250 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiTobsen]

Sided with the Qunari to save Denerim from burning. If it ends up being a non-issue in a future game, because this stuff often gets overlooked, I'll change my keep save to helping the chargers and move on with life.

 

Funnily enough it seems like the whole Qunari alliance is the reason that stirrs the Venatori into action in the first place. Either that or the burning of Denerim simply isn't mentioned anywhere else, because the War Table is so damn disconnected from the rest of the game anyway.

 

"Rogue faction" is really the wrong term, I think.

 

The qunari give senior agents who have to operate outside qunari territory a goal/focus, resources and a great deal of operational freedom. If they **** up in such a way that it leaves the qunari vulnerable, they can honestly say that they never ordered the action or approved the plans.

 

Like spies, agents and special units in our world. The second they get captured nobody knows anything or has seen those people in their entire life.

[Darkstarr11]

Funnily enough it seems like the whole Qunari alliance is the reason that stirrs the Vantori into action in the first place. Either that or the burning of Denerim simply isn't mentioned anywhere else, because the War Table is so damn disconnected from the rest of the game anyway.

 

 

Like spies, agents and special units in our world. The second they get captured nobody knows anything or has seen those people in their entire life.

 

I always thought that.  If your two biggest enemies are teaming up, you go for broke.  The fire ship mission was their nuclear option, essentially.  They had no reason to play the card if you didn't ally with the Qun.  Since it wasn't mentioned in Trespasser (seriously, you'd think that would come up rather than Crestwood, right?) I figured it was resolved or never happened.  

 

Burn Notice, Mission: Impossible...they deal with spies who have the ground fall out from under them.  Sacrifice the agent for the cause, and all, right?

[Kurogane335]

It wasn't about the people on the dreadnought being less 'real', It was about the Ben-Hassrath acting like a bunch of morons from the beginning. The whole mission smelled like some kind of set-up they designed to test Bull. If it was a legitimate effort to broker an alliance, than the qunari were acting on bad intelligence and expected the Inquisition to pay the price. Nope. My inquisitor didn't look at her people as fodder. I feel bad about the dreadnought and all the people all on it. But at the end of the day, it was the Ben-Hassrath's mistakes that led to it. It's not even on the same page as Solas.

 

The morons were the Inquisition spies. They hadn't any news of the Red Lyrium deal in this region, and once the Ben-Hassrath came with informations, they didn't double checked them, just to be sure than a questionable "ally" wasn't playing them fool. The Qunari are not to blame for the death of the Chargers, the Inquisition management of its network of spies is.

 

I mean, it even happens in this day and age and it doesn't make it less stupid. I still remember how the French and Italian armies switched place in Afghanistan, with the latter telling the former that the region was cleared and secure. Less than one week later, the French army had lost at least a dozen of soldiers in an ambush. Mainly because they had believed the Italians without using their own resources to prove that what they were said was true.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Well it was to be expected from Iron Bull. He is Qunari and the Qunari have proven to be not to be trusted in the game (DA2, DA:I). Still I hoped that after being friends etc he wouldnt dare to betray friendship for 'religion'. 

Still i took him as party member for that mission but as soon as he betrayed me, game pause. Dorian froze him and then Bull was gone within 10 seconds.

 

If DA4 is out, Qunari face the same fate as Bull in my game.

[Arvaarad]

It wasn't about the people on the dreadnought being less 'real', It was about the Ben-Hassrath acting like a bunch of morons from the beginning. The whole mission smelled like some kind of set-up they designed to test Bull. If it was a legitimate effort to broker an alliance, than the qunari were acting on bad intelligence and expected the Inquisition to pay the price. Nope. My inquisitor didn't look at her people as fodder. I feel bad about the dreadnought and all the people all on it. But at the end of the day, it was the Ben-Hassrath's mistakes that led to it. It's not even on the same page as Solas.

If it's such a mistake, why do the mission? The way I see it, if my inquisitor truly distrusts the Qunari, they'll skip the mission entirely instead of making commitments they won't follow through on.

[Amirit]

Honestly, the only thing I want to know now is statistics - how many people saves Charges on their re-runs after Trespasser came out. Sadly, statistics is the one thing BW never gives away.

[berelinde]

If it's such a mistake, why do the mission? The way I see it, if my inquisitor truly distrusts the Qunari, they'll skip the mission entirely instead of making commitments they won't follow through on.

Some of my Inquisitors have distrusted the Qunari in general but agreed to it because it's important to Bull.

[leaguer of one]

Thedas is supposed to be in a late middle age period.

 

 

No, it's not. Ferelden is in the late muddle ages. The rest of thedas is ether in the gothic age or renaissance.

