161 réponses à ce sujet

[dantares83]

i think that's a great theory.

 

Not sure if this has been posted but the spirit of Dumat was absorbed by the eluvian meaning that Solas is trying to resurrect/absorbing it like Mythal. 

[Chaelura]

Hrm.  This doesn't really explain why Solas seems to have a distaste for Grey Wardens.  If we go with your theory that the Evanuris, now trapped away behind the Veil, somehow taught the Tevinter magisters how to free them, it would be the Evanuris he would still be angry with, yes?  

 

The Grey Wardens are only dealing with the consequences (this is all assuming, of course, that the cause of the blight was indeed the Tevinter magisters at all... I am personally unconvinced of that - I think it's something to do with Dwarves delving too deep, and/or perhaps Titans, given the insanely massive Deep Roads that span the whole continent it seems clear they've been around the longest on this earth).

 

Maybe he just dislikes them because they effectively "disease" themselves, and he feels that's unnatural and/or dangerous.  But if he had an alternative, I sure wish he'd say so.  But something tells me it's the Dwarves that'll pull that thread.  /endpersonaltheory

[Chaelura]

I don't think the Old Gods are the Eluvanis we know of as the Creators of the Pantheon, but I can see them being the Forgotten Ones. The Forgotten Ones were the Elven Gods that waged war with the Creators before the Dread Wolf tricked them and sealed them deep within the earth just like he tricked and sealed the Creators into the sky.

 

Did he seal them?  I missed that.  I mean, I've killed like 3 or 4 of them or something in the DA series.  Xebenkeck, Imshael... those are the names I can remember anyway.  They were just like hanging out in random places being weird.   Varric would've hated it.

[earthboyjak]

Hrm. This doesn't really explain why Solas seems to have a distaste for Grey Wardens. If we go with your theory that the Evanuris, now trapped away behind the Veil, somehow taught the Tevinter magisters how to free them, it would be the Evanuris he would still be angry with, yes?

The Grey Wardens are only dealing with the consequences (this is all assuming, of course, that the cause of the blight was indeed the Tevinter magisters at all... I am personally unconvinced of that - I think it's something to do with Dwarves delving too deep, and/or perhaps Titans, given the insanely massive Deep Roads that span the whole continent it seems clear they've been around the longest on this earth).

Maybe he just dislikes them because they effectively "disease" themselves, and he feels that's unnatural and/or dangerous. But if he had an alternative, I sure wish he'd say so. But something tells me it's the Dwarves that'll pull that thread. /endpersonaltheory

Yet Solas harbors no ill-will toward Dwarves. In fact, he goes out of his way to show solidarity with them, especially when speaking to Varric, and always expresses respect and admiration for their works. If it were the blight he hated, and the Dwarves caused it, you'd think he would treat them the way he treats the grey wardens.

I think people are looking too hard for specific lore behind Solas's dislike for the wardens. It's fanaticism he really hates, the obsessive and thoughtless manner with which people pursue their goals. It lead the wardens to fall for a pretty obvious trap that involved binding demons, which is essentially spirit abuse, and Solas is particularly sensitive to that. In fact, failure to acknowledge the complexity of choices, and the lives they impact, is a big problem for him. It's part of why he's interested in Sera and Red Jennies, who think primarily about the people caught up in wars of gods and heroes. The irony is that, while he recognizes he has made such choices and will again, somehow knowing the dark side of one's actions is at least a little redeeming. Duality, and subjectivity vs. Objectivity, are running themes in DA.

When Solas discusses the wardens in banter with other characters he doesn't seem to mind the way the wardens have gone about saving the world from the blights before. Rather, it's that the wardens seem confident they know what causes blights and how they can eventually be stopped that he finds sort of pitiful. He indicates it isn't as simple as the destruction of arch demons, and that there is an eventuality beyond that which the world has failed to see. He says the wardens "may have bought us some time", but that's all.

