56 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Here's a thread to focus on the implications for the Dalish of Solas's latest reveals. Not only is the Dread Wolf among us, but he's planning something very naughty*, and recruiting plenty of city elves to do it.

 

*For a value of 'naughty' that entails 'mass genocide'

 

So, with the city elves on board... what's next for the Dalish? Share your thoughts, or lore from Trespasser, or relevant tidbits on what you expect.

 

Will the Dalish buy in to the reclamation of the Glory of the Elves and support the Dread Wolf's ambition, especially at the comeuppance of the Shem?

 

Or will the Dalish reject the betrayer who caused their downfall, and whose plan would destroy their own traditions and way of life just as surely as the rest of Thedas?

 

 

 

 

My prediction- the next Dragon Age will show us just how divided the Dalish are as the clans split those lines. Revaunchists, racists, and those who don't realize/care that Solas's plan could kill them will flock to Solas. The more open-minded, forward thinking clans will not... as may less progressive actors. Keepers who like their positions of power aren't likely to approve of everyone becoming mages, after all- kind of undermines the Dalish power structure.

 

So I think we'll find the Dalish divided. Maybe a moral decision or two in which we can win over the Clans to oppose Solas. After a game that builds up the Dalish division and lead-in to Solas in the same way that DA2 was the lead-up to DAI.

 

 

 

But that's me. Thoughts for everyone else?

[Heimdall]

My prediction is that Solas is going to be looking for something more to boost his power, I don't think taking Mythal's was enough for him to achieve his goals.  And who's  been gathering and creating magical artifacts for past two millenia?  Tevinter.

 

Solas will probably try to swell his ranks by fomenting rebellion among the elven slaves, though I'm not sure where that leaves the human slaves (Remember, Tevinter slavery isn't racial)

 

I don't think we'll see any dalish.  Dorian mentioned that they don't have dalish in the north, they're concentrated in the south.

[ComedicSociopathy]

 

My prediction- the next Dragon Age will show us just how divided the Dalish are as the clans split those lines. Revaunchists, racists, and those who don't realize/care that Solas's plan could kill them will flock to Solas. The more open-minded, forward thinking clans will not... as may less progressive actors. Keepers who like their positions of power aren't likely to approve of everyone becoming mages, after all- kind of undermines the Dalish power structure.

 

So I think we'll find the Dalish divided. Maybe a moral decision or two in which we can win over the Clans to oppose Solas. After a game that builds up the Dalish division and lead-in to Solas in the same way that DA2 was the lead-up to DAI.

 

^^ This. The Dalish aren't a nation with a singular leader or even central agenda. Some want to reclaim the their elven glory, while others simply want to exist without being killed by humans on sight. While some will definitely see Solas as a literal godsend, others will denounce him as an insane monster. I mean, I for one can't see Merrill or Zevran going along with this, Velanna might though, and perhaps even Briala. Anyhow, yeah, I don't see ALL elves or even all the Dalish supporting him realistically. Then again, he was able to turn a few of the Inquisition's elven agents to his side even though they'll faced Corypehus and can clearly see what happens when crazy people try to remake the world, so who knows? 

 

I'm far more interested in how the revelations learned about the Creators will affect the Dalish. Not only are their gods definitively frauds, but they were also monstrous tyrants that killed one of their own and enslaved their own people. How traumatic would it be to realize that your beliefs and culture founded upon a lie?

 

I'd think that a how lot of Dalish are going to try and learn that vallaslin removal spell for sure. 

[Merengues 1945]

My prediction is that Solas is going to be looking for something more to boost his power, I don't think taking Mythal's was enough for him to achieve his goals.  And who's  been gathering and creating magical artifacts for past two millenia?  Tevinter.

 

Solas will probably try to swell his ranks by fomenting rebellion among the elven slaves, though I'm not sure where that leaves the human slaves (Remember, Tevinter slavery isn't racial)

 

I don't think we'll see any dalish.  Dorian mentioned that they don't have dalish in the north, they're concentrated in the south.

 

Now he knows that Qunari in their hypocrisy have been hoarding lots of magical relics from astrariums to hundreds of eluvians probably. He also seems to hate the Qun as it's not that different from slavery, hogwashing and pretty much everything wrong on his time. Him destroying the Qun by means of "turned" elves doesn't seem  like a long shot. He annihilates a bunch of arses and mage-haters and then recover all the magical artifacts.

 

I think some of the keepers like Sathrian would refuse Solas, given that it would take of their power, also some dalish are stubborn about the gods and how they interpret the lore and would be quite devastated to learn from someone who turns their beliefs into falsehood.

 

Some other keepers like Merril will quickly turn to Solas in their attempt to rebuild what was broken.

[Rekkampum]

Here's a thread to focus on the implications for the Dalish of Solas's latest reveals. Not only is the Dread Wolf among us, but he's planning something very naughty*, and recruiting plenty of city elves to do it.

