109 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

Both Nathaniel and Delilah must take after their grandfather.  At least, Delilah seems like a decent person from what little we see of her, and Nathaniel definitely is a decent guy.  He's rather like the older brother my Warden never knew.

 

 

Hmm.  I'd never considered that Nathaniel might be Loghain's son, but there is a certain similarity there.

 

I will also point out that Loghain could be black-haired carrying blond and that that hooked nose could be the result of a poorly healed break rather than genetics.  Also, I HIGHLY doubt that the Chantry would have sanctioned Cailan marrying his half-sister, royal blood or no.  (Although, if Cailan had survived Ostagar, he would have needed a face-saving excuse to set aside his marriage to Anora.  Just being infertile probably wouldn't cut it, even for a Theirin.)

 

Yeah, no, Maker please no, I don't even wanna go there. Feels too much like Jamie and Cersei for me. Bioware wouldn't be that crazy...would it?

[springacres]

Yeah, no, Maker please no, I don't even wanna go there. Feels too much like Jamie and Cersei for me. Bioware wouldn't be that crazy...would it?

Except that Jamie comes off as being smarter than Cailan was.  (At least in the first two books.)

[Lady Artifice]

I Can't understand why so many people say that Loghain "is the one who killed Cailan" (no, the Ogre did) or "the one who killed Duncan" (the darkspawn did), or "responsible of what Howe did to the Cousland" (no proof anywhere that Loghain asked him to do that, his fault would be maybe of NOT punishing Howe after this, but nothing says ANYWHERE that Loghain ordered Howe to attack the Cousland)

 

There is no proof that Loghain would have been able to save the life of Duncan and Cailan if he didn't leave at Ostagar. As a general, he thought the battle was lost, and I think he was sincere about that. Rushing to save Cailan would just have killed all his men, the entire army.

 

-snip-

 

That's accurate, if you only ertertain the most literal aspects of the situation. Those of us who consider Loghain responsible for the annihilation at Ostagar are looking at it in more of a conspiracy to commit murder, action through inaction angle. Loghain chose to employ ruthless calculus against the orders of his King.

 

The argument about whether his choice is justified can go on forever, pointlessly, but the fact that he made a choice is much less debatable. He walked away from the battlefield when the life of his sovereign hung in the balance. Justifiable, maybe, depending on whether you believe his explanation. It is however, in the legal sense, treason and regicide.

[Qun00]

Funny him they make you feel bad about killing him AFTER you've already made your decision.

"Daughters never grow up, Anora. They remain six years old, with pigtails and skinned knees forever."

Player: So... can I still change my mind? No? Okay.

(beheading cutscene follows)

[ModernAcademic]

Idk if Loghain fans have already read this amazing fanfic, which exists for quite some time, now. I, in particular, only found out about it yesterday. Therefore, I'm sharing it with my fellow Loghain fans, who happen to be searching for a good romance novel involving our taciturn general, but have never found one.

 

I must say this is the most mindblowing, complete romance story I've ever read between F!Cousland and Loghain:

 

Unshaken by the Darkness

http://archiveofouro...chapters/616055

[Vanalia]

Idk if Loghain fans have already read this amazing fanfic, which exists for quite some time, now. I, in particular, only found out about it yesterday. Therefore, I'm sharing it with my fellow Loghain fans, who happen to be searching for a good romance novel involving our taciturn general, but have never found one.

 

I must say this is the most mindblowing, complete romance story I've ever read between F!Cousland and Loghain:

 

Unshaken by the Darkness

http://archiveofouro...chapters/616055

 

Thanks for the link, I'll try to read it when I have some time!

 

 

Oh and I really like Nathaniel, he's nothing like his father. But yes, he physically looks like Loghain, but I think it's a coincidence, just like so many NPCs look a bit like Alistair, etc.

[straykat]

Thanks for the link, I'll try to read it when I have some time!

 

 

Oh and I really like Nathaniel, he's nothing like his father. But yes, he physically looks like Loghain, but I think it's a coincidence, just like so many NPCs look a but like Alistair, etc.

 

I thought it could be a Ferelden-ish thing too. Or some part of Ferelden. Default FemHawke is sort of the same.

 

They're like the Black Irish or something.

[Vanalia]

I think that Loghain is the one who has the bigger number of topics in this forum  people keep debating for years. That's also why I like our fallen hero.

 

When will I see his cameo in Awakening?

[Seraphim24]

Ah, Vanalia you have put quite a bit of effort into this I see!

