216 réponses à ce sujet

[Jack Black]

Jamiam please don't talk about real life
We are discussing a game, a virtual world made by people
By the way "and the old drop out on Zone 5 and reenter with a level one character when there is a single enemy left so that you can insta-level the level one toon." That's awesome thanks surely will try next time

[JAMiAM]

Jamiam please don't talk about real life
We are discussing a game, a virtual world made by people

Playing in in this virtual world, is no less a real life activity as is walking in the park (don't feed the squirrels, exit at sunset), driving down the road (obey the speed limit, use your turn signals, don't cut off other drivers), working a job at a factory (insert tab A into slot A, not into slot B you buffoon!), cooking dinner (crack the eggs and dump only the innards into the frying pan, not the shells).  In other words, it's an activity that has rules (rigidly enforced or not), a set of outcomes based on the person's inputs, and expectations as toward what is acceptable behavior, or not.  Thus, I argue that it is as 'real life' as any activity you can think of.  That is not to argue the 'importance' of the activity, vis-a-vis, other activities, but it does allow appropriate analogies to be drawn with respect to whether expected behaviors of the participants are exploitive, or not, based on the 'rule sets' governing those activities and behaviors.  

[Jack Black]

No wait a bit
Who governs this virtual world?
You can say that real world is "governed" by God if you are believer but virtual is completely different

[Yallegro]

[Jack Black]

Really we are getting too serious on this topic
Why play a game at all if you are so vulnerable?
We play to have fun so just play with your friends who don't "cheat" and have fun

[ruggie]

Alls I wanted to know why it's an acceptable way to play when is cheating....

[Jay P]

Playing in in this virtual world, is no less a real life activity as is walking in the park (don't feed the squirrels, exit at sunset), driving down the road (obey the speed limit, use your turn signals, don't cut off other drivers), working a job at a factory (insert tab A into slot A, not into slot B you buffoon!), cooking dinner (crack the eggs and dump only the innards into the frying pan, not the shells). In other words, it's an activity that has rules (rigidly enforced or not), a set of outcomes based on the person's inputs, and expectations as toward what is acceptable behavior, or not. Thus, I argue that it is as 'real life' as any activity you can think of. That is not to argue the 'importance' of the activity, vis-a-vis, other activities, but it does allow appropriate analogies to be drawn with respect to whether expected behaviors of the participants are exploitive, or not, based on the 'rule sets' governing those activities and behaviors.

Using real life analogies is inappropriate because of the level of consequences to real life crimes versus cheating in a video game. The impact of those things in real life is not comparable to the impact of "cheating" in a video game, so the comparison is off-putting at best.

I gives off the impression that the person making the comparisons takes "cheating" in a video game as serious as something in real life that can lead to someone dying. And while I understand that is not how you meant it, it could be read as being implied.

Back on topic, do you use auto-attack cancel? Because, in my opinion, this is way more obviously an exploit than re-entry.

Did you use walking fortress and counter strike against bolters? Under your strict definition, this would be considered an exploit.

I'm just going to cut and paste one of my other posts, because I think it succinctly sums up my position as to the difference between the XP glitches lobbies and re-entry. (And I've never re-entered and probably never will since I only pug).

There's a couple different things being discussed in this thread.

1. Should the community ostracize players for leaving and rejoining as it's not "sporting?"

Sure, whatever. Communities always have different standards than the developers and social pressure can be a powerful thing.

I've never done it, and probably never will, because I just don't care enough.

2. What type of cheese is it?

In my mind, there is a clear demarcation between:
A) using intended game mechanics in unintended ways; and
B) doing something that game is actively stopping you from doing.

In the first case, it's the developers bad. They created the game mechanics, and creative uses of those mechanics isn't cheating. It's using your tools in a more efficient way than intended.

A good example of this was the counter strike/walking fortress use against bolters. Using game mechanics in a creative way.

In the second case, it's the players bad. Your doing sonething that game is not intending in any fashion. There is no mechanic intended to allow you to increase your exp gain per enemy.

But I agree with you, even if they wanted to change it, I hope this is very low in their priority list.

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

Alls I wanted to know why it's an acceptable way to play when is cheating....

Just PM one of the dev's and ask.

[sonofbarak]

I get it now since its an videos game anything's goes. But in real life you are perfect angels lol. You change persona when u get on the internet I get it.

[MagicalMaster]

I do not think it was intended by Bioware to rejoin with 3 lives and fresh potions.If that was the case we should have unlimited lives and potions.

If BioWare states that this is an intended use of the exploit, I will gladly go along with its abuse, even if I personally think that it is (would be) a crappy decision and poor game design.

