205 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

Murder of Mythal leads to Solas starting a civil war.

[Daerog]

The archdemons have the ability to return to life by possesing the bodies of other random darkspawn right?

So they basically change bodies.

Flemeth or Mythal in DA2 also changes body and she says that bodies are just that, nothing. And that is how she lives so long, she is almost immortal.

Solas in Trespasser days that he did not think of Cory learning the secret of immortality. The very secret which both Solas and Mythal and OG know

 

Solas says Cory discovered "effective" immortality, implying that it is not true immortality as he understood it, and Solas says that the elves were once truly immortal, before the Veil... probably due to their nature of being able to cross between the material and immaterial world so easily... the Veil stops that, and they are stuck in the material, even though they are children of both worlds in a way...

 

So... is this supposed to explain their "adaptive" genes? They were supposed to be able to manipulate their form/shape due to their nature of being inhabitants of the Fade and Earth?

[solomon.kosin]

Solas says Cory discovered "effective" immortality, implying that it is not true immortality as he understood it, and Solas says that the elves were once truly immortal, before the Veil... probably due to their nature of being able to cross between the material and immaterial world so easily... the Veil stops that, and they are stuck in the material, even though they are children of both worlds in a way...

So... is this supposed to explain their "adaptive" genes? They were supposed to be able to manipulate their form/shape due to their nature of being inhabitants of the Fade and Earth?

Could be. Maybe they become more spirit-like in the fade ( lol, all spirits=elves stuck in the fade when solas created it and thus lost their human identity), more human-like to travel the real world. And dragon-like to fly.

[SwiftMustache]

Haaaa that would make sense as to why in DA:O we can perform the dark ritual. Andraste would be the result of such a thing. Mmmm makes some sense. Also, every dlcs explain something, so Haakon. Would that dlc try to explain the archdemons?

[rapscallioness]

Murder of Mythal leads to Solas starting a civil war.

 

Ah, okay.

[Ranadiel Marius]

There is a codex entry detailing how the evanuris banished Xebenkeck, Gaxkang, Imshael and the Formless One.

Thus, I assume the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are one and the same.

Why would you assume that? The Forgotten Ones have different names and appear to have been elves, not demons/spirits.

 

 

Ohh, interesting, I missed this. Looking back at some other codex entries, these seem relevant:

 

Song to Elgar'nan:

Elgar'nan, wrath and thunder, 

give us glory.

Give us victory, over the earth that shakes our cities.

Strike the usurpers with your lightning.

Burn the ground under your gaze.

Bring winged death against those who throw down 

our work.

Elgar'nan, help us tame the land.

 

From the torn notebook in the deep roads:

I am empty, filled with nothing(?),

Mythal gives you dreams.

It fills you, within you(?),

making our leaders proud.

My little stones (*or little dwarves),

never yours the sun.

Forever, forever.

 

First one definitely seems to relate to warring against the Titans, and the second one sounds to me like the elves maybe altered the dwarves somehow?

 

Cole also has one of his cryptic sayings that I thought might relate, since it talks about the earth. I'm not sure though if maybe it's a reference to something I don't know. This is what he says:

 

"They made bodies from the earth, and the earth was afraid. It fought back, but they made it forget."

 

There are stories of the Evanuris "creating" animals and such, perhaps they had something to do with the creation of dwarves and/or darkspawn, as empty vessels? And that made the Titans mad or something?

 

I just found the codex regarding Mythal giving dreams to the little stones, and I immediatly freaked out. My interpretation of that song is that Mythal freed the mindless dwarves that served the Titans, giving them sentience and dreams (although not in the Fade). If true this is freaking massive!

[Daerog]

Could be. Maybe they become more spirit-like in the fade ( lol, all spirits=elves stuck in the fade when solas created it and thus lost their human identity), more human-like to travel the real world. And dragon-like to fly.

 

Well, clearly in the codex entries from Trespasser, there are elves and there are spirits. The elves can go between the material and immaterial, and some are so powerful they are godlike, but not all spirits are elves stuck in the Fade. Maybe some are, as the dead do cross the Fade and Imshael and Friends were once material beings... or at least it is said they could take material shape, but were forbidden to by the elf gods as punishment.

