250 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Yes, I know that. But attacking the South now when they could finish Tevinter (something far more important to strengthen their position in the future that an unruly population in the South, however divided it could have been after the death of its leaders) makes no logical sense. The resources to control those conquests would be atrocious, especially since their mainland is so far away, and that the only road would have been by sea, which means at the risk of the Felicisima Armada and other pirates groups and various naval powers.

Leaving Tevinter to be surrounded by the enemy is far more logical. That's what Dragons Breath was, it deals with all the leaders and big names, then the qunari come in like a storm and conquer the south with ease before Tevinter can even mount a proper counter attack.

[Kurogane335]

Leaving Tevinter to be surrounded by the enemy is far more logical. That's what Dragons Breath was, it deals with all the leaders and big names, then the qunari come in like a storm and conquer the south with ease before Tevinter can even mount a proper counter attack.

That's not because you take down the leaders that you rule the land. Just look at Seheron. It was under full control of the Qunari at some point in time. The leaders of the local were probably killed. As far as I know, the Fog Warriors are still there, killing the Vints and the Qunari alike. Southern Thedas has endured much. Ferelden withstood the Blight, Orlais came out of a civil war and every minor noble there will try to rise and oppose the Qun. The Free Marches, disunited as they would be, would be extremely hard to convert too. And we have to take into account the fact that such a plan require that all those leaders are actually blind without control of what happens in their courtyard. You can't simply introduce an insane amount of gaatlok in every castle in the South without at least some people noticing it !

[Mr.House]

That's not because you take down the leaders that you rule the land. Just look at Seheron. It was under full control of the Qunari at some point in time. The leaders of the local were probably killed. As far as I know, the Fog Warriors are still there, killing the Vints and the Qunari alike. Southern Thedas has endured much. Ferelden withstood the Blight, Orlais came out of a civil war and every minor noble there will try to rise and oppose the Qun. The Free Marches, disunited as they would be, would be extremely hard to convert too. And we have to take into account the fact that such a plan require that all those leaders are actually blind without control of what happens in their courtyard. You can't simply introduce an insane amount of gaatlok in every castle in the South without at least some people noticing it !

Except they did, only reason why this was found outr was because of Solas and thus Leli had her spies around the south search for it once she knew what was going on. This was why Solas didn't kill the Viddasala as spies where already in place to do it. Yeah there would be resistance but should I remind you what happen the last time a king (Cailan) was killed or a divine was blown up, the amount of chaos that happened? That would have been doubled as the leaders of Orlais, Ferelden and important cities in Kirkwall along with big players like the Inquisitor, the bulk of the nobility ect would all die. That is massive chaos the qunari would use to their advantage.

[Drasanil]

Except they did, only reason why this was found outr was because of Solas and thus Leli had her spies around the south search for it once she knew what was going on. This was why Solas didn't kill the Viddasala as spies where already in place to do it. Yeah there would be resistance but should I remind you what happen the last time a king (Cailan) was killed or a divine was blown up, the amount of chaos that happened? That would have been doubled as the leaders of Orlais, Ferelden and important cities in Kirkwall along with big players like the Inquisitor, the bulk of the nobility ect would all die. That is massive chaos the qunari would use to their advantage.

 

If you had Gaspard as Emperor (for real), the plan might have back-fired given that according to the letter in the Winter Palace he was off hunting or inspecting the troops while the Exalted Council played out. Kill all his opposition as well as the major leadership of his neighbours? Gaspard would have had a field day sweeping up chunks of the continent long before the Qun could land proper armies in the south. 

[Mr.House]

If you had Gaspard as Emperor (for real), the plan might have back-fired given that according to the letter in the Winter Palace he was off hunting or inspecting the troops while the Exalted Council played out. Kill all his opposition as well as the major leadership of his neighbours? Gaspard would have had a field day sweeping up chunks of the continent long before the Qun could land proper armies in the south. 

And that's why you make Gaspard Emperor.

[Drasanil]

And that's why you make Gaspard Emperor.

 

 Damn skippy

[DarkTl]

It's curious how she tells him "please" when asking to attack the Inquisitor. That's not how you give an order. Vidasala might have a higher rank, but he was a spy, had his own mission and probably had his own commanding officer or something like that.

He could kill those Inquisitors who had a romance with him very easily if needed, but he didn't. Meaning the Qun didn't wanted the Inquisitor dead, at least not yet.
I think by attacking the Inquisitor he failed his true mission as a spy, whatever it was, because he decided to follow any order at all instead of thinking which one is more important in the long run.

 

Of course it's also possible that his true mission is even more terrible, thus he prefered to be killed by the Inquisitor and two other companions, being unable to find another way without betraying the Qun.

