chosen since it won't have any effect in the game.

 

If  Mass Effect were to go back to the Milky Way, I do see destroy being chosen.

[AlanC9]

And I'm sure a cave man can reverse-engineer a space heater works, once they understand fire.
 
You realize humanity was already in the process of studying FTL when they found the Mars archives, right?
 
"violates known laws of physics" is a codex entry, meant to be from the pov of the galaxy as a whole, even after studying some reaper tech.  It isn't just Reaper posturing,

What's your point? Obviously the Reaper drive can't actually violate the laws of physics, since it works. We just don't know how.

Are you maybe saying that humans had a theory about mass effect fields before discovering eezo? That's not really stated anywhere -- the theories that they were working on at Gagarin Station were bad, according to Kaidan. We don't have any information about the state of theoretical physics in 2143. Or afterward, for that matter -- it's not even clear from the Codex that the Citadel races understand why eezo does what it does.

[AlanC9]

Ever get the feeling that one little line about violating known laws of physics in the lore supercedes all else with some folks?

I'd guess the writer tossed that in there to emphasize the reaper threat. It's not much different from Sovereign's preening (we are beyond your comprehension) in ME1.

Looks like you called it.

[Pasquale1234]

And I'm sure a cave man can reverse-engineer a space heater works, once they understand fire.

Funny thing about fire - people figured out how to use it long before they understood any of the internal physics or chemistry involved. The same is true of electricity.

Good old Chorban certainly did manage to infer a lot about the origins of the keepers, Sovereign, and the Citadel, all from the data collected from scanning 20 keepers.

[Quarian Master Race]

Catalyst is bathshit broken as his logic, you can even get proof for that in-game through quarian-geth conflict.

How. There are 3 outcomes to that conflict.

1) Quarians destroy Geth
2) Geth genocide quarians from existence
3) Geth forcibly subjugate quarians and animosity remains fully intact.

The first two vindicate its logic completely. The third one does not at all preclude future conflicts either, the result of which will almost certainly be organic exinction due to how far the geth have advanced via Reaper code.

[Killroy]

How. There are 3 outcomes to that conflict.

1) Quarians destroy Geth
2) Geth genocide quarians from existence
3) Geth forcibly subjugate quarians and animosity remains fully intact.

The first two vindicate its logic completely. The third one does not at all preclude future conflicts either, the result of which will almost certainly be organic exinction due to how far the geth have advanced via Reaper code.

The hell are you talking about? You can broker a lasting peace between the Quarians and Geth.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, I'm not sure where point 3 is coming from.

[Former_Fiend]

It's coming from the fact that it's Quarian Master Race posting.

[Nitrocuban]

What OP does not understand: MEA is set in Andromeda for that very reason.

Bioware will never ever say anything about ME3's endings in MEA.

That'll be like putting sugar in your Coke Zero

[Drone223]

Using known technology.

1. The Salarians or Asari could have had a secret research project.
 

The crucible is already taking a huge strain on the galaxies resources and manpower their wouldn't be enough of either to carry out such a project.

 

 

2. Given that the series already relies on found tech, perhaps new tech was discovered serendipitously.
 

Suddenly finding such technology during the reaper war will come off as contrived/too convenient its doesn't make for good writing. Not to mention the reaper's leave some their technology to be found on purpose so no other species can technologically surpass them "with it you evolve along the paths we desire."

 

 

3. A benevolent alien race exists that bootstraps anyone bold enough to venture into the intergalactic void.

 

Why should they care about us? The reaper war is of no concern to them and the reaper's aren't going to attack them anytime soon.

 

I thought of those in 10 seconds. Don't be so quick to assume that the writers can't invent a viable solution.
That's how foreshadowing works. I once saw foreshadowing in a documentary (Anvil! The Story of Anvil). It doesn't need to be planned or intended to be there.

 

No it doesn't, foreshadowing needs to be planned and properly built up we see none of that in ME3, its going to come out of nowhere like star child and Lazarus project.

 

 

If we're regarding MEA as more or less a "reboot" of the series (I don't know where you fall on the subject, but it seems Bioware is at least), then I don't really see any huge issue with a few contrivances or minor retcons to kick the thing off. Hell, put it in an alternate universe, no references to the original trilogy whatsoever, I'm happy. It'll be a fresh start, which is what we need.

But its not going to be a reboot or AU its going to be set in the same universe thus the game operates on the same laws as the trilogy. Also the retcons and contrivances are not even close to being small they actually pretty big.

 

I notice you removed the bit where you denied being illogical. Finally being honest with yourself, eh?

I never was illiogical.

[FKA_Servo]

But its not going to be a reboot or AU its going to be set in the same universe thus the game operates on the same laws as the trilogy. Also the retcons and contrivances are not even close to being small they actually pretty big.

 So, "soft" reboot.

