588 réponses à ce sujet

[Drone223]

It has no obvious restrictions. That's not the same thing.

Do we know that Reaper programming allows for the possibility of life outside the galaxy? How do we know that?

We need to know that in order for logic to lead anywhere nesr your conclusion.

If there is life in the Milky way then its almost certain that life exist in other galaxies.

 

And you ask this question because all scientific advancements have alresdy occurred?

It isn't inplemebted because they didn't figure it out yet. Necessity is the mother of invention. Or because bureaucracy slowed it down. Or because whoever was developing it wanted to keep it a secret.

 

 

The laws regarding the opening of inactive relay's after the rachni war is enough to warrant the development of such technology and 2000+ years is more than sufficient to have that technology developed. But that raises the question as to why the reaper's didn't solve that problem earlier and they had billions of years to figure it out.

 

Why are you so convinced that there's no answer to questions just because you don't know for sure what the answer is?
None of those things will matter if they get killed by the Reapers. You can't win game 7 without first getting to game 7.

 

Its important to plan ahead when fleeing the galaxy in order settle another because the people on the ark are going to have no allies in another galaxy and will be at a huge disadvantage.

 

Let's assume they have the means to get the ark out of the Milky Way. Let's further assume that their destruction by the Reapers is imminent. How would any of that other stuff be relevant? Escaping the Reapers now allows future development. Getting killed by the Reapers does not.

Or do you think they'd just accept destruction because they hadn't worked out ever detail in advance?

Their leaving behind a lot of their history and people without even trying to save them when clearly they still had a chance to save them.

 

 

No one is suggesting they will do that. But to hold your opinion, you need to be confident that no acceptable explanation is possible, and that's an absurd position.

 

 

Bioware's track record of hand waving things such as the Lazarus project and synthesis says otherwise, trends are something that can't be ignored since they give a good indication on what to expect.

 

It would make about as much sense as the Reapers telling us that they were beyond our comprehension in the first game. That narrative standard has already been established.
 

Its never as simple as they want to helping for the sake of helping.

 

 

They're not running away. They're doing an important job to preserve civilization. How does staying behind to get killed help?

 

Their running away before they even have chance to deploy plan A (the crucible) and has yet to fail.

 

And, your question was about why it would matter to the intergalactic benevolvence.

What exactly does the galaxy have to offer in terms in technology or resources? It's to believe that their only going it out of altruism.

 

 

They can't explain every detail. You have to some of the work to suspend your disbelief. If there's a hole, just don't fill it with something that breaks the story. That's all you have to do. Don't invent inconsistent lore.

 

Their making inconsistent lore by breaking their own laws they've created for the universe by making things as they go along.

[Drone223]

And the Ark received one line. One line is more than nothing. Not the same.

 

One throw away line in a 30-40 that the dev's gave no thought game is pretty similar to being nothing.

 

That it can be taken for something else is what makes it good foreshadowing. Foreshadowing shouldn't be obvious. Then it would be telegraphing, not foreshadowing.

 

It can't it was never it developed after that line and the fact that they had no intention of making another ME game confirms this.

[Drone223]

You seem to be completely unaware of the concept of diminishing returns. Exhaust all resources? What would you be saving?
This is what I mean when I say you're illogical.

They invested too much into the crucible in the hopes it would save the galaxy they can't go back on using it.

[In Exile]

You're going to have to show me where a drive that violated known laws of physics was successfully reverse-engineered.

I mean, yeah they reversed the thanix into a smaller, weaker version of the cannon. But I don't recall anything about an engine.

When we used Prothean tech to create FTL drives in universe. The very idea of FTL in ME is an FU to the laws of physics. Yet we handled that part of the application of mass effect fields. This is no different.

[Drone223]

When we used Prothean tech to create FTL drives in universe. The very idea of FTL in ME is an FU to the laws of physics. Yet we handled that part of the application of mass effect fields. This is no different.

Its not ME FTL is accepted as part of how the ME universe operates as long as FTL operates within the laws of the ME universe then its not a problem. If something breaks those laws that's when the problems start.

[Killroy]

They invested too much into the crucible in the hopes it would save the galaxy they can't go back on using it.

Who can't? The Crucible fired. How does an Ark project interfere with that at all?