 

Anyway, this is the first time when I won't replay the game to save a character, since thousands of lives saved by the aliance with Qun, even if a temporary one, are more important for my Inquisitor than one character and his small crew. Well done, Bioware.

[leaguer of one]

Yes, I know that. But attacking the South now when they could finish Tevinter (something far more important to strengthen their position in the future that an unruly population in the South, however divided it could have been after the death of its leaders) makes no logical sense. The resources to control those conquests would be atrocious, especially since their mainland is so far away, and that the only road would have been by sea, which means at the risk of the Felicisima Armada and other pirates groups and various naval powers.

I said this once...I'll say this again.

 

1. The plan if done as intended would of wipe out the command structure of the south to the point the could not even start to fight back. The invasion would have nothing to contest it leaving Tevinter by itself.

 

2. The plan was made so their would be no needless death of any non-ruling class and non-combatants.

 

 

There would be no anything strong enough to fight back.

[leaguer of one]

That's not because you take down the leaders that you rule the land. Just look at Seheron. It was under full control of the Qunari at some point in time. The leaders of the local were probably killed. As far as I know, the Fog Warriors are still there, killing the Vints and the Qunari alike. Southern Thedas has endured much. Ferelden withstood the Blight, Orlais came out of a civil war and every minor noble there will try to rise and oppose the Qun. The Free Marches, disunited as they would be, would be extremely hard to convert too. And we have to take into account the fact that such a plan require that all those leaders are actually blind without control of what happens in their courtyard. You can't simply introduce an insane amount of gaatlok in every castle in the South without at least some people noticing it !

That a bad example because it's a chaotic 3 way battle. That would not be the case if this plan bare fruit.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

It's been a while for me. Can someone remind me how thousands of lives were saved by ally ing with the Qun?

[DarkTl]

A war table operation. Venatori fire ship will attack Denerim, setting half of it inflame, unless was stopped by Qunari dreadnought.

[Equalitas]

I chose the Qun over the Chargers this playthrough, and am incredibly glad Bull betrayed me. I'm over the moon that Bioware finally decided to have a real consequence for a character's personal arc - it makes perfect sense, and it's so coldly done that it works fantastically.

 

I'll do it again. The chance to learn more about the Qunari through the Alliance, the intelligence reports you receive, the respect the Inquisitor earns amongst the Qun, and the fact that you're the first alliance the Qunari have made in their history? That all matters, it's important. It sets precedents for the future that might allow a peaceful solution to the Qunari problem. It's a real political step.

 

In exchange for a group of mercenaries I don't particularly care for? Absolutely. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand. I like Krem well enough, and the loss of Iron Bull now is definitely rough, but it all makes sense. I'm sacrificing for the possibility of a bigger future, learning more about a very dangerous group in Thedas and possibly laying the bedrock for future negotiations. I'm fine with having to sacrifice for that - it's what Inqusition was about.

 

It could have used been a little drama death scene tho. But i really liked how Sera and Cassandra got real pissed for being fooled by The Bull. 

[TheRevanchist]

It could have used been a little drama death scene tho. But i really liked how Sera and Cassandra got real pissed for being fooled by The Bull. 

 

Indeed, Cassandra, of all people would take that personally. Her entire job is to Seek out the Truth, and she obviously failed. Her VA got across her shame perfectly.

[DarkTl]

Even Cole was unable to predict it. Shows how dangerous Qunari are.

 

Thank God my Hawke didn't tried to do a thing with Tallis back then...

[LadyCass]

If you don't get his personal quest and the chargers are alive. He still betrays you
 
This post is a good way of explaining why Bull betrays you if he's Qun http://shallow-betwe...st/128769818344

 

Okay, that post made me cry, and more or less put into words exactly what I'd been thinking throughout this thread.

 

From a personal note, there a few choices in DA and ME that I simply can't make, because of my personal issues with them. I can't actually connect with characters who would do so, or find them singularly unfulfilling to play. I can play characters who justify all kinds of brutality and cruelty as necessity, expedience or simple pragmatism, but on a few points I don't budge, whoever I'm playing.

 

The Qun is one place where that comes up. The entire idea of their culture makes me recoil, and I find myself agreeing with Solas, of all people. It's an abomination. The only reason I even did Bull's quest to start with was because the Venatori threat sounded very real. I would have screwed over the Qun and saved the Chargers, even if that meant I had to kill Iron Bull right there and then. The fact that it goes the other way I'm grateful for, partly because I feel like the Inquisitor managed to "save" the Bull from the insidious appeal of the Qun.

[DarkTl]

I find it hard to believe that Viddasala and her followers are not Tal Vashoth. I recall Sten mentioned that Qunari are a race of thinking warriors, not mindless ones. It's sad that Iron Bull chooses to follow her without a solid proof that she's following the Qun. Perhaps another, more smart Qunari wouldn't do such a thing.

