What!? oh, hell, I think would be better a veteran than the whiny brat they gave us, at least he wouldn't turn on me for trying to use Loghain as a decoy, why they can't put a veteran Warden as a companion? I thought Blackwall would be, but they changed him to an Orlesian soldier in the end.
Alistair being Fiona's child doesnt make any sense, Loghain says Rowan was alive when Alistair was conceived, yet they retconned it.
Yeah...that's part of the "old" Alistair that Bioware mistakenly kept when Origin finally released (remember, Origins had an overly long development time). I can see "hiding" the bastard still occuring but the reasons given in game - to protect Cailan claim to the throne and to protect Rowan's memory don't work with the Alistair we got, but only with the original Alistair.
The rewrite of it being Fiona's wish to keep alistair clear of the politicis of court at least make sense...
Can't read the whole thread because I'm still only to the first round of the meeting, but I thought Teagan's arguments were nonsense.
Caer Bronach was seized by bandits and the Inquisition annihilated them, took back the keep, and built it up. That was a service to Ferelden. Giving the keep back would be understandable and I would have liked the option to give it back, but for Teagan to then jump to baseless conclusions like all this indicating some kind of invasion, it's ridiculous. He draws an erroneous parallel to the Grey Wardens, when in fact it was Sophia Dryden (a relative of the Theirins) who attempted a coup, not an invasion. She was a native of Ferelden, and she was fighting a tyrant. The Grey Wardens officially severed all ties with her. And then he brings up the current alliance with the Grey Wardens as some kind of negative point.
Is Teagan forgetting that both the Hero of Ferelden and Alistair are Grey Wardens, and that either of them could possibly be king, or if female the Hero could be queen? Is he also forgetting that the Grey Wardens were granted Amaranthine? I mean, these accusations defy even Loghain's level of paranoia.
And then he refers to Gaspard ruing Orlais, when my worldstate had the three-way deadlock.
Normal militaries would understand such things on a crisis, even if disapprove the choice itself. It is normal and understandable he argues the choice, not so much dumping everything you can have done for him or quitting from the Warders, if he wouldn't knew the kind of bad deal a Blight is, then I would understand, but he knows and yet he quits, not to face the Archdemon on another place but to let Oghren as a noob on living drunk.
Not really, if we needed more Wardens that badly to throw at the Archdemon, which is essentially the only reason to recruit Loghain (it's not his generaling skills or his inspirational value at that point) we could have pretty much conscripted anyone else in Denerim. It's not like Loghain was the only remotely capable fighter in an entire city, especially at a Landsmeet attended by recently battle tested nobles and their entourages.
No, I love them!! Bwahaha what a funny misunderstanding!
No I meant, I'd have been sad to see them in DAI b/c they'd probably end up ugly like Teagan... and I love them too much for that ;_;
I'll just pretend DA2 Zevran never happened....
Sorry, I should learn to read properly 
I don't know how I got that so wrong. I am glad for your sake they didn''t get the mistreatment Tegan did!
Can't read the whole thread because I'm still only to the first round of the meeting, but I thought Teagan's arguments were nonsense.
Teagan's concern with the Inquisition being Orlesian is the same concern countries have with the UN being another arm of American politics.
The Un exists under the pretense of being a peacekeeping organisation, with worldwide range. But in reality, it enforces an American agenda for the world.
This is why Teagan is so worried that Orlais will "gently steer" the Inquisition. If the Empire succeeds at controlling it, the Inquisition will stretch its long arm over Southern Thedas, invading countries with its numerous forces, spying courts all over the place and forging alliances that can prove deadly to independent nations such as Ferelden.
This is the nightmare politicians like Teagan wish to avoid. This is why he insists the Inquisition must either be disbanded or reduce its forces, so as not to pose a future threat to the sovereignity of States.
Yep, Bioware makes games that involve Geopolitics and International Relations.
Thats exactly what Alistair is.Alistair is not a whiny brat. No really, I love Alistair, he's the only reasonsable LI in DAO. I mean, he doesn't betray you. You betray him and whine about how childish he sounds when your the one that decided to keep Loghian alive in the first place. If you actually listen to him, he does have a sense of honor, and tries to what's right. He's also my Wardens moral compass, I suppose. I'm really bias, becuase I'm a hardcore Alistair fan that always kills Loghian so that he stays with me.
The nobles have a lot to lose, none of them would be pleased by hearing those little details the Wardens often forget to tell the conscripts, and the darkspawn's blood doesn't come from nowhere, Loghain was screwed anyway, he didn't objected when Anora said he could die and he was too old to be concerned of having his lifespan considerably reduced.Not really, if we needed more Wardens that badly to throw at the Archdemon, which is essentially the only reason to recruit Loghain (it's not his generaling skills or his inspirational value at that point) we could have pretty much conscripted anyone else in Denerim. It's not like Loghain was the only remotely capable fighter in an entire city, especially at a Landsmeet attended by recently battle tested nobles and their entourages.
The nobles have a lot to lose, none of them would be pleased by hearing those little details the Wardens often forget to tell the conscripts, and the darkspawn's blood doesn't come from nowhere, Loghain was screwed anyway, he didn't objected when Anora said he could die and he was too old to be concerned of having his lifespan considerably reduced.
Poppycock. At that point and time, everyone knew it was a full blight and the Archdemon is beating down Ferelden's door. You could have probably conscripted anyone present, including Anora for the lulz, with out much back talk on the matter. As for darkspawn blood not coming out of nowhere, the argument equally applies to Loghain's initiation, you have enough for that, you certainly have enough for someone else instead.
