150 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

Bummer. I was best friends with Sten, I gave Isabela to the Arishok, and I saved the dreadnought.
Just once I'd appreciate the Qunari befriending me.

They appreciated, but you are still a Bas and the Inquisitor's purpose ended when Corypheus died.

[Clint_johnston23]

Just had this scene, and the one with his broken body at the very end.  Sooooo sad!

[Sable Rhapsody]

They appreciated, but you are still a Bas and the Inquisitor's purpose ended when Corypheus died.

 

Agreed.  The qunari are never on your side as the PC.  They might respect you deeply.  They might even help you.  But the implacable purpose of the Qun always, ALWAYS comes first.

 

Part of why I like the qunari as antagonists.  They're people who are capable of feeling and thinking, but they have the same non-negotiable quality to their antagonism that the Reapers do.  That combination is really eerie and scary.

[NRieh]

Well, that was a real surprise. The thing is. In my PT I had never played the IB mission, and according to the Keep he is considered TV (and even mentions him saving the Chargers).  

Still, he betrays me. I'm not sure which flag is bugged here. Probably the 'never happened' variant had never been tested.

 

Also, I don't think it was a good idea gameplay-wise to take away a possible only war\tank. I don't see how can I finish the fight with assassin Inq, Sera&Dorian. I'd hate to reaload and change the party setup. It's extremely annoying and immersion-breaking. 

[Bizantura]

Agreed.  The qunari are never on your side as the PC.  They might respect you deeply.  They might even help you.  But the implacable purpose of the Qun always, ALWAYS comes first.

 

Part of why I like the qunari as antagonists.  They're people who are capable of feeling and thinking, but they have the same non-negotiable quality to their antagonism that the Reapers do.  That combination is really eerie and scary.

I also like the qunari but for totaly different reasons.  They make me think of real live humans torn asunder by conflicting feelings and never able to think for themselves let alone act upon "a feeling".  The poor sods can't take even a pee without the qun pointing them to the toilet.

 

Brilliant those qun elites, endless suply of faithful indoctrinated servants and cannon fodder at their fingertips to do their bidding.  Nothing left but biodrones, nothing there capable of respecting anything not even themselves.

[Loyal Tevinter]

I was shocked but then my rp mage personally enjoyed slaying Iron Bull. The fighting afterwards, however, was a bit tougher for me after that. >.>

[wright1978]

Very cool, didn't know that was an option. I saved the chargers because my character despises the Qun and any opportunity to damage them was too good to turn down.

[squirrely1]

So it has been confirmed it's a glitch if you don't do Bull's mission or you save the Chargers but still get the betrayal?  I got the betrayal on this PT only because I sacrificed the Chargers to get the different gameplay.   This is my Male Rogue PT and IB's betrayal hurt me more than any of the ending parts....more than the Solas betrayal.  I sort of expected something was up with Solas but when Bull turned on me I was like WHAT???       But in hindsight I am ok with it.  I think after he loses the Chargers he is not the same.  I am in the camp that he was re educated ....only because he said when we walked through that last eluvian...maybe we can get to the bottom of all this.  I mean my theory is he at that point may not have even been aware of what was going on...then when Viddasala said the command it was like he snapped into action.  It almost seemed as though he were a trained puppet at that point.  It hurt badly, however I have my Female Rogue up next to play and she saved the Chargers so it will be nice to see Bull stay loyal.  *fingers crossed*

[CoM Solaufein]

Nothing personal... bas? Betray and break her heart?

 

 

Nothing personal... Kadan.

[The_Real_Lee]

You know, I found the message disavowing the Viddasala in the Qunari's territory, So if the message came then it came from the disavowed Qunari, or the disavowed Qunari knew that they were being told that they were disavowed. Either way, it is a good way to preserve an alliance that they don't value.

[Ryzaki]

Well, that was a real surprise. The thing is. In my PT I had never played the IB mission, and according to the Keep he is considered TV (and even mentions him saving the Chargers).  

Still, he betrays me. I'm not sure which flag is bugged here. Probably the 'never happened' variant had never been tested.

