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Trespasser Confirmed: "Pillars of the Earth" ARE the Titans


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#101
ApostleinTriumph

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Maybe, maybe not. To say it is the Titan's blood is probably more of an analogy.... I'm just guessing, though.

 

Here we go people, Red Lyrium Reapers are coming!

 

We know that the Blight is alien to Thedas, and most likely comes from the Fade, as people have said. What if the Evanuris created it as a biological weapon to assist them during the war?



#102
Ranadiel Marius

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No. What lore we have establishes that the world existed and pre-dated the elven gods, and the Titans cultivating it was a basis for ancient elf-dwarf conflict. Mythal didn't create the earth.

Where is it established that the physical world predates the Evanuris? We really have next to nothing about the world (Fade or physical) prior to the ascension of the Evanuris other than the Evanuris won a war against an unknown enemy.

I see no evidence that the Titans cultivating the land brought the Titans in conflict with the Evanuris. Mythal hunted the Titans to make the Earth bloom that does not sound like someone trying to stop destruction to me.

Cole and Justice are demonstrations of how spirits aren't 'just' single-minded concepts once they encounter the real world- especially Cole on the human path. When the Fade and the Real World blend, the spirits take more nuance and complexity that they lack in the Fade. Likewise, people who get tied into the Fade (especially abominations) become more driven/dominated by an aspect, even as they still retain nuance of the Fade Influence: Anders is a good example.

Cole on the human path isn't a spirit anymore. Or at least I would classify him as human and not a spirit.

Justice (or more accurately Vengence) is the perfect example of a spirit in the non-fade world. He is incapable of comprehending any nuance to his ideals and is broken as a result as the world recused to change to meet his expectation. Vengence never gains nuance and is incapable of functioning as a result. Solas on the other hand is capable of such nuance as seen by his desire to be proven wrong yet again (at least if you friend him.

Anders is an interesting case. On the friendship path, he sort of becomes subsumed by Justice. I'm not really sure if he would qualify as a spirit at that point or not.

#103
solomon.kosin

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Well, I don't think the Forbidden Ones and the Forgotten Ones are the same. After all, Imshael, Xebenkeck and the other one didn´t seem THAT powerful


For me it would make more sense if the Forgotten Ones turned to be the Old Gods. If I remember correctly the legend says that Fen'Harel trapped the Creators (Mythal, Elgar'nan, etc.) in the heaven and the Forgotten Ones in the abyss. Maybe the heaven in this legend is the Fade and the abyss is deep inside the Earth.


That is accirding to dalish legends, who still take Evanuris as gods. But from Solas percpective Evanuris were evil, so what if he trapped Creators in the abyss and Forgotten ones in heaven( fade)? There is codex about Fen'Harel saying that Forgotten ones whisper to elves in their dreams, just like fade demons do
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#104
Stark777

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That is accirding to dalish legends, who still take Evanuris as gods. But from Solas percpective Evanuris were evil, so what if he trapped Creators in the abyss and Forgotten ones in heaven( fade)? There is codex about Fen'Harel saying that Forgotten ones whisper to elves in their dreams, just like fade demons do

 

 

Old Gods also whispered in the ear of the magisters from deep inside the Earth...

 

 

And we know for a fact that Solas had to create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris, I don´t think he needed the Veil to imprison anybody within the Earth in the material world. So for me it's pretty much clear that the Evanuris are in the Fade or in a different plane like the Crossroads, but not in the physical world of Thedas.



#105
Boobasaurus

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Where is it established that the physical world predates the Evanuris? We really have next to nothing about the world (Fade or physical) prior to the ascension of the Evanuris other than the Evanuris won a war against an unknown enemy.

 

I think this post will answer some of your questions.  ;)

 

http://forum.bioware...ory/?p=19673183



#106
solomon.kosin

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Old Gods also whispered in the ear of the magisters from deep inside the Earth...


And we know for a fact that Solas had to create the Veil to imprison the Evanuris, I don´t think he needed the Veil to imprison anybody within the Earth in the material world. So for me it's pretty much clear that the Evanuris are in the Fade or in a different plane like the Crossroads, but not in the physical world of Thedas.


I think the veil works bothsides. The fade is a source of magical power and the veil blocks it so those who are imprisoned in the material world could not get access to the needed amount of magic to release themselves.

#107
Stark777

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I think the veil works bothsides. The fade is a source of magical power and the veil blocks it so those who are imprisoned in the material world could not get access to the needed amount of magic to release themselves.

 

 

Solas and Flemeth seem very powerful though, even with the Veil. And Flemeth had just a fraction of the original power of Mythal, who knows exactly how powerful is Solas now...