[AedanStarfang]

From what I understand from the descent and trespasser DLC lore along with the solas secret ending you can get solas states that he and all Elven gods were false gods who only gained their powers and immortality after a war they had which if you read the lore i think it was in descent or trespasser I forget which it states and talks about that war which they had against the Titans whom they betrayed , battled, and killed and only afterwards by doing something with the Titan bodies they managed to steal the Titans powers too and gain their god hood powers and status among their people. Also solas said that was only when the false gods went to far that he decided to form the veil to banish them and when asked what he meant by the false gods going to far for him to do so he states that it was when the false gods decided to betray and kill Mythal the best and only good one of the false gods and that is what drove him to do what he did and what he meant by they went to far. Now this was all facts from lore and the game itself that you can find on YouTube if you haven't played the DLC.

Now as far as opinions solas does say more then once that all tales of the past are not true and that alot is altered and actually more simple. So I think you have to only assume the old gods in the fade are and have been the same false gods solas banished and created the veil for unless I misunderstood something sure sounds like it by what I stated above and you see in DLC. Now as far as who are and were the forgotten ones I think they are in fact the TItans the real gods that the false gods betrayed and got their powers from and that are and have been imprisoned underground in earth Since and after that war.

Man I love dragon age it's world and lore is huge you still have other races, lands, and parts of the dragon age world left alone and unexplored in the games yet. So along with tevinter and even par vollen yet to be fully explored and visited in a game keep in mind and remember that Qunari came from the Kossith an ancient race or group of races it's still not clear that hails from eastern lands across oceans and whom the Qunari appear different from visually but are descendants of so we haven't seen it all so there is plenty of lore and discovery left to keep things exciting for writers and developers to work with and continue developing dragon age sequels for awhile if they like.

Why am I getting flashes of the Heart of Lorkhan and the old Tribunal? Betrayal, ambitious Elven usurper-lords...

[Chaelura]

Yet Solas harbors no ill-will toward Dwarves. In fact, he goes out of his way to show solidarity with them, especially when speaking to Varric, and always expresses respect and admiration for their works. If it were the blight he hated, and the Dwarves caused it, you'd think he would treat them the way he treats the grey wardens.

I think people are looking too hard for specific lore behind Solas's dislike for the wardens. It's fanaticism he really hates, the obsessive and thoughtless manner with which people pursue their goals. It lead the wardens to fall for a pretty obvious trap that involved binding demons, which is essentially spirit abuse, and Solas is particularly sensitive to that. In fact, failure to acknowledge the complexity of choices, and the lives they impact, is a big problem for him. It's part of why he's interested in Sera and Red Jennies, who think primarily about the people caught up in wars of gods and heroes. The irony is that, while he recognizes he has made such choices and will again, somehow knowing the dark side of one's actions is at least a little redeeming. Duality, and subjectivity vs. Objectivity, are running themes in DA.

When Solas discusses the wardens in banter with other characters he doesn't seem to mind the way the wardens have gone about saving the world from the blights before. Rather, it's that the wardens seem confident they know what causes blights and how they can eventually be stopped that he finds sort of pitiful. He indicates it isn't as simple as the destruction of arch demons, and that there is an eventuality beyond that which the world has failed to see. He says the wardens "may have bought us some time", but that's all.

Yah, I think you're right about his dislike of fanaticism; also arrogance, and ignorance.  In this case though, it's the only option we know to end Blights; and even then, the Legion of the Dead is *always* down in the Deep Roads, fighting off darkspawn.  

 

I think in the credits it mentions something about the Wardens researching different ways to handle it and/or trying to handle the Calling?

 

OR, is it that he feels it unnecessary to kill the "archdemon" and instead follow Morrigan's ritual to essentially "purify" the old god soul?  Maybe that's why he (maybe) sucked it out of Flemeth?  He has a love and respect for all things unique and powerful, beautiful even; stands to reason he might like the old gods.

[earthboyjak]

Yah, I think you're right about his dislike of fanaticism; also arrogance, and ignorance. In this case though, it's the only option we know to end Blights; and even then, the Legion of the Dead is *always* down in the Deep Roads, fighting off darkspawn.

I think in the credits it mentions something about the Wardens researching different ways to handle it and/or trying to handle the Calling?

