710 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

Teagan made reasonable points and he was sent to see Ferelden's best interest. If Orlais wanted inquisition as its puppet then the best play left for teagen was to dismantle it. Besides no country will every accept a multinational paramilitary organization running around in their countries doing what they like.

 

The grey warden bit he mentioned refers to Sophia dryden and soldiers peak. Besides the stated goal of this inquisition was over, time to disband. The previous inquisition survived in weird form and look what that got us, i think meeting the last inquisitor made it quite clear. When the goal is accomplished best to end it rather than cling on. This point is made clear ample of times in the game.

 

Different situations require different kind of taskforce.

[TK514]

The problem I have with his Grey Warden comment isn't so much that he uses them as an example of an organization that screwed up, but rather that he immediately turns around and associates those Wardens with the Wardens in the Inquisition.

 

He doesn't say, "Hey, we've been through this before with some Grey Wardens".  He says "The Wardens did this once, and YOU HAVE WARDENS TOO!"  as though the Grey Wardens just routinely tried to depose monarchs and any organization allied with them was bound to do the same.

 

Of course, we, as players, know that Soldiers Peak had almost nothing to do with the Grey Wardens and everything to do with a power struggle within the Ferelden nobility of the time.  Sophia Dryden didn't try to depose her cousin because she was a Grey Warden, she did it because her cousin was insane and allies in the Ferelden nobility backed her claim.  She just happened to be a Warden and used local Warden forces loyal to her when she did it.  If I remember correctly. 

 

It is unclear if Teagan would know the actual details.

[AresKeith]

Yeah, the Warden bit is the only thing I can't really answer.

 

I might speculate that it was only an example of institutional corruption to drive his point home, but there's a lot of mental gymnastics going on to make that work.

 

Same here, everything else was a valid point

[TheKomandorShepard]

The problem I have with his Grey Warden comment isn't so much that he uses them as an example of an organization that screwed up, but rather that he immediately turns around and associates those Wardens with the Wardens in the Inquisition.

 

He doesn't say, "Hey, we've been through this before with some Grey Wardens".  He says "The Wardens did this once, and YOU HAVE WARDENS TOO!"  as though the Grey Wardens just routinely tried to depose monarchs and any organization allied with them was bound to do the same.

 

Of course, we, as players, know that Soldiers Peak had almost nothing to do with the Grey Wardens and everything to do with a power struggle within the Ferelden nobility of the time.  Sophia Dryden didn't try to depose her cousin because she was a Grey Warden, she did it because her cousin was insane and allies in the Ferelden nobility backed her claim.  She just happened to be a Warden and used local Warden forces loyal to her when she did it.  If I remember correctly. 

 

It is unclear if Teagan would know the actual details.

 

He accuses you of doing what grey wardens once did in ferelden and points that you even have them in your ranks.

 

As for Sophia , grey wardens were part of it institutionally at least ferelden branch of them as it went beyond individual involvement.

[Deanna]

I understand the inquisitions goal was achieved, I had no problem hanging up the sword and chain mail and disbanding in fact that's what I wanted from the very beginning before this dlc was even announced. But Teagan was way more of an ass than he had to be, justified or not. Even tho he was more aggressive or hostile toward me about it, I politely agreed but he STILL continued to be an ass and that's what really bugged me. Really ooc for Teagan.

[alialias]

yeah, I'm just pretending that was not him.  It made me sad to see him as such a jerk! 

[Big I]

Teagan is completely unreasonable in the DLC. Going on about qunari spies? How exactly does he think the gaatlock got into the palace in Denerim?

 

He badmouths the Wardens, despite them stopping the Blight, ruling Amaranthine and King Alistair being one. He badmouths the Inquisition, despite them doing everything from fighting darkspawn and red templars on the Storm Coast to saving his own arling from the Venatori. WTF Teagan, you used to be cool. In what crazy world is the Ferelden nobility a bigger pain in the ass than the Orlesians?

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I perfectly understood Teagan wanting the Inquisition disbanded but he didn't have to be a douchemobile about it. >_>

[KCMeredith]

Should've killed him along with Connor long ago, with a capable Arl ruling over Redcliffe Alexius and his stooges wouldn't have had such an easy time taking over the entire mage rebellion.

 

And then, instead of thanking me for getting those time travelling weirdos out of his house and restoring order to his lands he turns around and starts complaining like some orlesian noblewoman.

 

 

I really wanted to slap him or something, maybe take his head back home.

