He's serving the interests of his country, that's fine. At least he wasn't a jerk about it.
I'm not arguing that. As I said, it's an understandable position. It makes sense, just as it makes sense for Ferelden to want the Inquisition gone. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
His position is understandable, but he wants to make the Inquisition a puppet of Orlais. That's the problem. He's not interested in supervision so much as complete control.
????
That doesn't make sense....To have supervision _IS_ to have complete control otherwise it's nothing more than a rubber stamp a la who "controls" both Rivain and Antiva (hint:it's not the monarchy in either country)
????
That doesn't make sense....To have supervision _IS_ to have complete control otherwise it's nothing more than a rubber stamp a la who "controls" both Rivain and Antiva (hint:it's not the monarchy in either country)
I'd say that supervision is much milder. What Orlais is talking about is basically turning the Inquisition into an arm of the Orlesian army. That's a far cry from "don't screw up or we'll stop/reprimand you". If the Inquisition were to become a puppet of Orlais, how long do you think it would take before the Orlesian leadership decide to use the Inquisition's forces in Ferelden to "retake their lost province"?
Um...that doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever...
You can NOT have supervision without total control. Anything else and how exactly do you supervise?
Um...that doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever...
You can NOT have supervision without total control. Anything else and how exactly do you supervise?
If you just supervise, you have the authority to make decisions and if need be take action if the supervised party fail to do what they're expected to do. But the one you supervise still have some leeway to act as they see fit as long as it doesn't contradict your orders.
Total control takes away that level of autonomy. The supervised party has to follow your instructions to the letter and have to ask for your permission before they do anything. You control everything they do.
Total control is basically an extreme version of supervision.
Am I still not making any sense? Not sure how I can explain it any clearer. Imho the difference is rather obvious.
Well when it turns out they were right about that servant being up to no good...
If you just supervise, you have the authority to make decisions and if need be take action if the supervised party fail to do what they're expected to do. But the one you supervise still have some leeway to act as they see fit as long as it doesn't contradict your orders.
Total control takes away that level of autonomy. The supervised party has to follow your instructions to the letter and have to ask for your permission before they do anything. You control everything they do.
Total control is basically an extreme version of supervision.
Am I still not making any sense? Not sure how I can explain it any clearer. Imho the difference is rather obvious.
That makes NO sense whatsoever...Let's use an example maybe to clear this up perhaps.
An inquisition soldier is accused of a crime in Neverra. Unless the Neverran officials have the ability to arrest, and subject said soldier to their own laws, they do not have any supervisory power whatsoever over the inquistion.
The wardens are a good example...The warden CAN and do ignore the laws of the land they operate in since they don't answer to any national government.
That makes NO sense whatsoever...Let's use an example maybe to clear this up perhaps.
An inquisition soldier is accused of a crime in Neverra. Unless the Neverran officials have the ability to arrest, and subject said soldier to their own laws, they do not have any supervisory power whatsoever over the inquistion.
The wardens are a good example...The warden CAN and do ignore the laws of the land they operate in since they don't answer to any national government.
Alright, we're talking about two completely different things. I'm not talking about laws and law enforcement. I'm talking chain of command. Who gets to give orders to who, and how do they expect their orders to be carried out.
In your example, I'm not talking about the Nevarran officials. I'm talking about the person who posted the Inquisition soldier in Nevarra. Orlais isn't
talking about making the Inquisition respect Orlesian laws. That's not the issue. The issue is that they want to decide what the Inquisition do, when they do it, and how they do it. They want the Inquisition to become a part of the Orlesian army. They want to be at the top of the Inquisitions chain of command.
Isn't there a way to make him insane in Origins? Or die or something?
So no, the HOF and Alistair had to everything alone because everyone at Ostagar DIED!
I don't hate Teagan.
Orlais is buttering up the Inquisitor because they want the Inquisition to be their private army , they always worked like this using anything Chantry related to expand.
