250 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Bulls betrayal DOES confirm Vidasala was sanctioned.

[Bigdoser]

Bulls betrayal DOES confirm Vidasala was sanctioned.

Pretty much and if the plan goes south they can go just oooh that was a rogue sect we had NOTHING to do with that! Same thing happened in Kirkwall. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 As I said in that other thread, Bull turning against the Inquisitor is the only memorable moment his character has to offer, IMO. If anything, this DLC made me more likely to choose the alliance (and it was already my preferred choice).

 

 

I do have a couple Inquisitors who would choose the Chargers, I just have not gotten around to them yet...

[Beren Von Ostwick]

What's the reason to let the Chargers die?

 

- A bull that betrays you?

- Possibility of an alliance with the qunari which is irrelevant anyways because hostilities between the two of you erupt anyways?

- A arguably bad staff schematic that you can now sync with the golden nug?

 

Idk it just feels like there isn't a reason to not make Bull Tal Vashoth, where previously there was. 

 

It feels like the connor/isolde/mages choice, where there is clearly a right choice. I like ambiguity. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something that other people are seeing. Do you honestly see yourself sacrificing the chargers in future playthroughs? 

 

You're allowing information you have as the player overly influence the decisions your Inky would make if you take those things into account.  That's what you're missing.

 

[Ariella]

In a choice between people I know, I fought beside, got drunk beside and a foreign power who has made vague promises and hinged their alliance on an incredibly stupid plan with no fall back position... I pick the people I know every time.

I wish I had the option of either calling in the Blades to take out the mages, or throwing Gatt off the battlements. Maybe sending his head to Par Vollan. Especially since he practically objectifies the Chargers. Just like many a slave owner would. And the end is never justified by the means.

[Deebo305]

Incidently if Vivienne is Divine and the Alliance was previously formed, it turns out the Qunari reach out to her regarding the newly escalated war with Tervinter

So I wouldn't throw them completely under the bus but highly doubtful anyone would trust them again, hell she even mentions an Exalted March on them after Bull betrayal

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I think High approval Qunari Bull will still stay with you by the end of the game (Though I'm not 100% sure).

 

Still, I would have liked to siding with the Qunari to have more benefits in the vanilla game then just war table missions.

 

An alliance with a country over a team of mercenary should have major advantages in the game.

[Patchwork]

It was always clear which option the game wanted you to take i.e. save the Chargers, the dlc just reinforces it.

 

But imo the alliance never needed to be more than it was; a convenient team-up to destroy a mutual enemy and if Bull wants to go back to the qun then that's his choice.

[Rekkampum]

 As I said in that other thread, Bull turning against the Inquisitor is the only memorable moment his character has to offer, IMO. If anything, this DLC made me more likely to choose the alliance (and it was already my preferred choice).

 

 

I do have a couple Inquisitors who would choose the Chargers, I just have not gotten around to them yet...

 

He's had plenty of memorable moments - I liked his chess game with Solas and his reactions during some of our missions, etc.- but most of them probably *ahem* happened off-screen. Like one involving the War table and another hanging from chandeliers.

[Ryzaki]

Players: We want choices to mean something

Bioware: *Makes Leliana's development dependent on three seemingly meaningless converstations throughout the game, and gives a huge consequence to the outcome of Bull's quest.*

Players: We hate these choices and their consequences.

 

To be fair Leliana is kind of absurd because that choice is early on in the game and to be frank letting a spy run loose is absurd. If it was a choice between a quick clean death and torturing him for information then I could see the whole it leading to her blood in the streets thing but as it is...it's a wut moment.

[Illyria]

To be fair Leliana is kind of absurd because that choice is early on in the game and to be frank letting a spy run loose is absurd. If it was a choice between a quick clean death and torturing him for information then I could see the whole it leading to her blood in the streets thing but as it is...it's a wut moment.

 

That's a good point.  But I still liked that Leliana's development relied on past converstations.  It felt more natural than hardening converstation in DAO.

 

Off topic: is that Yarne's proposal in your signature?

[Dr. rotinaj]

Players: We want choices to mean something

Bioware: *Makes Leliana's development dependent on three seemingly meaningless converstations throughout the game, and gives a huge consequence to the outcome of Bull's quest.*

Players: We hate these choices and their consequences.

 

Don't forget to throw in the selection of Divine.