 

*For a value of 'naughty' that entails 'mass genocide'

 

So, with the city elves on board... what's next for the Dalish? Share your thoughts, or lore from Trespasser, or relevant tidbits on what you expect.

 

Will the Dalish buy in to the reclamation of the Glory of the Elves and support the Dread Wolf's ambition, especially at the comeuppance of the Shem?

 

Or will the Dalish reject the betrayer who caused their downfall, and whose plan would destroy their own traditions and way of life just as surely as the rest of Thedas?

 

 

 

 

My prediction- the next Dragon Age will show us just how divided the Dalish are as the clans split those lines. Revaunchists, racists, and those who don't realize/care that Solas's plan could kill them will flock to Solas. The more open-minded, forward thinking clans will not... as may less progressive actors. Keepers who like their positions of power aren't likely to approve of everyone becoming mages, after all- kind of undermines the Dalish power structure.

 

So I think we'll find the Dalish divided. Maybe a moral decision or two in which we can win over the Clans to oppose Solas. After a game that builds up the Dalish division and lead-in to Solas in the same way that DA2 was the lead-up to DAI.

 

 

 

But that's me. Thoughts for everyone else?

 

Great prediction. I think it will definitely be a pretty complex situation as far as the Dalish are concerned. I think the notion, as City Elves learn more about Fen'Harel, will be very appealing to them given the status they have socially. My City Elf HoF still hates Shems, so she probably wouldn't have much of an issue with what Solas is doing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Will the Dalish buy in to the reclamation of the Glory of the Elves and support the Dread Wolf's ambition, especially at the comeuppance of the Shem?

At least some have. In the epilogue slide about the elves, we see a few with Vallaslin in the group. 

[TeaLulu]

the big question in the first place is,

 

Will the Inquisitor spread the truth about Fen'Harel and the gods? Or is it being spread by agents of Fen'Harel?

 

If you play an elf Inquisitor, has your clan already heard of this before the events of Trespasser? Have some of them left to join Fen'Harel? Did your Keeper try to tell you of it too, but the letter was intercepted?

 

Obviously word is getting out SOMEHOW, judging by the mass exodus of elves.

[Drasanil]

I'm far more interested in how the revelations learned about the Creators will affect the Dalish. Not only are their gods definitively frauds, but they were also monstrous tyrants that killed one of their own and enslaved their own people. How traumatic would it be to realize that your beliefs and culture founded upon a lie?

 

What revelations? The lies spun by Fen'Harel and his followers? The Dalish have absolutely no reason to believe anything coming from him.

[myahele]

I somehow doubt the Dalish elves will join in Fen'harels forces.

 

They were already suspicious of him way before the revelations. I can see them fight against Fen'harel since he's proof that if he's real then the legends are of the gods existence are real. They might just choose to believe that the gods and vallaslin might be propaganda/lies by Fen'harel's supporters

[TeaLulu]

I somehow doubt the Dalish elves will join in Fen'harels forces.

 

They were already suspicious of him way before the revelations. I can see them fight against Fen'harel since he's proof that if he's real then the legends are of the gods existence are real. They might just choose to believe that the gods and vallaslin might be propaganda/lies by Fen'harel's supporters

Obviously SOME of them believe him, since so many elves with vallaslin leave to join him.

 

Unless every single elf who joins him is secretly an "ancient" elf like Abelas was and are actually ancient survivors who were his original followers. But I highly doubt that. I suspect even his original followers were pissed as HELL when the veil went up.

[Mr.House]

What revelations? The lies spun by Fen'Harel and his followers? The Dalish have absolutely no reason to believe anything coming from him.

There's more evidence to support his claims then there is to support the dalish.

[Drasanil]

There's more evidence to support his claims then there is to support the dalish.

 

Not the point. Yes we see some evidence that supports his claims. But its not like the dalish have access to our meta-knowledge, all they'd really have to go on would be word of what is essentially their trickster devil. Why would they ever believe him? Even if he showed proof they'd still be liable to assume he made it up or is twisting it in some way to his own ends. 

[TeaLulu]

Not the point. Yes we see some evidence that supports his claims. But its not like the dalish have access to our meta-knowledge, all they'd really have to go on would be word of what is essentially their trickster devil. Why would they ever believe him? Even if he showed proof they'd still be liable to assume he made it up or is twisting it in some way to his own ends. 

`_` then why are there a bunch of dalish leaving the inquisition and possibly other places under mysterious circumstances and probably gathering to Fen'harel

[S.W.]

Definitely divided. Solas of all people (lol) notes how the dalish clans are each unique - which would make sense, the clans barely communicate with each other at all (they converge annually at most), and thus over several hundred years each has likely developed its own agenda and modus operandi based on what it has discovered, what it has found successful, and the individual elves involved. I can't imagine that kind of group taking a unified stance on a figure as divisive as the Dread Wolf.