OR, is it that he feels it unnecessary to kill the "archdemon" and instead follow Morrigan's ritual to essentially "purify" the old god soul? Maybe that's why he (maybe) sucked it out of Flemeth? He has a love and respect for all things unique and powerful, beautiful even; stands to reason he might like the old gods.

He certainly doesn't seem to think killing arch demons and destroying old god souls is effective in the long run, if not offensive. Though I don't recall him ever getting MAD about it.

We know wardens have been experimenting on the blight as a source of power or to find a cure for it since Origins, and some of them have been successful in a variety of ways. The hero of ferelden was last contacted while seeking a cure. I doubt Solas likes anyone screwing around with blight if not to cure it.

And yeah, the Legion of the dead does as much if not more to keep dark spawn at bay. They're legit. Everyone knows it.

[Secret Rare]

Hello and thank you for reading my post, as I am barely new to this forum. I wanted to share with you an INCREDIBLE theory I just came up with after having that conversation with Solas... that the elven gods ARE the old gods of Tevinter. I hope i can convince you, or at least, amuse you. Here goes:

 

As son as I finished Trespasser, I began to think... If Solas made the veil to separate the fade from the real world, thus exiling the pantheon of false elven gods to the fade... where does that leave blights? Exactly there ladies and gentlemen. For what we know, the old gods were tevinter gods, beings of immense power, that tought powerful magic to the magisters of old, while trapped in the fade... but what if they are the elven gods? By the actions of Solas, the elven people began a rebelión to their gods right after he send them to the fade, so since their own people turned their back on this superpowerful mages, why not try to deceive humans mages to free them? Makes perfect sense. They were incredibly good mages with immense knowledge, enough to teach to the magisters so that they could conquer the world and be forever in their debt. Thus, at one time, the old god Dumat would encourage them to go to the fade and set them free, and after that they would probably had betrayed the humans...

 

What proof do I have, apart from this Little gathering of pieces? Well, several, or enough to make it extremely likely:

 

If the elven gods are the tevinter gods under different names... wouldnt an organization as POWERFUL as the andrastian chantry, eventualy find this out? And if they did, wouldnt they cover it up to rise in power? Of course they would. Therefore, that explains why they covered up Inquisitor Ameridan, why they marched on the dales when they tried to reconstruct Arlathan and why they removed the chant of shartan from the chant of light; so that the elven power would be forgotten. In fact, what would happen if the elves found out of this? they would march madly to the dep roads to find and free their pantheon. Note that Vivienne, the most tyranic-old school chantry posible divine, agrees with this in Trespasser, as i can recall her saying at the elven library that if the knowledge the elves had was so powerful and destructive, it may beteer be left forgotten.

 

If the elven gods are the tevinter gods, why are the archdemons dragons? This is silly to explain really but i feel obliged to leave no blanks. Flemeth is an elven goddess, and can shapeshift into dragons, we saw it 3 times during the saga. She adopts Morrigan, a normal woman, and she teaches them to shapeshift into common animals. Then she dispatches Morrigan with The Grey Warden, and she can even teach the shapeshift specialization to him/her. Also, in inquisition, had Morrigan drank from the well of sorrows, Flemeth teaches her to shapeshif into a dragon for the final batte against corypheus.

 

If the elven gods are the old gods, wouldnt an elven god be concerned about the fate of an old god, in a paranoic way? Sure as hell they would. Why is Solas so PARANOID about the grey wardens marching on the Deep roads to kill the old gods? he fears they might free them? AND WHY DOES FLEMETH SEND MORRIGAN WITH THE WARDEN TO GET URTHEMIEL´S SOUL? Might it be another part of Mythal? Or of yet another elven legend? This explains why solas kills her. He deeply respects and cares for Mithal, but fears that she herself, and trough Morrigan, may intend to forgive and remake the elven pantheon that Solas seeks dead or forever punished.