[leaguer of one]

The morons were the Inquisition spies. They hadn't any news of the Red Lyrium deal in this region, and once the Ben-Hassrath came with informations, they didn't double checked them, just to be sure than a questionable "ally" wasn't playing them fool. The Qunari are not to blame for the death of the Chargers, the Inquisition management of its network of spies is.

 

I mean, it even happens in this day and age and it doesn't make it less stupid. I still remember how the French and Italian armies switched place in Afghanistan, with the latter telling the former that the region was cleared and secure. Less than one week later, the French army had lost at least a dozen of soldiers in an ambush. Mainly because they had believed the Italians without using their own resources to prove that what they were said was true.

How are they not at fault when the fact that if they allowed more troop from the inquisitor to fight with the chargers, their deaths could of been avoided and well as the deaths of the people on that ship?

[denise12184]

If it's such a mistake, why do the mission? The way I see it, if my inquisitor truly distrusts the Qunari, they'll skip the mission entirely instead of making commitments they won't follow through on.

As mentioned above, it was important to Bull. Also, in the event that the offer was sincere, it seemed prudent to at least try to give the benefit of the doubt. My Vashoth inquisitor never trusted the qunari, but recognized that bias had no place in leading. Her commitment ended as soon as it was all take and no give on the part of the qunari. The mission had to go down the way they wanted it to, despite there being other options available. They shoot down every single one. That's not an alliance. My inquisitor was willing to try, up until their need to control every aspect of the mission started getting people killed. An alliance is working together to advance common goals. It became clear on the storm coast that the qunari had little interest in working together, and few common goals, so it failed. Again, that's nothing like plans of mass genocide.

 

 

The morons were the Inquisition spies. They hadn't any news of the Red Lyrium deal in this region, and once the Ben-Hassrath came with informations, they didn't double checked them, just to be sure than a questionable "ally" wasn't playing them fool. The Qunari are not to blame for the death of the Chargers, the Inquisition management of its network of spies is.

 

I wasn't blaming anyone for the death of the Chargers, simply because it never happens in my games. I was blaming the qunari for the destruction of their dreadnought. The Ben-Hassrath are supposed to be really good at what they do. That sure wasn't evident on the Storm Coast. You can bring up different issues with the plan when you talk to Gatt, so it seems like the inquisition did some of their homework, at least. Gatt dismisses every one. They weren't willing to change their plan when things started to go wrong and seemed to expect their 'allies' to take the hit for them while they got away with no losses. That isn't an alliance, that's using someone else's people as fodder.

[Mr.House]

The morons were the Inquisition spies. They hadn't any news of the Red Lyrium deal in this region, and once the Ben-Hassrath came with informations, they didn't double checked them, just to be sure than a questionable "ally" wasn't playing them fool. The Qunari are not to blame for the death of the Chargers, the Inquisition management of its network of spies is.

 

I mean, it even happens in this day and age and it doesn't make it less stupid. I still remember how the French and Italian armies switched place in Afghanistan, with the latter telling the former that the region was cleared and secure. Less than one week later, the French army had lost at least a dozen of soldiers in an ambush. Mainly because they had believed the Italians without using their own resources to prove that what they were said was true.

The qunari forbid thew inquisition to bring more troops. It's there fault as had they brought more troops, the chargers would not have run the risk of dying and thus the dreadnaught would have been fine.

 

It was there fault for trying to play with Hissrad.

[Kurogane335]

The qunari forbid thew inquisition to bring more troops. It's there fault as had they brought more troops, the chargers would not have run the risk of dying and thus the dreadnaught would have been fine.

 

It was there fault for trying to play with Hissrad.

 

And the Inquisitor could have send more troops anyway, hiding them. You don't submit entirely to someone who will perhaps become your ally only after you have had a mission with them. The Inquisition probably has troops versed in the lay of the zones by the time you can do the quest, possibly even the Blades of Hessarian. Hiding them near the battlezone to make then intervene at a given signal wouldn't have been impossible, and the Qunari would have been none the wiser -or if they had known, then the Inquisitor would have had good reasons to suspect a trap.

 

This quest what terribly written and presented ingame, but the Qunari are far from being the sole or even the main to blame for what may happen to the Chargers.

[InfinitePaths]

I strongly disagree.

 

I find it great when a game truly punishes you with dire concequences if you choose something that is clearly leading to utter disaster. Not all choices have equally good/bad grey outcomes, just like in real life, some choices do more harm than others.

