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Humans vs Elves: Stand up and be counted.


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#151
Call Me Jord

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Seekers are also mundanes, and the Seeker ritual ®enforces discipline they were chosen for.

 

Whereas we know that ex-tranquil mages are extremely emotionally volatile, and most tranquil are mages who weren't trusted to be emotionally strong enough to resist demons in the first place, hence the tranquility.

 

I just have to point this out, while I would agree with you, recent knowledge makes me disagree.

 

I think the only Ex-Tranquil Mages who are extremely emotionally volatile are those possessed by Demons. The Tranquil in Asunder was sent on a mission to see how Tranquility being reverse, he then became possessed by a Demon. Perhaps it's due to the Demon they are emotionally volatile, which would be quite fitting.

 

Where as Seeker's had their Tranquil state ended by coming into contact with a Spirit of Faith. Obviously the outcome of coming out of Tranquil with a Spirit's help would be vastly different to that if a Demon did it. 

 

Forgive me if I'm in-correct, I'm only going of the one Tranquil from Asunder, and my own thoughts. Have there been any other Ex-Tranquils (Outside of Seekers) in the universe? If so, if anyone can find out what events led them out of Tranquil I'd appreciate it. 

 

Also if my fingers try to make me type Tranquil as Trainquil one more time, I might get new ones!



#152
Eelectrica

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Go team Solas. Elves are taking over and putting the 'Thedas under new management' sign up, and doing some major interior re-decorating it seems.

Ferelden could use some colour and the Orlesians need a kick in the pants, as do the Qunari, and Vints.

 

#justice4solas



#153
Andreas Amell

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What does that have to do with you quoted from me, then?

 

What you quoted was a point about the impossibility of restoring the ancient civilization as it once was. You framed your response as a disagreement, or doubt, but I'm not seeing a relevance to what you quoted.

Not everything in the past may have been lost. If there still remains other groups of ancient elves with knowledge of their culture then it's not completely dead. If Mythal has been salvaging ancient magic then it's not dead either. 



#154
Stark777

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Go team Solas. Elves are taking over and putting the 'Thedas under new management' sign up, and doing some major interior re-decorating it seems.

Ferelden could use some colour and the Orlesians need a kick in the pants, as do the Qunari, and Vints.

 

#justice4solas

 

 

Well, what Solas is trying to do will probably destroy the modern elves too...



#155
Mevanna

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Go team Solas. Elves are taking over and putting the 'Thedas under new management' sign up, and doing some major interior re-decorating it seems.

Ferelden could use some colour and the Orlesians need a kick in the pants, as do the Qunari, and Vints.

 

#justice4solas

 

Ooh, come sit in the elf corner with me! We can have popcorn while we watch the world burn. Geronimo!


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#156
norealer

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It reminds me of the ending of the Masked Empire -the mysterious entity we now know is Solas  kills an agent, Felassan, heavily implied to be another ancient elf, after he refuses to take control of the eluvian network from Briala. Felassan says to Solas that the people of this era are 'stronger' than Solas thought; it's implied he thought that Briala should have a chance of fixing this world rather than wiping it out. So Solas, regretfully... kills him. 

 

According to Cole, Solas seemed to have considered Felassan as "his friend", but from what I read from the book, Felassan seemed pretty terrified about failing his mission and defying Fen'Harel's will, and the "obey or die" dynamic is not usually how I imagined "friendship" to be. Maybe part of the reason why a lot of people don't think the mysterious fade figure to be Fen'Harel when the evidence is so obvious is that what was described in the book is very different from the kind and caring Solas we knew in the main game. But after meeting him in Trespasser, the similarities began to show. I like Felassan and cannot unseen what Solas has done.

 

Relevant quotes about Fen'Harel from the book:

The thought of staying awake struck him. He had herbs that would keep him from dreaming most of the time, and wards that would do a good job of blocking him from the Fade when the herbs failed. He could have a lovely time, he thought, running and hiding and looking over one shoulder for the rest of his life.
...
“Yes, I know. She deserves a chance,” Felassan said. “And what’s the harm, really? Why not let the girl try?”
Behind him, there was only silence. There would be no debate, no logical argument or impassioned plea. Felassan had known that when he sat down before the campfire.

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#157
Zana

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No faction (of the three) is any better than the other.  Ancient elves enslaved each other.  Humans enslave elves.  Elves kill humans.  Simply put if the roles were reversed, the fate of humans would be no better than the current fate of elves.  Sera was right (yes, I am willing to admit that one of the most annoying characters in DAI was actually right) history doesn't matter, race doesn't matter.  Religious views and biological differences aside, the mindset of the three (ancients included) races is really very similar.   All races have (or had) a few idealists that tried helping the oppressed portion of the population.  Very rarely did they succeed, usually getting killed (and often martyred).

