The Qun has always been atrocious.
No. It was always far superior to all the other societies shown in Thedas. It offers an equal opportunity to everyone. Sure, it has some very strict tenets that semmes aberrants, but no more than the Chantrist or elvish dogma. At the very least, the Qun doesn't threaten the whole world with dangerous magics and powers which rend the earth. That's a plus.
No. It was always far superior to all the other societies shown in Thedas. It offers an equal opportunity to everyone. Sure, it has some very strict tenets that semmes aberrants, but no more than the Chantrist or elvish dogma. At the very least, the Qun doesn't threaten the whole world with dangerous magics and powers which rend the earth. That's a plus.
They attacked a major city killing a crap load of innocent people and started to forcibly make people convert the Qun, if they did nor ojin they killed them.
Their plan in Tresspasser was to kill all heads of state then convert the south. How is that "atrocious" to you? Converting everyone is what they have been doing since DAO.
And no, it's only a equal opportunity to non-mages.
They attacked a major city killing a crap load of innocent people and started to forcibly make people convert the Qun, if they did nor ojin they killed them.
Their plan in Tresspasser was to kill all heads of state then convert the south. How is that "atrocious" to you? That's what they have been doing since DAO, that's their goal.
And no, it's only a equal opportunity to non-mages.
They attacked a City after years of provocations, veiled threats and a long wait trying to get back the tome of Koslun. That's actually a lot of patience here, a lot more than most humans have shown us so far.
Their plan in Trespasser, while brutal, is not so different from what the South would do if it could. Plus, it would lead to the end of wars between countries which have been at each other throats every few decades. And killing some few peoples to ensure that the resistance would be weakened is a good strategy. Isn't it better than what the humans did at the end of the New Exalted Marches, when they killed thousands of converts instead of trying to build a more inclusive society, and yet try to pretend to be more pure and correct in their ways than the Qunari.
As for the mages in the Qun... so what ? Do you think that the Saarebas aren't at least proud in doing their duty for the Qun, despite how they are treated ? Do people like Vivienne or Solas truly deserve to rule over the others simply because they can unleash fireballs at their whim ? The life of a Saarebas is atrocious, but isn't better for the whole society than to suppress mages in towers and then have to kill the whole population apt to use magic in a country when something goes wrong ?
The Qun is far from perfect, but out of every society shown so far in Thedas, it seems far better in all the possible ways.
As for the mages in the Qun... so what ? Do you think that the Saarebas aren't at least proud in doing their duty for the Qun, despite how they are treated?
That's where Tevinter could learn a few tips from the Qun. Enslavement is so much easier when you can convince people it's for their own good (Saarebas), or when you simply remove any capacity to think otherwise (Viddath-bas).
No. It was always far superior to all the other societies shown in Thedas. It offers an equal opportunity to everyone.
It does no such thing. It assigns you a role early in life and never alters that role unless you prove a failure
It does no such thing. It assigns you a role early in life and never alters that role unless you prove a failure
you can get a promotion, just look at Sten who is now the Arishok.
you can get a promotion, just look at Sten who is now the Arishok.
And the Iron Bull. He wasn't always Hissrad. It seems clear that when you end displaying qualities which would befit another position in the society, you get to have that position, after careful screening, probably. That's why converts can reach high positions in the Qun and could alkso expect to become Ariqun, Arigena or Arishok. It seems that the Qun assign to its people some broad place in the world (warrior, merchant, priest) from where there is no escape, but that in those vast categories, one can go up (and probably down).
Well, there is such a worldstate actually. It's "Didn't help Iron Bull decide" (i.e didn't make his quest) which automatically sets his loyalty slide to "Iron Bull is loyal to the Qun". So it's not a glitch if you didn't do his quest in the main game and Bull turned against you.
Besides, I don't think that the Trespasser gets data from the Keep, as technically as a DLC it is still the part of the main game.
So now it finally makes sense! Thanks so much!
It was the Keep that was misleading.
I'm not sure whether the first tile ('never helped') had been there from the start, but for some reasons on my finishing the main game I ended with 'saved the chargers'+ 'TV' combo. I think I had even reported that somewhere in the Keep section as a bug, but I thought that it was really representing my current in-game flags. Now I logged back to check. That first tile is indeed mutually-exclusive with 'Tal Vashoth' tile, I've changed it manually and I've got the correct traitorous Qun-Bull. 
Ps: I might be a slow one, but it took some time to realize the genius trick with 'Boss\Bas', which sound almost like complete homonyms. Calling the Inq 'boss' all the time throughout the game suddenly has a very special.... flavor. 
Well done (if intentional)!