[PhroXenGold]

Bioware is sliding Mass Effect to Andromeda like how Bethesda pulls a change of venue in The Elder Scrolls, but at least Bethesda isn't rectonning or skirting the established lore. Bioware should be taking a page from the Deus Ex universe and pick the ending that can further the continuation of the Mass Effect universe. And once again Synthesis makes everyone a Borg, Control has the Reapers hanging over head permanently, and Refuse leaves the universe in ruins without exception.

 

Refuse leaves the Milky Way in ruins. But given that we're not in the Milky Way any more, that hardly matters....

[Drone223]

Who can't? The Crucible fired. How does an Ark project interfere with that at all?

The crucible is draining a lot of the galaxies resources they can't afford to build and ark along side it since it would have a similar scale.

[Former_Fiend]

Any assessment on what proportion of galactic resources the Crucible project took up is pure supposition. It was obviously a huge investment, but saying that it was such a large investment that the ARK project would be impossible or unfeasible because of it cannot be said definitively. Besides, Bioware is the arbiter of what the Milky Way can and cannot afford, not any of us.

 

Whether or not it strains a given individual's suspension of disbelief that two huge secret projects of this nature were carried out within the same timeframe is going to vary from person to person, and I think that it's unfair to make that judgment without hearing Bioware's justifications for it, first.

[Chealec]

...

Its important to plan ahead when fleeing the galaxy in order settle another because the people on the ark are going to have no allies in another galaxy and will be at a huge disadvantage.

...

Their leaving behind a lot of their history and people without even trying to save them when clearly they still had a chance to save them.

...

Their running away before they even have chance to deploy plan A (the crucible) and has yet to fail.

...

Swap "galaxy" for "country" and you'll find this has already happened countless times in history... it's merely a difference of scale; and the size of the Reaper threat warrants it.

Even the Protheans failed to get the Crucible deployed and working - it was always going to be a long shot with a high probability of failure. Especially since nobody actually knew what it would do.

There was more than enough reason to try and develop an exit plan - so it then boils down to could it be done rather than should it be done. BioWare says it could and it's their story... we're just along for the ride.

[Drone223]

Any assessment on what proportion of galactic resources the Crucible project took up is pure supposition. It was obviously a huge investment, but saying that it was such a large investment that the ARK project would be impossible or unfeasible because of it cannot be said definitively. Besides, Bioware is the arbiter of what the Milky Way can and cannot afford, not any of us.

 

Whether or not it strains a given individual's suspension of disbelief that two huge secret projects of this nature were carried out within the same timeframe is going to vary from person to person, and I think that it's unfair to make that judgment without hearing Bioware's justifications for it, first.

The crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy that's gives a good indication how much resources it takes up. If the crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy there is no way they can afford an ark project.

 

Swap "galaxy" for "country" and you'll find this has already happened countless times in history... it's merely a difference of scale; and the size of the Reaper threat warrants it.
 

A lot can go wrong in the journey to Andromeda alone and even if they do get to Andromeda their in no position to forge alliances with other species since they have nothing to offer and their practically defenseless.

 

Even the Protheans failed to get the Crucible deployed and working - it was always going to be a long shot with a high probability of failure. Especially since nobody actually knew what it would do.

 

It was quite obvious though that the galaxy was throwing all of its resources into the crucible so for better or for worse they committed themselves to it.

 

 

There was more than enough reason to try and develop an exit plan - so it then boils down to could it be done rather than should it be done. BioWare says it could and it's their story... we're just along for the ride.

"Because Bioware could do what they want" is not an excuse for contrived/bad writing.

[Former_Fiend]

The crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy that's gives a good indication how much resources it takes up. If the crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy there is no way they can afford an ark project.

 

Where is it said that it bankrupted the galaxy, because that is a piece of dialogue I most definitely missed. And can you be absolutely sure that the source that says that wasn't being hyperbolic?

 

Honestly the idea that it bankrupted the galaxy is, frankly, ridiculous in and of itself. I would have absolutely no problem if they retconned that nonsense, assuming it was meant as a serious statement in the first place.

[WarBaby2]

"Because Bioware could do what they want" is not an excuse for contrived/bad writing.

Well, in the the end it is, though... I mean, if the game itself is any good, all the contrived writing building the premise for it's story will not matter.

[Sentelin]

If ME:A just tries to sweep the mess that was ME3 ending structure under the rug without a short and sweat gloss over of the who, where and why of ME3's endgame then ignored inconsistencies will eat away at any and all plot forwarding development. First of all Synthesis would preclude all of ME:A as would likely the Refusal option. Then we look at Control and realistically the Reapers would prevent any and all attempts at a organic being exodus. Finally all that's left is Destroy which was the most selected player ending (even if I didn't go that way in my game) and it's the only one that can make any sense furthering the Mass Effect Universe.