 

 

The Baronness makes more sense now... I was right! She became a demon!

[Pondering Drifter]

 

Frankly all I want to know is how the Old Gods and Great Dragons fit into all this.  Solas makes clear that the Evanuris are sealed beyond the Veil, which doesn't support the idea of them being the Old Gods.  Neither does Solas' concern for the Old Gods being killed, as it seems like he'd be quite happy to see the Evanuris gone.  I'm actually happy about that, as I'd prefer there to be more actors in this story.

 

If I were to take a stab, I would assume that the souls of the elven pantheon were sealed within dragons and buried within the earth while the physical bodies were sealed in the fade. Thus while their soul are immortal they are severed from their bodies and they cannot reach their full power. As to why they are sealed within dragons my guess would be that dragons are connected to Mythal the protector thus they would be a fitting guardian. If this is the case, the blight and calling could be tied the elven pantheon attempting reach their souls in the material world through the Darkspawn. However this does not explain how the blight could breach the veil to return the souls to their bodies.

[Heimdall]

Solas says Cory discovered "effective" immortality, implying that it is not true immortality as he understood it, and Solas says that the elves were once truly immortal, before the Veil... probably due to their nature of being able to cross between the material and immaterial world so easily... the Veil stops that, and they are stuck in the material, even though they are children of both worlds in a way...

 

So... is this supposed to explain their "adaptive" genes? They were supposed to be able to manipulate their form/shape due to their nature of being inhabitants of the Fade and Earth?

I think he was just going by the technical definition of the term.  Immortality technically means unable to die, not just agelessness.  however ancient elves can still be killed.  What Corypheus does is more similar to what Mythal did, but more effective.

 

I think the elves were like Cole becoming human, spirits that became "more real" as Cole would put it.  Cole needed a model to mimic, but maybe that wasn't the case before the Veil.  When they crossbreed with humans, they become more grounded by the "real" human half, hence why elven features fade.  Kieran says "I don't know why you want to look like that" to an elven Inquisitor and Cole says something about them having "blood that isn't blood", so I think I'm on to something here.

[Heimdall]

If I were to take a stab, I would assume that the souls of the elven pantheon were sealed within dragons and buried within the earth while the physical bodies were sealed in the fade. Thus while their soul are immortal they are severed from their bodies and they cannot reach their full power. As to why they are sealed within dragons my guess would be that dragons are connected to Mythal the protector thus they would be a fitting guardian. If this is the case, the blight and calling could be tied the elven pantheon attempting reach their souls in the material world through the Darkspawn. However this does not explain how the blight could breach the veil to return the souls to their bodies.

I think that's trying too hard to connect the Old Gods to the Evanuris.  Aside from the number of Gods, there's not much lending credit to the idea.

 

And remember that there's indication that the Blight, if not darkspawn, date to the time when the Evanuris were active.  And even they considered it an alien and corrupting force.  I don't believe its creation is connected to the elven gods at all.

[xPez]

Pretty sure the Forgotten Ones and the Forbidden Ones aren't the same thing. All of the Forbidden Ones have been named; Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang, and TFO, and likewise 3 of the Forgotten Ones have been named; Anaris, Geldauran and Daern'thal.

 

Crack pot theory time

 

There are codex entries and talks with Solas that suggest that spirits were part of ancient elven society, able to interact with people whenever. I think that the Forbidden Ones were powerful spirits that refused to assist the elves in a war of some kind, perhaps against the Titans, and for refusing to assist them were banished, as mentioned in the codex entries posted above. This may then have corrupted their nature and turned them each into powerful demons.

 

The Forgotten Ones, imo, were elven mages, leaders and politicians that disagreed with the soon-to-be Evanuris, leading to civil war and them being defeated and cast down. Numerous sources also mention dragons, and the form of a dragon being reserved for the gods and to take that form without permission was a huge crime. I think that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, defeated in war but too powerful to completely destroy (as mentioned by Solas), so they were locked into their dragon forms and shut away beneath the earth.

 

This would loosely fit with the main legend of Fen'Harel, in that both sets of "gods" are locked away separately, the Forgotten Ones being locked in the Void. There is also mention of Andruil wearing "armour of the Void", which drove her mad and is believed to have been red lyrium. Red lyrium being the armour of the Void would make the Void either the Deep Roads, or the inside of a corrupted Titan. This would also explain why the elves abandoned their holdings in the Deep Roads and sealed them up.