 

But the only gap for wich i have no proof in my theory, wich i PLEASE want you to take as pure faith... is the following: maybe the magisters succeeded. Maybe they DID free the elven gods, and then, the gods may have indeed betrayed them by forever cursing them into blighted-sick creatures. And in an attempt of fight back, the magisters locked them all up in superprisons at the Deep roads, possibly inside Titans, because of their friendship with the dwarven empire who was known for resisting magic. Maybe they tought they could find the Titans in pain for this trespasser gods, and have them killed... but this failed and unleashed a blight.

 

Please, tell me you love me

Actually i disagree with some pieces of this theory

 

 

-I don't think Solas created the veil,he never stated that as much as powerful he is any spell need to be sustained,if the veil is an artificial construct and not part of the natural world it needs to be sustained and clearly Solas does not have the power to do that for millennia.

I believe he merely reallocated the veil to trap the Evanuris which make much more sense than him creating the entire thing from scratch

 

-Mythal is tied to dragons we can see that from the statue in the Mythal altar,this does not mean that all the others elven gods assumed dragon form,Solas never did that.

If the old gods are elven gods and this can be possible they can't be the Evanuris since Solas has no interest in saving them and will be more than happy to see them dead.

[Secret Rare]

He certainly doesn't seem to think killing arch demons and destroying old god souls is effective in the long run, if not offensive. Though I don't recall him ever getting MAD about it.

 

Agree,Solas believed that the GW solution was not the best but he wasn't mad either about the death of the archdemons and old gods.

[Secret Rare]

i think that's a great theory.

 

Not sure if this has been posted but the spirit of Dumat was absorbed by the eluvian meaning that Solas is trying to resurrect/absorbing it like Mythal. 

who?

Dumat? you mean Urthemiel(if he was not killed in DAO) and no you're wrong that was Mythal soul not the old god soul,also Solas is unaware about the archdemon soul otherwise he would have gladly kidnapped Kieran at Skyhold

[robertthebard]

i think that's a great theory.

 

Not sure if this has been posted but the spirit of Dumat was absorbed by the eluvian meaning that Solas is trying to resurrect/absorbing it like Mythal. 

There is a flaw to this logic:  If you don't do the DR, therefore destroying the soul of Urethemiel(sp), you get the exact same scene with Flemeth at the eluvian.  How is she putting the OG's soul in there, if it was killed in Denerim?

[greenbrownblue]

Hello and thank you for reading my post, as I am barely new to this forum. I wanted to share with you an INCREDIBLE theory I just came up with after having that conversation with Solas... that the elven gods ARE the old gods of Tevinter. I hope i can convince you, or at least, amuse you. Here goes:

 

Saw this topic many times, and while I believe that the Old Gods are related to the elven pantheon and I saw some cool interpretations, your theory does not really make much sense to me. There are certain sentences that I believe could be wrong,
 

 If Solas made the veil to separate the fade from the real world, thus exiling the pantheon of false elven gods to the fade...

 

 

Solas confirms that the Evanuris were banished forever, but he does not confirm that THE WHOLE PANTHEON (Forgotten Ones+The Evanuris) were locked away in the Fade.

 

By the actions of Solas, the elven people began a rebelión to their gods right after he send them to the fade

 

Solas rebelled against false elven gods before the creation of the Veil. Elves were coming to him to get their Vallaslin removed (according to a mural) before Evanuris attempted to kill Mythal.

 

For what we know, the old gods were tevinter gods, beings of immense power, that tought powerful magic to the magisters of old, while trapped in the fade... but what if they are the elven gods? 

 

Thus, at one time, the old god Dumat would encourage them to go to the fade and set them free, and after that they would probably had betrayed the humans...

 

 

I am not 100% sure, but are not the Forgotten Ones in the Abyss and the Old Gods in the mortal world (underground)? The Old Gods could not be the Evanuris, because the Evanuris are not able to communicate even with the Dalish, not to mention Tevinter. Abelas suggested that the elves were warring with each other and humans only "feasted upon a corpse". 

 

So again. I would gladly see someone finally collecting all info, codexes, dialogues, murals, etc to prove this theory, I do not really think the way you are trying to expain it is right.

Try reading what other ppl wrote on this forum or on reddit. As boring as it sounds, it is a good idea to learn other ppl's perspective .

Oh , one more thing. Solas did not kill Mythal.