205 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

And yet Coryfish makes it clear there was no one there, no maker, no old gods, nothing. Just blackness. SO the million dollar answer is this, how was the black city already corrupted.

 

Some things we can accept as fact.

Someone spoke to Corypheus and the other Seven and convinced them to breach the Veil with their physical bodies. They entered the City and brought Blight to Thedas. This lead to the creation of the Darkspawn and the release of Dumat.

So, we can say that the Veil was part of what kept the Old Gods in their prisons much like the evanuris. So, either there are two entirely different groups of deities being kept in their prisons by the Veil or they are one and the same.

 

The Black City is connected to the Fade. The Fade is connected to Lyrium. Lyrium is connected to the Titans. The Titans imprison the Old Gods AKA the evanuris. With the Veil, no one could reach the Black City and thus bring the Blight which was the key to freeing them.

 

The Black City and the Blight are the linchpin of it all. What are they? Who created them?

[Heimdall]

Valta does say that Titans shaped the world "within and without" so I can imagine the Evanuris must not have liked it when their creations/ buildings were subsequently destroyed due to Titans merely doing what comes naturally for them.
 
From what we know
1. Dragons ruled the skies before the veil
2. Great War in which gave rise to the Evanuris
3. Legend/propaganda says Elgar'nan defeated the Sun who was harming the Earth. As punishment he locked the Sun deep into the Earth and subsequently plunged the world in darkness and life ceased to exists and it was Mythal that convinced him to forgive the Sun
4. Trespasser codex says that Mythal is denying others the Sun

Maybe the Great Dragons and Old Gods were the foe in this war? Somehow linked to the "Sun"? Whatever that refers to...

[rapscallioness]

You know, Cole makes some remark in this dlc that goes, "It created them, but they became afraid and fought back. Then It made them forget."

 

Idk to what he is referring.

[MisterJB]

But the Old Gods weren't sealed away beyond the Veil. My bet is still that they are the Forgotten Ones.

 

Solas never said that the evanuris are sealed beyond the Veil. Only that the Veil keeps them imprisioned.

If they are the Old Gods, they are sealed within the Titans. And the Titans are disturbed whenever the Veil is.

When Corypheus breached the Veil, he brought the Blight which eventually released the Old Gods.

[Daerog]

Are the Titans knowingly imprisoning the Old Gods? If they are, they are doing a poor job. There is no blight around the Titan, but it can get to the Old Gods...

[ZoliCs]

Solas never said that the evanuris are sealed beyond the Veil. Only that the Veil keeps them imprisioned.

If they are the Old Gods, they are sealed within the Titans. And the Titans are disturbed whenever the Veil is.

When Corypheus breached the Veil, he brought the Blight which eventually released the Old Gods.

 

The Veil is a barrier, how would it keep them imprisoned if they aren't "behind" it?

[MisterJB]

Also, Titans are able to resist the blight, or at least their presence keeps the blight at bay. That is quite interesting... get to know the Titans more (somehow), learn more about that magical dagger and sword that was able to repel the blight, and the world could very well be saved from the blight without having to go near the last two Old Gods.

 

What if it's not that at all?

 

In Descent, we see how there is no trace of the Blight anywhere within the Titan. We assumed that meant the Darkspawn avoid it.

However, what if it is the precise opposite? What if the Darkspawn seek it? What if the reason that Titan was untouched by the Blight was because there are still two Old Gods imprisioned?

 

Hell, what about this? Solas is furious with the attempt to preemptively kill the two last Old Gods.

What if this is because, releasing an Old God means Tainting or killing a Titan? And since the Titans are the Pillars of the Earth, this is very bad. This was something they discovered when Mythal killed one. Mythal argued for not doing it again but the other evanuris desired the Lyrium and killed her so they could continue to hunt the Pillars.

Solas thought that by imprisioning the avenuris within the Titans and the Blight beyond the Veil, the Titans and thus the world would be safe. But then comes Corypheus...

[Mr.House]

COryfish loves ruining Sola's plans.