 

Loghain is indeed the most interesting character in DA1! It felt following his story was a lot of trying to do good things, sometimes having evil things, it was I as I say.. interesting.

 

 

The #1 thing I'm not sure people get is that he really is a compassionate and sympathetic person, but it's buried in some ways at times beneath the struggles of war and his own experiences, as well as, his own actions of course at times (which are all quite brutal).

 

And yet, talking to him afterwards in the camp in the time I recruited him, I felt more empathy emanating than even with Alistair or Morrigan. 

 

And I also ask myself, what would Alistair or Morrigan done in that position? Would they have fled Ostagar as well? There are many unanswered questions...

 

Do not want to get into the debates or anything per se, on particular topics, but those parts I know to be true.

[Seraphim24]

Also, Ser Cauthrien

Spoiler

 

[Aren]

Once Loghain tried to kill my warden and he failed in doing so.

Once Loghain tried to save my warden and he succeeded in doing so.

Me as a player in my personal worldstate i will always remember him as the one who saved the warden with his sacrifice.

[Qun00]

I found this on Tumblr some time ago.



Subtitle: "When you betray the Grey Wardens juuuust right..."

[Seraphim24]

Loghain is really just the epitome of the "tragic" sort of character. He is thrust into a position as a consequence of a whole nation-wide crises (Orlais, Fereldan, Blight) and basically just panics.

 

The first move he does is possibly the most rational, he avoids the total destruction of Fereldan's army from an overwhelming force, then proceeds to make his most irrational decision of antagonizing the GWs, egged on by Howe.

 

Finally, he makes a sequence of kind of equally messed up but some on point decisions simultaneously, before kind of collapsing under the weight of it all at the Landsmeet.

 

His up and down trajectory is why I thought the most appropriate act was he sacrificed himself to avoid great demon in the final battle.

[ThomasBlaine]

Loghain is really just the epitome of the "tragic" sort of character. He is thrust into a position as a consequence of a whole nation-wide crises (Orlais, Fereldan, Blight) and basically just panics.

 

The first move he does is possibly the most rational, he avoids the total destruction of Fereldan's army from an overwhelming force, then proceeds to make his most irrational decision of antagonizing the GWs, egged on by Howe.

 

Finally, he makes a sequence of kind of equally messed up but some on point decisions simultaneously, before kind of collapsing under the weight of it all at the Landsmeet.

 

His up and down trajectory is why I thought the most appropriate act was he sacrificed himself to avoid great demon in the final battle.

 

I maintain that "antagonizing the GW" is his most rational action by far, seeing as there are none of them left in the country and he needs a scapegoat for the King's death. It's only afterwards he finds out that a few survived, and so far as he knows they have nothing to contribute to the crisis. The argument can also be made that from his perspective it really does look like the Wardens got Cailan killed.

 

The only thing he does that really crosses the line for me is the deal with the Tevinter mages, and that was most likely Howe's idea and influence as you say.

[Seraphim24]

I maintain that "antagonizing the GW" is his most rational action by far, seeing as there are none of them left in the country and he needs a scapegoat for the King's death. It's only afterwards he finds out that a few survived, and so far as he knows they have nothing to contribute to the crisis. The argument can also be made that from his perspective it really does look like the Wardens got Cailan killed.

 

The only thing he does that really crosses the line for me is the deal with the Tevinter mages, and that was most likely Howe's idea and influence as you say.

 

That's interesting, I haven't seen that idea floated across.

 

But I will agree in general that some of the later stuff is really quite bad.

[Qun00]

Loghain is really just the epitome of the "tragic" sort of character. He is thrust into a position as a consequence of a whole nation-wide crises (Orlais, Fereldan, Blight) and basically just panics.
 
The first move he does is possibly the most rational, he avoids the total destruction of Fereldan's army from an overwhelming force, then proceeds to make his most irrational decision of antagonizing the GWs, egged on by Howe.
 
Finally, he makes a sequence of kind of equally messed up but some on point decisions simultaneously, before kind of collapsing under the weight of it all at the Landsmeet.
 
His up and down trajectory is why I thought the most appropriate act was he sacrificed himself to avoid great demon in the final battle.

FereldEN. How do people still mispell it to this day? Have they not seen it codex texts? Subtitles?

[Seraphim24]

FereldEN. How do people still mispell it to this day? Have they not seen it codex texts? Subtitles?

 

Hm, oh, Ferelden.