 

I think it would an interesting twist that the voices whispering to the early Tevinter's from the Fade were actually the Evanuris, not the Old Gods whom they defeated and locked away.

 

I don't really have answers for the elves relationship with the dwarves, nor the relationship between the Titans and the dwarves. There are a number of possible reasons for Mythal's death as well, but I don't think we have enough info about it yet.

[D_Schattenjager]

1. The Dwarves supposed to be part of a Hive Mind serving Titans before Mythal defeated them (Titans)?

2. The Blight also displays Hive mentality

3. Avernus research in Origins says that Blood Magic comes from Fade and Blight is alien to them

4. Elves are more about Fade magic

 

Based on this I believe that Old Gods and Banished Elves are separate from each other ...

[The Oracle]

Doesn't Solas say something about their being no link between the Old Gods and the Elvhen? I really don't want everything of interest to just come down to "the Elves did it". I love the ancient Elvhen lore but I don't want it to become a crutch with everything of interest just linking back to being something that they did or just another form of them. It makes the world smaller if everything of interest only comes from one group. So in that, I hope that things like the Old Gods, Titans, Forgotten Ones etc all end up being separate from the Elves. Sure, have wars and interactions, but I really hope that when things are revealed about them it doesn't fall back to "the Ancient Elves did it". 

[solomon.kosin]

I just hope bioware will publish smth like the Silmarillion with all the explanations on who, when and how

[Reznore57]

Doesn't Solas say something about their being no link between the Old Gods and the Elvhen? I really don't want everything of interest to just come down to "the Elves did it". I love the ancient Elvhen lore but I don't want it to become a crutch with everything of interest just linking back to being something that they did or just another form of them. It makes the world smaller if everything of interest only comes from one group. So in that, I hope that things like the Old Gods, Titans, Forgotten Ones etc all end up being separate from the Elves. Sure, have wars and interactions, but I really hope that when things are revealed about them it doesn't fall back to "the Ancient Elves did it". 

 

He says "in the lore".

But he's lying through his teeth , because he's distressed at the thought of Old Gods getting killed by wardens.

And Mythal wants to preserve an old God soul.

 

It means the Old Gods are not the creators , both Fen Harel and Mythal hate them.

Mythal would rip that old god soul and torture it for eternity , not kindly take it onto herself and says to Morrigan "something are worth preserving".

 

My crazy theory.

There used to be primordial being keeping balance between Thedas and the Fade.

Titans , we know they shape the earth and their blood reinforce reality , creating limitations for mages/entity using fade power .There's a codex about that in Trespasser too.The elves were aware of that.Their power were limited by the earth.

Then Dragons I assume were the overlords of elves and the fade.

 

Anyway I imagine something like this.

Elgar'nan , an elf , rise up against dragons the "rulers of the sky" .He starts a war for freedom for his people.He kills a couple of dragons.Things starts to get bad.Possible the fade was affected or the Blight was created.

Mythal stepped in ...she 's a mastermind.Instead of killing dragons , they burried the alphas underground and put them to sleep with magic.The fade is safe , Mythal starts to preserve dragons and tame them.

She understand their role in the balance of the world.

 

Hubris start to rise up among the future creators.

Years pass , now the elves notice the Titans , their very existance limit the possibilities for mages, and their blood is a very powerful tool.+ Earthquakes from time to time.

The elven people complain.Elgar'nan decide to go full war again the Titans.

Again Mythal stepped in , she goes underground , the Creators defeat the Titans.Something bad happens...perhaps the Blight , as in Red Lyrium.No matter , they seal whatever problem there is.

Things go on, hubris among the Creators rise up again.

 

Now the Creators are Gods they have power over the sky and the earth.They strive a great deal...

Mythal is the boss , she keeps everything in check , she's the one keeping balance , even if it means from time to time she has to kick a Creator's a**.

Now Mythal , the ultimate keeper of the world , is the next target.Logical.

She gets murdered.Fen Harel rises , some random mages decided they would also be as powerful as Gods = the Forgotten Ones...