[Ryzaki]

That's a good point.  But I still liked that Leliana's development relied on past converstations.  It felt more natural than hardening converstation in DAO.

 

Off topic: is that Yarne's proposal in your signature?

 

I do like it but it could've used more tweaking. Bull on the other hand could be seen coming from a mile away. Even his love cutscenes are more subdued if he's still qunari vs tal vasoth. The writing was on the wall.

 

Oh god it is. He's such a dork I love him.

[Drasanil]

It was always clear which option the game wanted you to take i.e. save the Chargers, the dlc just reinforces it.

 

I beg to differ, it's pretty clear the game wants you to sacrifice the chargers. The fact the game actually lets you kill IB if you do reinforces it.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

How about we agree on, "It's clear the game wanted to give you a choice, and that choice mattered in more ways than one."

[Natenife]

I am *so* glad I let the Chargers die now that I know I get to kill Iron Bull. *Hated* that character.

[leaguer of one]

 As I said in that other thread, Bull turning against the Inquisitor is the only memorable moment his character has to offer, IMO. If anything, this DLC made me more likely to choose the alliance (and it was already my preferred choice).

 

 

...Some people like watching the world burn.

[9TailsFox]

Pretty much and if the plan goes south they can go just oooh that was a rogue sect we had NOTHING to do with that! Same thing happened in Kirkwall. 

Qunari after plan failed.

[Wahed89]

Consequences of a choice don't have to be equally balanced though. Sometimes there is a "right" decision and I think that's a perfect example.

[Kantr]

If you don't get his personal quest and the chargers are alive. He still betrays you
 
This post is a good way of explaining why Bull betrays you if he's Qun http://shallow-betwe...st/128769818344

[Estel Lavellan]

What's the reason to let the Chargers die?

 

- A bull that betrays you?

- Possibility of an alliance with the qunari which is irrelevant anyways because hostilities between the two of you erupt anyways?

- A arguably bad staff schematic that you can now sync with the golden nug?

 

Idk it just feels like there isn't a reason to not make Bull Tal Vashoth, where previously there was. 

 

It feels like the connor/isolde/mages choice, where there is clearly a right choice. I like ambiguity. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something that other people are seeing. Do you honestly see yourself sacrificing the chargers in future playthroughs? 

 

In the real world, are you able to see all actions and consequences in retrospect? Sure, you as a player who's done 'playthroughs' know exactly what will eventually turn out. But what of the inquisitor at the time of the quest? There's no 'playthrough' and 'Trespasser dlc' for her, and making choices on her behalf as an omniscient player who knows the backstory and what will happen in the future...That's simply character breaking. Making present decisions based on knowledge of future plot is just...wrong, especially for a choice-based game like DAI. At that time the inquisitor should only see a choice between personal friendship and an unprecedented alliance with the Qunari. And I think even though you discovered what happened in the dlc, on future playthroughs you should still do an in-character choice as the inquisitor, not as a player.

[AntiChri5]

Bulls betrayal DOES confirm Vidasala was sanctioned.

How so?

[BabyPuncher]

There seems to be quite a misunderstanding in his thread between choice and meaningful choice.

 

Any idiot writer can make a choice have a big impact. That's the easiest thing in the world.

 

Making a choice that is thematically meaningful is not so simple.

[adorkable-panda]

I honestly don't understand how people who 'liked' bull are suddenly upset when he betrays them... you kinda sactificed his friends and pushed him more towards to Qun, how could you not think that could have any real consequences. Honestly, in the vanilla game, I always thought it was weird how Bull acted the same if you ended up killing the chargers and the romance continued. No matter how much I play I can never sacrifice the chargers, unless I'm playing my salty, pragmatic assquisitor. 

[Wulfram]

Players: We want choices to mean something
Bioware: *Makes Leliana's development dependent on three seemingly meaningless converstations throughout the game, and gives a huge consequence to the outcome of Bull's quest.*
Players: We hate these choices and their consequences.

Well, Leliana's thing was stupid and badly written in a number of ways - and considering Hardened Leliana in Trespasser is quite different from Princess Stabbity in the quest in DAI, Bioware probably realised they screwed up a bit.

Whereas Iron Bull made sense. It might be criticised in a wider sense that I think the game skews towards picking the obvious "nice" choices, but taken as itself its fine. And saving the Dreadnought is part of my "canon" playthrough, so this isn't an "I'm OK with this bad consequence because it doesn't affect me" thing.