[Qun00]

You know, I find Loghain easier to sympathise with than Anora. At least he does show a softer side with that line about daughters never growing up.

Anora never does show that there is a beating heart beneath the cold and calculating exterior.

[Seraphim24]

You know, I find Loghain easier to sympathise with than Anora. At least he does show a softer side with that line about daughters never growing up.

Anora never does show that there is a beating heart beneath the cold and calculating exterior.

 

I think I said as much in some other thread, Anora is exxtremely mean at times. I think my point was Anora in a situation similar to Loghain would of produced much worse results.

[ThomasBlaine]

You know, I find Loghain easier to sympathise with than Anora. At least he does show a softer side with that line about daughters never growing up.

Anora never does show that there is a beating heart beneath the cold and calculating exterior.

 

She loves her father in spite of his... miscalculations, and does everything she can to prevent his execution way past the point where she should have thrown him under the bus if political power was everything she wanted.

 

In lieu of tender and private moments where she bares her soul to you, knowing that she loves Loghain and that he loves her too is humanizing enough for me. Her having effectively ruled Ferelden for years, enduring marriage to Cailan and being willing to potentially endure marriage to Alistair as well definitely earns my respect. To be honest, I think she's awesome. Sure, not sticking up for you in front of Cauthrein is awkward. It's not like she doesn't have good reasons, though.

[Seraphim24]

She trusts her father, and does everything she can to prevent his execution way past the point where she should have thrown him under the bus if political power was everything she wanted.

 

In lieu of tender and private moments where she bares her soul to you, knowing that she loves Loghain and that he loves her too is humanizing enough for me. Her having effectively ruled Ferelden for years, enduring marriage to Cailan and being willing to potentially endure marriage to Alistair as well definitely earns my respect. To be honest, I think she's awesome. Sure, not sticking up for you in front of Cauthrein is awkward. It's not like she doesn't have good reasons, though.

 

Cauthrien was the character that interested me more in the grand scheme of things, to be honest.

[TagiDoll]

I'm pretty sure Loghain has become my most favoured DA:O character and I'm always on the look out for good fanart of him but I think there isn't that much compared to other characters. Will keep an eye on this thread to see if anyone posts any I haven't seen before

[straykat]

You know, I find Loghain easier to sympathise with than Anora. At least he does show a softer side with that line about daughters never growing up.

Anora never does show that there is a beating heart beneath the cold and calculating exterior.

 

Sure she does. Right at that very moment you're mentioning. She was begging for her father not to die and thought she'd get a compromise.

 

She's also sad if you do recruit him and he sacrificed himself. She ends up visiting his statue every day.

 

She also pities Cauthrien if you killed her.

 

Basically, this just comes down to Alistair. Alistair fans always do this. Even Gaider remarked on it. lol

[Illegitimus]

So that's plain stupid to accuse someone for the bad things someone else did, especially if Loghain took Howe as an ally AFTER the deeds.

 

Loghain needed Howe for politics, he didn't order or approve the Cousland attack and nothing says he was aware of it at that time. He is just responsible of not punishing Howe, but he needed him to reach a "greater goal" (protect Ferelden) so he couldn't afford loosing a powerful ally just for some lord accused of working with Orlais anyway.

 

I have never found it terribly plausible that Loghain took Howe as an ally after the slaughter of the Couslands.  I don't see anything that suggests that to be the case.  Howe is only a "powerful ally" because Loghain gives him a lot of power.  If Howe committed a massacre with no idea how he was going to get away with it, then he certainly isn't smart, nor is he going to be popular nor is he rich.  Heck Howe's whole motivation for all of his wicked deeds is that he wasn't the big deal he thought he should have been.   Me I think Howe presented evidence of Bryan Cousland's dubious dealings with Orlais before the bad stuff went down and won Loghain's trust with that demonstration of Ferelden loyalty.  Loghain's slow to change his mind once it's already set.  I can more easily believe him accepting that a Howe who he had already made common cause with "got carried away" when dealing with a traitor than that Howe would be in a good position to convince Loghain to put such faith in him after Howe had already treasonously murdered his friend, his friend's family, and a whole bunch of innocent people. 

[Aren]

 

Basically, this just comes down to Alistair. Alistair fans always do this. Even Gaider remarked on it. lol

For a person with no forgiveness in heart, living even worse punishment than death and that was my punishment for Alistair.

I loathe him and his related romance love ending which involve in most cases baby experimentations.