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[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I and I think letting the Inquisition get talked down to by a pisspot nation like that is insulting

If Cyril and Victoria are willing to be seen in the same room as Teagan, how much of a pisspot can his country be?

[Master Warder Z_]

If Cyril and Victoria are willing to be seen in the same room as Teagan, how much of a pisspot can his country be?

Look at a list of countries that have hosted the Olympics

.-.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Look at a list of countries that have hosted the Olympics

.-.

There seems to be a tendency for them not to be Third World.

[Andromelek]

If Cyril and Victoria are willing to be seen in the same room as Teagan, how much of a pisspot can his country be?

None of them has reason to be upset to be in the same room that a Fereldan, Cyril's mother was friend of a noblewoman from Kirkwall (that is on a lesser category than Ferelden) and his father was a quite competent politician, while one of the Victorias is a Fereldan who was also friend of Teagan, other is a righteous woman that has showed to be fair on her assessments and the third one.... well... she puts on the category of barbarians whoever doesn't dress with Orlesian fashion but I don't think she would show any kind of racism when it comes to politic.

About Warder's affirmation, yes, among the important countries Ferelden is a shame; Qunari have the best ships and explosives, Tevinter has the best mages, Nevarra has the best Dragon Hunters, Antiva has the best assassins, Orlais has the best politicians, academics, and (at least for now) the best army, Orzammar has the best smiths and in my opinion best technology, then we have Ferelden that has... the best dogs, honestly, I do like Mabaris, but they seem useless compared to the others' stuff.

[dragonflight288]

None of them has reason to be upset to be in the same room that a Fereldan, Cyril's mother was friend of a noblewoman from Kirkwall (that is on a lesser category than Ferelden) and his father was a quite competent politician, while one of the Victorias is a Fereldan who was also friend of Teagan, other is a righteous woman that has showed to be fair on her assessments and the third one.... well... she puts on the category of barbarians whoever doesn't dress with Orlesian fashion but I don't think she would show any kind of racism when it comes to politic.

About Warder's affirmation, yes, among the important countries Ferelden is a shame; Qunari have the best ships and explosives, Tevinter has the best mages, Nevarra has the best Dragon Hunters, Antiva has the best assassins, Orlais has the best politicians, academics, and (at least for now) the best army, Orzammar has the best smiths and in my opinion best technology, then we have Ferelden that has... the best dogs, honestly, I do like Mabaris, but they seem useless compared to the others' stuff.

 

And a bunch of dogs and farmers managed to beat Orlais's military.

 

With the convenient timing of a high dragon going on a rampage in Orlais, certainly, but Loghain and a whole bunch of farmers managed to drive Orlais out of Ferelden. 

 

Got to give the dog lords credit where credit is due. They may not be the most united nation, the wealthiest or the most important, but they certainly have the most stubborn and obstinate people you'll meet, as well as being the only nation that doesn't have supreme executive power at the head of state. Their power is derived from the masses of banns, freeholders and merchants not some aquatic Lake Calanhad ceremony. 

 

[Master Warder Z_]

There seems to be a tendency for them not to be Third World.

Holland, Belgium, Mexico, Canada.

Would you consider them world players?

Note the location of the Council meetings.

Orlais.

[Elfyoth]

Teagan's argument is utterly ridiculous.  "We were invaded centuries ago by the Grey Wardens, and we repelled them. Now the Inquisition is near us with Grey Wardens, unacceptable!"

 

Let's take into account the fact that

1: Grey Wardens have been stationed in Ferelden FOR centuries

2: Ferelden is 15ish years out of a blight, prevented by a Grey Warden.

3: A Grey Warden personally saved his life, and perhaps that of his wife and son above and far beyond the call of duty.

4: Ferelden's ruler may or may not be a Grey Warden, even perhaps the Hero.

5: The Hero at the very least rules an arling.

 

Him using Grey Wardens as an attack against the Inquisition is perhaps the poorest writing I've seen from Bioware in the game.

The wardens were exiled by the Fereldan monarch centeruies ago. But Maric brought them back. 