[Rekkampum]

Not really.  You spend most of the DLC proving him right.

 

Spoiler

The Inquisition is occupying a significant Ferelden fortification without cause or recompense long past the expiration of the crisis.

Then you neglect to inform the proper authorities/your so-called allies about the start of a Qunari invasion of the South, apparently under the delusion that 'The Inquisition knows best'.

Then, without permission or explanation you use Inquisition forces to all but declare martial law at the Winter Palace, violating yet another country's sovereignty.

Everyone else finally learns about the Qunari plot once you decide you can't keep it a secret anymore and realize it's a continent-wide thing you really should have told people about earlier.

Oh, and just the icing on the cake, you find out your organization is riddled with spies from both the Qunari and Solas.

 

I missed his comment about the Wardens, unless you mean the one where he's talking about them being exiled in the past.  Which isn't hating on the current Wardens so much as citing similar historical examples and repercussions, unless I'm misremembering his comment.

 

Spoiler

The only thing hidden from the Council was the dead body discovered. The Inquisitor can actually choose to warn the Council about the Qunari threat once more information is discovered, so that is metagaming. The Inquisition, to my knowledge, does not declare martial law whatsoever. I definitely don't see where you got the impression they did. The Qunari spies - likely converts to the Qun from Kirkwall - are perhaps the one valid criticism. Solas, given his importance on the other hand, is something no amount of oversight would've been able to discover; this doesn't even include Leliana not realizing Rainier was Blackwall. At most, this perhaps does show that the Inquisition, like any large organization, is not without its weaknesses and imperfections, which leads me to Teagan.

 

Teagan, given what happened with Loghain, has hardly any room to moralize about politics, especially seeing as there were banns who still supported Loghain even though it was clear that his obsession with Orlais invading and neglect of the Darkspawn threat was going to cause Ferelden to fall to the Blight... which would've certainly happened had not the HOF intervened. The same neutral power he's been criticizing has also prevented wars between other nations, and if you kept the Wardens, halted the invasion of Darkspawn, stopped an assassination attempt on the current ruler of Ferelden, in addition to a litany of other pressing issues that existed independent of the threat the Breach and Corypheus posed. The Inquisition clearly still has worth. It just needs refining in certain areas.

[Carmen_Willow]

It seems that Bioware is determined to turn every good guy into a real PITA (Pain in the a**). I'm so glad that they left Nathaniel Howe alone. I loved Teagan, he was a great guy.  It's sad.

[ThePhoenixKing]

It seems that Bioware is determined to turn every good guy into a real PITA (Pain in the a**). I'm so glad that they left Nathaniel Howe alone. I loved Teagan, he was a great guy.  It's sad.

 

Well, making conflict feel natural and engaging is takes time and effort! You can't actually expect the developers to have to work hard on a game, do you? No, it's far simpler to just hand a character the Conflict Ball, and let things go from there. Making them crazy or secretly evil also works too! /sarcasm

[Bethgael]

You know what really grinds my gears, though?

I went back to play DA:O, WK again just to make sure I was right.

The Grey Wardens didn't "invade" Ferelden under Sophia Dryden and Teagan should bloody well know it, especially if Alistair is his king.

 

Sophia Dryden was a legitimate cousin to the Theirins and in line for the Throne. Ardal Theirin ended up with it. Instead of executing Sophia, he made her join the Grey Wardens, effectively removing her from the succession. However, Ardal turned out to be a tyrant--the worst, apparently, until the Orlesian occupation that ended 70 years before the Fifth Blight. The end result was that the nobles of Ferelden--including Cousland, Guerrin and Wulff, started a Civil War against the Crown, citing abuses (any further details are "lost to time" but we do know that Cousland was executed by Theirin).

Wulff then sent a letter to Dryden begging for help against her cousin. She used the only force she had available to her--the Wardens. No one objected to that, except the framming Wardens at Weisshaupt. It went steadily downhill from there, Theirin won, Dryden used demons. Dogs and cats started living together--chaos.

Then the Wardens were exiled by Ardal Theirin for "getting involved in politics" but mostly because they'd stood against him. He then kept on with his tyranting and suchlike until his own death. No one liked him, including the other Ferelden nobles. He is, in fact, almost a byword to the nobles of Ferelden as a blip in the Theirin line, partly because he exiled the Wardens--who were considered, still, to be a noble and honourable Order if you paid attention at the start of DA:O. The only one who had "issues" with them was Loghain Mac Tir. And the "whys" of that is another thread.

