205 réponses à ce sujet

[solomon.kosin]

Hope they will issue a pair of books with TON of insights or I'd die of curiosity before the game is released. Ans then my spirit will go to Fade, where it will linger to find Solas and demand answers from him

[cygnata]

... What if the Forgotten ones are the Dwarven gods? Or the Titans themselves?

[TEWR]

yup, I called this just after Descent but before Trespasser -- that the Titans were the pillars of the Earth.

 

When it comes to Dwarves, I am the authority to go to.

[ZerebusPrime]

And then I noticed the eye symbol on the head of that dead titan.  We've seen that one before, haven't we?  Scrawled in blood and repeated over and over and over across entire walls, IIRC.

[leaguer of one]

And then I noticed the eye symbol on the head of that dead titan.  We've seen that one before, haven't we?  Scrawled in blood and repeated over and over and over across entire walls, IIRC.

Near red lyrium...

[Cobra's_back]

Demense essentially means land right? So Mythal defeated the Titans and gave the People their land, which is the Deep Roads. That explains the Deep Roads section of Trespasser, which was filled with statues of Mythal and Fen'Harel, but it had also clearly been made by dwarves.

 

Not sure what the vines signify, nor why the elven Deep Roads suddenly became too dangerous. Perhaps the Titans created Red Lyrium and the Blight in order to destroy the People? It could have infected Arlathan/Black City, which Solas then locked away in the Fade when he created the Veil, leading people to believe that the Black City was the origin of the Blight.

 

The final sentence is probably Solas.

 

This doesn't explain however, the relationship of the dwarves to the Elves. Were they created by the Titans? Were they enslaved by the Elves?

I believe the dwarves "children of the stone" were created by the titans and probably enslaved by the Elves.

[Heimdall]

I believe the dwarves "children of the stone" were created by the titans and probably enslaved by the Elves.

Enslaved?  It might have actually been the opposite.  Trespasser talks about Mythal giving the dwarves dreams, implying that they weren't originally linked to the Fade.  A carving in her temple also mentions the Titans' "soulless" servants.  It sounds to me like the elves were the ones that freed the dwarves from a tranquil existence in service to the Titans and gave them access to emotions.

[ZerebusPrime]

And then I noticed the eye symbol on the head of that dead titan.  We've seen that one before, haven't we?  Scrawled in blood and repeated over and over and over across entire walls, IIRC.

Near red lyrium...

 

Implying that either the Blight is driving someone to draw those eyes or the red lyrium is shaping the area around it to have those eyes... because the Blight drove it to.

 

It is stated in codex entries that the elves thought the Titan's servants to be soulless.  The elves seem to have done something to make dwarves as they are today.  Meanwhile, Darkspawn are canonically soulless.  

 

Chalk this up to the growing pile of evidence that the Blight is some form of Titan Mad Cow Disease.

[Cobra's_back]

And if the Black City was an elven city or a place that was part of this that held that corruption, then was locked into the fade, then what happen to the magisters makes perfect sense.

Makes sense and the city was black because a dead Titan corrupted it? The old gods wanted the magisters to go to the golden city and overthrow the elven gods? Really looking forward to another DA book or DA game.

[Cobra's_back]

Solas says Cory discovered "effective" immortality, implying that it is not true immortality as he understood it, and Solas says that the elves were once truly immortal, before the Veil... probably due to their nature of being able to cross between the material and immaterial world so easily... the Veil stops that, and they are stuck in the material, even though they are children of both worlds in a way...

 

So... is this supposed to explain their "adaptive" genes? They were supposed to be able to manipulate their form/shape due to their nature of being inhabitants of the Fade and Earth?

Could it be they started as spirits?

[Dean_the_Young]

And then I noticed the eye symbol on the head of that dead titan.  We've seen that one before, haven't we?  Scrawled in blood and repeated over and over and over across entire walls, IIRC.

 

I'm not catching it- where are you talking about?

[Cobra's_back]

I never gave that too much credence before, but knowing what we do now I think it's possible. There was already a thin line, considering how they interfaced with people, but. Solas's 'spirits are people to' might be more than just personal bias. If spirits can become more human after interacting with the human world, it would stand to reason that people can become more like spirits when interacting with the Fade... and that has some implications for Solas himself.

 

Tell me you can't see this text on demons in a new light after reading about Solas- I mean, Pride.

 

Codex text

Why do demons seek to possess the living?

History claims they are malevolent spirits, the first children of the Maker, angry at their creator for turning from them and jealous of those creations he considered superior. They stare across the Veil at the living and do not understand what they see, yet they know they crave it. They desire life, they pull the living across the Veil when they sleep and prey on their psyche with nightmares. Whenever they can, they cross the Veil into our world to possess it outright.