 

 

I still believe that it makes more sense for the Old Gods to be the Forgotten Ones (if any) and not the Evanuris, but we shall see. At this point everything is possible



#108
Feybrad

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You know, I really want to see a Titan in Action. Either in a "Shadow of the Colossus"-Situation as a tragic Monster or even better, as an Ally you can get out there as the ultimate Weapon.



#109
Aulis Vaara

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And if the Black City was an elven city or a place that was part of this that held that corruption, then was locked into the fade, then what happen to the magisters makes perfect sense.


How would that even work without a Veil to lock away the Fade?

#110
Daerog

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There is the material and immaterial. Earth and the Fade. There is a barrier between the two, and later the Veil was made on that barrier. The crossroads was on that barrier, or in it. How does something that is constant, like the Black City, exist in the Fade?

 

The Fade and Earth were always separate, but the elves could easily cross between the two ways of being present in reality, with little trouble crossing that metaphysical barrier. Now a Veil is up and they can't shift as easily between the two ways of being present.

 

The Black City is still as mysterious as ever; however, I'm not convinced that the blight itself was locked away or comes from there. The blight is possibly far older than the magisters, and has possibly been deep in the earth long before the Golden City turned Black.



#111
Heimdall

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The Fade and Earth were always separate, but the elves could easily cross between the two ways of being present in reality, with little trouble crossing that metaphysical barrier. Now a Veil is up and they can't shift as easily between the two ways of being present.

 

We don't have evidence they could physically shift, but they could no doubt travel there through dreams effortlessly.



#112
Daerog

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We don't have evidence they could physically shift, but they could no doubt travel there through dreams effortlessly.

 

Well, the elf gods could and they were able to deny the forbidden/forgotten/whoever from becoming material again. The one codex entry about the elf lovers made it sound like they were getting intimate in a more metaphysical sense. It was also normal for spirits and material beings to converse.

 

The way the codex entries were written, it just seems like the elves were children of both "realms" who had no problem going back and forth, but then the Veil happened, and we have elves that were stuck in Earth and the Crossroads, and we have ascended elves (?) who were imprisoned somewhere and Xeb with its friends thrown into the Fade, waiting to find a way back into the material world.



#113
AresKeith

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And the Maker is just chilling

"Not My problem."

 

Seriously tough, Andraste and Solas both rebelled against tyrannical mages.

 

Solas could not have been the Maker or Shartan because he admits to having been asleep until the Dragon Age. But I wonder if there is a connection.

 

 

The Maker is just waiting for the moment to strike all those false Gods down :P



#114
Abelis

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Murder of Mythal leads to Solas starting a civil war.

I think he said the murder of mythal made him decide to put the veil up, as she was the only voice among them keeping a relative balance and caring/protecting the people. The civil war was probably already happening or happened

 

*Edit: ehmm sorry i think i have my lore mixed up, now that i read through various posts*



#115
solomon.kosin

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We don't have evidence they could physically shift, but they could no doubt travel there through dreams effortlessly.

 

There is a dialogue with Solas if he was in the fade, which implies that in non-human story, someone has entered fade physically and maybe not once

 

  • Dorian: I can't believe you entered the Fade. Physically.
  • Solas: You think that is an achievement of which to be proud?
  • Dorian: It's the second time that's been done in all of history. That's not nothing, Solas.
  • Solas: In all of human history.


#116
solomon.kosin

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The Maker is just waiting for the moment to strike all those false Gods down :P

 

Solas says about teh the Maker that " I'm open to new ideas".That seems like...Maker is something humans just invented, a new idea of how the world was created, but not the truth


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#117
Neoleviathan

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This mural has me thinking. Maybe most of the islands & the Black city we see in the fade is actually what is left of the Titan Mythal killed? She split the titan with veilfire, & sent it to the Fade. The black city is the titan's head.

Spoiler

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#118
SwobyJ

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Solas says about teh the Maker that " I'm open to new ideas".That seems like...Maker is something humans just invented, a new idea of how the world was created, but not the truth

 

But we can make it reallllllllll and existing beyond time and therefore always existing (but never being proven?)!

 

Singgggggggg the chant!



#119
azarhal

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Solas says about teh the Maker that " I'm open to new ideas".That seems like...Maker is something humans just invented, a new idea of how the world was created, but not the truth

 

It wasn't necessarily created by humans outside of using the name Maker to describe it and that is basically post-Andraste. Gaider mentioned it a few years ago in a post somewhere. Even in Tevinter, the creation myth was attributed to a single entity even if nobody worshiped him. Considering Tevinter is a copy-pasta of Ancient Elven society, it probably mean the creation myth was imported as well but everyone was too busy with the Enuvaris to care.