Everyone starts to kill each others .

The Creators decide they need something to give them real "Godhood".True Immortality , true power over everyone.

So in their great wisdom , they seek the Void and the Blight.(created I assume when primordial being like Titans and Great dragons were killed , and the balance of the world was threatened.It's probably great dragon blood and Titan blood turned sour.)

[Dean_the_Young]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't some codex entries from Corypheus in the shrine of Dumat or the Fade indicate that Corypheus' whole reason for breaching the veil was because the Gods had fallen silent? I might be misremembering.

 

The Shrine of Dumat has codex that relate to the before and after Blight period for Corypheus.

 

Before the Blights and the Golden City, Corypheus (a) communed with what he at least thought was Dumat, and ( thought that reaching the Golden City would help rejuvinate/restore the Imperium in a period of lagging faith.

 

After the Blights (and after we know Dumat was killed), Corypheus can't hear Dumat anymore, and part of his motive-rant (and Cole insight) is that he's going to give Thedas an actual god in light of the absence.

 

 

I've never seen anything that indicated that the pre-Golden City motivation was that the Gods were silent. All mentions of Dumat's silence that I've seen have been post-re-awakening.
 

[ZoliCs]

Doesn't Solas say something about their being no link between the Old Gods and the Elvhen? I really don't want everything of interest to just come down to "the Elves did it". I love the ancient Elvhen lore but I don't want it to become a crutch with everything of interest just linking back to being something that they did or just another form of them. It makes the world smaller if everything of interest only comes from one group. So in that, I hope that things like the Old Gods, Titans, Forgotten Ones etc all end up being separate from the Elves. Sure, have wars and interactions, but I really hope that when things are revealed about them it doesn't fall back to "the Ancient Elves did it". 

 

Considering there was only 580 years between the fall of Arlathan and the First Blight there has to be some kind of connection.

[Dean_the_Young]

Why would you assume that? The Forgotten Ones have different names and appear to have been elves, not demons/spirits.

 

 

 

I just found the codex regarding Mythal giving dreams to the little stones, and I immediatly freaked out. My interpretation of that song is that Mythal freed the mindless dwarves that served the Titans, giving them sentience and dreams (although not in the Fade). If true this is freaking massive!

 

'Freeing' them might be a bit propogandistic. Remember the source.

 

But there does seem to be indication now that the Elves meddled with and had a hand in the rise of the modern dwarves. In the Temple of Mythal, one of the post-Well reliefs that you can read talks about how the Elves are fighting the 'soulless' creatures of the Earth, even as they hunt the pillars (Titans). We know this pre-Dwarven proto-Dwarf was distinct from the modern Dwarves, whose earliest history included allying with Tevinter (who, and this may take new light, sunk Arlathan into the ground), but there was never a clear transition point.

 

Now there is.

 

 

My guestimate of Thedasian pre-history:

 

 

In the beginning, there were spirits, elves, and the Titans. Spirits were everywhere, elves were immortal and had been as far as anyone remembers, and the Titans shaped the world (or at least Thedas).

 

Elven civilization rose. At first, there were no gods.

 

There was a war, and the elven gods were generals who won. The Generals took power and rulership, and spheres of influence.

 

The Titans shaping Thedas and creating the Deep Roads threatened the cities and elven civilization. The Titans were tended to by the first Dwarves, who were 'soulless.'

 

The elves gathered to wage war against the Titans, who may be the Forgotten Ones. The Forbidden Ones were important spirits who sat out the war. Various Dalish legends were born, like the armor of the void born from lyrium, and possibly the Blight itself.

 

The elves won the war with the Titans. Mythal gave the dwarves 'dreams', someone did something to make the Titans/Dwarves forget the conflict, and the modern dwarf civilization began. Dwarves may still be aware of Titans at this point.

 

The elven gods began to go mad with power and compete amongst themselves. Power struggle leads to arms race: implicit preparation and storage of the Blight in the Golden City, possible creation of races. (Qunari are created, head north to Qunari continent. Humans come south. Both races possibly an extension of Mythal's uplift of the Dwarves.)

 

Power struggle intensifies. Mythal was murdered in betrayal, kicking off civil war/slave uprising. Elven civilization is in chaos.

