250 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Or he joined the rebels.

Their are no rebels in the qun. they are not acting on there own. Not a group as anal as this.

[CDR Aedan Cousland]

I don't want to be preachy, but "peace" (and I use that term loosely) is not worth the sacrifice of personal freedom and the oppression of others. The Qun is decidedly worse than the Chantry and Tevinter.

[Nefla]

There are certain choices that I have never and would never make and letting the chargers die is one of them so

[leaguer of one]

I don't want to be preachy, but "peace" (and I use that term loosely) is not worth the sacrifice of personal freedom and the oppression of others. The Qun is decidedly worse than the Chantry and Tevinter.

If every one is making bad choices that causing the destruction of everything...i would have to disagree. And I'm not pro-qunari.

[Darkstarr11]

Or maybe...just maybe...follow me on this...maybe that message was genuine, and she intercepted it, to make sure we never get it. Not saying I believe it, just saying that...it's possible.

 

Interesting.  I mean, she was basically a spy.  IF she had gone rogue then she would want to keep tabs on her organization to see what they might be doing, and how to react to it.  Hmmmm...

 

Then Bull would not have followed her orders as she is not his superior. He followed her orders which means he knew this was sanctioned.

 

 

Or maybe, despite all their claims of discipline - it's personal - even if on some level he understood - he still resents losing his men.

 

Yeah, Bull could have actually made the offer TO her once he found out.  If he was back with the Qun, he'd have his contacts.  If you'd burned his team, and he found a way to burn you back...WHILE adhering to the Qun...two birds, right?

 

That is also possible. Maybe he did know it was BS, and just didn't care, because you killed The Chargers. That would be an interesting angle.

 

Very possible.  He WAS a bit of a death seeker, wasn't he?

[robertthebard]

The chantry and tevinter are divided in their own factions in each with their own goals per faction. The Qun is not. The chantry and tevinter fight within themselves on what to do, where to go and how to do it. The qun is a single minded faction with a single goal who is now learning to be more flexible. And their actions are not illogical. they made a place to take down every noble and ruling house  south of Tevinter. Take the time to under stand what that mean. It's means the south would have no leader to organize any resistance to an invasion and no way to spread the word once it happens because it's too late. This would of be an invasion with no resistance. If this plan succeeded there would be no rest of thedas to ally, it's would be just Tevinter.
 
Sorry but you're not using logic here.

I could be on board with this, really, I could, if it weren't for the fact that at the end of two games now it's been "They're a rogue faction"...

[Mr.House]

I could be on board with this, really, I could, if it weren't for the fact that at the end of two games now it's been "They're a rogue faction"...

To cover their asses after two failures, two that could have led to outright war while the Qun suffered a big loss (more so in Kirkwall)

[fizzypop]

Are you kidding me? There was never any reason to side with Qunari. Qunari are KNOWN for betraying. They have NO loyalty whatsoever if you aren't the Qun. Did no one talk to Sten or play DA2? I saw it coming a mile away. Besides all of that there were hints of a qunari invasion well before DAI.

[medusa_hair]

I didn't do Bull's quest.  I didn't like him much in personal conversation so I just never did it.  Thus, he betrayed me.  It was still a surprising twist though.  I guess I got used to having him hanging around the tavern and occasionally going out on expeditions with me.  He did say he was Ben-Hassrath right at the beginning - WE are the ones who forgot about that and started to let familiarity fool us into thinking that he was "one of us."

[leaguer of one]

I could be on board with this, really, I could, if it weren't for the fact that at the end of two games now it's been "They're a rogue faction"...

Except for the fact that the statement "rogue faction " is just a cover story. Sorry but that is a straight up lie.

[fizzypop]

Except for the fact that the statement "rogue faction " is just a cover story. Sorry but that is a straight up lie.

Yeah the Qunari leadership always claims that. They will lie to save face or to further manipulate. I really don't know why anyone excepts anything less. It is a smart military strat.

[Hurbster]

All this just reminds me how stupid and forced Bull's personal quest choices were anyway.

[Gold Dragon]

The first time I came upon this quest, I knew that there would be MAJOR consquences to it.  Without looking on the Wiki, or anything.

 

Also, that playthru was a Qun-hating (Tal-)Vashoth Mage (female) who "Seduced" Bull away from the Qun.  She counts it a minor victory.

[MageTarot]

If you sided with the Qunari it opened up two War Table missions that you won't get if you side with the Chargers. The first one is the Venatori Fire Ship (3 mission) chain and the second one is the Venatori Spymaster (6 mission) chain. Depending on your choices, you could net up to 300 influence as well as upgrades, weapons and an Amulet of Power between both mission chains.

 

Before Trespasser, losing the Chargers was pretty much the sole consequence of siding with the Qunari. Now it's more of a decision if Bull's loyalty is worth said 300 influence/upgrades/weapons/amulet.

[Arvaarad]

Before Trespasser, losing the Chargers was pretty much the sole consequence of siding with the Qunari.

 

That, and saving "the dreadnought Berethlok and its crew of one hundred souls".

 

Yeah, the triumvirate is shady as ever. Yes, their constant "they were acting without our approval"s are getting increasingly hard to swallow. I'm about 99% certain that their plan for invasion is to let "loose cannons" do their thing, disavowing them if they fail and throwing their weight behind them if they succeed.