 

I disagree with this.it will be exactly opposite, if they don't sweep under the rug, because ME 3 had definte ending, no matter what people say. It would just be a bloodier mess than ME 3 ending (I liked   ending I got, with extend ending DLC, does this makes me bad guy ? ).So for series to continue they have to start fresh and keep reference to previous titles as minimal as possible

[WarBaby2]

I disagree with this.it will be exactly opposite, if they don't sweep under the rug, because ME 3 had definte ending, no matter what people say. It would just be a bloodier mess than ME 3 ending (I liked   ending I got, with extend ending DLC, does this makes me bad guy ? ).So for series to continue they have to start fresh and keep reference to previous titles as minimal as possible

I think everyone knew, after ME3 was done with, the only way forward was either a)  complete reboot or a continuation of the story completely removed from the previous games by time or space... well, the went with the latter option.

[Chealec]

A lot can go wrong in the journey to Andromeda alone and even if they do get to Andromeda their in no position to forge alliances with other species since they have nothing to offer and their practically defenseless.

Irrelevant - refugees.

 

It was quite obvious though that the galaxy was throwing all of its resources into the crucible so for better or for worse they committed themselves to it.

 

They can't have thrown everything at the Crucible otherwise there wouldn't be enough resources to get to Andromeda ... and we already know that there were enough since that's where the new game is set.

 

"Because Bioware could do what they want" is not an excuse for contrived/bad writing.

Doesn't need an excuse - the fact of the matter is that BioWare can do whatever they want and wave it away with space magic if they like. You don't have to like it.

 

You can carry on constructing convoluted reasons as to why it's impossible and it changes nothing - it's obviously possible, it's happening.

[78stonewobble]

The crucible is draining a lot of the galaxies resources they can't afford to build and ark along side it since it would have a similar scale.

 

You do know, that the milky way contains something like over 46,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg's worth of materials right? 

 

Manpower, mining and refinery ressources maybe, but the catalyst is a drop in the bucket in regards to raw materials. 

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

We're talking about "logic" that inspires a creation to mulch its creators.

And both the Leviathans and the Catalyst agree that its mandate is to preserve life. At any cost.

Yes, but how is "life" defined in its programming? The Reapers may have been designed, either intentionally or by accident, to only consider the possibility of life within the Milky Way.

We don't know. So why would we assume the answer that makes the next story difficult? And if BioWare never explains it, I suggest that we should assume the answer that makes the next game better.

There is no reason to believe that the Reapers care at all about other galaxies. None at all. So why conclude that they do?

[Innocent Bystander]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually jumping up'n'down disagreeing with you. LAZINESS is mother of all invention.

They did the raid, but they had no part in the work that lead to the raid. The SEALS aren't an intelligence gathering organization, just like N7 isn't a space exploration organization.

But it still was SEALS mission, so colonizing Andromeda could be 'secret N7 programme' regardless of who planned it. Call it joint Council/Alliance initiative if you wish. Or something.

EDIT: Just realized. If it isn't considered military operation, then it would have nothing to do with N7, it would be just civilian operation with N7 detail for protection and stuff.

[FKA_Servo]

Well, in the the end it is, though... I mean, if the game itself is any good, all the contrived writing building the premise for it's story will not matter.

 

This, pretty much. I hope they keep things consistent going forward, but I'm all the way on board with breaking some established rules if necessary to kick things off.

 

And I still hope we're not playing military or another goddamn N7,

[Sylvius the Mad]

If there is life in the Milky way then its almost certain that life exist in other galaxies.

That's true, and also not at all relevant to the point I was making.

The laws regarding the opening of inactive relay's after the rachni war is enough to warrant the development of such technology and 2000+ years is more than sufficient to have that technology developed. But that raises the question as to why the reaper's didn't solve that problem earlier and they had billions of years to figure it out.

They might not have been trying. They make several assumptions about the course of technological development the organic races will take. They appear not to be innovative.

Its important to plan ahead when fleeing the galaxy in order settle another because the people on the ark are going to have no allies in another galaxy and will be at a huge disadvantage.

That's certainly true. Not having a plan would be extremely reckless, and very foolish if you had the option not to do that.

That option may not have been available.

