250 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

What's the reason to let the Chargers die?

 

- A bull that betrays you?

- Possibility of an alliance with the qunari which is irrelevant anyways because hostilities between the two of you erupt anyways?

- A arguably bad staff schematic that you can now sync with the golden nug?

 

Idk it just feels like there isn't a reason to not make Bull Tal Vashoth, where previously there was. 

 

It feels like the connor/isolde/mages choice, where there is clearly a right choice. I like ambiguity. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something that other people are seeing. Do you honestly see yourself sacrificing the chargers in future playthroughs? 

[Peekimon]

Never did and never will, how could you've been that cold hearted? O.O poor krem :'(

[robertthebard]

I never saw the reason to do it in the first place. An alliance with a largely absent power vs people that are "right here". Of course, I never fell prey to that infatuation with the Qunari over all, either.

[-Severian-]

I chose the Qun over the Chargers this playthrough, and am incredibly glad Bull betrayed me. I'm over the moon that Bioware finally decided to have a real consequence for a character's personal arc - it makes perfect sense, and it's so coldly done that it works fantastically.

 

I'll do it again. The chance to learn more about the Qunari through the Alliance, the intelligence reports you receive, the respect the Inquisitor earns amongst the Qun, and the fact that you're the first alliance the Qunari have made in their history? That all matters, it's important. It sets precedents for the future that might allow a peaceful solution to the Qunari problem. It's a real political step.

 

In exchange for a group of mercenaries I don't particularly care for? Absolutely. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand. I like Krem well enough, and the loss of Iron Bull now is definitely rough, but it all makes sense. I'm sacrificing for the possibility of a bigger future, learning more about a very dangerous group in Thedas and possibly laying the bedrock for future negotiations. I'm fine with having to sacrifice for that - it's what Inqusition was about.

[robertthebard]

I chose the Qun over the Chargers this playthrough, and am incredibly glad Bull betrayed me. I'm over the moon that Bioware finally decided to have a real consequence for a character's personal arc - it makes perfect sense, and it's so coldly done that it works fantastically.
 
I'll do it again. The chance to learn more about the Qunari through the Alliance, the intelligence reports you receive, the respect the Inquisitor earns amongst the Qun, and the fact that you're the first alliance the Qunari have made in their history? That all matters, it's important. It sets precedents for the future that might allow a peaceful solution to the Qunari problem. It's a real political step.
 
In exchange for a group of mercenaries I don't particularly care for? Absolutely. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand. I like Krem well enough, and the loss of Iron Bull now is definitely rough, but it all makes sense. I'm sacrificing for the possibility of a bigger future, learning more about a very dangerous group in Thedas and possibly laying the bedrock for future negotiations. I'm fine with having to sacrifice for that - it's what Inqusition was about.

Heh, yeah that peaceful resolution of the Qunari problem worked out really well in Tresspasser.

[KaiserShep]

I got the impression from talking to Gat that an alliance with the Qun isn't really an alliance per se. But I've seen no reason throughout the entirety of the series to put any faith in their organizations to be lasting allies. Even though it's a bit of metagaming on my part, my Marcher inquisitor probably heard all kinds of hubbub about the oxmen ransacking Kirkwall for a crappy book, and they continually prove word of their being fanatics correct. I didn't even think twice about letting the dreadnought die.

[TobiTobsen]

I'll do it again. The chance to learn more about the Qunari through the Alliance, the intelligence reports you receive, the respect the Inquisitor earns amongst the Qun, and the fact that you're the first alliance the Qunari have made in their history? That all matters, it's important. It sets precedents for the future that might allow a peaceful solution to the Qunari problem. It's a real political step.

 

The only "peaceful" way any of this will end is when all of Thedas submits to the Qun. Qunari don't do alliances. Sten himself, who is now one of the three leaders of the Qunari, told you so. Any agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on, because the Qunari turn on you the second they see a chance to bring you and the rest of the world to heel under the Qun.

[actionhero112]

I got the impression from talking to Gat that an alliance with the Qun isn't really an alliance per se. But I've seen no reason throughout the entirety of the series to put any faith in their organizations to be lasting allies. Even though it's a bit of metagaming on my part, my Marcher inquisitor probably heard all kinds of hubbub about the oxmen ransacking Kirkwall for a crappy book, and they continually prove word of their being fanatics correct. I didn't even think twice about letting the dreadnought die.

Kinda my point.

 

In a decision that most people were already leaning towards saving the chargers, with the addition of the revelations in trespasser, I don't see why they even made it a choice.

