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[TheEggCrusher]

Hey everyone!! 

 

I started this thread for the sole purpose of discussing the lore of the Dragon Age elves. There's a lot we just learned from Trespasser that is completely game-changing that I feel should definitely be discussed. 

 

Any lore/theories from any of the games/DLC's are welcome. General lore is welcome as well, but this is a thread for the elves specifically, so please make a connection somehow to the main topic of this thread. 

 

I will be posting my theories in parts to promote discussion.

 

A couple standard rules to keep the thread friendly:

 

• Debate as much as you want, but please no fighting 

 

• Any controversial characters or themes (*ahem* Solas) should be handled with respect. I don't want any feelings hurt. 

 

And that's it!! Have fun!! 

 

(And so the elf-hellspiral begins ....) 

 

 

PART 1: THE CREATION OF THE ELVES

 

Spoiler

In The masked Empire (by Patrick Weeks) is an elf (presumably originally of the Ancient Elvhen Empire) named Felassan. Now, he's relatively well known and will come into my theories later, but there is one line he says that is extremely interesting: 

 

"We [the elves] were everyone. There were no humans, no dwarves, no race but the elves." (dragon age wiki about Felassan: http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Felassan)

 

What he says here is game-breaking. If what he said is true, then the elves were more than just the prominent race, they were the first. 

 

There were no Qunari, Humans, Dwarves, nothing. Now, my first thought was "Well how does that make sense?? Races don't just poof out of nowhere as the only race in a world." So I thought about it, got no where, and then: 

 

What if they were directly related to Spirits? 

 

Explanation:

 

Before all races, before the Elves, there was no humanoid race. It was a merged world of both the fade and the physical. Over millennia, consciousness took the form of spirits, roaming the world and learning as they did so. They became more and more intelligent, more willful, more real. Until one day, manifestation had occurred. A spirit with a physical body! They shared their knowledge and more and more made themselves physical so they could further explore the world in a way they had never done so before.

 

Now then, who does this sound similar to? Which spirit manifested themselves a body, who could eventually become a full human? Cole. 

Spirits can make their own bodies. They can become physical, living, breathing people. 

 

Imagine this: overtime spirits made real congregated and communicated. They made communities, villages, and their own lives. Think of the process as human evolution from the caveman times. 

 

They form more uniform appearances, begin to look like each other, create a language. Thousands of years later, what do you have? Elves. As the only race on Thedas. 

 

PART 2: ELVHEN SOCIETY, THE CREATORS 

 

Spoiler

Over millennia, they became cultured. Small villages became towns, then civilizations, then small empires. These Empires warred for control, and where some succeeded, others fell. Each Empire had leaders, generals, which lead them, and when they gained more power they gained more elves under their rule. 

 

These "generals" are what later become the Evanuris, the Creators, the Elvhen Gods. 

 

As Solas says in the ending scene of Trespasser: "It started with a war. War breeds fear. Fear breeds a desire for simplicity. Good and evil, right and wrong, chains of command. After the war ended, generals became respected elders, then kings, and finally, gods." 

 

Once the leading powers came into an agreement, they started Elvhenan, the unified Elvhen Empire. 

 

These leaders would have been Elgar'nan, Mythal, Falon'Din, Dirthamen, Andruil, Sylaise, and June. 

 

 

PART 3: SPIRITS AND THEIR ASSIMILATION INTO ELVHEN SOCIETY

 

Spoiler

The Elvhen culture would have been highly connected with spirits. Intelligent, powerful ones would have been respected. They would have been be able to roam the land free, seen as people. Some would have taken the corporeal form of Elves, though not physically. They would have been seen as members of the The People. 

 

A codex found in the library in Trespasser: 

 

Notice the use of the words "those" in "those who never manifested outside the fade" and "brethren" in "our brethren of the air." 

 

Both of these quotes are in reference to spirits, but the wording is very important. The writer didn't say "them" or "the spirits," as a way to speak of outsiders. The writer used "brethren," a word meaning kinship. 