 

As for joining Fen'Harel, I reckon some clans would leap at the chance that an actual elven deity has returned to the world and taking a proactive role in transforming it. They may throw caution to the wind given how long their gods have refused to answer. Fen'Harel is not entirely negative in dalish traditions - yes, he's locked the gods away, and yes, he's a god of misfortune, not to be trusted - but he's not depicted like a demon, or the hallmark of the apocalypse (ironically), or satan, or something which is irredeemably bad. If a dalish keeper makes the call to prioritise gaining power over the direction of that power, their clan will likely follow.

 

Other clans would likely point out that this is probably an elaborate ruse by Fen'Harel - which, ironically, they'd be correct to think, since he's fighting for ancient elves, and would kill all modern elves if it meant saving them. Still, I reckon there'd be a large amount of stray dalish from such clans - particularly young hunters, and particularly those who had left the cities in their lifetimes. These strays will likely not know as much dalish lore as Keepers or their Firsts, and don't value what they do know half as much.

 

That said, whilst they're an interesting faction, I think they're irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. The dalish are few in number - so much so that some city elves believe them to be almost mythical. They exist only in the south - and whilst many will relocate to the north in order to follow Fen'Harel, it means we won't see any dissenting, anti-Fen'Harel voices amongst the dalish except in a few scarce codex entries.

 

It's also worth noting Solas doesn't particularly like the dalish anyway. Why appeal to them, then, when there are far more city elves to be found, particularly slaves, who are far less fussy about what help they receive, and far more likely to be duped into following him? I doubt he'll be actively recruiting amongst the dalish - likely, the clans will make those decisions independent of what he's done, and probably arrive late onto the scene, after Fen'Harel has become popularly known amongst city elves and has gained enough traction for the dalish to have heard of his existence.

[Drasanil]

`_` then why are there a bunch of dalish leaving the inquisition and possibly other places under mysterious circumstances and probably gathering to Fen'harel

 

Well, because they aren't. The epilogue slide shows one elf wearing Vallaslin, which can easily be chalked up to artistic license . It makes no actual mention of the Dalish though, only elves who were part of the inquisition and elven servants all over Thedas.

[Steelcan]

gonna require some re-writes to Elven lore for sure

[The Lone Shadow]

I haven't played the DLC yet, but does Solas go under his deity name or just Solas. If he went under his identity Solas, a fade walking elf that has found out a lot of useful things about the ancient elves from the fade. So much so that he now knows how to collapse the human societies and bring back the old glory days. If that was how he was advertising himself, then I don't doubt a lot of Dalish elves would also flock under his banner. Only the really prejudice ones would refuse since he would be a flat ear to them.

[Reznore57]

It depends...

I've been playing a Dalish Inquisitor who's very pro Dalish , so I've been thinking about it.

On one hand , the Dalish will tend to not trust Fen Harel at first..but on the other hand , well Fen harel offers them what they all been waiting for.

Merrill says in a banter , some believe when they are true elves again , their Gods will come back and help.

Their main goal is to restore Arlathan empire , that's what Fen Harel is doing.

Of course it comes with a heavy price , there's no doubt in my mind some will accept it.

Besides Fen Harel could lie to them.

 

Honestly I think it will destroy the Dalish in the long run , again in Merrill case we see how divided they are when it comes to the dangerous magic of their past.

The only way I can imagine them getting out of it , is if they hang on to the fact they are DALISH and not ancient elves.

Their main pride is they endured and didn't submit "We are the last of the elven and never again shall we submit."is their motto.

Fen harel deny the fact they are the last worthy elven and would ask them to roll over and die for the cause.

So let's hope they keep on with no trusting the Dread Wolf because they were right all along , he's not on anyone's side , he's just out for himself and his ideals.

[Han Shot First]

Solas doesn't view the Dalish as being his people. He views them in much the same way that the Dalish view the City Elves.

 

His people are the Ancient Elves, and the only people who would benefit from Solas' plans are any Ancient Elves hiding out in lost temples. The Dalish would be just as boned as everyone else. Solas gives the same 'enjoy your short life while it lasts' speech to a Dalish Inquisitor that he does to a Human, Dwarf, or Qunari.

 

As such I can't really seeing much support for him among the Dalish, assuming they are fully informed of his plans. Plus being the Dread Wolf, their ancient trickster deity that can't be trusted, probably does him no favors.

 

Also I have a feeling that we won't have much choice but to oppose Solas. I think he is being set up as a villain for a future game, albeit one with sympathetic qualities.

[Steelcan]

Solas doesn't view the Dalish as being his people. He views them in much the same way that the Dalish view the City Elves.

