150 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodyTalon]

I sorta think the writters assumed once we saw that guy in full armor we would know it was a legit Qun invesion and if we had a loyal Qun Iron bull wouldn't bring him along, is about the only thing could figure..cause yeah he shows shows up at the end if not in the part.

And it was made clear he would betray from the start of the dlc if he was Qun loyal

[Mr.House]

I find it very...odd...that they wait until almost no other option remains to give Bull the signal. I know it is dramatic license and all, but I brought Bull with me the entire DLC, which means he had to kill a *terrible* amount of fellow Qunari to keep his cover when backstabbing me in the first level of the DLC would have potentially prevented their deaths.

That really doesn't make sense from the point of wanting the Inquisitor dead, no need to wait to give the kill order.

Seriously, just imagine their thoughts. "Wait! Hissrad, you are on our side!!!! We outnumber them three to one, why are you helping them???"

It's not really rare that a double agent kills or sabotages their own side to keep their cover. Where he betrays you is the perfect spot because even if YOU do survive, you have the dragon and qunari to deal with after.

[Arisugawa]

It's not really rare that a double agent kills or sabotages their own side to keep their cover. Where he betrays you is the perfect spot because even if YOU do survive, you have the dragon and qunari to deal with after.

As opposed to trying to kill you earlier and saving dozens of Qunari lives if you do, and allowing them to try in your place if you fail?

Seems like a terrible waste of life if you fail, with the justification that a dragon still remains. The Inquisition had killed 12 dragons at that point, and the Qun would know that. They wouldn't consider that a significant enough roadblock to gamble dozens of Qunari lives on.

[Mr.House]

Personally I didn't bring him with me so this issue is not there, but I simply see it as simply Bull following orders which if he's still part of the qun, he's a slave to orders now.

[TheMadHarridan]

What happens if Iron Bull and Dorian are in a relationship when Bull betrays you? What does Dorian say if he's in the party? Does Bull's dialogue change?

[sunnydxmen]

i say its good that iron bull betrayed you if you let the chargers die .what did you expect after letting his friends die .that probably deepen his resolved to take you down.

[Knight of Dane]

As I mentioned in a similar thread. "Sacrifice what you love for your duty" was the theme of sacking the chargers, you can't fault IB for living up to your Inquisitors own principle.

 

Regardless, others have mentioned that it is likely that he submitted to re educating or whatever it is called, which is why Cole find him empty. The Qun basically reset him so he could serve. I feel inclined to beleive this is a good explanation why he doesn't flinch at all.

[Ionastorm]

No one cares that if Bull knows about Solas, who we helped ALOT in his quest to destroy the world, he might just think, that it`s really a good choise to kill iquisitor, cause we are trying to stop Qunari from Protecting the world from Solas. No one? Well...yeah. 
And brainwash, well.... If i`ll kill my friends, for some higher mission i will need some brainwash too, cause what the point of their death, if i go all crazy and do not complete what they died for?

[Arisugawa]

No one cares that if Bull knows about Solas, who we helped ALOT in his quest to destroy the world, he might just think, that it`s really a good choise to kill iquisitor, cause we are trying to stop Qunari from Protecting the world from Solas. No one? Well...yeah. 
And brainwash, well.... If i`ll kill my friends, for some higher mission i will need some brainwash too, cause what the point of their death, if i go all crazy and do not complete what they died for?

 

Actually, I was going to write up a post later on this very topic. I'm not sure if I will - it's hard to justify absolutely smashing the structure of the southern continent apart in the hopes that a fully Qun-controlled continent might be able to stand up to Fen'Harel. But a valid argument can be made that all we did as the Inquisition was stop the Qunari from stopping Fen'Harel, and that could potentially have dire consequences later.

[celestialfury]

i say its good that iron bull betrayed you if you let the chargers die .what did you expect after letting his friends die .that probably deepen his resolved to take you down.

 

He betrays you if you simply didn't do his personal quest, too. That's what happened in my playthrough. He wouldn't give me the bloody quest for some reason (I didn't get the Wicked Grace cutscene either, I think clearing most of the game before What Pride had Wrought kinda broke it?) so I finished the game without doing it, Chargers still alive, him still Ben-Hassrath. 