I think the larger problem is -- how do you fix it? And another question would be -- what is the practical difference between leaving and allowing someone *else* to join? Either a random PUG in a public game or another person on your friends list in private.

"Hey Tom, Billy's used up his potions and his lives and we're only on wave 3 -- can you take his place? I know you have the achievement already, but you can peace out near the end of wave 5 and he can rejoin to get the achievement credit."

How do you tell the difference between that and

"Hey Tom, Billy has to leave, RL issues came up. Can you take his place?"

The only difference is if Billy rejoins at the end...so you'd have to do something like say "Unless you're in the match 100% of the game you get no achievement progress" -- which means someone legitimately disconnecting forces the whole group to restart (or that person won't get credit if he rejoins). Nor can someone legitimately join to replace someone who disconnected permanently or needed to run for other reasons (well, they could, they just wouldn't get credit).

[ruggie]

So if no one cares everyone cheated to get xp and challenges done why does everyone care about double xp its the same freakin thing... what a bunch of hypocrites.

[Proto]

So if no one cares everyone cheated to get xp and challenges done why does everyone care about double xp its the same freakin thing... what a bunch of hypocrites.

 

No, it's not the same thing. Bioware hasn't labeled this an exploit. Bioware hasn't threatened the ban hammer. 

 

Everyone is on the same playing field and able to do this without fear of repercussions. 

[ruggie]

What billy with tom is fine. This is about the noobs that if i die send me messages about double xp no skills ( I do die here and there usually when the others are faded or alchemist never throwing mines and hiding in stealth). Then proceed to say do hb if I'm so good (i do not use hb titles) and sends a score card of a 2 hr run... now if I pulled 3 faded players through hb in less than an hour that tells me the cheat was used.... its a common practice on the new consule no one did this on the ps3. Now why is using a cheat accepted to people who make accusations of cheating? It's the same thing...

[ruggie]

I bet if more people get on the ban wagon it will be considered an exploit....

[Proto]

The people that benefited the most from the XP exploit had an unfair advantage over those that chose to respect Bioware's stance.

 

Everyone can choose to leave and rejoin if they so please. Bioware hasn't said its breaking TOS. This is why its not the same thing. Not sure how else to explain it. 

 

It has been like this since launch. People even used to swap characters. I never did but apparently that was common practice. They have since removed the ability to do that. Maybe with this post they'll find a way to change it. Who knows. 

 

Leaving and joining seems to be more popular on PS4 and PC. I've only experienced it on Xbox a handful of times, and that was during the HB challenge week. 

[ruggie]

How can you get an unfair advantage in a co op game just wondering?

[ruggie]

Cheating is cheating just this is accepted because they wanted challenge points but couldn't get them legitimately... basically the same thing as xp lobbies...

[Jay P]

Cheating is cheating just this is accepted because they wanted challenge points but couldn't get them legitimately... basically the same thing as xp lobbies...

 

His point is that Bioware hasn't labeled it as cheating.

 

DAIMP is an imaginary world.  People bring their own sense of morality to it, but it doesn't change the fact that Bioware is the ultimate arbiter regarding what is and what is not cheating.

 

Bioware said that XP glitched lobbies was cheating.

Bioware has not said that reentry to HB is cheating.

 

That is the difference.

[ParthianShotX]

I bet if more people get on the ban wagon it will be considered an exploit....

 

do you want people banned for this?

[Proto]

How can you get an unfair advantage in a co op game just wondering?

 

By receiving 4X the intended XP using a method that Bioware labeled cheating and an exploit.

 

 

Cheating is cheating just this is accepted because they wanted challenge points but couldn't get them legitimately... basically the same thing as xp lobbies...

 

Read Jay P's post.

[xsvTOYZ]

wow Ruggie4.20 you are stuck on this   

you just want everyone to know you are good at this game and dont want anyone else to be where your at

guess what? we dont care and we will eventually be where you are at

well it seems BIO ware isnt interested either

get over it

there will be a new cheat tomorrow

deal with it

[ruggie]

Ehh just challenges reset and a fix to eliminate it from happening. After all its a co op game not pvp cheating to get stronger is not all that bad. This is coming from someone who grinds every day legitimately not a weekend warrior.

[ParthianShotX]

I think most of us grind daily.

[ruggie]

Toyz great job not getting my psn right. Anyway no its about how cheating different from cheating. If I wanted people to know how good I am I'd be posting videos. Sorry hb is meant for promoted players and some people cheated the game to get ahead. Why do you think I'm like a god? Or are you picking fights because you cheated...

[ruggie]

Then most of us should agree it's a cheat? Unless you used an exploit...