 

His people are the Ancient Elves, and the only people who would benefit from Solas' plans are any Ancient Elves hiding out in lost temples. The Dalish would be just as boned as everyone else. Solas gives the same 'enjoy your short life while it lasts' speech to a Dalish Inquisitor that he does to a Human, Dwarf, or Qunari.

 

As such I can't really seeing much support for him among the Dalish, assuming they are fully informed of his plans. Plus being the Dread Wolf, their ancient trickster deity that can't be trusted, probably does him no favors.

 

Also I have a feeling that we won't have much choice but to oppose Solas. I think he is being set up as a villain for a future game, albeit one with sympathetic qualities.

how opposed will they be to him on the basis of him being the Dread Wold if he tells them about the whole "Your creators were actually mages who make magisters look like the play ground bully"?

[wright1978]

I assume many Dalish will join Fen'harel.

[S.W.]

how opposed will they be to him on the basis of him being the Dread Wold if he tells them about the whole "Your creators were actually mages who make magisters look like the play ground bully"?

 

why would they believe the dread wolf though? many of them treasure their belief in the creators, the tradition goes back for years and years - it'll take more than Solas going 'lol what's up nerds ur wrong' for them to let go of their deeply held beliefs.

 

The dalish are very proud and have a tendency to look down on outsiders - even elves. I can't see them all dropping everything they've learnt, admitting that they're completely wrong, in order to join some flat ear mage who claims to be Fen'Harel. I think some might, because not every clan is the same, and I think some are more sympathetic with the elves plight in general. But certainly not all will believe him.

[LobselVith8]

It depends...
I've been playing a Dalish Inquisitor who's very pro Dalish , so I've been thinking about it.
On one hand , the Dalish will tend to not trust Fen Harel at first..but on the other hand , well Fen harel offers them what they all been waiting for.
Merrill says in a banter , some believe when they are true elves again , their Gods will come back and help.
Their main goal is to restore Arlathan empire , that's what Fen Harel is doing.
Of course it comes with a heavy price , there's no doubt in my mind some will accept it.

The goal of many is simply to have their own homeland again, where they can be free to have their own culture, use magic, and follow their religion. That's why Mahariel can ask the Crown for the Dalish to have their own land.

If the Inquisitor is Dalish, I don't see why many wouldn't head to Wycome, if Clan Lavellan survived and thrived as a leader of the city-state, and hero among the non-noble humans and elves.

Besides Fen Harel could lie to them.

Possibly, but I think some Andrastian elves would prefer to head to a Dales governed by Briala (where she's giving them rights and freedoms they never had) while some Dalish clans simply would be opposed to trusting him, especially if the Dalish Inquisitor is opposed to him (if the character forsook becoming a lackey to the Chantry). Perhaps some of the fringe clans who follow the Forgotten Ones might be persuaded by Solas.

Honestly I think it will destroy the Dalish in the long run , again in Merrill case we see how divided they are when it comes to the dangerous magic of their past.

That was more about Marerhari and Merrill than anything else.

The only way I can imagine them getting out of it , is if they hang on to the fact they are DALISH and not ancient elves.
Their main pride is they endured and didn't submit "We are the last of the elven and never again shall we submit."is their motto.
Fen harel deny the fact they are the last worthy elven and would ask them to roll over and die for the cause.

Well, over the centuries, they've been hunted by templars, attacked by lynch moms and rulers, and had their religion criminalized. I'd say they hold on to treasuring who they are because it's one of the few things they have.

So let's hope they keep on with no trusting the Dread Wolf because they were right all along , he's not on anyone's side , he's just out for himself and his ideals.

Or simply hope they trust the Dalish protagonist more than Fen'Harel.

[Reznore57]

Or simply hope they trust the Dalish protagonist more than Fen'Harel.

 

I'm not sure it's about trust.

Fen Harel offers magic , immortality and ruling the land.Current elves may die but it means their race is going to be at the peak again.

The Inquisitor offers what?Hundreds of years of struggles and maybe getting a little better.

 

And elves are joining Fen Harel forces to purge every other race from the surface of the world ...If word goes out , everthing the Dalish Inquisitor did will go down the toilet.

If anyone knows an ancient elven mage was able to create the veil and destroy it...elves are going to get killed left and right.

You can't tell a current elves apart from an ancient elf.

[LobselVith8]

I'm not sure it's about trust.
Fen Harel offers magic , immortality and ruling the land.Current elves may die but it means their race is going to be at the peak again.
The Inquisitor offers what?Hundreds of years of struggles and maybe getting a little better.

And elves are joining Fen Harel forces to purge every other race from the surface of the world ...If word goes out , everthing the Dalish Inquisitor did will go down the toilet.
If anyone knows an ancient elven mage was able to create the veil and destroy it...elves are going to get killed left and right.
You can't tell a current elves apart from an ancient elf.

Maybe the lack of genocide will be sufficient enough for many of them.