 

Also, I don't think it was a good idea gameplay-wise to take away a possible only war\tank. I don't see how can I finish the fight with assassin Inq, Sera&Dorian. I'd hate to reaload and change the party setup. It's extremely annoying and immersion-breaking. 

 

Makes sense the actual trigger for his defection is probably in the post saved chargers mission on the roof when he asks you what is he supposed to do without the Qun. Since you never got that conversation he was either offered another chance (if Tal) or simply stayed the way he was (if still Qunari).

[Boost32]

You know, I found the message disavowing the Viddasala in the Qunari's territory, So if the message came then it came from the disavowed Qunari, or the disavowed Qunari knew that they were being told that they were disavowed. Either way, it is a good way to preserve an alliance that they don't value.

The message is a fluke, the Qun approved the operation and if they failed they didnt want it to implicante on them.
Dont be fooled by them, there is no peace with the Qun, or we exterminate them or Thedas will be subjugated.

[Mr.House]

The thing is this, the qunari disavowed the attack on Kirkwall, WHICH WAS LED BY THE ARISHOK. Qunari definition of disavowed means "it failed and we don't want a full out war while we lick our wounds" Just like how qunari don't understand how treaties work.

 

They are using qunari ranks, they call Bull by his rank. This is not a rogue group or tal vasoth, this is the real deal.

[Arisugawa]

The thing is this, the qunari disavowed the attack on Kirkwall, WHICH WAS LED BY THE ARISHOK. Qunari definition of disavowed means "it failed and we don't want a full out war while we lick our wounds" Just like how qunari don't understand how treaties work.

 

They are using qunari ranks, they call Bull by his rank. This is not a rogue group or tal vasoth, this is the real deal.

 

Agreed. 

 

Let's hope everyone in a position of power understands that, and views the Alliance with the requisite skepticism it deserves instead of believing the response from Par Vollen.

[Ryzaki]

The thing is this, the qunari disavowed the attack on Kirkwall, WHICH WAS LED BY THE ARISHOK. Qunari definition of disavowed means "it failed and we don't want a full out war while we lick our wounds" Just like how qunari don't understand how treaties work.

 

They are using qunari ranks, they call Bull by his rank. This is not a rogue group or tal vasoth, this is the real deal.

 

Yep the Qunari are massive liars and can't be trusted worth a damn. I'd trust a magister before I'd trust a Qunari.

[Sui Causa]

I really think that when the Qunari turn around and say WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY APPROVE THAT SRSLY GUYS NO HARM DONE RIGHT? we should be able to send Sera as ambassador to tell them where they can shove their alliance.

 

I really think she'd be the only one colorful enough to really drive the point home.

[NRieh]

Makes sense the actual trigger for his defection is probably in the post saved chargers mission on the roof when he asks you what is he supposed to do without the Qun. Since you never got that conversation he was either offered another chance (if Tal) or simply stayed the way he was (if still Qunari).

Possibly so, but then the Keep should make the worldstate "Chargers alive + IB in the Qun" possible and clear. I'm not questioning the betrayal per se (other than gameplay-wise, may be, the next combat had been really tough, happy there was a 'non-lethal' option for the dragon), but I'd love  to know how does it actually work. 

[NRieh]

 

o it has been confirmed it's a glitch if you don't do Bull's mission or you save the Chargers but still get the betrayal?

I can confirm that being friendly, but not doing his mission resulted with the betrayal, but I'm still not sure whether it's a glitch or not. 

[Ryzaki]

Possibly so, but then the Keep should make the worldstate "Chargers alive + IB in the Qun" possible and clear. I'm not questioning the betrayal per se (other than gameplay-wise, may be, the next combat had been really tough, happy there was a 'non-lethal' option for the dragon), but I'd love  to know how does it actually work. 

 

True it'd be nice for a confirmation.