 

Still, he sounds like an ungrateful little ****, thougth I cannont judge him in Trespasser for I have not played it yet XD 

[dragonflight288]

The wardens were exiled by the Fereldan monarch centeruies ago. But Maric brought them back. 

 

Still, he sounds like an ungrateful little ****, thougth I cannont judge him in Trespasser for I have not played it yet XD 

 

He starts out quite reasonable, but over the course of the DLC we get the Loghain treatment from him. 

 

By that I mean he sees us and the Inquisition as no better than Loghain and us seizing power, and attacks us the same way he attacks Loghain, and like Loghain, a little thing like needing to verify the facts before speaking out doesn't stop him. 

[Gervaise]

Using the Grey Wardens as an example was ridiculous, particularly since in Awakening the monarch actually invited the Warden's into Vigil's Keep in order that they could play a political role in the region.   Warden HQ acknowledged it was unprecedented and that they wanted to make a success of it; which at least on all my play throughs, they did.   Teagan's speech was so bad because you'd think the 5th Blight never happened.     Sophie Dryden was ancient history that was no longer relevant considering recent events.

 

It should also be remembered that in addition to helping the refugees in the Hinterlands and clearing out the bandits from Caer Bronach, among our various war table missions was a request from the monarch to deal with Venatori spies in the royal palace, which we did.    Apart from one noble who wanted us to chase refugees out from his region, where I did the opposite, so far as I can remember, every action in Ferelden was a helpful and positive one.    The only other thing you could hold against us was that if you did the Templar path, we were supported by a whole host of Orlesian nobles on Ferelden soil, something that I never really understood.   Last time I looked, Ferelden nobles were also followers of the Chantry and so could equally appeal to the Templar's sense of duty.

 

I felt that to make the Ferelden objections carry any weight there should have been some instance or record of Ferelden asking us to return Caer Bronach to them and the Inquisition refusing to do so.   Or the Inquisition taking tithes and taxes from the area that we were not entitled to.    The fact was, as the Inquisitor pointed out, there was no one doing anything about the situation in Crestwood, even though Teagan himself had been given plenty of opportunity to do so before we got there.   It was the nobles of Ferelden neglecting their duty towards the area around Crestwood who created the situation.    Without the intervention of the Inquisition the village would likely be overrun by undead and the area an unproductive wasteland. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Using the Grey Wardens as an example was ridiculous, particularly since in Awakening the monarch actually invited the Warden's into Vigil's Keep in order that they could play a political role in the region.   Warden HQ acknowledged it was unprecedented and that they wanted to make a success of it; which at least on all my play throughs, they did.   Teagan's speech was so bad because you'd think the 5th Blight never happened.     Sophie Dryden was ancient history that was no longer relevant considering recent events.

 

It should also be remembered that in addition to helping the refugees in the Hinterlands and clearing out the bandits from Caer Bronach, among our various war table missions was a request from the monarch to deal with Venatori spies in the royal palace, which we did.    Apart from one noble who wanted us to chase refugees out from his region, where I did the opposite, so far as I can remember, every action in Ferelden was a helpful and positive one.    The only other thing you could hold against us was that if you did the Templar path, we were supported by a whole host of Orlesian nobles on Ferelden soil, something that I never really understood.   Last time I looked, Ferelden nobles were also followers of the Chantry and so could equally appeal to the Templar's sense of duty.

 

I felt that to make the Ferelden objections carry any weight there should have been some instance or record of Ferelden asking us to return Caer Bronach to them and the Inquisition refusing to do so.   Or the Inquisition taking tithes and taxes from the area that we were not entitled to.    The fact was, as the Inquisitor pointed out, there was no one doing anything about the situation in Crestwood, even though Teagan himself had been given plenty of opportunity to do so before we got there.   It was the nobles of Ferelden neglecting their duty towards the area around Crestwood who created the situation.    Without the intervention of the Inquisition the village would likely be overrun by undead and the area an unproductive wasteland. 

 

No it wasn't, unless you want to tell me that Teagan is not allowed to bring up nasty things Grey warden order did because HoF who is 1 single individual and had no support form Order while dealing with Fifth blight thus Grey wardens didn't not contribute to it.And that event is occurred long time ago doesn't change fact it can still be brought up and used as an example of something... 