 

This outcome is even more brilliantly devastating because people who sacrificed the chargers thought they were getting political strenght and power by doing so, when in actuallity, they only screwed things up for themselves by giving information to the monsterous people called the Qunari. Additionally, your companion/friend/lover can betray you in cold blood, leaving you with a terryfing realization that he was syping on you, and serving the Qun all this time, ready to kill you without thinking twice if ordered. A chilling insight into Qunari indocrtination and dehumanization of their people.

 

Ironically enough, we learn that the Qunari are even bigger A-holes by seeing them claiming that they want to preserve the Alliance with you after their plan fails.

 

"The Ben'Hassrath Agent was NOT following our orders, after all. Just like the Arishok in DA2" suuuuure....

 

They consistenly kill, infiltrate and decieve people the South in order to try to spread their cancerous religion across the world. I completely see why Solas hates the Qun and i Indoubtably agree with him.

 

I really enjoyed how things turned out when you sacrificed the chargers...Because I never sacrificed them and have just seen the outcomes on youtube

[Zatche]

I was expecting it, really. I'd have been disappointed and surprised if Qun Bull didn't betray you.

[leaguer of one]

Since when does the Qunari have a great health care system?  *scratches head*.  

 

And here I prefer freedom.  There is a chance with that in Southern Thedas.  There is none under the Qun. 

Since they are more advance then most of thedas.

[leaguer of one]

And the Inquisitor could have send more troops anyway, hiding them. You don't submit entirely to someone who will perhaps become your ally only after you have had a mission with them. The Inquisition probably has troops versed in the lay of the zones by the time you can do the quest, possibly even the Blades of Hessarian. Hiding them near the battlezone to make then intervene at a given signal wouldn't have been impossible, and the Qunari would have been none the wiser -or if they had known, then the Inquisitor would have had good reasons to suspect a trap.

 

This quest what terribly written and presented ingame, but the Qunari are far from being the sole or even the main to blame for what may happen to the Chargers.

Sure, let's try to out wit a group of specialied spy that run circle around our for years. It's bound to work somehow...*sarcasm

[CoM Solaufein]

Well I for one will not be naive if I'm introduced to a Qunari who can join your party or a possible Qun alliance in a future game. Never trust a Qunari again.

 

After my Inky romanced Bull and got turned on in the end, that won't happen again.

[Al Foley]

Well I for one will not be naive if I'm introduced to a Qunari who can join your party or a possible Qun alliance in a future game. Never trust a Qunari again.

 

After my Inky romanced Bull and got turned on in the end, that won't happen again.

Ouch that must've been brutal.  Though it was the reason I did not romance him with Kara in the end, she did not make him Tal-Vashoth fast enough...really...and the Qun thing was not going to work. 

[Kurogane335]

Well I for one will not be naive if I'm introduced to a Qunari who can join your party or a possible Qun alliance in a future game. Never trust a Qunari again.

 

After my Inky romanced Bull and got turned on in the end, that won't happen again.

That's my main problem with the future of the franchise. Making Qunari (as in follower of the Qun) companions won't work now because no one will be willing to have them, knowing that they'll turn on you for the inane reasons presented in Trespasser. The actions of the Arishok made sense back in DA2, because he was fed up with years of vexations (Petrice's actions, among many problems between the inhabitants of Kirkwall and the Qunari) and failures to get back the Tome of Koslun. In DA:I it is basically "We are the Qunari, so we are assholes without any decency or true logic" who are irremediably evil and must be killed on sight. Meanwhile, the ****** Tevinter Imperium is white-washed by Dorian and Felix, and Alexius (I think it was his name, I'm talking about Felix's father, just in case) until he had lost hope because of Felix suffering from the Taint.

 

It makes me sick. Really, especially when the threat that the Qunari is so exaggerated by the writers themselves (how the **** did they manage to get so many gaatlok in all the important places without being noticed by more than just Solas' agents, seriously... It doesn't make sense, even if the Ben-Hassrath are trained to such actions).

[denise12184]

I'd still accept a qunari companion. As bad as the Qun can be, I still don't believe the qunari are evil. They are just people, like everyone else, with the same flaws and desires. They believe the Qun to be the solution to the 'human' condition, just like any other religion at it's core. They take it further than most, with the whole conquer and assimilate attitude, but in the end, it's still just their attempt to muddle through life.

 

I'm not brushing aside any of the stuff wrong with the Qun, but it isn't as simple as labeling the entire people as irredeemably evil.

[Arvaarad]

In DA:I it is basically "We are the Qunari, so we are assholes without any decency or true logic" who are irremediably evil and must be killed on sight.

 

Devil's advocate, the Qunari have a very good reason to oppose the Inquisitor, specifically. The Inquisitor has a magical hand-mark that can manipulate the Veil, open and close rifts, and even walk bodily in the Fade.