 

The fairy tale of equality or at least peace between different races in DA is a great goal to strive to, but any such peace will likely not last forever.  As such, it really does not matter. 

 

So the choice is obvious.  All races must perish so nugs can rise and take over the world.


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#158
SurelyForth

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So the choice is obvious.  All races must perish so nugs can rise and take over the world.

 

I could get behind mass genocide for this. 



#159
Mevanna

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So the choice is obvious.  All races must perish so nugs can rise and take over the world.

 

Leliana said she wanted to take up nug-breeding... it's all falling into place now! She was an agent of the nugs all along!



#160
Blood Mage Reaver

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In my opinion, Solas has no idea of what he is doing and he will screw up big time as always.

 

If we account for the revelations of Descent and how the Fade looks like in it's raw state (full of lyrium veins), we can make the fair assumption that the place it's made and held together by the dreams of the Titans who themselves are immortal and godlike entities by nature.

 

Elves weren't originally immortal in any sense, the Evanuris won a war, against whom we speculate to be the dwarves, thus obtaining control of the Titans and their blood which was used to master the Fade and in turn reshape reality to be how they wanted.

 

Oghren in Origins credits the agelessness of the Guardian to the massive lyrium deposits in the mountain the Temple of Sacred Ashes was build in and that guy alone had enough power to keep a small army of Reavers and a High Dragon at bay.

 

If we are to believe that lyrium and the Titans are the source of the Evanuris godhood and that the Evanuris, by controlling the dreams of the Titans and channeling their power to their servants, were the source of the elves magic and immortality then you can be sure that Solas is going to shoot himself in the foot.

 

Back at the days of Arlathan before the Veil, there were no humans in Thedas and much less mages amongst them who knew what they were doing. If Solas tears down the Veil that will open the possibility for powerful and corrupt magisters to seek control of the Titans and obtain the same sort of power the Evanuris had which will be ten times worse for the elves or anyone else for the matter.

 

Solas pretty much underestimates everyone who came after the ancient elves while forgetting that their own might came from pillaging the gods of nature that came before them.

 

The bad future all but shows that Corypheus, who was a human to begin with, managed to conquer the world by corrupting the Titans with the Taint and using red lyrium to enslave every race to his thrall.

 

If he had managed to obtain the Anchor as he originally planned, he would have entered the Black City and probably obtained the same kind of power to reshape reality as the Evanuris had which would have been ten times worse.

 

Speculations apart, the point is that elves aren't any more special than humans, they just tapped into the power of the real gods first and abused that power until it destroyed them.

 

Solas, being the idiot he is, thinks that destroying the Veil now even if it kills most humans, kossith and magically inept elves will pave the way for the true Elvhen to return to glory but in reality all that accomplishes is to open the path for the most powerful mages of any given race to race after the Black City and control of the Titans just as the Evanuris did before them.

 

All that potential problems without even accounting for what the Taint and Blood magic, completely different kinds of magic than those related to lyrium and the Titans, might do to the world once they have unrestricted access to the Fade and the Titans themselves.



#161
Eelectrica

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Well, what Solas is trying to do will probably destroy the modern elves too...

That does seem to be a possibilty, yes, but I'm sure it'll be fine.



#162
themageguy

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*squeek squeek*

#163
Katebe94

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According to Cole, Solas seemed to have considered Felassan as "his friend", but from what I read from the book, Felassan seemed pretty terrified about failing his mission and defying Fen'Harel's will, and the "obey or die" dynamic is not usually how I imagined "friendship" to be. Maybe part of the reason why a lot of people don't think the mysterious fade figure to be Fen'Harel when the evidence is so obvious is that what was described in the book is very different from the kind and caring Solas we knew in the main game. But after meeting him in Trespasser, the similarities began to show. I like Felassan and cannot unseen what Solas has done.

 

Relevant quotes about Fen'Harel from the book:

The thought of staying awake struck him. He had herbs that would keep him from dreaming most of the time, and wards that would do a good job of blocking him from the Fade when the herbs failed. He could have a lovely time, he thought, running and hiding and looking over one shoulder for the rest of his life.
...
“Yes, I know. She deserves a chance,” Felassan said. “And what’s the harm, really? Why not let the girl try?”
Behind him, there was only silence. There would be no debate, no logical argument or impassioned plea. Felassan had known that when he sat down before the campfire.

 

 

Thanks for those quotes, they're really interesting! I guess this may show how his time in the Inquisition altered him - especially if befriended/romanced by the inquisitor. Doesn't change his ultimate goal, though. 

 

The ability to behave completely mercilessly towards someone he cares about comes down to a core part of his character - as you say, kindness coupled with utter (if often regretful) ruthlessness.