 

Except pretty much pissing on Ferelden laws and authorities and seizing Ferelden land without its consent.Ferelden not doing anything with Crestwood is poor justification in the eyes of the law and the country , as well i could break to someone house and live there because owners don't take care of the garden and expect owners to be fine with it.Then there is fact that allowing foreign army reside on the country territory is stupid let alone fact that rival country tries take control over this organization. Pretty much attacking Ferelden authorities on reasoning "it was not just" is what Sophia did so i don't see why Ferelden authorities should be happier with Inquisition doing the same.   

 

So in the end i don't see why Ferelden (or any sane country) would want around organisation that showed to ignore authorities and laws, its army resides within country borders, seizes land without consent of the country when it fits it , rival country wants to take over it and all it while organisation had no longer objective.   

 

[RoseLawliet]

About Warder's affirmation, yes, among the important countries Ferelden is a shame; Qunari have the best ships and explosives, Tevinter has the best mages, Nevarra has the best Dragon Hunters, Antiva has the best assassins, Orlais has the best politicians, academics, and (at least for now) the best army, Orzammar has the best smiths and in my opinion best technology, then we have Ferelden that has... the best dogs, honestly, I do like Mabaris, but they seem useless compared to the others' stuff.

 

Ferelden allegedly has the birthplace of Andraste, which is apparently a Big Important Thing. So if Orlais gets too uppity for their tastes, they can say "Andraste was ours." Maybe?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Ferelden allegedly has the birthplace of Andraste, which is apparently a Big Important Thing. So if Orlais gets too uppity for their tastes, they can say "Andraste was ours." Maybe?

I think Jader also claims to be the birthplace of Andraste. Which is apparently not a good idea to mention in Denerim.

[Andromelek]

Ferelden allegedly has the birthplace of Andraste, which is apparently a Big Important Thing. So if Orlais gets too uppity for their tastes, they can say "Andraste was ours." Maybe?

Andraste was an Alamarri who was born centuries prior to Calenhad, so no, they cannot really claim "Andraste is ours".

Also, relics and historic places don't actually help to a country, take as example England and USA, they don't have many historically important places compared to Greece, Egypt, Mexico, Peru and others, but they are superpowers while the others are pretty much screwed by now.

[RoseLawliet]

I never said they were right, or that I agreed. I do, however, think it's something they would do. How many words like "allegedly" and "apparently" does someone have to use before people realize they're simply reporting and not giving their own opinion?

[Nixou]

then we have Ferelden that has... the best dogs, honestly, I do like Mabaris, but they seem useless compared to the others' stuff. 

 

 

There's something the Orlesians learned the hard way about Ferelden at he River Dane: insult their dogs, and they go to war. Mistreat their dogs, and they'll win that war.

 

***

 

Using the Grey Wardens as an example was ridiculous, particularly since in Awakening the monarch actually invited the Warden's into Vigil's Keep in order that they could play a political role in the region.

 

 

The Wardens example strikes me as a way for the writers to show the savvy members of their audience that the whole council is insincere political theater: I suspect that most players who imported their worldstate had a Warden who was on friendly terms with Teagan, and the dissonance between Origins' Teagan and Trespasser's Teagan being here to show that Teagan doesn't believe his own rhetoric: he's posturing for an audience composed mostly of Orlesian nobles.

 

***

 

Andraste was an Alamarri who was born centuries prior to Calenhad, so no, they cannot really claim "Andraste is ours".

 

 

Vercingetorix was a Gaul.

France is named after the gothic tribe whose members invaded Gaul five centuries later, plundered its territories, raped its population, and turned the children born from the rapes into serfs.

We still claim that Vercingetorix is ours.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Holland, Belgium, Mexico, Canada.

Would you consider them world players?

Note the location of the Council meetings.

Orlais.

Well, with the exception of Mexico I don't think any of them are countries a complete snob can't stand to be associated with. Though I'll concede that that one proves your point.