Ferelden doesn't have the influence of Orlais , has already been invaded by them.So they want the Inquisition to disband , and move away from their country and borders.
Anyway the whole time the Inquisitor has already lost control of the Inquisition.
You disband , or you give your power to Orlais/the Chantry.
Nothing else was on the table.
Teagan... Your rulers are both GW's. And it's a Queen Cousland/Alistair world too! So I hope that I leave your castle to burn, next time
, Teagan.
Queen cousland isn't a ruler of anything in my canon, she does not even exist,and it is possible to not have a GW on the throne.
Also tegan claims were legitimate.
Anyway the whole time the Inquisitor has already lost control of the Inquisition.
You disband , or you give your power to Orlais/the Chantry.
Nothing else was on the table.
Except that you aren't giving over your power to Orlais, their government has absolutely no role or control in future Inquisition affairs.
Neither are you really giving power over to the Chantry. The Inquisitor makes it very clear that from this point on the Inquisition will operate as Divine Victoria's personal honour guard and answer directly to her.
In other words, the Inquisition does not answer to anyone in the Chantry but Divine Victoria herself. This is no different from what the original Inquisition did when they reformatted themselves into the Seekers of Truth.
Actually, I suspect that the wording itself might have been phrased that way deliberately, that we swore to serve Divine Victoria... meaning that the Chantry and any future Divine should not expect the same automatic loyalty from them. If you pick the rather more aggressive option, the Inquisitor makes it very clear that for now, their playing nice is merely a temporary arrangement to placate them.
(Sure, this leaves it open that in time, the Inquisition might eventually go rogue much like the Seekers, but shame on that Inquisitor, not us).
If the Inquisition continues, I suspect that they are taking the Warden/Seeker approach, chosing to operate from the shadows to better prepare for future crises that demand a non-government organisation to step in and act, allowing them to avoid any red-tape.
Tegan became so b*tthurt it was unbelievable. All these years have not done him well.
But in his defense, he says he knows the Inquisition helped him with the breach and all, but he's scared that the organization will grow too much and become a threat. Regarding his hate about the Wardens, I think it's directed to the DAI wardens, not the DAO ones. Cause in DAI they were pretty messed up and almost caused a disaster.
His points are somewhat fair but it's his tone that I despise. He's trying to force his way onto the Inquisition while he could have just explained his concerns in a peaceful way. My quizzy is quite diplomatic and really nice at heart so she would have understood that... But not when you talk in an hostile way like he does! That would put anyone off!
Tegan became so b*tthurt it was unbelievable. All these years have not done him well.
But in his defense, he says he knows the Inquisition helped him with the breach and all, but he's scared that the organization will grow too much and become a threat. Regarding his hate about the Wardens, I think it's directed to the DAI wardens, not the DAO ones. Cause in DAI they were pretty messed up and almost caused a disaster.
His points are somewhat fair but it's his tone that I despise. He's trying to force his way onto the Inquisition while he could have just explained his concerns in a peaceful way. My quizzy is quite diplomatic and really nice at heart so she would have understood that... But not when you talk in an hostile way like he does! That would put anyone off!
This reminds me of the Jade Empire side quest "The Outlander" where the Spirit Monk engages Ser Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard (yes, that is his full name and title, which he bears proudly) in a debate, and the Minister of Culture explains to us that it's not the thing that we say but the way we say it that'll sway the judges one way or another.
There should be more Bioware games with John Cleese in them. 
Jade Empire had a lot of good things to it.
Except that you aren't giving over your power to Orlais, their government has absolutely no role or control in future Inquisition affairs.
Neither are you really giving power over to the Chantry. The Inquisitor makes it very clear that from this point on the Inquisition will operate as Divine Victoria's personal honour guard and answer directly to her.
In other words, the Inquisition does not answer to anyone in the Chantry but Divine Victoria herself. This is no different from what the original Inquisition did when they reformatted themselves into the Seekers of Truth.