#120
solomon.kosin

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It wasn't necessarily created by humans outside of using the name Maker to describe it and that is basically post-Andraste. Gaider mentioned it a few years ago in a post somewhere. Even in Tevinter, the creation myth was attributed to a single entity even if nobody worshiped him. Considering Tevinter is a copy-pasta of Ancient Elven society, it probably mean the creation myth was imported as well but everyone was too busy with the Enuvaris to care.

 

I would still laugh so hard if it turns out that there is no, and has never been a Maker in Andrastian way of understanding it



#121
BansheeOwnage

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You know, Cole makes some remark in this dlc that goes, "It created them, but they became afraid and fought back. Then It made them forget."

 

Idk to what he is referring.

The Stone to the dwarves or Titans, maybe?

 

Ah, here is that Elgar'nan bit:

 

"Song to Elgar'nan

 

Elgar'nan, Wrath and Thunder,

Give us glory.

Give us victory, over the Earth that shakes our cities.

Strike the usurpers with your lightening.

Burn the ground under your gaze.

Bring winged death against those who throw down our work.

Elgar'nan, help us tame the land."

 

Found in Temple  of Mythal-author unknown

 

So, we have reference to the earth shaking their cities and bringing winged death.

That's very fitting, considering Elgar'nan is depicted as the sun, and dwarves live underground, forbidden from being in the sun's gaze. And the dwarves lose their stone-sense on the surface, so maybe that actually holds somewhat true?



#122
BansheeOwnage

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Ok, here is my theory:

 

Is that the black city is Arlathan itself. There is an tale that Andruil went to the void, the place were the forgotten ones dwell, and found a corruption that gave her great power, and she made an armor made of that corruption, and in her wars for power, Andruil spread great misery and plagues. Andruil brought the taint, the blight. And in that war Arlathan was corrupted. When Solas created the veil the trap the elven gods, he also use it as an way to keep the corrupted city away, hence, the black city was born.

 

Also, the legend says the dread wolf trapped the forgotten ones in the abyss. I believe it means the old gods in the deep roads.

I'm very curious to see what The Void is, and how Andruil got there. There are apparently creatures there, since she hunted them. It must be where the blight originated. For some reason I forgot she spread plagues, so that fits too. Ah, the abyss is the deep roads, or beyond. That makes sense!

 

There's nothing in the lore about Arlathan being corrupted and we know it still existed in Thedas at the time of the Imperium, they laid siege to it and sunk it beneath the earth when that proved two costly. Plus, the city is known to have appeared Golden prior to the arrival of the Magisters.

As previously said, that's not true, it was destroyed from within. My personal theory is that it is in the fade, forced there when the veil formed like the Great Library, since they were both magically-powered/held together. I also think it's the Black city, but it needn't be. That would also explain why people thought it must have sunken into the ground, since it disappeared so seamlessly.

 

As for the Golden City, it's still possible it's Arlathan, and the blight was contained within, then when the magisters breached it, they released the corruption and it turned black. Then they brought it with them to the material world. I think there was still blight in the material world at that point brought by Andruil, but not much, and only in the deep. When the magisters brought it back, it allowed it to spread faster and ended up causing blights.



#123
BansheeOwnage

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I think he was just going by the technical definition of the term.  Immortality technically means unable to die, not just agelessness.

Actually, that's exactly what immortality means. Agelessness. Being unable to be harmed is invulnerability, and being unable to be defeated is invincibility.



#124
Solas

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I think the Evanuris and their greedy mining of the Titans' bodies for lyrium and 'something else'... 

Mythal is said to have claimed the Titans’ “Demesne” for the People. Demesne basically means land or an estate that someone is the master/lord of. So the People stood to gain.. if not literally land, it’s a metaphor for Good Useful Valuable **** ('the something else'?), from the defeat of the Titans.

 

then the codex 'we made bodies of the earth' - armor, of lyrium and 'something else'-kinda deal, see Andruil's Armor of the Void

and the reference to Evanuris going to destroy the world, and elves beseeching others to not listen to them and collapsing Deep Roads tunnels and blocking them because something Bad was coming..

 

Evanuris mined too hard and like unleashed the blight or some such. 

They delved too greedily and too deep.. you know what they awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dûm… shadow and flame. 

you know or something. :P


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#125
Wahed89

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I don't know how on topic this is but I was just playing a new play through and was speaking to Cole about Templars. He made a comment about how they feel a particular way, something to do with the lyrium they use, that lets them repel magic. He then says it's the same for Varric. I wish I knew exactly what it said but my first impression was that thought was that it has something to do with the Titans.

Then it could have been nothing too.
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