[MisterJB]

The Veil is a barrier, how would it keep them imprisoned if they aren't "behind" it?

 

By keeping the key to releasing them, the Blight, in the Black City which is beyond the Veil.
 

[ZoliCs]

Forgotten ones are most likely the forbidden ones.

 

They were awfully easy to kill for a "god".

[Daerog]

The Veil isn't like a wall between two nations. The Fade and the material world is like opening your eyes and closing them, it is the same "place," but different ways of being "present" in that "place." The Veil is created to strengthen the disconnection between the two ways of being "present," so it is possible that the old gods were forced to be in their dragon forms and locked in the material world due to the Veil making them unable to tap into that which gives them power, the Fade that allows others to shape reality.

[Daerog]

They were awfully easy to kill for a "god".

 

They were locked away for a very long time, like Solas was. Solas was too weak to face Cory alone. None of them are all powerful, and that power isn't completely innate, it is something that is learned and nurtured.

[Heimdall]

Some things we can accept as fact.
Someone spoke to Corypheus and the other Seven and convinced them to breach the Veil with their physical bodies. They entered the City and brought Blight to Thedas. This lead to the creation of the Darkspawn and the release of Dumat.

So, we can say that the Veil was part of what kept the Old Gods in their prisons much like the evanuris. So, either there are two entirely different groups of deities being kept in their prisons by the Veil or they are one and the same.

The Black City is connected to the Fade. The Fade is connected to Lyrium. Lyrium is connected to the Titans. The Titans imprison the Old Gods AKA the evanuris. With the Veil, no one could reach the Black City and thus bring the Blight which was the key to freeing them.

The Black City and the Blight are the linchpin of it all. What are they? Who created them?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some codex entries from Corypheus in the shrine of Dumat or the Fade indicate that Corypheus' whole reason for breaching the veil was because the Gods had fallen silent? I might be misremembering.

You are twisting this a bit. The Veil wasn't keeping Dumat prisoner. Breaching it didn't free him. The legions of darkspawn unearthing his physical prison beneath the earth did. And they're hardly freed so much as poisoned and driven mad by the Blight. To say that they're being held prisoner by the Veil just isn't accurate.

There seems to be a link between the Old Gods, the Blight, and the Black City, but aside from vague references to tainted beings in ancient elven lore, there's nothing really connecting it all to the elves or the Evanuris.

[MisterJB]

They were awfully easy to kill for a "god".

 

There is a codex entry detailing how the evanuris banished Xebenkeck, Gaxkang, Imshael and the Formless One.
So yeah, chances are the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are one and the same.

Further evidence is the fact that Imshael knew how to open the Eluvian network.
 

[Daerog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some codex entries from Corypheus in the shrine of Dumat or the Fade indicate that Corypheus' whole reason for breaching the veil was because the Gods had fallen silent? I might be misremembering.

You are twisting this a bit. The Veil wasn't keeping Dumat prisoner. Breaching it didn't free him. The legions of darkspawn unearthing his physical prison beneath the earth did. And they're hardly freed so much as poisoned and driven mad by the Blight. To say that they're being held prisoner by the Veil just isn't accurate.

There seems to be a link between the Old Gods, the Blight, and the Black City, but aside from vague references to tainted beings in ancient elven lore, there's nothing really connecting it all to the elves or the Evanuris.

 

Cory says "If you were ever real" or something to that effect. So, Cory never heard the voice of Dumat, even though he was the High Priest. Maybe Dumat spoke to the earlier High Priests, but at some point they all fell silent, and Cory likely used the story of Dumat telling him about the city to get others to help him ascend like the old elf gods.

 

The ancient elf empire was around when Tevinter was rising up, but we get no mention of what the ancient humans were doing when Solas started his rebellion and destroyed the empire. Although, Origins does hint at humans and elves living together in some places and perishing together during some great struggle...

 

If the theory is true, then the Veil is holding them prisoner because they are unable to influence the world until their physical forms are corrupted. They cannot be as they once were... unless the Veil is destroyed, then they can "ascend" all over again... that is if the theory is true. Both being seven could just be a coincidence.