 

Usually I go with the reasoning that it sets a precedent for future negotiations and prevents possible hostilities on some of my inquisitors. However, knowing that conflict is inevitable certainly takes a lot of wind out of that argument. 

 

It's a faux choice. There is one correct decision as I see it. That doesn't really increase the replayability factor for me. 

[ZombiePopper]

I chose the Qun over the Chargers this playthrough, and am incredibly glad Bull betrayed me. I'm over the moon that Bioware finally decided to have a real consequence for a character's personal arc - it makes perfect sense, and it's so coldly done that it works fantastically.

I'll do it again. The chance to learn more about the Qunari through the Alliance, the intelligence reports you receive, the respect the Inquisitor earns amongst the Qun, and the fact that you're the first alliance the Qunari have made in their history? That all matters, it's important. It sets precedents for the future that might allow a peaceful solution to the Qunari problem. It's a real political step.

In exchange for a group of mercenaries I don't particularly care for? Absolutely. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand. I like Krem well enough, and the loss of Iron Bull now is definitely rough, but it all makes sense. I'm sacrificing for the possibility of a bigger future, learning more about a very dangerous group in Thedas and possibly laying the bedrock for future negotiations. I'm fine with having to sacrifice for that - it's what Inqusition was about.

^exactly.
I've got "cold" Inqy files and "warm" Inqy files.
From what I've seen in vids, it fits perfectly-for me anyway.

[Arisugawa]

I got the impression from talking to Gat that an alliance with the Qun isn't really an alliance per se. But I've seen no reason throughout the entirety of the series to put any faith in their organizations to be lasting allies. Even though it's a bit of metagaming on my part, my Marcher inquisitor probably heard all kinds of hubbub about the oxmen ransacking Kirkwall for a crappy book, and they continually prove word of their being fanatics correct. I didn't even think twice about letting the dreadnought die.

Why did your Marcher Inky decide to take on the quest at all then? Seems like they would have refused it.

[-Severian-]

The only "peaceful" way any of this will end is when all of Thedas submits to the Qun. Qunari don't do alliances. Sten himself, who is now one of the three leaders of the Qunari, told you so. Any agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on, because the Qunari turn on you the second they see a chance to bring you and the rest of the world to heel under the Qun.

 

They just did? That's the whole point of my post?

 

When Sten says it, it's true when he says it - the Qunari don't do alliances. Until now. They made one with the Inqusition - one more way I've made history. It's the first time, ever, the Qunari have agreed to work with someone else. Maybe it'll mean nothing, maybe it won't help us solve anything. But it might - this is new territory for the Qunari and I'm damned if I'll throw away that potential for growth because of Krem and friends. Maybe I made the wrong decision - I'm sure we'll know in future games - but I'll make it again for the same reasons. It's important.

[9TailsFox]

Not for me. I think it was done perfect. It make sense he betray Inquisitor if he is Qunari. And what you talking is metagaming, and i don't care about metagaming.

[katerinafm]

It doesn't ruin it, it just shows that there is a major consequence to you doing it (or not doing it at all).

[CoM Solaufein]

His betrayal cuts deep, since I liked him. He's a soldier, he understands sacrifices have to be made which is why I sacrifice the Chargers. Plus I'm keeping him on the straight and narrow and to accomplish his duty for the Qun. The character I'm using first in this DLC romanced him, she will look forward to that final confrontation.

[Stark777]

Well, at least for me now there is a clear good choice, and that is making The Bull Tal Vashoth. It doesn´t make sense to let the Chargers die now that we know that The Iron Bull will betray you if you choose that option.

 

 

So yes, there is no ambiguity in Iron Bull's personal quest now for me. Only one clear good choice 

[ElementalFury106]

I'm very glad BioWare went this route with Bull. This is real consequence, unlike the other major decisions of the game you're not always going to get the most desirable outcome based upon your choices.

 

Dragon Age and Mass Effect have both missed the mark when it comes to "choices with real consequence." And while Bull's betrayal certainly isn't as fleshed out and well done as it could've been, it was definitely a step in the right direction imo.

 

There is no "correct" choice to make. Bull staying loyal to you does not imply you made a "correct" choice, nor does him betraying you imply that you made the "wrong" choice. It's not black and white. 

 

If you encourage the alliance, Bull is cruelly reminded of who he is, what his true intentions are, and what he stands for. He is acting accordingly and I'm glad BioWare hasn't compromised his character in doing this. This is excellent character development and evolution.

 

While I have my issues with Bull as a companion myself, I really do respect his personal battle with his identity, and I'm glad that the direction we steer actually does make a difference in his life, as well as our own (speaking of our Inquisitors).

