150 réponses à ce sujet

[TMJfin]

I know what will happen and I'm prepared ;D Still would've liked to talk to him, feels little stupid that he talks about romance when traveling trough eluvians, but nothing at winter palace.

[phimseto]

And this is why I wished there was an option in "Mark of the Assassin" to kill Tallis and use that spy list to dismantle Qunari networks. :-)

[TeaLulu]

Hearing some people say they saved the Chargers and Bull still betrayed, I wonder if its a glitch or if the alternative qualifying factor is making the Chargers succeed?

 

In my playthrough I did all the Charger quests through Krem, and they were all on about how helpful the Chargers had been to the Inquisition. 

 

Even when we disbanded, the Chargers and Bull just kept fighting chaos and returning order to Thedas. 

[Mr.House]

And this is why I wished there was an option in "Mark of the Assassin" to kill Tallis and use that spy list to dismantle Qunari networks. :-)

#BlameHawke

[phimseto]

#BlameHawke

I blame Felicia Day. ;-) I suspect the BW folks didn't have it in their hearts to make her killable. :-D

[panamakira]

A Qun-loyal Bull will still betray you even if he was in a romance with you.

Dang. That's harsh but also Inqui's fault.

[Gabe]

I had Dorian and Bull in my party, who were in a relationship (never did Bull's quest on the first playthrough).  There was nothing different about the betrayal at the start (except he turned around and went straight for killing Dorian!!!) but after it was over, Dorian said something...I can't remember exactly what. Something like, "Kadan..." and something about being fooled. With some really sad wry laughter.

[Nashimura]

This was all planed, just listen to what she says. She says "Now, Hisrad!" Notice the word, now. This means the betrayal was already planed, all Bull was waiting for was the order. Bull lied to everyone, including the Inquisitor.

 

The fact that it was also disavowed also means it was sanctioned.

I think it was only planned in this DLC though, planned while Bull was back with the Qun... I think Bull was genuine in the main game, killing the chargers broke him... turned him into the usual qunari drone.  

[adorkable-panda]

It was oh so satisfying to hear him say 'No thanks maam" and I was like yassss because I'm a bull rider and my Lavellan was so happy his vhenan didn't betray him. 

 

To be honest, aside from the Staff of Archon which is widely considered the best staff although is now obselete compared to the newer dlc staves, I don't see how anyone could really choose to sacrifice a colorful cast like the chargers. I can never bring myself to do it. They're too likable and the elven qunari friend was kind of an ahole. Thank god for youtube to let me watch what would've happened. 

[Gervaise]

The way I see it is that so long as  Bull is still a member of the Qun he will betray you.     In my first run through I never got his approval up enough to trigger his personal quest (when I realised what the problem was I made sure I took him along on one dragon hunt just to be sure).     So even though the Chargers didn't die, if I use that play through then I assume he will still betray me.

 

I always felt the proposed Qunari alliance was really a set up by his bosses to test his loyalty.    He was becoming too much like the people he was meant to be spying on.   Since I dislike the Qun and liked the Chargers, most runs I save them and indirectly Bull as well it would seem.    I have one play through where I sacrifice them, plus that first one where I didn't get the quest, so I will have to experience the betrayal at some point.   Honestly don't know why anyone would be shocked by it.   I'm glad that the writers were consistent in their portrayal of the Qun and the mindless loyalty of its members.

 

As for the issue with why it took so long and they allowed so many soldiers to die before giving the order, I assume the leader didn't want to blow his cover too soon in case he discovered something useful.    Alternatively the plan may have originally been that other soldiers would kill the Inquisitor, allowing the Bull to return to the Winter Palace apparently distraught over their death and then carry through the next part of their plot for "peaceful" invasion.    With the Qun, the goal is everything.    Individuals can be sacrificed as they are just part of the whole.   A soldier's purpose is to serve the Qun, fighting and dying for it.    When you have an army of thousands, a few dozen is not that great a loss if it achieves your aim.

[Sui Causa]

If you do his personal quest and pick the Chargers over the Dreadnaught and Iron Bull still betrays you, then it is a glitch. There was problem with the way Trespasser was reading some of the save game choices apparently.

[Big I]

To be honest, aside from the Staff of Archon which is widely considered the best staff although is now obselete compared to the newer dlc staves, I don't see how anyone could really choose to sacrifice a colorful cast like the chargers. I can never bring myself to do it. They're too likable and the elven qunari friend was kind of an ahole. Thank god for youtube to let me watch what would've happened. 

 

1) On the war table you get the opportunity to work with Tallis to stop the Venatori from trying to burn Denerim to the ground, and then to eliminate the Venatori spy network. The alliance saves lives.

 

2) The Chargers are mercenaries, they risk their lives every day. They knew the risks going in.

 

3) There are, at most, a few dozen Chargers, and we only see six of them. A ship like the dreadnought will have a lot of people on board as it's crew, who will all die if the Venatori sink the ship.

[atamajakki]

I have to wonder: was Viddasala acting on behalf of the Qun, or was she a rogue agent?