We know that any demon will seek to possess a mage, and upon doing so will create an abomination. Most of the world does not know, however, that the strength of an abomination depends entirely on the power of the demon that possesses the mage. This is true, in fact, of all possessed creatures. One demon is not the same as any other.

Demons can, for instance, be classified. Enchanter Brahm's categorization of demons into that portion of the psyche they primarily prey upon has held since the Tower Age.

According to Brahm, the weakest and most common of demons are those of rage. They are the least intelligent and most prone to violent outbursts against the living. They expend their energies quickly, the most powerful of them exhibiting great strength and occasionally the ability to generate fire.

Next are the demons of hunger. In a living host they become cannibals and vampires, and within the dead they feed upon the living. Theirs are the powers of draining, both of life force and of mana.

Next are the demons of sloth, the first on Brahm's scale that are capable of true intelligence. In its true form, this demon is known as a shade, a thing which is nearly indistinct and invisible, for such is sloth's nature. It hides and stalks, unaware, and when confronted, it sows fatigue and apathy.

Demons of desire are amongst the most powerful, and are the ones most likely to seek out the living and actively trick them into a deal. These demons will exploit anything that can be coveted—wealth, power, lust—and they will always end up getting far more than they give. A desire demon's province is that of illusions and mind control.

 

Strongest of all demons are those of pride. These are the most feared creatures to loose upon the world: Masters of magic and in possession of vast intellect, they are the true schemers. It is they who seek most strongly to possess mages, and will bring other demons across the Veil in numbers to achieve their own ends—although what that might be has never been discovered. A greater pride demon, brought across the veil, would threaten the entire world.

 

--From The Maker's First Children, by Bader, Senior Enchanter of Ostwick, 8:12 Blessed.

 

 

 

Here's a question: is Solas a greater pride demon, or close enough that it should be considered?

He could be. In the end of Trespassers, he tells his lover he doesn't want her to see what he must become. I thought that some of these elves may have started as spirits and that is why they brought in Cole. Cole shows us that a spirit can take on a real form on their own. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Enslaved?  It might have actually been the opposite.  Trespasser talks about Mythal giving the dwarves dreams, implying that they weren't originally linked to the Fade.  A carving in her temple also mentions the Titans' "soulless" servants.  It sounds to me like the elves were the ones that freed the dwarves from a tranquil existence in service to the Titans and gave them access to emotions.

 

I'm not sure I'd call it 'freed'- that implies they were saved. Tranquil-ish they might have been, but the proto-Dwarves seem to have been symbiots with the Titans, and the suggestions we get in 'Descent' is that the Titans cared for them.

 

But yes- the Ancient Elves seem to have had a penchant for creating/altering species. Not only the Goddess who made all the monsters, but Dwarves (given dreams), possibly humans (depending on how the 'first' started), possibly Qunari (who seem to have been a 'created' race), and very likely the Darkspawn (a product of the golden city, which may have been a place of elven power).

[ZerebusPrime]

I'm not catching it- where are you talking about?

 

Picture from page one:

 

Note the section above the neck.  It's a severed head with a glowing eye symbol.

[leaguer of one]

And then I noticed the eye symbol on the head of that dead titan.  We've seen that one before, haven't we?  Scrawled in blood and repeated over and over and over across entire walls, IIRC.

ZerebusPrime, do you have a pick of eye drawn blood or could give me a reminder of were it's at. I have a theory I want to cheack. It deals with the Visus Constellation.

 

[Former_Fiend]

 
 
That might be possible, but I don't see how a warden's armor turning up in Fereldan means a Dark Ritual was performed. I don't actually remember finding that armor, what was it?

 

http://dragonage.wik...tinel_armor_set

 

Haven't read through the whole of this thread to know if that was answered or not, but there it is. Of course, the armor showing up in Ferelden 1200 years later doesn't mean a whole lot; that's a lot of time for it to be moved.

 

That being said, while I'm not 100% on the idea of Andraste being an OGB, I've always suspected that a Dark Ritual had been performed at least once before the Fifth Blight because, well, how can could Flemeth and Morrigan be completely sure it would work if it hadn't been done before? Magical theory is all well and good but there was a certainty from them that made me think that one of them had to know that this was more than theory; that it had been proven.

 

And Dumat would be a good candidate. We know who killed Zazikel and Andoral, but the name of the Warden who killed Dumat is specifically lost to time. Toth's killer also isn't listed, but that could just be revealed information. 

 

I had previously theorized that Flemeth might have been an OGB with Toth's soul; she's officially listed as being born ten years before his awakening, but I figured that between the Blight's destroying records and so much of Flemeth's tail being obscured in legend, that even twenty five years of leeway in terms of dates was plausible. Of course we've since learned, more or less, what Flemeth is, so that theory's bust.

 

In any event, if a Dark Ritual had been performed before - which I still think it has - it was either for Dumat or Toth, and it would be easier to get away with Dumat.