[Harza]

At the start of trespasser I could see how Teagan and Ferelden would have some issues about the army on their borders. But the moment he used the Grey Wardens, it stopped making sense. As I understood it, Teagan is there to represent Ferelden, so in a manner of speaking he is the voice of Fereldens ruler there. Now in my first playthrough my Warden was lady Cousland who married Alistair, yet another warden and they now rule as king and queen. In what universe would those two use Grey Wardens in an argument the way Teagan did, when he is supposed to be representing them.

That's how I saw it at least, made no sense to me. And towards the end I just wanted to have an option to punch Teagans lights out.

[TheKomandorShepard]

At the start of trespasser I could see how Teagan and Ferelden would have some issues about the army on their borders. But the moment he used the Grey Wardens, it stopped making sense. As I understood it, Teagan is there to represent Ferelden, so in a manner of speaking he is the voice of Fereldens ruler there. Now in my first playthrough my Warden was lady Cousland who married Alistair, yet another warden and they now rule as king and queen. In what universe would those two use Grey Wardens in an argument the way Teagan did, when he is supposed to be representing them.

That's how I saw it at least, made no sense to me. And towards the end I just wanted to have an option to punch Teagans lights out.

LoL, Teagan isn't representing Grey wardens only Ferelden authorities ,aside from fact Alistair if king isn't member of the order anymore even in scenario where he isn't king he isn't reflection of said order as single individual.

[Harza]

LoL, Teagan isn't representing Grey wardens only Ferelden authorities ,aside from fact Alistair if king isn't member of the order anymore even in scenario where he isn't king he isn't reflection of said order as single individual.

Um, I did say he was representing Ferelden. And as to your point of Alistair not representing Grey Wardens, I do believe that when he is wearing the Grey Warden armor with their emblem on it, he is very much representing that order.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Um, I did say he was representing Ferelden. And as to your point of Alistair not representing Grey Wardens, I do believe that when he is wearing the Grey Warden armor with their emblem on it, he is very much representing that order.

Thus you shouldn't be suprised by that Teagan said something bad about grey warden order, or should i say brought up order infamous actions from the past. Reflecting not representing, Alistair is single individual and fact alistair is X (put one of his characteristics here) doesn't mean Grey warden order is X as best shown Alistair was only grey warden that opposed order stupid plan to summon army of demons , so fact one does like Alistair doesn't mean one has to like grey warden order and vice versa.   

[DraftiestTrash]

Thanks a Lot Teagan! I saved your ass and Redcliffe village when i was but a bumbling warden, and then once again as a powerful mage Inquisitor! He could have been a bit more understanding to the Inquisition situation, but nope just because were station near Ferelden and have a coulpe of Keeps in the Crestwood we need to be disband! Although, thanks to heavy infestation of Quanri and Dread Wolf Spies i have to disband my organization in order from it becoming corrupt like every other Order in Thedas had become once or twice in thier time.

[Sifr]

Thus you shouldn't be suprised by that Teagan said something bad about grey warden order, or should i say brought up order infamous actions from the past. Reflecting not representing, Alistair is single individual and fact alistair is X (put one of his characteristics here) doesn't mean Grey warden order is X as best shown Alistair was only grey warden that opposed order stupid plan to summon army of demons , so fact one does like Alistair doesn't mean one has to like grey warden order and vice versa.   

 

You're right that Alistair should not be used as the representive of the entire Grey Warden order, when he's just one of countless small cogs in the machine (if even that anymore if he became King). However, we can say the same when it comes to individual Grey Warden chapters not being representative of the entire Order itself.

 

Just because the Orlesians went along with the insane plan to summon a demon army, does not mean that any other southern nation in Thedas were involved, have given their support or were even informed of the plan in the first place.

 

We're told (by the Warden-ally) that individual Warden-Commanders are given full autonomy by Weisshaupt over their respective nations, so it does seem a little unfair for the Fereldan, Marcher or Nevarran Wardens to all be given grief over the events of Adamant, when from what the game seemed to imply, only Orlais was responsible after going rogue.