WTF? Arguing FOR the Qunari like it's a real thing and not at all terrible? Good Lord, what is it with some gamers? Reminds me of when people back when here used to morally argue FOR Cerberus. Lol, after ME3, those folk seemed to disappear.
Edit: I think those people actually turned into the same people who then started arguing in favor of real life Synthesis. Batshit crazy.
WTF? Arguing FOR the Qunari like it's a real thing and not at all terrible? Good Lord, what is it with some gamers? Reminds me of when people back when here used to morally argue FOR Cerberus. Lol, after ME3, those folk seemed to disappear.
Edit: I think those people actually turned into the same people who then started arguing in favor of real life Synthesis. Batshit crazy.
I fail to see how Cerberus, a racist organization wanting to enslave everyone who wasn't willing to follow their ideology and was openly racist, can be compared to the Qunari, for whom race actually doesn't matter. I've always felt that the hatred toward the Qun displayed in forums was the basic reaction of Right-winger who saw the Qun as a form of Marxism (which it isn't, at all).
I fail to see how Cerberus, a racist organization wanting to enslave everyone who wasn't willing to follow their ideology and was openly racist, can be compared to the Qunari, for whom race actually doesn't matter. I've always felt that the hatred toward the Qun displayed in forums was the basic reaction of Right-winger who saw the Qun as a form of Marxism (which it isn't, at all).
Or maybe it is hated because the Qun is a highly aggressive quasi-religious philosophy that aims to conquer the whole world to show them "the error of their ways", indoctrinates it's followers, abhors things as individuality and freedom of choice, violently supresses or "reeducates" dissenters and lobotomizes those who resist.
Or maybe it is hated because the Qun is a highly aggressive quasi-religious philosophy that aims to conquer the whole world to show them "the error of their ways", indoctrinates it's followers, abhors things as individuality and freedom of choice, violently supresses or "reeducates" dissenters and lobotomizes those who resist.
And how is it different from the Chantry, Tevinter or the Elves ?
And how is it different from the Chantry, Tevinter or the Elves ?
A lot of ways.
They aren't nearly as efficient with the lobotomies, for example.
A lot of ways.
They aren't nearly as efficient with the lobotomies, for example.
The cult of the Maker in the South and the ingrained belief that the Mages are superior to other humans in Tevinter seems to be just as much ingrained as the Qun among its adept.
I think Bull was a spy all along. Solas tells you that the Qunari planned this long ago. I think by befriending/romancing him, and saving his men, you changed him and saved him from doing his intended mission. He called the assassin attempt a formality, but I think they were trying to eliminate him in fear he'd reveal what he knew to the Inquisitor.
If you let the Charges die, it breaks him and he probably ended up re-educated and sent back to you to complete his original mission.
When Bull approaches you about the Qunari alliance, if you tell him that you do not trust the Qunari - he approves. I always thought that was a bit odd but now it makes sense.
The cult of the Maker in the South and the ingrained belief that the Mages are superior to other humans in Tevinter seems to be just as much ingrained as the Qun among its adept.
RIGHT AFTER his mission where you reinforce his Qun beliefs (basically giving him additional conditioning for erasure of self), you ask him if he's still the Iron Bull and he says yes because the Iron Bull “is a fun role to play." If you didn't hear what he was telling you....
A lot of ways.
They aren't nearly as efficient with the lobotomies, for example.
Tranquil are always useful for something.
I know the Iron Bull is a tough SoB but.... did he really think he was going to take you down? Poor Bull.
I know the Iron Bull is a tough SoB but.... did he really think he was going to take you down? Poor Bull.
Bull can give you a rough time if he has the best gear for a melee dps and you bring him with you.
When Bull approaches you about the Qunari alliance, if you tell him that you do not trust the Qunari - he approves. I always thought that was a bit odd but now it makes sense.
RIGHT AFTER his mission where you reinforce his Qun beliefs (basically giving him additional conditioning for erasure of self), you ask him if he's still the Iron Bull and he says yes because the Iron Bull “is a fun role to play." If you didn't hear what he was telling you....
It's also just more proof that yes, this was sanctioned, the Qunari are just liars, nothing new.
It's also just more proof that yes, this was sanctioned, the Qunari are just liars, nothing new.
Sorry, just to clarify- you mean 'cause Bull says the Viddasala asked him to step in, that means it was an officially sanctioned operation?
Why would Bull some who despises Tal Vashoth help a rogue or Tal Vashoth? Him not just being there but saying "good thing you left me behind" is proof this was sanctioned. He would not help let along get there before the inquisitor and wait if this was not planned.
Why would Bull some who despises Tal Vashoth help a rogue or Tal Vashoth? Him not just being there but saying "good thing you left me behind" is proof this was sanctioned. He would not help let along get there before the inquisitor and wait if this was not planned.
Retour en haut