 

Since it is obvious that this was written for spirits to some extent, I will mention the side-notes that the codex provides. It says the codex is instructions, for the Elves or Elvhen culture due to its Elvhen title, on exploring undiscovered parts of the fade "unmarked by dreamers" or, in other words, areas not recorded yet by The People. 

 

It is a well written, intelligent codex, with an instructional tone to it. I believe it was written for the benefit of both Elvhen dreamers and Elvhen spirits, showing the tight-knit relationship of spirits and elves in Elvehnan.

 

PART 4: GHILAN'NAIN AND MORE SPIRIT-ELF THEORIES 

 

Spoiler

The 8^th god, the last of the Evanuris, though not the last of the group that would later be considered the Elvhen pantheon in Dalish history, would have been Ghilan'nain. Now, most people don't find her that interesting. I'm going to have to agree. She's not exactly bad*ss. She seemed to be the god of "Oh, look, I made a cool dear thing. I'm going to call you Halla. Can I ride you like a horse?" Not exacting inspiring or fear-inducing in any way when I put her like that.

 

So, I thought about her for a bit, just like how I think about most DA lore more than I should, and put her into the context of my elf creation theory.

 

In the codex entry "The Ascension of Ghilan'nain" (http://dragonage.wik..._of_Ghilan'nain), Ghilan'nain's rise to power is described. She had created beasts and monsters of great power, such as giants (those ugly hairy things that are a pain in the *** to kill)  and great monsters of the sky (griffons?) and sea. Now whether this is all completely true is not the point. What is most interesting is what is most likely true, the truth hidden in the lie: she could create new, original life, most likely with her own independent magic.

 

The very fact this is possible opens up an extremely huge amount of possibilities. Could she bind spirits to physical forms, enslaving them? Could she raise armies of immense power, all spirits made physical into forms of great prowess? Could she make new Elvhen people? 

 

Here is piece of Cole dialogue said in Trespasser that I find extremely important to pay attention to:

 

 

Now, who I think this is addressing I will mention in PART 6. What this is implying is what I find incredible. 

 

Conjecture:

 

"He" is an Elvhen spirit, a spirit considered one of The People. 

 

"She" is an individual I have theories about, but will go into in PART 6.

 

"He did not want a body, but she asked him to come" means to enter the realm of the physical with a body

 

"burned her off his face" possibly means "he" was wearing Vallaslin, the markings of a god/godess. This would mean "she" was a goddess. This would also mean "he" was made into an elf, made a servant/slave, but then set himself free

 

The implications of this blow my mind. If I am putting the pieces of the puzzle together correctly, then the Evanuris could make elves from spirits.

 

​This will be integral to my theory in PART 6. 

 

PART 5: THE CREATORS BECOME CORRUPTED (mostly conjecture) 

 

Spoiler

I want to clarify that this part is only meant to lead up to my eventual discussion about Fen'Harel (Solas), his forming of the veil, and why he did so.

 

It is clear that the Evanuris had become corrupted. We've had plenty to tell us this, from codexes, from Solas telling us so indirectly throughout the base game (by comparing Elvhenan to Tevinter), and finally, Solas telling us officially that: yes, they went power crazy and ended up killing the head of their order, Mythal, who was probably the only nice one of the bunch anyways. 

 

Just to really accentuate how gross they were, here's a codex on Elgar'Nan from Trespasser: 

 

To summarize this without turning out a full explanation, I will say: Elgar'Nan gathered slaves, (most likely) had them sacrificed in blood magic (hence why "the slaves [had] disappeared" by the finishing of the monument, and then, by the lives of his followers, had his face built into a mountain. I hope it's not just me, but this guy doesn't sound too nice. 

 

Now then, let's assume all the Evanuris were doing similarly crappy things, as Solas implied. As a summary, Andruil became too ambitious and went to the abyss (the deep roads?) and possibly found the the first creatures of the blight (the creatures of "The Forgotten Ones"), Falon'din went kill-crazy to strike fear into his followers, Elgar'Nan was apparently just an *sshole, and the rest, well, we don't know much about them but I doubt they were any better. 