 

It's easy to forget because we're the ones in control of that power, but think how terrifying it would be if someone else had that power. The Qunari see that Corypheus is dealt with, but the power remains, and no one in southern Thedas is doing anything to check it. The Inquisitor is one bad day, heck, one blackout drinking session away, from wandering into the Fade and raining untold destruction on all of Thedas like the magisters of old. Like, seriously, the Inquisitor could wake up one morning and go rogue, and there would be ZERO that anyone else can do to stop them from causing serious, irreparable harm to all of Thedas.

 

And then the Qunari start coming into contact with agents of Fen'Harel, start to hear rumors of tearing down the Veil and destroying the world. And they discover that the Inquisitor's hand comes from him, and he played a pivotal role in the Inquisition from the start. Of course they're going to be hostile toward the Inquisitor and everyone who supports them. They're scared ****less.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly, the only thing I want to know now is statistics - how many people saves Charges on their re-runs after Trespasser came out. Sadly, statistics is the one thing BW never gives away.

I still do for a few reasons.

 

1. Save thousands of lives if you do, from the crew on the dreadnought to the people in Ferelden and Orlais. 

2. Destroy the Venatori's and by extension Corypheus' spy network. 

3. My Inquisitor doesn't know of the Dragon's Breath at the time. 

4. See the Vidasala as being rogue, hence crumpled up disavowed note(she was doing several things the Qun disagrees with).

5. Chantry and by extension Southern Thedas in an alliance with the Qun after Trespasser. 

6. Better story end for The Iron Bull, boosting Solas' position on betrayal and corruption while also giving Hissrad a warrior's death, something he has wanted for years but nobody was seen as worthy enough. 

[denise12184]

 

Devil's advocate, the Qunari have a very good reason to oppose the Inquisitor, specifically. The Inquisitor has a magical hand-mark that can manipulate the Veil, open and close rifts, and even walk bodily in the Fade.

 

It's easy to forget because we're the ones in control of that power, but think how terrifying it would be if someone else had that power. The Qunari see that Corypheus is dealt with, but the power remains, and no one in southern Thedas is doing anything to check it. The Inquisitor is one bad day, heck, one blackout drinking session away, from wandering into the Fade and raining untold destruction on all of Thedas like the magisters of old. Like, seriously, the Inquisitor could wake up one morning and go rogue, and there would be ZERO that anyone else can do to stop them from causing serious, irreparable harm to all of Thedas.

 

And then the Qunari start coming into contact with agents of Fen'Harel, start to hear rumors of tearing down the Veil and destroying the world. And they discover that the Inquisitor's hand comes from him, and he played a pivotal role in the Inquisition from the start. Of course they're going to be hostile toward the Inquisitor and everyone who supports them. They're scared ****less.

Oh, I completely understood their motive for going after the inquisition, just like I understood the reason Orlais and Ferelden freaked out and called for the council. Fear leads people to do all kinds of crazy stuff.  (Not quite sure why Solas seems to think the whole thing was somehow quizzy's fault, since he started all of it, but whatever.)

 

Even if the inquisition had disbanded prior to all this, as long as inquisitor had the anchor, I think it was only a matter of time before someone tried to neutralize that threat.

[Amirit]

I still do for a few reasons.

 

1. Save thousands of lives if you do, from the crew on the dreadnought to the people in Ferelden and Orlais. 

2. Destroy the Venatori's and by extension Corypheus' spy network. 

3. My Inquisitor doesn't know of the Dragon's Breath at the time. 

4. See the Vidasala as being rogue, hence crumpled up disavowed note(she was doing several things the Qun disagrees with).

5. Chantry and by extension Southern Thedas in an alliance with the Qun after Trespasser. 

6. Better story end for The Iron Bull, boosting Solas' position on betrayal and corruption while also giving Hissrad a warrior's death, something he has wanted for years but nobody was seen as worthy enough. 

 

 

Oh, I agree with every point. And sure that any real roleplayer will run that part of the game according to his character view on the situation. I am just curious if the number of "anty-Qun" Iquisitors grow up after "Trespasser".

[Kurogane335]

 

Devil's advocate, the Qunari have a very good reason to oppose the Inquisitor, specifically. The Inquisitor has a magical hand-mark that can manipulate the Veil, open and close rifts, and even walk bodily in the Fade.

 

Yes, I know that. But attacking the South now when they could finish Tevinter (something far more important to strengthen their position in the future that an unruly population in the South, however divided it could have been after the death of its leaders) makes no logical sense. The resources to control those conquests would be atrocious, especially since their mainland is so far away, and that the only road would have been by sea, which means at the risk of the Felicisima Armada and other pirates groups and various naval powers.