 

Solas betrays elven gods, raises the veil. The gods are sealed, the spirits banished, and magic and immortality is lost. Titans fall asleep- and possibly implicitly as pre-planned prisons for the Elven/Old Gods (part of cooperation of Dwarves/Titans with Solas? The 'Dread Wolf walks with both sides' myth?). Solas falls asleep.

 

Elven civilization collapsing without Fade-dependent infrastructure and god-kings. Tevinter rises, strikes alliance with Dwarves.

 

Tevinter (and possibly Dwaves- consider later Dwarven annihalation of elven refugees) wage war on elven civilization. Tevinter implicitly at urging of Old Gods. Possible motivation, besides greed- revenge. Arlthan under siege.

 

Arlathan 'sunk into the Earth.' (Titan influence? Primevial Thaig?) Sundermount among the last great stands of the ancient elves.

 

Elves conquered and enslaved. Remnants of elven civilization assimilated into Tevinter culture, with elven influences purged. Rise of the Imperium as dominant power of Thedas.

 

Tevinter and Dwarves keep uneasy but stable division of Thedas: Tevinter gets the surface, Dwarves get below. Dwarves provide covert support to tribals resisting Tevinter, but secretly.

 

At urging of old gods, Corypheus and Magisters go to the Golden City. Are infected by the elven-stored Blight, are drawn into the Deep Roads. The First Blight begins after finding Dumat.

 

First Blight. Dwarven civilization falls. In the emergency, Dwarves or Orzammar become dependent on lyrium for survival. The Memories and Shaparate records are altered to remove theological restraints.

 

First Blight ends with Dumat slain. A year later, Andraste is born. The First Warden who slew Dumat has his armor found in Ferelden, Andraste's birth place.

 

Andraste rises and leads a slave rebellion and tribal invasion against Tevinter. A possible Old God Child, the Andraste performs miracles beyond mere magic and gives glory to the Maker. The Andrastian Era begins.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, clearly in the codex entries from Trespasser, there are elves and there are spirits. The elves can go between the material and immaterial, and some are so powerful they are godlike, but not all spirits are elves stuck in the Fade. Maybe some are, as the dead do cross the Fade and Imshael and Friends were once material beings... or at least it is said they could take material shape, but were forbidden to by the elf gods as punishment.

 

 

The Baronness makes more sense now... I was right! She became a demon!

I never gave that too much credence before, but knowing what we do now I think it's possible. There was already a thin line, considering how they interfaced with people, but. Solas's 'spirits are people to' might be more than just personal bias. If spirits can become more human after interacting with the human world, it would stand to reason that people can become more like spirits when interacting with the Fade... and that has some implications for Solas himself.

 

Tell me you can't see this text on demons in a new light after reading about Solas- I mean, Pride.

 

Codex text

Why do demons seek to possess the living?

History claims they are malevolent spirits, the first children of the Maker, angry at their creator for turning from them and jealous of those creations he considered superior. They stare across the Veil at the living and do not understand what they see, yet they know they crave it. They desire life, they pull the living across the Veil when they sleep and prey on their psyche with nightmares. Whenever they can, they cross the Veil into our world to possess it outright.

We know that any demon will seek to possess a mage, and upon doing so will create an abomination. Most of the world does not know, however, that the strength of an abomination depends entirely on the power of the demon that possesses the mage. This is true, in fact, of all possessed creatures. One demon is not the same as any other.

Demons can, for instance, be classified. Enchanter Brahm's categorization of demons into that portion of the psyche they primarily prey upon has held since the Tower Age.

According to Brahm, the weakest and most common of demons are those of rage. They are the least intelligent and most prone to violent outbursts against the living. They expend their energies quickly, the most powerful of them exhibiting great strength and occasionally the ability to generate fire.

Next are the demons of hunger. In a living host they become cannibals and vampires, and within the dead they feed upon the living. Theirs are the powers of draining, both of life force and of mana.

Next are the demons of sloth, the first on Brahm's scale that are capable of true intelligence. In its true form, this demon is known as a shade, a thing which is nearly indistinct and invisible, for such is sloth's nature. It hides and stalks, unaware, and when confronted, it sows fatigue and apathy.