 

There is another piece of Cole dialogue that I believe relates to this as well as my next part, PART 6:

 

 

"The Old Dreams?" What were these Old Dreams? Might they have something to do with Andruil, entering the void and, as the Anrduil wiki puts it (http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Andruil) "looking for prey among The Forgotten Ones?" 

 

​Could the Pantheon have awakened The Forgotten Ones? (and, in effect, the blight?) 

 

No wonder why Mr. Wolf "broke the dreams" (created the veil). I would do the same thing, if I was in his place. 

 

One huge question we should consider, however, is what are The Forgotten Ones? This will possibly be talked about in PART 8.

 

PART 6: WHO THE **** IS SOLAS? (working on it) 

[FernRain]

Alright everyone, have some codices.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And some of Spirit Cole's comments (last one is from Descent)..

Spoiler

 

 

The last (I think) section of the book some might have missed in the deep roads part of trespasser..

Spoiler

 

And some of the murals..

Spoiler

 

 

 

This image depicts the evanuris destroying a titan (talked about in this thread).

 

Go for it .

[themageguy]

It seems that not all elves were mages for one. It seems the magic elves had relates to the immortality aspect of elves.
In the temple of mythal, many of them were warriors and rogues for example.
Possibly they have some inherent magical ability- faster reflexes and accuracy with arrows, but other than that many elves were normal prior to the creation of the veil.

[Vit246]

Don't we already have a thread for this type of thing?

[TheEggCrusher]

Don't we already have a thread for this type of thing?

is it specifically for Trespasser? 

[TheEggCrusher]

It seems that not all elves were mages for one. It seems the magic elves had relates to the immortality aspect of elves.
In the temple of mythal, many of them were warriors and rogues for example.
Possibly they have some inherent magical ability- faster reflexes and accuracy with arrows, but other than that many elves were normal prior to the creation of the veil.

If we assume Solas saying that "magic was as natural as breathing" was correct, then all elves at least had some magical ability. But there were probably some huge differences in level of ability. 

 

In a society ruled by magic the ones with less power would have a harder time being a prominent citizen, sort of like in Tevinter. Those with great magical ability could possibly have become leaders or generals, as Solas puts it, and then kings, and then (a few), Gods. 

 

I'm making my main theory post right now and it should have all of this as part of it 

[atum]

I would like to read your theories rather than a "here is a place to discuss this, and here are my rules...".  Not an ideal way to spark a discussion.

 

 

(Also if you are going to color text, remember some of us use the dark theme to browse the forum)

[TheEggCrusher]

I would like to read your theories rather than a "here is a place to discuss this, and here are my rules...".  Not an ideal way to spark a discussion.

 

 

(Also if you are going to color text, remember some of us use the dark theme to browse the forum)

updated my master post  

[Kyrissae]

So what are the chances, that all elves were originally spirits who decided to leave the fade and take corporal form? The less powerful could only assume one, the more powerful (Forgotten/Forbidden ones and the "gods") could shapeshift, for example into dragons.

I definitely like your theory.

 

Edit: It would also explain the original use of the vallaslin. Maybe the "gods" used it to bind unwilling spirits into corporal form and their service?

[atum]

 

Imagine this: overtime spirits made real congregated and communicated. They made communities, villages, and their own lives. Think of the process as human evolution from the caveman times. 

 

 

Interesting, so would this apply to all races? Humans, Dwarves, Qunari, ...Titans? (Scaled ones?).  That seems to imply there was certainly no Maker.

 

One thing I have noticed is that It seems like Chantry lore and Elven lore are seemingly becoming more mutually exclusive.   Which makes sense, but I was kinda hoping the "truth" was somewhat murkier.

[FernRain]

That might make sense of this paraphrase about the Old Gods:

 

"They were neither Creators, nor were They Created. They came from somewhere we don't know and whispered into the ears of men, and taught them magic."

 

If something was never created, perhaps it was a spirit from the fade that had always existed? .

[TheEggCrusher]

So what are the chances, that all elves were originally spirits who decided to leave the fade and take corporal form? The less powerful could only assume one, the more powerful (Forgotten/Forbidden ones and the "gods") could shapeshift, for example into dragons.