In any case, Teagan never believed the Wardens did such a thing. His exact words to the HoF in Redcliffe. "I don't believe a word of it."

So, Teagan's not only unreasonably "against" the Grey Wardens, (especially if he has a crush on the HoF/she is his queen/Alistair is the king/Redcliffe was saved, etc etc), he's not even doing so for the correct historical reasons, and he's completely OOC to say so. (Whether the IQ should be disbanded--he had good reason to be concerned. The way it was handled? Very un-Teagan).

It's just bad writing. That's all.
 

[Rekkampum]

You know what really grinds my gears, though?

I went back to play DA:O, WK again just to make sure I was right.

The Grey Wardens didn't "invade" Ferelden under Sophia Dryden and Teagan should bloody well know it, especially if Alistair is his king.

 

Sophia Dryden was a legitimate cousin to the Theirins and in line for the Throne. Ardal Theirin ended up with it. Instead of executing Sophia, he made her join the Grey Wardens, effectively removing her from the succession. However, Ardal turned out to be a tyrant--the worst, apparently, until the Orlesian occupation that ended 70 years before the Fifth Blight. The end result was that the nobles of Ferelden--including Cousland, Guerrin and Wulff, started a Civil War against the Crown, citing abuses (any further details are "lost to time" but we do know that Cousland was executed by Theirin).

Wulff then sent a letter to Dryden begging for help against her cousin. She used the only force she had available to her--the Wardens. No one objected to that, except the framming Wardens at Weisshaupt. It went steadily downhill from there, Theirin won, Dryden used demons. Dogs and cats started living together--chaos.

Then the Wardens were exiled by Ardal Theirin for "getting involved in politics" but mostly because they'd stood against him. He then kept on with his tyranting and suchlike until his own death. No one liked him, including the other Ferelden nobles. He is, in fact, almost a byword to the nobles of Ferelden as a blip in the Theirin line, partly because he exiled the Wardens--who were considered, still, to be a noble and honourable Order if you paid attention at the start of DA:O. The only one who had "issues" with them was Loghain Mac Tir. And the "whys" of that is another thread.

In any case, Teagan never believed the Wardens did such a thing. His exact words to the HoF in Redcliffe. "I don't believe a word of it."

So, Teagan's not only unreasonably "against" the Grey Wardens, (especially if he has a crush on the HoF/she is his queen/Alistair is the king/Redcliffe was saved, etc etc), he's not even doing so for the correct historical reasons, and he's completely OOC to say so. (Whether the IQ should be disbanded--he had good reason to be concerned. The way it was handled? Very un-Teagan).

It's just bad writing. That's all.
 

 

OH dayum! You done brought out the history book!!!!

[dragonflight288]

I just beat the DLC.

I actually found a letter from Queen Anora authorizing him to speak with the authority of the crown.

What I took from his behavior was he had orders from the crown to try and get the Inquisition disbanded, so he had to do what was necessary. But I also remember back in Origins where he usually let Eamon handle all diplomatic affairs.

I think it was a mixture of following orders and a hatred of being a diplomat while dealing with the knowledge that Orlais was making moves to gain power and influence over the Inquisition, and Orlais' history is built on using false pretenses to build and expand their empire.

From the Ferelden point of view, it was a standing and potentially hostile force standing at the ready to seize things in Ferelden should Orlais will it.

[Xetykins]

I just beat the DLC.
I actually found a letter from Queen Anora authorizing him to speak with the authority of the crown.

Depending on how the letter was worded, I hope I don't find the same letter from King Alistair, because that would be really weird. I won't ever believe he's got green light to slander the wardens if Alistair is king.

[Bethgael]

Depending on how the letter was worded, I hope I don't find the same letter from King Alistair, because that would be really weird. I won't ever believe he's got green light to slander the wardens if Alistair is king.

There is a letter. It's not worded the same as Anora's. The rest... not saying a word.

[dragonflight288]

Depending on how the letter was worded, I hope I don't find the same letter from King Alistair, because that would be really weird. I won't ever believe he's got green light to slander the wardens if Alistair is king.

 

Well, in my playthrough, it was from Anora and she's married to Cousland who's also in a relatiosnship with Divine Leliana. 

 

Anora pretty much said Teagan spoke with the authority of Ferelden's crown, and his word would be considered hers, and a few other things that I won't mention. 

 

I'm willing to bet she gave him some other orders on the side. 

 

I haven't read Alistair's. 