Demons of desire are amongst the most powerful, and are the ones most likely to seek out the living and actively trick them into a deal. These demons will exploit anything that can be coveted—wealth, power, lust—and they will always end up getting far more than they give. A desire demon's province is that of illusions and mind control.

 

Strongest of all demons are those of pride. These are the most feared creatures to loose upon the world: Masters of magic and in possession of vast intellect, they are the true schemers. It is they who seek most strongly to possess mages, and will bring other demons across the Veil in numbers to achieve their own ends—although what that might be has never been discovered. A greater pride demon, brought across the veil, would threaten the entire world.

 

--From The Maker's First Children, by Bader, Senior Enchanter of Ostwick, 8:12 Blessed.

 

 

 

Here's a question: is Solas a greater pride demon, or close enough that it should be considered?

[themageguy]

'Freeing' them might be a bit propogandistic. Remember the source.

But there does seem to be indication now that the Elves meddled with and had a hand in the rise of the modern dwarves. In the Temple of Mythal, one of the post-Well reliefs that you can read talks about how the Elves are fighting the 'soulless' creatures of the Earth, even as they hunt the pillars (Titans). We know this pre-Dwarven proto-Dwarf was distinct from the modern Dwarves, whose earliest history included allying with Tevinter (who, and this may take new light, sunk Arlathan into the ground), but there was never a clear transition point.

Now there is.


My guestimate of Thedasian pre-history:


In the beginning, there were spirits, elves, and the Titans. Spirits were everywhere, elves were immortal and had been as far as anyone remembers, and the Titans shaped the world (or at least Thedas).

Elven civilization rose. At first, there were no gods.

There was a war, and the elven gods were generals who won. The Generals took power and rulership, and spheres of influence.

The Titans shaping Thedas and creating the Deep Roads threatened the cities and elven civilization. The Titans were tended to by the first Dwarves, who were 'soulless.'

The elves gathered to wage war against the Titans, who may be the Forgotten Ones. The Forbidden Ones were important spirits who sat out the war. Various Dalish legends were born, like the armor of the void born from lyrium, and possibly the Blight itself.

The elves won the war with the Titans. Mythal gave the dwarves 'dreams', someone did something to make the Titans/Dwarves forget the conflict, and the modern dwarf civilization began. Dwarves may still be aware of Titans at this point.

The elven gods began to go mad with power and compete amongst themselves. Power struggle leads to arms race: implicit preparation and storage of the Blight in the Golden City, possible creation of races. (Qunari are created, head north to Qunari continent. Humans come south. Both races possibly an extension of Mythal's uplift of the Dwarves.)

Power struggle intensifies. Mythal was murdered in betrayal, kicking off civil war/slave uprising. Elven civilization is in chaos.

Solas betrays elven gods, raises the veil. The gods are sealed, the spirits banished, and magic and immortality is lost. Titans fall asleep- and possibly implicitly as pre-planned prisons for the Elven/Old Gods (part of cooperation of Dwarves/Titans with Solas? The 'Dread Wolf walks with both sides' myth?). Solas falls asleep.

Elven civilization collapsing without Fade-dependent infrastructure and god-kings. Tevinter rises, strikes alliance with Dwarves.

Tevinter (and possibly Dwaves- consider later Dwarven annihalation of elven refugees) wage war on elven civilization. Tevinter implicitly at urging of Old Gods. Possible motivation, besides greed- revenge. Arlthan under siege.

Arlathan 'sunk into the Earth.' (Titan influence? Primevial Thaig?) Sundermount among the last great stands of the ancient elves.

Elves conquered and enslaved. Remnants of elven civilization assimilated into Tevinter culture, with elven influences purged. Rise of the Imperium as dominant power of Thedas.

Tevinter and Dwarves keep uneasy but stable division of Thedas: Tevinter gets the surface, Dwarves get below. Dwarves provide covert support to tribals resisting Tevinter, but secretly.

At urging of old gods, Corypheus and Magisters go to the Golden City. Are infected by the elven-stored Blight, are drawn into the Deep Roads. The First Blight begins after finding Dumat.

First Blight. Dwarven civilization falls. In the emergency, Dwarves or Orzammar become dependent on lyrium for survival. The Memories and Shaparate records are altered to remove theological restraints.