I definitely like your theory.

 

Edit: It would also explain the original use of the vallaslin. Maybe the "gods" used it to bind unwilling spirits into corporal form and their service?

Thanks!! I've figured out most of the lore in my theory, and I will be posting in parts. Just updated with the second part, though that one is more self-explanatory. 

 

I will be getting into all that stuff with time but, sneak peak: physical forms can be manipulated and created by use of the Fade. Just as a spirit can become a physical creature, a powerful mage could assume grand physical forms, such as dragons. 

 

About the spirit slaves, I think this is an important point. There are hints in Trespasser saying that Fen'Harel kept his spirit guardians (of his "sanctuary") there under their own free will. They chose, and it made it seem like not all spirits had that choice choice under other "gods."

 

Interesting, so would this apply to all races? Humans, Dwarves, Qunari, ...Titans? (Scaled ones?).  That seems to imply there was certainly no Maker.

 

One thing I have noticed is that It seems like Chantry lore and Elven lore are seemingly becoming more mutually exclusive.   Which makes sense, but I was kinda hoping the "truth" was somewhat murkier.

The Qunari I think are very special (a variant of the Elves).

 

The humans I am actually pretty stumped on. I need more lore on them x-x

 

Dwarves: of The Stone. Spirits who cut themselves off from the Fade of Thedas and joined the Titans, which gave them bodies and intelligence and freewill 

 

The "truth" of everything seems to be very connected, and, to me at least, extremely murky. It's not exactly a Middle Earth level of comprehensibility, but it is definitely complicated. I'll try to explain everything as well as I can

[TheEggCrusher]

That might make sense of this paraphrase about the Old Gods:

 

"They were neither Creators, nor were They Created. They came from somewhere we don't know and whispered into the ears of men, and taught them magic."

 

If something was never created, perhaps it was a spirit from the fade that had always existed? .

I like to think they slowly came into being, just like how humans slowly came into being in the theory of Evolution irl. 

 

Primal feelings and emotions had to accumulate and finally create intelligent beings. The first animals of Thedas would have provided these "primal feelings", such as the Dragons (which I believe to be the first living creatures of Thedas).

[FernRain]

I like to think they slowly came into being, just like how humans slowly came into being in the theory of Evolution irl. 

 

Primal feelings and emotions had to accumulate and finally create intelligent beings. The first animals of Thedas would have provided these "primal feelings", such as the Dragons (which I believe to be the first living creatures of Thedas).

 

Interesting since "the blood of dragons is the blood of the world" according to Yavana.

[Merengues 1945]

Interesting, so would this apply to all races? Humans, Dwarves, Qunari, ...Titans? (Scaled ones?).  That seems to imply there was certainly no Maker.

 

One thing I have noticed is that It seems like Chantry lore and Elven lore are seemingly becoming more mutually exclusive.   Which makes sense, but I was kinda hoping the "truth" was somewhat murkier.

 

Or what if the maker does exist but he was a human mage?

 

Humans came from the north like Qunari did centuries later (curiously enough they seemed to never have met before) Maybe they even share some common ancestry. So is it crazy to believe that maybe humans are the same case? Cole turned into a human, not an elf, although that may be because he came into physical form in the White Spire where he was surrounded mostly by humans.

 

My main theory is that humans are some sort of spawn of a different set of divinities or spirits beyond thedas. The Avvar who remain very "primeval" in spiritual aspects seem to have a religion based on spirits and a much extensive knowledge on magic and its roots than most humans, probably even tevinter. So maybe they are spirits turned human or indeed the Maker made them back in the land where no elf had thread before.

 

My crackpot is that humans are the response of the Old Gods or maybe even the Evanuris to either the Veil or against each other.

 

---

 

Now, the codex that kinda disturbed me was the one found on the library that seemed to suggest that the dwarves were either cast down to the underground or ran away after Elgar'nan "scorched" the earth with the sun.