Alistair's gripe is perfectly legitimate. After everything Loghain did seeing him dead is a more than reasonable expectation.
Why? The Warden never promised he/she would kill Loghain.Alistair's gripe is perfectly legitimate. After everything Loghain did seeing him dead is a more than reasonable expectation.
Why? The Warden never promised he/she would kill Loghain.
Making him a Warden wasn't in the cards until the very last minute, up until Riordan suggests it, the operating assumption is that Loghain will have to be deposed and killed or locked up. The Warden didn't need to promise it, it was pretty much the only option on the table.
I remember my Warden saying to his Wife to be, that he would let Loghain live and before Riordan tell the Warden about making him one, you can accept Loghain's surrender.Making him a Warden wasn't in the cards until the very last minute, up until Riordan suggests it, the operating assumption is that Loghain will have to be deposed and killed or locked up. The Warden didn't need to promise it, it was pretty much the only option on the table.
I remember my Warden saying to his Wife to be, that he would let Loghain live and before Riordan tell the Warden about making him one, you can accept Loghain's surrender.
So killing him wasnt the only option.
...or locked up. I said that too. There was no way Loghain even if he lived was getting off willy-nilly after all he had done.
I agree, still being a Warden is the worse punishment someone can suffer....or locked up. I said that too. There was no way Loghain even if he lived was getting off willy-nilly after all he had done.
1. I agree, still being a Warden is the worse punishment someone can suffer.
2. To me, Loghain paid for his crime.
1) Depends on who you ask. For the CE, Castless and Noble Dwarf origins it is pretty much a get out of jail free card. Same for the Mage origin if you were dumb enough to support Jowan.
2) Iffy on that, his specific case it's a chance to salvage his legacy and to be still remembered as a hero in the end. I wouldn't necessarily term it as paying for crimes, given it's his best shot at redemption.
1) its a jail free card because they didnt know the cost, being a warden is something that I would never wish on someone. Every night having nightmares, becoming sterille, facing everyday Darkspawn and knowing that one day you have to go to a suicide mission to suffer a painful death is horrible.1) Depends on who you ask. For the CE, Castless and Noble Dwarf origins it is pretty much a get out of jail free card. Same for the Mage origin if you were dumb enough to support Jowan.
2) Iffy on that, his specific case it's a chance to salvage his legacy and to be still remembered as a hero in the end. I wouldn't necessarily term it as paying for crimes, given it's his best shot at redemption.
Loghain's punishment was poetic justice after all, he was a traitor who despised Grey Wardens and Orlesians that ended as a betrayed Orlesian Grey Warden, I think I couldn't ask for a better punishment than that... pitty I couldn't get something similar for Howe or Alistair.1) Depends on who you ask. For the CE, Castless and Noble Dwarf origins it is pretty much a get out of jail free card. Same for the Mage origin if you were dumb enough to support Jowan.
2) Iffy on that, his specific case it's a chance to salvage his legacy and to be still remembered as a hero in the end. I wouldn't necessarily term it as paying for crimes, given it's his best shot at redemption.
Thats exactly what Alistair is.
I never said to him that I would kill Loghain and never said I would support him to be king. Yet after the Landsmeet he is all "give me the crown so I can kill him".
I smiled when Anora called his executing, I didn't even tried to save him.
Not really, if we needed more Wardens that badly to throw at the Archdemon, which is essentially the only reason to recruit Loghain (it's not his generaling skills or his inspirational value at that point) we could have pretty much conscripted anyone else in Denerim. It's not like Loghain was the only remotely capable fighter in an entire city, especially at a Landsmeet attended by recently battle tested nobles and their entourages.
THIS
During that scene, I wanted to recruit CAUTHRIEN. You've seen how much of a fighter she was AND you know she can be reasonable and given that you spare Loghain's life, she would've been the frist to offer herself as a potential Warden....
I'm not adverse yo keeping Loghain alive but making him a warden? WHY?
From what i recall grey wardens didn't saved his village ,family and country only HoF did.
The Hero of Ferelden, who is a Warden.
Who also travels with another Warden.
The Hero of Ferelden, who is a Warden.
Who also travels with another Warden.
And? Avoiding fact HoF was fresh recruit s/he acted on his own and without any support from order. Helping redcliff (as pretty everything HoF did during origins) wasn't organized action of grey warden order only individual kindness of guy/girl that happened to be grey warden (and even that depends on if the warden cared about order in first place)
And? Avoiding fact HoF was fresh recruit s/he acted on his own and without any support from order. Helping redcliff (as pretty everything HoF did during origins) wasn't organized action of grey warden order only individual kindness of guy/girl that happened to be grey warden (and even that depends on if the warden cared about order in first place)
And.... The Hero and Alistair are both Wardens, acting on the Warden treaties specifically drafted by the Wardens in the event of a Blight, which requires a Warden to finish.
See where I'm going with this?
And.... The Hero and Alistair are both Wardens, acting on the Warden treaties specifically drafted by the Wardens in the event of a Blight, which requires a Warden to finish.
See where I'm going with this?
Wardens that acted on their own, so pretty much they were 2 individuals that on their own stoped blight without any support from grey warden order. That they used treaties is as good argument that i used badge to further my goals and by that police was involved.
2 individuals members of organisation acting on their own don't represent entire organization , once again to use kind stormtrooper example that stormtrooper was kind and helped you out of their own will doesn't mean galactic empire is nor that means it was galactic empire contribution...
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