Their leaving behind a lot of their history and people without even trying to save them when clearly they still had a chance to save them.

Yes, but there's also a chance they'll fail regardless. The ark is a hedge. The ark isn't leaving because the Reapers are going to win. The ark is leaving because the Reapers might win.

Staying behind to fight puts all civilization's eggs in one basket. The ark is an attempt to change the rules of the game, so that the Reapers can't win.

Its never as simple as they want to helping for the sake of helping.

No one is claiming it is.

Their running away before they even have chance to deploy plan A (the crucible) and has yet to fail.

Yes. It's a hedge. Waiting until they know they need it risks the Reapers finding it.

What exactly does the galaxy have to offer in terms in technology or resources? It's to believe that their only going it out of altruism.

What are you talking about?

Their making inconsistent lore by breaking their own laws they've created for the universe by making things as they go along.

They're not necessarily breaking their lore. They might be - BioWare doesn't seem to mind doing that - but we don't yet have reason to believe that they are.

You're jumping to conclusions.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually jumping up'n'down disagreeing with you. LAZINESS is mother of all invention.

If that were true, we'd have useful fusion power by now.

But because energy from other sources is both cheap and plentiful, we don't bother.

[78stonewobble]

It's often irked me tho, that the alliance, never really took the reapers "seriously". The saw sovereign first hand and there wasn't even a mention of a backroom planning/contingency department atleast trying to design eg. a capital ship that could punch straight through a reaper (scale up dreadnought til it works and yes it's that simple). It's one thing that they couldn't possibly finish a fleet of them in time or even one... but they could atleast have thought about it...

 

It would be a nice plot twist, if they actually took it so seriously, that they (possibly other council races too) planned and executed the "ark" project as the contingency plan. 

 

Wouldn't even really have to have any information about how the war with the reapers turned out, since it was launched before that. 

[Innocent Bystander]

If that were true, we'd have useful fusion power by now.
But because energy from other sources is both cheap and plentiful, we don't bother.

Yes, but we DO have that energy and not because we need it, but because we're too lazy (and spoiled) to do without.

Okay, lets agree that necessity is mother of invention and laziness is father of necessity. Deal?

[Pasquale1234]

The crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy that's gives a good indication how much resources it takes up. If the crucible project alone is enough to bankrupt the galaxy there is no way they can afford an ark project.

If you're referring to this note from the Spectre Terminal:
 
First Irune Financial Report
This financial report is for top-level embassy access only. According to financial estimates from First Irune Investment Trusts, a division of Elkoss Combine, the Citadel races cannot sustain the cost of the war effort for more than one year. Although military spending has stimulated certain market sectors, shortages and rationing in other areas has depressed the financial system. Civilian discretionary spending has fallen except in entertainment areas like escapist vids or drinking. First Irune is borrowing heavily to provide funds for key functions across the Citadel, but if the war does not end within the next year, galactic financial collapse is inevitable.

... I'd suggest you read it again.

The reapers destroyed comm buoys, wrecked planetary communication networks, destroyed manufacturing hubs, harvested the workers, and basically drove everyone into survival mode. The Citadel took on vast numbers of refugees, which put a strain on its food and medical supplies. Leaving a lot of the (surviving) citizenry without homes, without jobs, without the means to acquire or manufacture additional supplies tends to put economies in collapse.

Note: That has nothing to do with the construction of the Crucible.
 

It was quite obvious though that the galaxy was throwing all of its resources into the crucible so for better or for worse they committed themselves to it.

Obvious to whom? The Crucible was a (supposedly) secret project; it's not like every man, woman, and child in the galaxy was put to work on it. You may have noticed that quite a few people on the Citadel were going about their business as usual, while plenty of refugees sat around doing nothing.

As for building materials, we have this gem from the Shadow Broker's Terminal:

Email from Professor T'Kisha to Dr. Oduol
I was calling every supply depot stationed around the Crucible to find enough pure platinum for the Crucible's primary trigger inlay. We barely had enough left to coat a coffeemaker.
An hour later, a ship pulled up with sixteen tons of platinum "courtesy of the Shadow Broker." Then it flew away to scavenge more materials for the project. The ship's captain emailed me after, saying the Broker "would stay in touch with our needs."

That's great, but I'm checking my computer for bugs.

Even though the Broker had lost some agents (and lost contact with others), she still seemed to manage to scavenge materials needed for the Crucible. Impact on galactic economy: practically zero.