 

Together with the codex about the dwarves never seeing the sun (Trespasser), the one of Elgar'nan legend (Vanilla Inquisition) and the one of Mythal and probably titans (Trespasser), and along with the elven statues on the deep roads and the primeval thaig. May suggest (if you have some imagination) that Elves had some sort of quarrel with the titans and likely their offspring. With Mythal killing one or maybe several, likely to harvest the greatest treasure the Titans have. It would also explain why the Titan seemed to react to the Breach; as he feared that the war may begin again... Now this is completely crackpot, feel free to dismiss it as you want.

[TheEggCrusher]

Interesting since "the blood of dragons is the blood of the world" according to Yavana.

eheheheh

 

oh is it really?? 

 

(i've thought about the lore probably more than I should've) 

[TheEggCrusher]

Part 3 is up  

[TheEggCrusher]

Or what if the maker does exist but he was a human mage?

 

Humans came from the north like Qunari did centuries later (curiously enough they seemed to never have met before) Maybe they even share some common ancestry. So is it crazy to believe that maybe humans are the same case? Cole turned into a human, not an elf, although that may be because he came into physical form in the White Spire where he was surrounded mostly by humans.

 

My main theory is that humans are some sort of spawn of a different set of divinities or spirits beyond thedas. The Avvar who remain very "primeval" in spiritual aspects seem to have a religion based on spirits and a much extensive knowledge on magic and its roots than most humans, probably even tevinter. So maybe they are spirits turned human or indeed the Maker made them back in the land where no elf had thread before.

 

My crackpot is that humans are the response of the Old Gods or maybe even the Evanuris to either the Veil or against each other.

 

---

 

Now, the codex that kinda disturbed me was the one found on the library that seemed to suggest that the dwarves were either cast down to the underground or ran away after Elgar'nan "scorched" the earth with the sun.

 

Together with the codex about the dwarves never seeing the sun (Trespasser), the one of Elgar'nan legend (Vanilla Inquisition) and the one of Mythal and probably titans (Trespasser), and along with the elven statues on the deep roads and the primeval thaig. May suggest (if you have some imagination) that Elves had some sort of quarrel with the titans and likely their offspring. With Mythal killing one or maybe several, likely to harvest the greatest treasure the Titans have. It would also explain why the Titan seemed to react to the Breach; as he feared that the war may begin again... Now this is completely crackpot, feel free to dismiss it as you want.

I honestly have no idea about where the humans came from. They have a connection to the fade, so they might have come into being similar to the way explained in my theory (Part 1) on the elves, but in just a more disorganized fashion. 

 

I believe the tendency of a spirit is to replicate a physical form (which is why the first races would have been such an amazing occurrence as they were original). Though Cole became human, he made his body in the same shape of the real Cole, the Mage taken by the Templars. Cole replicated his form based on the real Cole, but he can only truly become human if he is convinced to see himself as not just a spirit having taken the form of the original Cole, but his own version of "Cole." His own person. 

 

A theory could be that the Avaar's gods were sort of the humans' version of the Creators. They developed separately from the Elves, as well as were the first spirits who became humans, and the Avaar gods (human kings, generals) led them in a different direction culturally (more cut off from the fade) than the elvhen creator's did their people. 

 

I'm getting pretty tired so that's all I'll respond to (i need sleep aaagh).  

 

I'll try to be hear at around 3/4 EST tomorrow to respond to stuff in more detail 

[drake2511]

I like your theory

 

If that was true, I think we'd figure out who "his people" are: spirits. 

I'll post what I said in Solas' thread: before the game came out, Wekees tweeted that Solas was sweeter to Cole than with any other companion (or something similar), and we got a confirm of that by playing the game.

 

Solas isn't clear at all when he talks about "his people". We still don't know who "his people" are, but I am more convinced now that he means spirits with it. He's kind to them, while he's harsh with the Dalish and treats them (and any other living being at first, tbh) as they're not his equals. Not until he befriends/romances the Inquisitor, at least.

[TheEggCrusher]

I like your theory

 

If that was true, I think we'd figure out who "his people" are: spirits. 

I'll post what I said in Solas' thread: before the game came out, Wekees tweeted that Solas was sweeter to Cole than with any other companion (or something similar), and we got a confirm of that by playing the game.