 

After all, Iron Bull could have easily killed the Inquisitor via romance if the true Qun wanted him to. But it didn't happened.

 

Also, seeing how Qunari do things here and there without the support of the Qun, they are probably not as monolithic as they want others to believe. I suppose they have many factions, just like other countries.

[TheRevanchist]

Okay, that post made me cry, and more or less put into words exactly what I'd been thinking throughout this thread.

 

From a personal note, there a few choices in DA and ME that I simply can't make, because of my personal issues with them. I can't actually connect with characters who would do so, or find them singularly unfulfilling to play. I can play characters who justify all kinds of brutality and cruelty as necessity, expedience or simple pragmatism, but on a few points I don't budge, whoever I'm playing.

 

The Qun is one place where that comes up. The entire idea of their culture makes me recoil, and I find myself agreeing with Solas, of all people. It's an abomination. The only reason I even did Bull's quest to start with was because the Venatori threat sounded very real. I would have screwed over the Qun and saved the Chargers, even if that meant I had to kill Iron Bull right there and then. The fact that it goes the other way I'm grateful for, partly because I feel like the Inquisitor managed to "save" the Bull from the insidious appeal of the Qun.

 

Yep...much to my own surprise I actually got moisture in my eyes a bit after reading that....damn onions....

 

But in all seriousness...that whole post sounds exactly right. weather Vidassala was really part of the Qun or not didn't matter to him....because you killed The Chargers. He looked to you, hoping secretly that you would tell him to save them, to pull them back. But you don't, you tell them they are expendable. That is why Cole felt nothing...because he was dead inside...and he blamed himself and you for it.

[DarkTl]

Yeah, I suppose it's possible that he blamed the Inquisitor. Though they never give me a choice to bring or not to bring the charges. I'd rather sent Cass+Blackwall+Dorian+Varric instead to wreck those Venatori without any problems.

[Sifr]

A war table operation. Venatori fire ship will attack Denerim, setting half of it inflame, unless was stopped by Qunari dreadnought.

 

That we hear no mention of any attack on Denerim if Bull is Tal-Vashoth could suggest that in this worldstate, the Qunari picked the correct option that lead to the Dreadnought destroying the Venatori vessel before it could attack?

 

A bit a cheat, but amusing to imagine that the only thing preventing the Qunari from always saving Denerim is the Inquisitor's potential incompetence.

 

[DarkTl]

Well, all table missions usually don't have major consequences aside from roleplay part.

I assume in this case we don't know about the attack until it happens, so it's pointless to add any table operations, there is nothing we can do.

[TobiTobsen]

If you don't get his personal quest and the chargers are alive. He still betrays you
 
This post is a good way of explaining why Bull betrays you if he's Qun http://shallow-betwe...st/128769818344

 

You, I like you. And the person who has written that text.

[Bio Addict]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of people who are thankful the devs went this route with Iron Bull.  In my book this is the kind of choice with consequences that we need more of in RPGs.  A toast to you Bioware!

 

I'm not normally much for "head canon" but I like to imagine that, aside from still being a functioning part of the Qun, there was a part of Iron Bull that never forgave my Inquisitor for sacrificing the Chargers to keep the alliance intact and he was thinking of them dying as he attacked my Inquisitor and his party.

 

On a side note he is amusingly difficult to take down if you spec him to tank, building guard like a crazy SOB, lol.

[Arbalest7]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of people who are thankful the devs went this route with Iron Bull.  In my book this is the kind of choice with consequences that we need more of in RPGs.  A toast to you Bioware!

 

I'm not normally much for "head canon" but I like to imagine that, aside from still being a functioning part of the Qun, there was a part of Iron Bull that never forgave my Inquisitor for sacrificing the Chargers to keep the alliance intact and he was thinking of them dying as he attacked my Inquisitor and his party.

 

On a side note he is amusingly difficult to take down if you spec him to tank, building guard like a crazy SOB, lol.

That's why in my Qunari Bull playthroughs I always gave him garbage gear and reset all of his talent points. Your not the only one who can play people Hissrad.

[Arvaarad]

That's why in my Qunari Bull playthroughs I always gave him garbage gear and reset all of his talent points. Your not the only one who can play people Hissrad.

 

Haha, I had a really easy time with betrayals in DA:O and DA2 because I always played with tactics switched off. They'd be all "BWAAAA I'M TURNING ON YOUUUUU"... then autoattack me for a few seconds while I pasted them into the dirt.

[Patchwork]

I'm pretty happy about the betrayal, my Inquisitor made a decision and so did Iron Bull/Hissrad.  I like when a game choice have consequences.

 

And from a meta game perspective it's the same choice he makes if the Chargers are alive but you don't do his personal quest.