Actually, I suspect that the wording itself might have been phrased that way deliberately, that we swore to serve Divine Victoria... meaning that the Chantry and any future Divine should not expect the same automatic loyalty from them. If you pick the rather more aggressive option, the Inquisitor makes it very clear that for now, their playing nice is merely a temporary arrangement to placate them.
(Sure, this leaves it open that in time, the Inquisition might eventually go rogue much like the Seekers, but shame on that Inquisitor, not us).
If the Inquisition continues, I suspect that they are taking the Warden/Seeker approach, chosing to operate from the shadows to better prepare for future crises that demand a non-government organisation to step in and act, allowing them to avoid any red-tape.
Check the epilogue , the Inquisitor ends up a figure head.
You're not ruling the Inquisition anymore .
Orlais has power over the Chantry , it's always been the case .That's why Vivienne gather the relatives of Duke Bastien , she tells you with those two orlesians , the Inquisition will get more power over the Divine vote.
The Divine lives in Val Royeaux too , personal guard of the Divine means the Inquisition soldiers protect Orlais...that's where the heart of the Chantry is.
You think rulers will admit they messed up on this grand scale? In teh end they will always find a scapegoat or find something they can push it all on, and that's what Anora, Alistair and Teagan did.
Orlais has power over the Chantry , it's always been the case .That's why Vivienne gather the relatives of Duke Bastien , she tells you with those two orlesians , the Inquisition will get more power over the Divine vote.
That's because one of the 2 relatives is a Grand Cleric, who was also said to be instrumental in choosing the next Divine.
Check the epilogue , the Inquisitor ends up a figure head.
You're not ruling the Inquisition anymore .
Orlais has power over the Chantry , it's always been the case .That's why Vivienne gather the relatives of Duke Bastien , she tells you with those two orlesians , the Inquisition will get more power over the Divine vote.
The Divine lives in Val Royeaux too , personal guard of the Divine means the Inquisition soldiers protect Orlais...that's where the heart of the Chantry is.
The epilogue doesn't say that, all it says is that the Inquisition handed over many of the duties it once held.
In terms of what power the Inquisitor retains, all we do know is that they are answerable to the Divine, so whether this makes them just a figurehead or they remain the leader of their own organisation under the Divine (like the Lord Seeker), we don't know?
It's more accurate to say that the Chantry has always been mired in Orlesian politics, but at the same time, Orlais does not rule the Chantry, nor does the Inquisition now serve Orlais by default as the Divine's personal forces. In fact, the epilogue states that the Inquisition's job is to defend the Divine against who would attempt to interfere in her plans, which includes Orlais.
That the Exalted Council continues to operate if you chose to continue (but isn't mentioned if you disband) would suggest that the Inquisition did indeed remain as some kind of NGO under the Divine, with the Exalted Council operating as it's oversight committee. That this council includes both Ferelden and Orlais means that both nations have equal role in the Inquisition, rather than one dominating or controlling it.
Yes Teagan was a giant cloaca. I don't think he was necessarily OOC, since (as Sifr said) we've seen him get feisty with Heroes and former allies before when he thinks a power grab is in the offing; but he was awfully quick to go from respectful disagreement to out-and-out douchebaggery, even with a level headed and goody two-shoes Inquisitor.
I think, however, that we are forgetting Teagan's most egregious crime of all.
Spoiler
Hat AND Hair-Challenged! I have yet to see a Bioware game with truly awesome hair!
Teagan's probably ornery because the Inquisition either recruited or accidentally killed his son nephew, over the course of the game... seriously, what did happen to Connor after we completed either the Mage or Templar questline?
(And when will they just admit that Teagan and Isolde totally had a thing...?)
No I personally don't hate Teagan. But that didn't stop my Inquisitor from wanting to deck him in the face.
Teagan's probably ornery because the Inquisition either recruited or accidentally killed his
sonnephew, over the course of the game... seriously, what did happen to Connor after we completed either the Mage or Templar questline?
(And when will they just admit that Teagan and Isolde totally had a thing...?)
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