[Korva]

I don't understand why they had to use a character that many players found sympathetic for this. Shock value? An established character should either stay recognizable or have character development the player can actually follow.

 

I really don't like this development overall. None of what we did in Inquisition seems to matter in terms of how people view us now. And I am absolutely NOT on board with being accused of things that are not my fault to begin with because I was never given a choice. No, writers, if you don't give me the explicit option to, say, get the crown's "okay" for the use of Crestwood Keep ASAP, then I will assume that my top-notch ambassador and my spymaster who is friends with the King did it for me, because of course they would. If you make my character hush up a murder in a place where we are guests despite that being a blatantly stupid idea, I will not accept blame for that either. It's understandable that most nobles are nervous and want the status quo back. But don't force my Inquisitor completely OOC, refuse to give me logical options, and then turn around and cry "See! Arrogant! Tyrant! Corrupt!"

[Sifr]

To be fair to Teagan... it's not like it's the first time we've seen him this seething towards someone he believes has illegally seized power under the guise of "restoring order", since this is the exact same way he acted towards Loghain back in Origins when he seized the throne.

 

So, I don't think this isn't out of character for him, the only difference is that this time we're seeing him from the other side of the table.

[Blue Gloves]

Yes Teagan was a giant cloaca.  I don't think he was necessarily OOC, since (as Sifr said) we've seen him get feisty with Heroes and former allies before when he thinks a power grab is in the offing; but he was awfully quick to go from respectful disagreement to out-and-out douchebaggery, even with a level headed and goody two-shoes Inquisitor. 

 

I think, however, that we are forgetting Teagan's most egregious crime of all.

 

Spoiler

 

The real problem is this hat.  Why is he wearing this ugly as hell, upside down, pot-with-a-flap on his head?  Is he going bald and doesn't want anyone to know?  And most importantly, why is Bioware so hat challenged?

 

 

[Korva]

The real problem is this hat.  Why is he wearing this ugly as hell, upside down, pot-with-a-flap on his head?

 

Thank you. I needed a laugh, and that did the trick. What a spot-on description.

[Bethgael]

To be fair to Teagan... it's not like it's the first time we've seen him this seething towards someone he believes has illegally seized power under the guise of "restoring order", since this is the exact same way he acted towards Loghain back in Origins when he seized the throne.

 

So, I don't think this isn't out of character for him, the only difference is that this time we're seeing him from the other side of the table.

This part is, I think, actually just fine, yes. Caveat: Mostly. Loghain had just allowed his nephew to die and illegally grabbed Ferelden's Throne, while refusing to allow Wardens in to deal with the Blight (this is before the news of the poisoning happened, of course). In contrast: The IQ saved Redcliffe's arse (if mages chosen--without a thank you, btw) and did help restore order in Ferelden when the Crown couldn't (for whatever reason). And in 3-odd years, has helped Orlais and Ferelden keep peace between them, stopped assassinations on both rulers and shown no actual sign of trying to take over. The fear is there, and valid, sure. But there's a slight difference.

It's the WTF on the Wardens that bothers me. And, as Blue Gloves rightly pointed out, he gets very bolshy very quickly even when treated with absolute respect. And Korva's last post pretty much sums up the Voiced Protag for me in toto. Give me real choices, i say, don't make me do something just so someone can yell at me.

[Sifr]

It does seem a bit narrow-sighted of Teagan to criticise the Inquisition as a military organisation with no political allegiance, who nonetheless maintain a presence and strongholds in another nation, when both of these similarly apply to both the Templars and the Wardens.

 

Actually, what's even more hypocritical is that in gratitude for ending the Blight, the monarch of Ferelden gave the Wardens complete and utter control over the entire Arling of Amaranthine (thus making them an actual player in the Landsmeet).

 

In contrast, Ferelden's gratitude to the Inquisition having closed the Breach (twice) goes so far as to say they cannot run a single fort in the middle of nowhere, nor use it as a trading hub, without crossing the line?

[Milan92]

It does seem a bit narrow-sighted of Teagan to criticise the Inquisition as a military organisation with no political allegiance, who nonetheless maintain a presence and strongholds in another nation, when both of these similarly apply to both the Templars and the Wardens.

 

Actually, what's even more hypocritical is that Ferelden actually did give the Wardens complete and utter control over the entire Arling of Amaranthine (thus making them an actual player in the Landsmeet), but the Inquisition running a single fort and using it as a trading hub is apparently crossing the line.

 

I think its mostly fear. The Inquisition has the potential to rival any kingdom in Thedas.