[leaguer of one]

http://dragonage.wik...tinel_armor_set

 

Haven't read through the whole of this thread to know if that was answered or not, but there it is. Of course, the armor showing up in Ferelden 1200 years later doesn't mean a whole lot; that's a lot of time for it to be moved.

 

True but...how you get the peices is bonkers. So bonker it make you ask how it got there in the first place.

 

Chest piece from a darkspawn. Helmet and gauntlet's in a fade sealed  treasure chest. Boot from along dead Avvar lord.

 

Just Wow...

[Former_Fiend]

True but...how you get the peices is bonkers. So bonker it make you ask how it got there in the first place.

 

Chest piece from a darkspawn. Helmet and gauntlet's in a fade sealed  treasure chest. Boot from along dead Avvar lord.

 

Just Wow...

 

True. The First having a piece might be a connection to the Architect, which could make some sense in how it got moved if the Architect is one of the seven magisters; they were active during and after the first Blight. 

 

Of course, the rest... I think it's safe to say that a whole lot of thought wasn't put into the set's placement from a lore standpoint.

[leaguer of one]

True. The First having a piece might be a connection to the Architect, which could make some sense in how it got moved if the Architect is one of the seven magisters; they were active during and after the first Blight. 

 

Of course, the rest... I think it's safe to say that a whole lot of thought wasn't put into the set's placement from a lore standpoint.

I thinking half and half on that but you have to give a relevance to the avvar lord with the boots. Those things were there from the time of Andraste. The rest....that has to be one bizzare reason how they got there or it just the dev team making stuff up.

[Former_Fiend]

I imagine if the armor being there has any real relevance at all, and it gets brought up again, it'll get a soft retcon and go with one explanation or the other; either it was in Avvar possession or the Architect brought it with him and gloss over the rest. 

[Ariella]

He could be. In the end of Trespassers, he tells his lover he doesn't want her to see what he must become. I thought that some of these elves may have started as spirits and that is why they brought in Cole. Cole shows us that a spirit can take on a real form on their own.

Or it could just be that Solas knows he's taking a dark path, and knows it will make him a monster in the figurative sense, not the literal one.

"Beware you who fight with monsters, should see to it that you do not become a monster, for when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."- Neitzsche

[In Exile]

Enslaved? It might have actually been the opposite. Trespasser talks about Mythal giving the dwarves dreams, implying that they weren't originally linked to the Fade. A carving in her temple also mentions the Titans' "soulless" servants. It sounds to me like the elves were the ones that freed the dwarves from a tranquil existence in service to the Titans and gave them access to emotions.

I think dwarves were more akin to constructs or an immune system of sorts. Look at what happens to our Descent guide after getting blasted by the Titan.

She hears music (ala a ghoul and darkspawn, who have a sort of hive mind). We know that the blight is tied to red lyrium (red lyrium has the blight). We further suspect that darkspawn don't have a "soul" in the traditional sense (whatever that means in Thedas) and we know the process through which they are birthed by brood mothers makes them different beings from the races that spawn them.

I think the dwarves were originally the darkspawn equivalent for a healthy titan - field by blue lyrium in the same way the blight fuels darkspawn and red lyrium.

[ZerebusPrime]

ZerebusPrime, do you have a pick of eye drawn blood or could give me a reminder of were it's at. I have a theory I want to cheack. It deals with the Visus Constellation.

 

I'm playing on an Xbox One without a Kinect system, so I don't know how to do screenshots.  I'll look around a bit and see if I can find some.  You know how it is, though: it's when I need to find an example of something that said examples hide the hardest.

[Reznore57]

I'm playing on an Xbox One without a Kinect system, so I don't know how to do screenshots.  I'll look around a bit and see if I can find some.  You know how it is, though: it's when I need to find an example of something that said examples hide the hardest.

 

I think you were talking about Therinfall reboubt perhaps.

Spoiler

  

[Heimdall]

I think dwarves were more akin to constructs or an immune system of sorts. Look at what happens to our Descent guide after getting blasted by the Titan.

She hears music (ala a ghoul and darkspawn, who have a sort of hive mind). We know that the blight is tied to red lyrium (red lyrium has the blight). We further suspect that darkspawn don't have a "soul" in the traditional sense (whatever that means in Thedas) and we know the process through which they are birthed by brood mothers makes them different beings from the races that spawn them.

I think the dwarves were originally the darkspawn equivalent for a healthy titan - field by blue lyrium in the same way the blight fuels darkspawn and red lyrium.

That's a very interesting idea, though my next question would be how this links to what happened to Cory and Co. when they went to the City.

 

Anyway, I guess the Shal Brytol (sp?) were dwarves trying to regain or maintain their connection to the Titan by encasing themselves in Lyrium armor?