250 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRevanchist]

"With the Dragon's Breath disrupted, the Qunari retreated back to the North. The Ben-Hassrath disavowed the Viddasala's actions. They assured Divine Victoria that, as the Inquisition now served her personally, they consider their alliance to apply to her and the Chantry."

 

Or...

 

"With the Dragon's Breath disrupted, the Qunari retreated back to the North. The Ben-Hassrath disavowed the Viddasala's actions. They assured Divine Victoria that, with the Inquisition disbanded, they consider their alliance to apply to her and the Chantry."

 

These are the Slides you get from making the Alliance. Just figured I would leave this here for the discussion.

[Darkstarr11]

"With the Dragon's Breath disrupted, the Qunari retreated back to the North. The Ben-Hassrath disavowed the Viddasala's actions. They assured Divine Victoria that, as the Inquisition now served her personally, they consider their alliance to apply to her and the Chantry."

 

Or...

 

"With the Dragon's Breath disrupted, the Qunari retreated back to the North. The Ben-Hassrath disavowed the Viddasala's actions. They assured Divine Victoria that, with the Inquisition disbanded, they consider their alliance to apply to her and the Chantry."

 

These are the Slides you get from making the Alliance. Just figured I would leave this here for the discussion.

 

The Ben-Hassrath seem like the IMF of the Qun.  Though it seems Viddasala didn't have the smile or the ability to do a perfect run...

 

I like that you find the letter from Josie in their HQ.  The one denouncing the Viddasala as an outside extremist priest?  You see, THIS is why messages are supposed to self destruct...left around, they can be incriminating!  So in the end, she failed, and got Disavowed.  If she had succeeded...now, THAT is where it gets fun.  Wanna bet she'd be up for promotion?

[TheRevanchist]

The Ben-Hassrath seem like the IMF of the Qun.  Though it seems Viddasala didn't have the smile or the ability to do a perfect run...

 

I like that you find the letter from Josie in their HQ.  The one denouncing the Viddasala as an outside extremist priest?  You see, THIS is why messages are supposed to self destruct...left around, they can be incriminating!  So in the end, she failed, and got Disavowed.  If she had succeeded...now, THAT is where it gets fun.  Wanna bet she'd be up for promotion?

 

Or maybe...just maybe...follow me on this...maybe that message was genuine, and she intercepted it, to make sure we never get it. Not saying I believe it, just saying that...it's possible.

[Mr.House]

Or maybe...just maybe...follow me on this...maybe that message was genuine, and she intercepted it, to make sure we never get it. Not saying I believe it, just saying that...it's possible.

Then Bull would not have followed her orders as she is not his superior. He followed her orders which means he knew this was sanctioned.

[TheRevanchist]

Then Bull would not have followed her orders as she is not his superior. He followed her orders which means he knew this was sanctioned.

 

I could argue the whole "He asked his superiors and they claimed ignorance" bit, which of course could be countered with the "He's lying out his ass" bit. But there is always a chance he never got word from his direct superiors, and made an assumption based off the mentality of the Qun that she was sanctioned. 

[Mr.House]

I could argue the whole "He asked his superiors and they claimed ignorance" bit, which of course could be countered with the "He's lying out his ass" bit. But there is always a chance he never got word from his direct superiors, and made an assumption based off the mentality of the Qun that she was sanctioned. 

Then he would have asked, instead soon as the order is given he responds. Everything points that he knew full well this was sanctioned.

[Poledo]

I could argue the whole "He asked his superiors and they claimed ignorance" bit, which of course could be countered with the "He's lying out his ass" bit. But there is always a chance he never got word from his direct superiors, and made an assumption based off the mentality of the Qun that she was sanctioned. 

 

Or maybe, despite all their claims of discipline - it's personal - even if on some level he understood - he still resents losing his men.

[TheRevanchist]

Or maybe, despite all their claims of discipline - it's personal - even if on some level he understood - he still resents losing his men.

 

That is also possible. Maybe he did know it was BS, and just didn't care, because you killed The Chargers. That would be an interesting angle.

[The Baconer]

Or maybe...just maybe...follow me on this...maybe that message was genuine, and she intercepted it, to make sure we never get it. Not saying I believe it, just saying that...it's possible.

 

Effectively, what difference would it have made if we received the letter anyway? They might have disavowed her actions in writing, but they sure as **** weren't actually doing anything about it. The Inquisition did all the work in stopping the Viddasala's plan, and we were against the clock in addition. Also, note the line:

 

With the Dragon's Breath disrupted, the Qunari retreated back to the North.

 

It's just like Kirkwall. No real action will be made until the pieces have all fallen into place, one way or another. If their so-called rogue agent's plans fail, they will always claim it was unsanctioned, but if they succeed, don't expect any court-martial. I would actually surmise that the Viddasala's play had more official backing from the very start.