[rapscallioness]

Ah, here is that Elgar'nan bit:

 

"Song to Elgar'nan

 

Elgar'nan, Wrath and Thunder,

Give us glory.

Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities.

Strike the usurpers with your lightening.

Burn the ground under your gaze.

Bring winged death against those who throw down our work.

Elgar'nan, help us tame the land."

 

Found in Temple  of Mythal-author unknown

 

So, we have reference to the earth shaking their cities and bringing winged death.

[ZoliCs]

They were locked away for a very long time, like Solas was. Solas was too weak to face Cory alone. None of them are all powerful, and that power isn't completely innate, it is something that is learned and nurtured.

 

They were neither locked away nor sleeping. They were just in the Fade.

 

There is a codex entry detailing how the evanuris banished Xebenkeck, Gaxkang, Imshael and the Formless One.
So yeah, chances are the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are one and the same.

Further evidence is the fact that Imshael knew how to open the Eluvian network.

 

Link? (Unless it's from this DLC.) I've read a codex in this DLC about the Forgotten ones, and they weren't named. And I can't imagine how they could be beyond the Veil if they were banished before there even was a Veil.

[kukumburr]

Ohh, interesting, I missed this. Looking back at some other codex entries, these seem relevant:

 

Song to Elgar'nan:

Elgar'nan, wrath and thunder, 

give us glory.

Give us victory, over the earth that shakes our cities.

Strike the usurpers with your lightning.

Burn the ground under your gaze.

Bring winged death against those who throw down 

our work.

Elgar'nan, help us tame the land.

 

From the torn notebook in the deep roads:

I am empty, filled with nothing(?),

Mythal gives you dreams.

It fills you, within you(?),

making our leaders proud.

My little stones (*or little dwarves),

never yours the sun.

Forever, forever.

 

First one definitely seems to relate to warring against the Titans, and the second one sounds to me like the elves maybe altered the dwarves somehow?

 

Cole also has one of his cryptic sayings that I thought might relate, since it talks about the earth. I'm not sure though if maybe it's a reference to something I don't know. This is what he says:

 

"They made bodies from the earth, and the earth was afraid. It fought back, but they made it forget."

 

There are stories of the Evanuris "creating" animals and such, perhaps they had something to do with the creation of dwarves and/or darkspawn, as empty vessels? And that made the Titans mad or something?

 

[Rhidor]

So Lyrium is like the Titan's veins?

 

Sorry, never played the Descent. What would red lyrium be then?

[Daerog]

Dwarves vs. Elves. Classic.

[Heimdall]

So Lyrium is like the Titan's veins?
 
Sorry, never played the Descent. What would red lyrium be then?

So Lyrium is like the Titan's veins?
 
Sorry, never played the Descent. What would red lyrium be then?

Red Lyrium is infected with the Blight so... I guess there's a Blighted Titan down there somewhere.

[Daerog]

They were neither locked away nor sleeping. They were just in the Fade.

 

 

Link? (Unless it's from this DLC.) I've read a codex in this DLC about the Forgotten ones, and they weren't named. And I can't imagine how they could be beyond the Veil if they were banished before there even was a Veil.

 

It is in Trespasser. The Shattered Library says that the old gods banished Xeb and Company because they didn't help the People when the People needed aid, they were forbidden to ever take form/shape again... so they were supposed to be locked in the immaterial world (Fade) and not allowed to enter the Earth (it says Earth in the codex).

[rapscallioness]

In Descent don't we find out there are memories missing from the Shaperate?

 

Yes. We do. Idk, though, if this is referring to the dwarves, or to the elves. Especially after reading the last line in the OP about how they were terrified and wanted to rise up  against the false gods lest they destroy them all.

 

So it could be referring to a war as JB mentioned between dwarves (created?) and the evanuris. Or the elves they enslaved.

 

Something seems to have happened to the dwarves to cut them off from their "magic", or their connection with the Stone/Titans. Could that be the "made them forget" part?