 

I'd be ok for any of the solutions suggested by Sylvius or other posters here. Hell, let them make a self-sufficient ship that travels at conventional FTL speeds and let them get there 500+ years down the road, if that's more lore-acceptable. The more time and distance from ME3, the better. Althrough, truly - if it's just to kick things off, I don't see a problem with some sort of excessively convenient deus ex machina swooping in to get us the hell out of Dodge. As long as the new work ignores everything that's come before it, I don't see why it needs to bother us.

 

I have zero problems completely burying ME2, ME3, and even ME1, though that last one is bittersweet. I just want something that will recapture the feel of the first game. If they have to change things, c'est la vie. It needs to be done.

[Drone223]

This is a comical logic fail. The reapers are incompetent. They couldn't even build the Crucible in billions of years. Their mandate is applied in a manner that can only be described as incoherent gibberish.

The mandate itself was broad in nature so it's logical to apply it to other galaxies. If the reaper's can't do it in the billions of years they've existed than neither should the galaxy.

 

There's no obstacle to some as yet unseen precursor tech taking people to Andromeda.

 

That's still a DEM it'd be no better than synthesis and Lazarus project.

 

Or a wormhole, which may be naturally occurring phenomena.

That opens up its own can of worms since it'll still be way too convenient.

[FKA_Servo]

Even assuming all the technological issues are swept aside.  By all the Catalyst's "logic" Andromeda should be overrun by genocidal synthetics far more advanced than even the Reapers.  Because such a revolution is "inevitable".  

 

That or they've achieved green Stepfordness already.

 

I guess my core issue is that ME2 and ME3 essentially negated all the good feelings I have about most of the trilogy. So I take the rest of the things I really like about it that weren't soured by the story - the overarching setting, the alien races, the beautiful art design, the nebulous "feel" that they nailed with ME1 - and I hope that they carry it into the new setting, the new story, which as far as I'm concerned, can exist separately and distinctly from the original trilogy.

 

I just want a game that makes me feel like I'm playing ME1 again for the first time. I have no compunctions about them flat out rewriting some lore or universal rules in the process.

[Quarian Master Race]

The hell are you talking about? You can broker a lasting peace between the Quarians and Geth.

You mean they don't shoot each other in the short term? I suppose the US and USSR were allies during the Cold War then.

According to Admiral Raan, the two refuse to put their forces in close proximity for fear of violent incidents. Also of note is that there was initially a post Rannoch sidemission that involved Xen hacking geth and turning them into suicide bombers, and the geth getting upset about it. The writers never intended for you to view that ceasefire as rainbow farting unicorns. The only reason they stop killing each other ia that the quarians realize they are beaten and the geth that the quarians are useful.

Are you referring to the synthesis ending? The one that also magically makes Wreav into a rational individual? What about control, where the geth and quarians are deliberately shown not working together, with probably the only thing keeping the conflict from restarting being Shepalyst.

It'd have been interesting to see what happens with destroy if it didn't wipe out the toasters.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

We have reached forum singularity. We have gone from being unable to stop the cycle of threads about ME 3's ending to making threads condemning the opening of the next game years before it even comes out.

 

The circle is complete.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Come on, we know for a fact from the graphic after the Suicide Mission in ME2 that the reapers flew over 150,000 LY without discharging or stopping at your local Chevron station for fuel. I think they suck up dark matter and use that for fuel. Yeah! That's what they do.

 

And whose to say "there's a lot here that got squandered?" Liara? She still thought those drawings in the Temple of Athame were of Asari even though Ashley could figure out they were Prothean. Wow that was entertaining. Would it occur to her that her own people didn't tell her everything? By the Goddess she was shocked that they kept a secret. What technological wonders did the Asari glean from that Prothean archive? Cryo tech that can preserve a race for 50,000 years?

 

And that research facility on Ilos? Oh, they told Shepard it was dead. Hmmm.... They also said "Ah, yes, 'reapers'...... we've dismissed that myth." Even though Sovereign as a REAPER was fully documented in the Citadel Archives. So whose to say the research facility was really completely dead? Bring in some power generators and extract some scientific data, and voila! more tech!

 

Then like I've said... the derelict reaper and Cerberus.... and that Asari Matriarch.... and The Illusive Man.... did she meld with him? I wonder. See Reaper FTL schematics, Reaper Power Core,

 

The details for the plot of how the Ark gets built and how we get to Andromeda are in the plot holes of the ME trilogy.

[Ahriman]

How. There are 3 outcomes to that conflict.

1) Quarians destroy Geth
2) Geth genocide quarians from existence
3) Geth forcibly subjugate quarians and animosity remains fully intact.

The first two vindicate its logic completely. The third one does not at all preclude future conflicts either, the result of which will almost certainly be organic exinction due to how far the geth have advanced via Reaper code.

1) Starbrat says that creators are always destroyed by their creations. When creations are destroyed by creators that doesn't really seem like "complete vindication" to me.

3) Oh, hmm, k.

[Sanunes]

What I have gathered is no matter which way BioWare decides to proceed with the game people are going to take issue with it.

[LinksOcarina]

Or maybe we just stop asking questiosn and just go with it

 

If only it were that simple...