[Darkstarr11]

Basically, the Qunari were playing the Inquisition from the start.  The Viddisala stated that they made their decision when the Breach occurred.  Bull shows up not long after.  If you side with the Chargers, two spies attack Bull.  It was a ploy, straight up.  Siding with the Qunari simply weakened the Inquisition (losing the Chargers) and helped the Qun.  Since we don't hear anything about an attack on Denerim, it looks like the attack only happens if the Chargers die.  If Denerim had burned, Teagan would have mentioned something.  Your capitol burning to the ground WOULD be noteworthy.  Even if it does, it would only support Fereldens claim that the Inquisition was bad news.  The note you find that the Qunari have in their fortress only supports the idea that the Qunari were going to screw you over.  The sadistic choice made during the quest WAS a test...Bull's loyalty to the Qun.  YES, they would lose a dreadnought, and it's crew, but then they would know where he stood.  They'd know NOT to include him in their plans and cut him off.  That way, their REAL goal would go unhindered.  Sacrificing a knight so that you could push your pawn forward to become a queen.  IF he sides with the Qun, he can help place agents in strategic positions that will help bring down the Inquisition when the time comes.  A QUN-loyal Bull is NOT on your side...he belongs to the Qun.  

 

It is REALLY scary how many groups were running spies inside the Inquisition though...and how sloppy the Qunari got.  Exactly HOW long did Solas know about their plans I wonder?  I have a hard time believing he just recently stumbled on to what they were doing...did he have Cole read Bull's mind and then make Cole forget?  

[MaxQuartiroli]

I like that for once they decided to follow the logic rather than the heart. This time there is no friendship/romance or hardening/softening that can prevent the unavoidable. If you don't remove Bull from the qun he will follow his own way. Period.

 

I have to wonder: was Viddasala acting on behalf of the Qun, or was she a rogue agent?

Because I cherished my alliance with the Qunari. Killing Bull was a dream come true, but I'd hate to have that political relationship go up in smoke for no reason.

 

In the ending slides they stated that the Qunari consider the alliance with the Inquisition still ongoing. They also sent an official request of help against Tevinter to Divine Victoria.

 

Part of why I like the qunari as antagonists.  They're people who are capable of feeling and thinking, but they have the same non-negotiable quality to their antagonism that the Reapers do.  That combination is really eerie and scary.

 

They are far worse.. at least reapers don't give you the illusion that you can be their friends/allies or that there's room for negotiation with them.

I think that if the writer's purpose was to show us how much of a threat they are, and perhaps push the players into antagonize them more than before, well, they really did a great job.

[tanuki]

Possibly so, but then the Keep should make the worldstate "Chargers alive + IB in the Qun" possible and clear. I'm not questioning the betrayal per se (other than gameplay-wise, may be, the next combat had been really tough, happy there was a 'non-lethal' option for the dragon), but I'd love  to know how does it actually work. 

Well, there is such a worldstate actually. It's "Didn't help Iron Bull decide" (i.e didn't make his quest) which automatically sets his loyalty slide to "Iron Bull is loyal to the Qun". So it's not a glitch if you didn't do his quest in the main game and Bull turned against you.

Besides, I don't think that the Trespasser gets data from the Keep, as technically as a DLC it is still the part of the main game.

[Kurogane335]

Well, all of this makes me want to not buy Trespasser. Killing tons of Qunari, lose Bull and all that for what ? To save an insane elf who deserve to be killed on sight ? I'm so upset that the Qun is made into something so atrocious, as if it hadn't some great qualities.

[Fearsome1]

So even if you have a high approval with Bull, if you don't save the Chargers, he betrays you?

 

Kinda BS, particularly since you learn that the Vidathari and that sect of Qunari were acting on their own. 

 

In my most recent Trespasser run, Bull was my friend and to my knowledge I traveled with him sufficiently; plus the Chargers were alive and I aided them in bringing in that dumb dragon skull. He betrayed me anyway! So I don't know how all of the mechanics on this work?

[Mr.House]

Well, all of this makes me want to not buy Trespasser. Killing tons of Qunari, lose Bull and all that for what ? To save an insane elf who deserve to be killed on sight ? I'm so upset that the Qun is made into something so atrocious, as if it hadn't some great qualities.

The Qun has always been atrocious.