[Illegitimus]

Then Bull would not have followed her orders as she is not his superior. He followed her orders which means he knew this was sanctioned.

 

Given that the Qunari normally don't second guess their superiors a high ranking Qunari secret policeman could get away with quite a lot before anyone would notice that she had gone off the reservation.  It's a who watches the watchmen situation.  But of course if that was happening they would be taking action having noticed it.  

[MKDAWUSS]

Then Bull would not have followed her orders as she is not his superior. He followed her orders which means he knew this was sanctioned.

Or he joined the rebels.

[Eterna]

So many vindicated bleeding hearts in this thread. 

 

It seems to me like a very high proportion of players wish for a playthrough in which only good feels occur and their Inquisitor spends the entirety of the game kissing ass to insure his/her followers like them. THese playthroughs must be completely devoid of drama and character development, so boring. No wonder people say the Inquisitor is a boring protagonist, the players themselves make it so. 

[vertigomez]

Or maybe, despite all their claims of discipline - it's personal - even if on some level he understood - he still resents losing his men.

I like this idea.

Not 100% on board with it, as I think it's just as likely he was heartbroken enough that the re-educators successfully brainwashed him, but I think it's possible that his anger at the loss of the Chargers slowly festered over time, and "loyalty to the Qun" is just a convenient excuse to whack the Inquisitor.

(I don't really think so, though. Cole said he felt no pain, and I don't think he'd go after Dorian or a romanced Inquisitor or anyone he's truly good friends with if he wasn't firmly Qunari.)

[Cobra's_back]

The only "peaceful" way any of this will end is when all of Thedas submits to the Qun. Qunari don't do alliances. Sten himself, who is now one of the three leaders of the Qunari, told you so. Any agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on, because the Qunari turn on you the second they see a chance to bring you and the rest of the world to heel under the Qun.

 

I agree. Still the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a valid reason to join forces for a short time. I have two playthroughs  that are my favorite. The tragic Elf and the Human rogue. The tragic elf gets betrayed by Iron Bull and should have expected it. The Human rogue keeps the chargers.

 

I love seeing the Elf suffer. Oops my Elf mage stepped in it again!

 

Role playing should have variety.

[Rekkampum]

He fights Qunari for the entire quest, giving you the illusion that despite reaffirming his loyalty to the Qun, he stands and fights with the Inquisition. Then he turns on you during a moment where you are immensely out-numbered. I'd consider that a betrayal. True to the translation of his name "Hisraad; the Keeper of Illusions"

 

He fights them under the pretense that they aren't officially working under the Qun, seeing as the two were allied previously. Of course, once the Viddasala confirms otherwise, he turns on you.

[The Baconer]

Even better, in endings with the Qunari "alliance", it is rumored that they even ask the Divine to assist them in their invasion of Tevinter.

 

"We almost had you blown to smithereens... but, water under the bridge. Wanna help us get one step closer to ruling over you?"

 

They just can't stop giving me reasons to annihilate them.

[Boost32]

Even better, in endings with the Qunari "alliance", it is rumored that they even ask the Divine to assist them in their invasion of Tevinter.

"We almost had you blown to smithereens... but, water under the bridge. Wanna help us get one step closer to ruling over you?"

They just can't stop giving me reasons to annihilate them.

The funny part is, in my playthrough, Vivienne is the Divine and after Hissrad turned on us she said she would call a Exalted March on the Qunari and when I saw the epilogue I laughed so hard. The whole "We tried to kill you, but since its failed, we didnt really try, it was a rogue agent and you totally should help us destroy Tevinter. Its not like we will turn on you... Again" is hilarious.

[Rekkampum]

The funny part is, in my playthrough, Vivienne is the Divine and after Hissrad turned on us she said she would call a Exalted March on the Qunari and when I saw the epilogue I laughed so hard. The whole "We tried to kill you, but since its failed, we didnt really try, it was a rogue agent and you totally should help us destroy Tevinter. Its not like we will turn on you... Again" is hilarious.

 

I remember that! She's divine in one of my playthroughs also.

[Nixou]

The whole "We tried to kill you, but since its failed, we didnt really try, it was a rogue agent and you totally should help us destroy Tevinter. Its not like we will turn on you... Again" is hilarious.

 

 

Your mission Vida, should you accept it...

[zambingo]

Iron Bull's PQ can be the Qunari asking the Inquisitor what lie they'd like to believe for Bull's cover. He is a spy afterall. Whether always planned BTS by the writers or they decided to go here it all still has logic to it... best cover ever btw, "Hey, I'm a spy. Won't spy on you though, bud. And to prove it tell me what you'd prefer to believe I am."