 

(But I suppose we can't also discount the slim possibility that the other Warden-Commanders and/or Weisshaupt knew about the plan, but decided to not get involved so they could have complete deniability if the whole thing went blew up in Clarel's face)

[TheKomandorShepard]

You're right that Alistair should not be used as the representive of the entire Grey Warden order, when he's just one of countless small cogs in the machine (if even that anymore if he became King). However, we can say the same when it comes to individual Grey Warden chapters not being representative of the entire Order itself.

 

Just because the Orlesians went along with the insane plan to summon a demon army, does not mean that any other southern nation in Thedas were involved, have given their support or were even informed of the plan in the first place.

 

We're told (by the Warden-ally) that individual Warden-Commanders are given full autonomy by Weisshaupt over their respective nations, so it does seem a little unfair for the Fereldan, Marcher or Nevarran Wardens to all be given grief over the events of Adamant, when from what the game seemed to imply, only Orlais was responsible after going rogue.

 

(But I suppose we can't also discount the slim possibility that the other Warden-Commanders and/or Weisshaupt knew about the plan, but decided to not get involved so they could have complete deniability if the whole thing went blew up in Clarel's face)

 

We can , In case of Orlesian wardens and not only (as wardens from other countries were present as well) we talk about large portion of the order and organized actions of the organisation and by that we can judge order on that.In the end it wasn't actions of the individual only actions of the organisation while not entire as i said large part of said organisation.

 

 

Assessment of the organisation on basis of actions of the larger part of it is pretty much only way to develop close to reality opinion about said organisation. So pretty much we can't judge entire organisation that have 2000 members on actions of 1 individual especially if individual acts on their own , but judging entire organisation on actions of 1000 of out 2000 members would give us picture of organisation.

  

[Sifr]

We can , In case of Orlesian wardens and not only (as wardens from other countries were present as well) we talk about large portion of the order and organized actions of the organisation and by that we can judge order on that.In the end it wasn't actions of the individual only actions of the organisation while not entire as i said large part of said organisation.

 

Assessment of the organisation on basis of actions of the larger part of it is pretty much only way to develop close to reality opinion about said organisation. So pretty much we can't judge entire organisation that have 2000 members on actions of 1 individual especially if individual acts on their own , but judging entire organisation on actions of 1000 of out 2000 members would give us picture of organisation.

  

 

But that's a false equivalency.

 

Of course the Wardens are going to appear completely insane and reckless if we're judging them based on a sample size that was taken from somewhere like Adamant Fortress. Besides the Orlesian Warden Commander having taken her chapter rogue (we don't see any sign of other nations being involved), those who objected to the plan were either forced to flee or murdered, and many of the mages were enthralled by demons.

 

It'd also be like accusing all Wardens in Thedas of being murderers, based on how a sample size taken from Ferelden shows the majority of Wardens from that nation are guility of committing manslaughter, murder, attempted murder or multiple homicide, often before joining the Warden ranks.

[TheKomandorShepard]

But that's a false equivalency.

 

Of course the Wardens are going to appear completely insane and reckless if we're judging them based on a sample size that was taken from somewhere like Adamant Fortress. Besides the Orlesian Warden Commander having taken her chapter rogue (we don't see any sign of other nations being involved), those who objected to the plan were either forced to flee or murdered, and many of the mages were enthralled by demons.

 

It'd also be like accusing all Wardens in Thedas of being murderers, based on how a sample size taken from Ferelden shows the majority of Wardens from that nation are guility of committing manslaughter, murder, attempted murder or multiple homicide, often before joining the Warden ranks.

 

It it isn't, as i said i can perfectly judge an organisation by actions of large part of said organisation.

 

It isn't also my fault that large portion of the order was stupid and easy to manipulate isn't it? I judge them on what large portion of the organisation showed to us.To my knowledge she didn't went rouge unless you have any prove that rest of the order defied her.Being a coward is poor excuse , they had possibility to refuse follow this insane plan very few did. 

 

Now you are going into extreme and you draw false conclusions, i don't accuse every individual warden of being murderer but if grey wardens by mass recruit murderers , theifs and other sort of criminals i can perfectly judge entire organisation on that fact.