 

Solas isn't clear at all when he talks about "his people". We still don't know who "his people" are, but I am more convinced now that he means spirits with it. He's kind to them, while he's harsh with the Dalish and treats them (and any other living being at first, tbh) as they're not his equals. Not until he befriends/romances the Inquisitor, at least.

I have a theory that Solas is much more related to spirits than most might think. I talked about it a couple hours ago in the Solas thread and then everybody was like "oh my god OH MY GOD" so I decided to make this thread. 

 

And yes, I do believe Solas' people are Spirits (at least the elvhen ones he can relate to best) as well as the ancient elves who were already extremely "spirity" in the first place. 

 

I'll talk all about it tomorrow XD 

[Roamingmachine]

I like this theory.

 

Fits well with my belief that the material plane itself was formed around the titans, intentionally or as a natural reaction much like how pearls can form around a pebble in an oyster, and all fade-connected life are in fact visitors there. Makes sense when you consider that the only form of intelligent life that doesn't connect to the fade at all are the dwarves. Would explain the recorded conflict between the elven people and the titans too if fade-bound creatures somehow cause them irritation, like an allergic reaction.

[TheEggCrusher]

I like this theory.

 

Fits well with my belief that the material plane itself was formed around the titans, intentionally or as a natural reaction much like how pearls can form around a pebble in an oyster, and all fade-connected life are in fact visitors there. Makes sense when you consider that the only form of intelligent life that doesn't connect to the fade at all are the dwarves. Would explain the recorded conflict between the elven people and the titans too if fade-bound creatures somehow cause them irritation, like an allergic reaction.

thanks

 

I've thought about this since I played origins (a loooong time ago) and Trespasser cemented a lot of the theories I've been thinking about over the years. 

 

I like to come up with theories that aren't definite, but open to other theories as well and work in conjunction with most of the popular beliefs. 

 

It is also my belief that the Titans built the physical world, to some extent anyhow, but I know much less about theories about that since my main interests are elf related.  Glad my theories work with yours

 

(also, I see the titans as a natural reaction of the fade interacting with the physical world. I don't know much about it, but it seems more a result of natural circumstances than anything done on purpose. I love your metaphor about the pearl and how you said all fade-connected life are visitors there. very interesting    )

[Kallimachus]

Hmmm... I have not yet played the DLC, so what I'm going to say may have been confirmed or contradicted entirely in the DLC, but I have been claiming for some time that all the ancient elves must have been bald.

 

Not only Solas, but it seems that Abelas and his people were bald (although it is difficult to say since they all wear hoods), also all the mosaics of the Elven Gods seem to depict them as bald (Sylaise and perhaps also June seem to wear some elaborate head-dress, but they essentially seem bald). All the stylized murals in the main game also seem to depict the elves as bald (although they are so stylized this may have been claimed to be an oversight). In "the Masked Empire" there is no mention of Felassan's hair (or lack thereof) anywhere, not even once. I tweeted Patrick Weekes about it a while back, but his reply was evasive.

 

And now these murals seem to depict the ancient elves as bald as well.

 

What does it mean? And when did elves begin to grow hair? Is it that they were themselves part-spirits and were not entirely hard-formed? Or was it just the height of fashion in Arlathan? Could the first elves have been the same as Cole?

 

On a different issue - Felassan claims that the Elves were the only beings in Thedas, but that really is a surprise only in regards to the dwarves, isn't it? There have been stories about the humans and the qunari having originated on other continents.

[Roamingmachine]

I think hair is something that came to be with elves (and most likely everyone else except the dwarves as well) after the veil was created. Life was in an interesting place between the immaterial and material before that and just how much they had to obey the laws of the "unchanging world" is not explored. Hair is a natural response to cold, but would someone who's 50/50 between material and immaterial feel cold?

If this is true, it must have been quite a shock to suddenly be beholden to ALL the laws of the physical realm.

[LatteRene]

I am an infrequent commenter, but I like this theory on elven origins. I think it is telling that the fade spirit Wisdom took the form of an elven woman after being released from the binding circle.

Edit - on the bald elf thing: Wisdom the fade elf had hair.