 

I'm personally very happy with the outcome since I hate Iron Bull but didn't want the Chargers to die. 

[Saerise]

Go back to the cutscene when he's got the ashes of the Chargers. The conversation pretty much puts it all out there. He was getting soft and starting to go Tal-Vashoth, and when you decided to sacrifice them, he buried his grief and redoubled his focus on following the Qun. He numbed himself from everything else. 

 

In a way, we were the ones who betrayed him.

[sunnydxmen]

Go back to the cutscene when he's got the ashes of the Chargers. The conversation pretty much puts it all out there. He was getting soft and starting to go Tal-Vashoth, and when you decided to sacrifice them, he buried his grief and redoubled his focus on following the Qun. He numbed himself from everything else. 

 

In a way, we were the ones who betrayed him.

 Exactly we killed his friends what person who had there best friends killed would not want to kill that person who  did it or let it happen, as some form of punishment for them i know i would want sweet revenge.

[celestialfury]

 Exactly we killed his friends what person who had there best friends killed would not want to kill that person who  did it or let it happen, as some form of punishment for them i know i would want sweet revenge.

 

But he still betrays you even if they live. I think that shows his true motivation is his allegiance to the Qun, not what happens to the Chargers. 

[Asch Lavigne]

I really liked the twist with Bull.

 

The whole time, he was in my party cause of the Qunari, I could not believe he didn't know anything, especially when I was fighting Ben Hassrath. I knew there was something going on. But I thought maybe they cut him out of the loop cause he was too involved in the Inquisition.

[sunnydxmen]

Lets be real  for a second who did not see a admitted spy betrayal not coming a mile away was anyone really surprise.

[Ryzaki]

But he still betrays you even if they live. I think that shows his true motivation is his allegiance to the Qun, not what happens to the Chargers. 

 

If he's still in the Qun he goes back to Par. Chances are he submitted himself to reeducation because of his unwillingness to sacrifice his men.

[cipriharald]

Question for those many of with diversified playthroughs:

 

I already know that a Qun-loyal Bull will betray you on the final mission, and Charger-loyal Bull will not.

 

So....

 

1) What happens to a Qun-loyal bull if you don't bring him on the final mission?

 

2) What happens to a Qun-loyal and romanced Bull (is that possible?) Bull on the final mission, or if you don't bring him on the final mission.

 

 

Thanks for your answers!

i saved the chargers..but bull stil showed up (he wasn't in the party) said something like "nothig personal boss" and attacked..really did not expect that..

[Arisugawa]

i saved the chargers..but bull stil showed up (he wasn't in the party) said something like "nothig personal boss" and attacked..really did not expect that..

 

And for a lot of people, he did not. Or he was there with you, and refused to fight against you.

 

We still don't know if that is a bug, or if there is another criteria aside from saving the chargers that determines his loyalties when the chargers are still alive.

[Ryzaki]

I don't see how it can be approval because Bull's approval has to be pretty high in the first place to get his mission to begin with =/

[KumoriYami]

...is there nothing if Dorian is in a romance with Bull?

[Captmorgan72]

They werent acting on their own.

This. The mission was sanctioned by Par Vollen but if it failed they would deny sanctioning it. 

[Captmorgan72]

But he still betrays you even if they live. I think that shows his true motivation is his allegiance to the Qun, not what happens to the Chargers. 

No he doesn't. He states he is not Qunari anymore and remains loyal to you. 

[Boost32]

No he doesn't. He states he is not Qunari anymore and remains loyal to you.

He does if you don't do his quest and the Chargers are alive.

[TMJfin]

My Adaar romanced The Bull, but sacrificed the Chargers. I'm on the very beginning of the Trespasser and Bull doesn't even talk to me Just calls me kadan.

[Boost32]

My Adaar romanced The Bull, but sacrificed the Chargers. I'm on the very beginning of the Trespasser and Bull doesn't even talk to me Just calls me kadan.

As Scar would say "Be prepared".