Because I cherished my alliance with the Qunari. Killing Bull was a dream come true, but I'd hate to have that political relationship go up in smoke for no reason.

[vertigomez]

Go back to the cutscene when he's got the ashes of the Chargers. The conversation pretty much puts it all out there. He was getting soft and starting to go Tal-Vashoth, and when you decided to sacrifice them, he buried his grief and redoubled his focus on following the Qun. He numbed himself from everything else.

In a way, we were the ones who betrayed him.

RIGHT IN THE FEELS, UGH. Also, I concur. I'm never sacrificing that brilliant mind and big heart for the sake of an alliance.

For those of you who were wondering about how Dorian reacts if they're in a romance, here it is at 0:50.

Spoiler

[Super Drone]

F*ck the Qunari. I am so glad Bioware didn't make them some throw-away "not really Qunari" to hand-wave their involvement away. The Qun is the enemy of Thedas. If the Bull stays loyal to the Qun, then he is an enemy. 

[Rekkampum]

No. He got reeducated and brainwashed because the Inquisitor thought it was a good idea to ally with the Qun at the cost of Bull's only decent friends. That doesn't mean he didn't love the Inquisitor at all.

 

This becomes blatantly obvious if you don't leave him brainwashed.

 

There's even a codex that explains the horrors of reeducation. It's really quite terrible.

 

He didn't get re-educated. He didn't need to because he came to terms with who he was as a Qunari.

[Ryzaki]

He didn't get re-educated. He didn't need to because he came to terms with who he was as a Qunari.

 

Via reeducation that he willingly went into.

 

Just like Sten was.

 

If you honestly think the Qunari didn't do some form of reeducation on an operative who nearly went rogue then I have a bridge to sell you.

[atamajakki]

F*ck the Qunari. I am so glad Bioware didn't make them some throw-away "not really Qunari" to hand-wave their involvement away. The Qun is the enemy of Thedas. If the Bull stays loyal to the Qun, then he is an enemy.

Except for the part where there's a chance the Viddasala was a rogue agent, as implied by the Codex entry.

She slipped the leash, just like the Arishok did.

[Rekkampum]

Via reeducation that he willingly went into.

 

Just like Sten was.

 

If you honestly think the Qunari didn't do some form of reeducation on an operative who nearly went rogue then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

You're conjecturing, first off. Unless you can provide sources that confirm that he did in fact go to re-education after the threat with Corypheus was handled, I'm calling bs. And he didn't nearly go rogue. He had an identity crisis once during a single mission and then jumped back into shape. He proved that he was still Qunari in the face of other members of the Ben-Hassrath who thought he'd already forsaken the Qun, and he makes it a point to thank you for helping him remember his duty. Definitely not in need of any re-education.

[Boost32]

I have to wonder: was Viddasala acting on behalf of the Qun, or was she a rogue agent?
Because I cherished my alliance with the Qunari. Killing Bull was a dream come true, but I'd hate to have that political relationship go up in smoke for no reason.

She was acting on behalf of the Qun, that's why Hissrad betrayed you and several Qun's spies infiltrated on the Inquisition.
They are denying because they dont want to fight the south before they take Tevinter, specially because the "Dragon's Breath" operation failed.

[Ryzaki]

You're conjecturing, first off. Unless you can provide sources that confirm that he did in fact go to re-education after the threat with Corypheus was handled, I'm calling bs. And he didn't nearly go rogue. He had an identity crisis once during a single mission and then jumped back into shape. He proved that he was still Qunari in the face of other members of the Ben-Hassrath who thought he'd already forsaken the Qun, and he makes it a point to thank you for helping him remember his duty. Definitely not in need of any re-education.

 

*shrug* Right. They just leave an agent in native lands for 2 years and don't look down at his hesitation at all (despite you know. Qunari being all about harshly berating hesitation) along with the other orders he didn't follow. Yep. The Qunari just let that slide because they're cool like that.

[Rekkampum]

*shrug* Right. They just leave an agent in native lands for 2 years and don't look down at his hesitation at all (despite you know. Qunari being all about harshly berating hesitation) along with the other orders he didn't follow. Yep. The Qunari just let that slide because they're cool like that.

 

Still not seeing any sources from you. Those kinda do matter when making points like yours as though they're factual.

[atamajakki]

She was acting on behalf of the Qun, that's why Hissrad betrayed you and several Qun's spies infiltrated on the Inquisition.
They are denying because they dont want to fight the south before they take Tevinter, specially because the "Dragon's Breath" operation failed.

Bummer. I was best friends with Sten, I gave Isabela to the Arishok, and I saved the dreadnought.

Just once I'd appreciate the Qunari befriending me.

[Ryzaki]

Still not seeing any sources from you. Those kinda do matter when making points like yours as though they're factual.

 

You're right it's not a fact it's a theory. Now is there anything else you wish to say?

[Rekkampum]

You're right it's not a fact it's a theory. Now is there anything else you wish to say?

 

I enjoyed this conversation.

 

BOO YA!