 

But every power in Thedas has dodgy people in leadership, and every power in Thedas has ordinary folks just trying to deal with their BS. The people in the dreadnought aren't the dodgy leaders plotting invasion. They're folks, just like everyone else. Folks that are helping me deal with a Venatori plot. Folks that are depending on me for ground support.

 

I didn't share drinks with those folks. That doesn't make them less "real" than the seven friends I could save by throwing those one hundred folks under the bus. Saving the Chargers (and Bull) feels good, I don't deny it. But it's straight-up Solas math: got to save my people even if everyone else burns.

[denise12184]

It wasn't about the people on the dreadnought being less 'real', It was about the Ben-Hassrath acting like a bunch of morons from the beginning. The whole mission smelled like some kind of set-up they designed to test Bull. If it was a legitimate effort to broker an alliance, than the qunari were acting on bad intelligence and expected the Inquisition to pay the price. Nope. My inquisitor didn't look at her people as fodder. I feel bad about the dreadnought and all the people all on it. But at the end of the day, it was the Ben-Hassrath's mistakes that led to it. It's not even on the same page as Solas.

[Mr.House]

It wasn't about the people on the dreadnought being less 'real', It was about the Ben-Hassrath acting like a bunch of morons from the beginning. The whole mission smelled like some kind of set-up they designed to test Bull. If it was a legitimate effort to broker an alliance, than the qunari were acting on bad intelligence and expected the Inquisition to pay the price. Nope. My inquisitor didn't look at her people as fodder. I feel bad about the dreadnought and all the people all on it. But at the end of the day, it was the Ben-Hassrath's mistakes that led to it. It's not even on the same page as Solas.

Nah if it was Soals, the chargers would have died when the dreadnaught explodes.

[Darkstarr11]

Nah if it was Soals, the chargers would have died when the dreadnaught explodes.

 

Yes, but he would have felt bad about it.  Don't forget that part.

[leaguer of one]

Yes, but he would have felt bad about it.  Don't forget that part.

Sure, that always makes it better...Feeling bad about it.

 

*Kicks Puppy.

 

I'm not bad for doing that because I feel bad doing it.

[Nixou]

It wasn't about the people on the dreadnought being less 'real', It was about the Ben-Hassrath acting like a bunch of morons from the beginning. The whole mission smelled like some kind of set-up they designed to test Bull. If it was a legitimate effort to broker an alliance, than the qunari were acting on bad intelligence and expected the Inquisition to pay the price. Nope. My inquisitor didn't look at her people as fodder. I feel bad about the dreadnought and all the people all on it.

 

 

And if that was a set-up, then whoever among the triumvirate came up with is the real culprit for their deaths.

To go back to my Dove vs Hawks* pet theory, It's possible that Bull had become a pawn in the Qunari's version of the Game: the Doves were happy to let the Bas-friendly Ben-Hassrath play the mercenary with a golden heart, slowly improving Qunandar's reputation and increasing its soft power while the Hawks felt his behavior "polluted the Qun's purity of intent" or whatever: the set-up was the Hawks' idea: if the Chargers die, Bull gets re-educated allowing the hawkish faction to snatch him; if the Chargers are saved, Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth: regardless the Doves lose an asset

 

*And yes, that makes Dragon Age 2's second act the tale of an Hawk versus Hawke: don't thank me for the stupid pun.

[Darkstarr11]

Sure, that always makes it better...Feeling bad about it.

 

*Kick Puppy.

 

I'm not bad for doing that because I feel bad doing it.

 

Don't worry, you were probably doing it for the puppies own good.

 

 

'This hurts me more than it hurts you.'

 

Anyway, I wonder if there really were 100 souls aboard that vessel.  Would they inflate the numbers to get in a dig for guilt?  The loss sucks, but they were chess pieces. Wonder if they knew that?

[Nixou]

Anyway, I wonder if there really were 100 souls aboard that vessel.  Would they inflate the numbers to get in a dig for guilt?  The loss sucks, but they were chess pieces. Wonder if they knew that?

 

 

Thedas is supposed to be in a late middle age period.

 

We know from the codex that Dreadnoughts are twice as large than Tevinter galleys and manned by oarsmen.

Late medieval Genoese war galleys had crews of 150-180 men.

Chances are that there were a lot more than a hundred crew members aboard the Qunari Dreadnought.

[Talok]

Sided with the Qunari to save Denerim from burning. If it ends up being a non-issue in a future game, because this stuff often gets overlooked, I'll change my keep save to helping the chargers and move on with life.

[AntiChri5]

"Rogue faction" is really the wrong term, I think.

 

The qunari give senior agents who have to operate outside qunari territory a goal/focus, resources and a great deal of operational freedom. If they **** up in such a way that it leaves the qunari vulnerable, they can honestly say that they never ordered the action or approved the plans.

[Qun00]

Bull was a conflicted person before doing his personal quest.

He still cared about the Qun, but was becoming so loyal to the Inquisition that Gat even said some of the Qunari thought he was deserting.

Then you sacrifice the Chargers and he finally becomes full Qunari and 100% commited to his people.

His betrayal is only natural, really.