First Blight ends with Dumat slain. A year later, Andraste is born. The First Warden who slew Dumat has his armor found in Ferelden, Andraste's birth place.

Andraste rises and leads a slave rebellion and tribal invasion against Tevinter. A possible Old God Child, the Andraste performs miracles beyond mere magic and gives glory to the Maker. The Andrastian Era begins.

I approve

[Ranadiel Marius]

The elves gathered to wage war against the Titans, who may be the Forgotten Ones. The Forbidden Ones were important spirits who sat out the war. Various Dalish legends were born, like the armor of the void born from lyrium, and possibly the Blight itself.

Forgotten Ones are Elvhes who disbelieved in the claim that the Evanuris were Gods (see Geldauran's Claim codex entry). Additionally, I think that the Evanuris ascended to godhood before Mythal hunted the Titans (and she may have been the only one to hunt the Titans, well her and Solas). My reasoning is that Mythal's followers prepared to hunt the Titans at the Temple of Mythal, meaning Mythal was already being worshipped when hunting the Titans. Therefore, I would put the war that the Forbidden Ones avoided as being before the Titans were hunted.

Also I want to point out that the bit regarding the Elvhes preparing to hunt the Pillars of the Earth makes mention of it being to make the land bloom. Further the new Tresspasser codex makes mention of vines growing over a sphere of fire when the Titan was killed aka something grew. So Mythal's hunt was likely to create somethi...oh ****.

What if Mythal created the world by killing a Titan and prior to that the Elvhen cities were just floating above nothing. O.o

Here's a question: is Solas a greater pride demon, or close enough that it should be considered?

No because he still has the complexities that make him more than just a single minded concept. However Pride Demons may (intentionally or otherwise) be imitating the darker aspects of Solas.

[Stark777]

Well, I don't think the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are the same. After all, Imshael, Xebenkeck and the other one didn´t seem THAT powerful

 

 

For me it would make more sense if the Forgotten Ones turned to be the Old Gods. If I remember correctly the legend says that Fen'Harel trapped the Creators (Mythal, Elgar'nan, etc.) in the heaven and the Forgotten Ones in the abyss. Maybe the heaven in this legend is the Fade and the abyss is deep inside the Earth.

[Eelectrica]

Have to check that next play through.

No matter how thorough I try to be, their's always something that is missed.

[Dean_the_Young]

Forgotten Ones are Elvhes who disbelieved in the claim that the Evanuris were Gods (see Geldauran's Claim codex entry). Additionally, I think that the Evanuris ascended to godhood before Mythal hunted the Titans (and she may have been the only one to hunt the Titans, well her and Solas). My reasoning is that Mythal's followers prepared to hunt the Titans at the Temple of Mythal, meaning Mythal was already being worshipped when hunting the Titans. Therefore, I would put the war that the Forbidden Ones avoided as being before the Titans were hunted.

Also I want to point out that the bit regarding the Elvhes preparing to hunt the Pillars of the Earth makes mention of it being to make the land bloom. Further the new Tresspasser codex makes mention of vines growing over a sphere of fire when the Titan was killed aka something grew. So Mythal's hunt was likely to create somethi...oh ****.

What if Mythal created the world by killing a Titan and prior to that the Elvhen cities were just floating above nothing. O.o
 

 

No. What lore we have establishes that the world existed and pre-dated the elven gods, and the Titans cultivating it was a basis for ancient elf-dwarf conflict. Mythal didn't create the earth.
 

 

No because he still has the complexities that make him more than just a single minded concept. However Pride Demons may (intentionally or otherwise) be imitating the darker aspects of Solas.

 

 

Cole and Justice are demonstrations of how spirits aren't 'just' single-minded concepts once they encounter the real world- especially Cole on the human path. When the Fade and the Real World blend, the spirits take more nuance and complexity that they lack in the Fade. Likewise, people who get tied into the Fade (especially abominations) become more driven/dominated by an aspect, even as they still retain nuance of the Fade Influence: Anders is a good example.

[Fearsome1]

He was using Mythal as an example, but he seemed to be referring to the Evanuris in general when he said "the first of my people do not die easy"

 

I'm not sure what that means, but I find it interesting to speculate.

 

This is exactly how I took his meaning!!