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

(Sorry, haven't read past page one. Apologies if this has already been addressed.)

 

One can easily keep Bull loyal to the Inquisitor without metagaming. For instance, I believe getting a Qunari to abandon the Qun is a major victory for the other races of Thedas and a minor blow against the Qun (but every little bit helps). We can play characters who believe this, and as a result, will stress the value of friendship over mindlessness, thus giving the Qunari one fewer drone to use and abuse.

 

Even if you dislike Bull (like I do; no offense, Bull-lovers ), you can use this as the reason to keep him as a "friend." Otherwise, if you love the Chargers (and want to recruit them) but loathe Bull entirely, you can just avoid doing his personal quest altogether to keep the Chargers alive, but kill Bull in the DLC! Either way, you'd avoid a phony alliance in the end. Not that our characters who chose this would know it turned out to be phony.

 

On that note, our characters know all about what happened in Kirkwall. It's not metagaming to be skeptical of the Qunari and their supposed alliance. Especially when their Ben-Hassrath agent tells you upon meeting him that he spies for the Qunari. It's also not metagaming to value the lives of the Chargers (if your Inquisitor admires them) over brainwashed oxmen they've never met before (individuals b4 drones). Keep in mind that the Qun readily throws away lives for the littlest reasons, as if they mean nothing. Letting a dreadnought sink is likely not a serious loss to them, though I'm sure they'll use any excuse to invade the south.

 

Just my take on it.

 

Still wish there was an option to recruit Bull and the Chargers as agents instead of automatically having Bull in our Inner Circle. I love the Chargers, just not Bull himself.

[leaguer of one]

 

I got the impression that the writers intended portray the Qunari as politically divided between Doves and Hawks, with Bull being by temperament a Dove forced to answer to members of the hawkish faction until it eventually reached the breaking point, and the Doves being ill-served by the fact that their society lacks a formal diplomatic corp (therefore interactions with foreign powers are done solely through their military and spies, themselves dominated by the Hawks, which makes peaceful negotiations difficult)

 

No...You can't just see he's lying to your face? That his name in the qun.

[Tython]

I thought Bull's betrayal was a joke until he turned red for me to attack. I mean the guy saw me take down dragons, demons and Coryfus- an immortal magister. Why in the world would he think he had a chance? It showed how dumb a Quinari can be and was completely out of character for him. I mean the moment we recruited him he knew he was being watched by Leliana and her spies. Was Bull that good or was Leliana that bad? Seriously, kind of silly but I knew what bioware was shooting for even if I didn't agree with the way the story went.

 

Problem is, any Quinari character in any future games will be killed on sight regardless of how nice they are or if Bioware put them in to be an ally.

[leaguer of one]

Have you seen the Chantry ? Or Tevinter ? They all want to control the world and submit it to their vision and values. The Qun is the least horrible of the three by a far margin. And yes, everything in the Trespasser is illogical when it comes to the Qun. Even them must know that you don't launch a war against powers so far away from your home, especially not when it will ensure that everyone in Thedas will ally against you, when you can use Tevinter's loss of reputation because of the Venatori to attack him with a greater chance of Southern Thedas saying "to hell with the Vints".

The chantry and tevinter are divided in their own factions in each with their own goals per faction. The Qun is not. The chantry and tevinter fight within themselves on what to do, where to go and how to do it. The qun is a single minded faction with a single goal who is now learning to be more flexible. And their actions are not illogical. they made a place to take down every noble and ruling house  south of Tevinter. Take the time to under stand what that mean. It's means the south would have no leader to organize any resistance to an invasion and no way to spread the word once it happens because it's too late. This would of be an invasion with no resistance. If this plan succeeded there would be no rest of thedas to ally, it's would be just Tevinter.

 

Sorry but you're not using logic here.

[SwobyJ]

 

I got the impression that the writers intended portray the Qunari as politically divided between Doves and Hawks, with Bull being by temperament a Dove forced to answer to members of the hawkish faction until it eventually reached the breaking point, and the Doves being ill-served by the fact that their society lacks a formal diplomatic corp (therefore interactions with foreign powers are done solely through their military and spies, themselves dominated by the Hawks, which makes peaceful negotiations difficult)

 

 

I consider this as well.

 

I somewhat expect that when we actually go to Par Vollen it'll be dove-ish everywhere, except for the acceptance of potentially forced 'reeducation'.

 

Ticked off players seeing a Qunari society that really is mostly peaceful compared to the fighting elsewhere.

 

The Arishok in DA2 wasn't steadily disgusted with Kirkwall for no reason.

 

For the record I'm sooo very anti-Qun. But I still will not be surprised to see them live in a mostly peace by at least their standards and maybe compared to every other society.