 

Btw, to anyone who sacrificed the Chargers just to get that Archon Staff schematic, that is extremely petty. Practical, but petty. It's disrespectful to the decision itself.

 

One final point: if I continue to do playthroughs in the future, I won't let this foreseen knowledge of Bull's betrayal influence my decision in the slightest regarding his personal quest. Decisions should be made organically by the player and in alignment with the morals/philosophy of your Inquisitor.

[sunnydxmen]

sounds very stupid to have alliance with qunari that they very well may not keep. its not even 100 percent thing its pretty obvious a war with the qunari is going to happen no matter what very stupid in my imo.

[mikeymoonshine]

I actually think It improved it by giving a more interesting outcome but I agree that there should have been better incentive to ally with the the Qun. If that dreadnaught had actually been useful or if you had gotten troops or something that had some kind of meaningful story outcome it would have been great. That's an issue with the base game though. I think the DLC actually improved upon that by giving a meaningful outcome to that choice, despite it being a very one sided/obvious which is the right decision kinda choice to begin with. 

 

The base game had issues with choices, that was one of ,my biggest complaints. They said in game choices would be meaningful and have different outcomes but many of them did not have much other than a slightly different war table outcome. Lets hope the next game does better.  

[Ryzaki]

There was never any reason to do it in the first place. Bull Sten (my bad) tells you himself the qunari don't have allies. They have people they can use for the moment who they'll betray as soon as possible. Just because you refuse to see the writing on the wall wasn't his fault.

 

The Qunari's mission is literally to consume everyone. And they use brainwashing and war to do it. They're pretty much the Chantry but more obnoxious and vile. I don't see how anyone would see them not betraying you at the nearest opportunity.

[NoForgiveness]

1) I don't metagame.
2) I treat the qunari like people from another country, not monsters that need to be destroyed. Meaning I'm there to defend against them, not actively kill them or let them be killed.
3) At the time the alliance was good for the relationship between thedas and par vollen. I wasn't expecting it to last but for that moment it was good for people to see it. Though now I suspect the qunari just **** all over said relationship.

Hmmm.. that it? That might be it.

[Scofield]

A brutal n realistic choice that actually matters and turns out to actually be the right choice, will never happen

 

Only time i can mind BioWare doing something like that was suicide mission in me2 an even then you need to be realistic to know the only reason it happened was cause of renegade choices, so basically no choice since being renegade basically meant u failed the game at the end

 

Im prob wrong tbh (always am) but for me the choices in any BioWare game are really no brainer choices, it is a illusion of choice nothing more, unless your plain suicidal

 

I pick a BioWare game up one day where the choice n consequence of that choice take serious thinking but in the meantime i will continue to just click the obvious "paragon" option an know for a certainty it will be the right choice

[Mr.House]

Well, at least for me now there is a clear good choice, and that is making The Bull Tal Vashoth. It doesn´t make sense to let the Chargers die now that we know that The Iron Bull will betray you if you choose that option.

 

 

So yes, there is no ambiguity in Iron Bull's personal quest now for me. Only one clear good choice 

Your Inquisitor does not know that, stop metagaming.

[Mr.House]

A brutal n realistic choice that actually matters and turns out to actually be the right choice, will never happen

 

Only time i can mind BioWare doing something like that was suicide mission in me2 an even then you need to be realistic to know the only reason it happened was cause of renegade choices, so basically no choice since being renegade basically meant u failed the game at the end

 

Im prob wrong tbh (always am) but for me the choices in any BioWare game are really no brainer choices, it is a illusion of choice nothing more, unless your plain suicidal

 

I pick a BioWare game up one day where the choice n consequence of that choice take serious thinking but in the meantime i will continue to just click the obvious "paragon" option an know for a certainty it will be the right choice

Bull betraying you is realistic.

[Dabrikishaw]

What's the reason to let the Chargers die?

 

- A arguably bad staff schematic that you can now sync with the golden nug?

 

This was always the reason I never sided with the Qun after my first time doing so. 

 

That being said, There's always a reason to ally with the Qunari and sacrifice the Chargers. I for one like that Iron Bull can die if you do so.

[Scofield]

Bull betraying you is realistic.

But he never, he told you he was a spy and you knew he was Qun, doing the charger quest and letting them die reaffirms his commitment to the qun, it is obvious he is Qun, that is the choice, he stays Qun or he does not, it is the chargers you betray not bull, hence why the Inky should never have had that decision, it should have been bulls not ours, then after HE makes that decision and only then have you or anyone else the right to say he betrayed you but not before, if YOU let the chargers die, you betray not only them but the "person" bull was trying to be

 

Bull never betrayed the Inquisition, you betrayed him making the wrong choice