#164
Stark777

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That does seem to be a possibilty, yes, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

 

Because Solas' plans always come out fine, like when he created the Veil and when he gave the orb to Corypheus..... oh wait



#165
Eelectrica

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Because Solas' plans always come out fine, like when he created the Veil and when he gave the orb to Corypheus..... oh wait

He's clearly due for a win.

 

#justice4solas



#166
TobiTobsen

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He's clearly due for a win.

 

#justice4solas

 

BRkj4jM_700wa_0.gif

 

"Nice" win scenario Solas got there...



#167
Mevanna

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Because Solas' plans always come out fine, like when he created the Veil and when he gave the orb to Corypheus..... oh wait

 

Hey, his plans may not have worked, but at least he did something.

 

The Veil may have been pretty bad, but as Solas said, all the alternatives would have been even worse. We weren't there, so we may have to take his word for it. ^^



#168
Eelectrica

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BRkj4jM_700wa_0.gif

 

"Nice" win scenario Solas got there...

Indeed it is.

Bye bye poncy Orlesians

Bye bye corrupt Tevinter slavers

Bye bye Qunari, your take over plans are about to be ended.



#169
Dean_the_Young

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I just have to point this out, while I would agree with you, recent knowledge makes me disagree.

 

I think the only Ex-Tranquil Mages who are extremely emotionally volatile are those possessed by Demons. The Tranquil in Asunder was sent on a mission to see how Tranquility being reverse, he then became possessed by a Demon. Perhaps it's due to the Demon they are emotionally volatile, which would be quite fitting.

 

Where as Seeker's had their Tranquil state ended by coming into contact with a Spirit of Faith. Obviously the outcome of coming out of Tranquil with a Spirit's help would be vastly different to that if a Demon did it. 

 

Forgive me if I'm in-correct, I'm only going of the one Tranquil from Asunder, and my own thoughts. Have there been any other Ex-Tranquils (Outside of Seekers) in the universe? If so, if anyone can find out what events led them out of Tranquil I'd appreciate it. 

 

Also if my fingers try to make me type Tranquil as Trainquil one more time, I might get new ones!

 

Ex-Tranquil mage volatility is a point Cassandra brings up as part of the end of her character arc, post-Seeker-reveal. It is a case of tell, not show, but it's the authority source we have on this- and what we're told is that mages are volatile post-tranquility, a danger, and may or may not eventually recover with time. That's an unknown.

 

There's a bit of a moral choice presented- whether the player thinks it should be tried or not. But Cassandra definitely sets it up in radical contrast to the idea of 'ex-Tranquil = Seeker immune to possession.'



#170
Stark777

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Indeed it is.

Bye bye poncy Orlesians

Bye bye corrupt Tevinter slavers

Bye bye Qunari, your take over plans are about to be ended.

 

Bye bye dwarves

Bye bye modern elves

Bye bye honest families

Bye bye good people

Bye bye animals

Bye bye everyone and everything there is

 

Welcome ancient elves!!



#171
solomon.kosin

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And what if Solas is wrong that "our people" will die? His goal right now is to destroy the veil so that modern elves could return all their power and abilities and as i suspect to rebuild crossroads and other parts of elven history.

As i understand there were people in Thedas before the veil was created (ancient tevinters). Interesting how veil affected them? Maybe he is considering dying out of all modern people as an extreme that could possibly happen so that IQ better be prepared.

I also think that returning of magic will result into more mages born or maybe even some will gain these abilities (just imagine Cullen start shooting firebols=)). That could result in mass desrtuctions and inner wars, which will lead to dying out, but maybe not (i'm optimist)

#172
Mevanna

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Also nugs.


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#173
Stark777

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Hey, his plans may not have worked, but at least he did something.

 

The Veil may have been pretty bad, but as Solas said, all the alternatives would have been even worse. We weren't there, so we may have to take his word for it. ^^

 

 

So he created the Veil and destroyed his entire world just to imprison the Evanuris, and now he wants to destroy the Veil he created and release the evil Evanuris again... and he says that it will be fine because he's gonna take care of them.... which he couldn't do in the first place. And of course if his plan goes wrong (like always) and the Evanuris destroy him instead the world is pretty much f****d



#174
Asdrubael Vect

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Welcome ancient elves!!

they look and be much better than DA2 elves



#175
Asdrubael Vect

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So he created the Veil and destroyed his entire world just to imprison the Evanuris, and now he wants to destroy the Veil he created and release the evil Evanuris again... and he says that it will be fine because he's gonna take care of them.... which he couldn't do in the first place. And of course if his plan goes wrong (like always) and the Evanuris destroy him instead the world is pretty much f****d

Elgarnan will return and he will decide Thedas destiny


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