228 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurogane335]

Concerning the Qunari, the fact that the Iron Bull tell us that the Kossith were apparently different from them makes me believe that they hadn't dragon's blood in them. While there is currently nothing to prove it ingame, I think that the Kossith either were elves who, after the creation of the Veil, tried to take the place of their lost gods, or were outcasts before the Veil, trying to enhance themselves and their servants.

 

Note that the very few we know about them speaks about animistic gods - and each Elven God has a "totem" animal. So, I think that the first Qunari were breed as living weapons, to be used in their wars (since there is apparently references to various nations in the Kossith page on the wiki). It may explain why the Horned Giants find hornlessness frightening : their masters had no horns. It is quite possible that Ashkaari Koslun actually founded the Qun to guide the Living Weapons of the Kossith to freedom from their masters. It would then be dramatic irony that freedom for the Qunari was achieved by the creation of such strict and harsh laws, but maybe it was what was the best suited for creatures who didn't saw themselves as people (and in fact the Antaam's fetishism toward their weapon could be a relic from that age).

 

If this hypothesis is true, then the Ben-Hassrath often not having horns could have been intended by the Kossith, with the Ben(Hassrath being sort of intermediaries between the common Living Weapon and the masters, thus having to be frightening for the warriors to insure obedience. Obviously, at one point in time, it is quite possible that true Kossith joined the Qun under Koslun (it is at least implied by the tales of that age) and that would explain why the society of the Qunari even exist. I guess they were forced to breed with the Horned Giants to unify the race and avoid civil wars, which would have been of paramount importance if all the Kossith kingdoms weren't destroyed, but only a few.

[solomon.kosin]

I was thinking about sooo many dread wolf statues in the main game as well as dlc. The fact that we encounter wolf statues in deep roads in trespasser makes me think that dread wolf may have participated in the fight with mythal?

I also think of atatues everywhere in the temples dedicated to other elven gods. I doubt they were put there later by dalish, who as we know think that it will keep the evil spirits away.

I think that he maybe was sided with them? Was thei best buddy until they killed mythal? And whether he played such an important role of guider and protector that they put his wolves everywhere.

[TheEggCrusher]

I was thinking about sooo many dread wolf statues in the main game as well as dlc. The fact that we encounter wolf statues in deep roads in trespasser makes me think that dread wolf may have participated in the fight with mythal?

I also think of atatues everywhere in the temples dedicated to other elven gods. I doubt they were put there later by dalish, who as we know think that it will keep the evil spirits away.

I think that he maybe was sided with them? Was thei best buddy until they killed mythal? And whether he played such an important role of guider and protector that they put his wolves everywhere.

Well a part of the lore is just that wolves were a big part of symbolistic culture before Fen'Harel. They were revered and were carved into designs and buildings, etc. Not every wolf you see is for Fen'Harel. 

 

Now, from a dev's point of view, it was probably just to foreshadow the Mythal/Fen'Harel relationship. We know that he created the veil because Mythal was killed, and since they were obviously friends, he probably helped her in many ways before her death. 

[The Dwarven Smithy]

Hey there,

 

Just trying to wrap my head around the whole lore explosion that's been happening since Trespasser came out so I thought I'd share my interpretation of events as well.

 

We know there are at least two realms of existence, the earth and the Fade, juxtaposing areas of reality and ethereal natures, each with its intrinsic sentience, Titans and spirits respectively. They're two separate realms but originally it was a lot more fluid in terms of co-existence.

 

Current readings allude to the fact that rarely some spirits took on physical form and started inhabiting the earth - the ancient elves. Earthquakes caused unrest amongst the People and so generals rose to combat the cause, the Titans.

Whether dwarves existed before or as manifested a defence against the People, they were bound to Titans and if Descent was anything to go by, some could have used a form of magic.

Mythal appears to be the one that stuck a blow by killing a Titan and dwarves were sundered from the Titans, becoming free willed, sentient beings themselves rather than "witless, soulless". The Sha-Brytol could be the last remnants of bound dwarves who serve to protect the remaining Titans. Of course this could be wrong and the Titans allowed their "children" to be free once the war was over and could inhabit the underground while the elves stayed on the surface.

 

After the success of the war against the Pillars of the Earth the generals began to be revered which over time lead to deification and in turn an abuse of power by the Evanuris. Around the same time, it seems that some who disagreed with their status as gods were banish from The People' lands i.e. The Forbidden Ones

Eventually the Evanuris murdered Mythal - who in comparison was caring and compassionate - which made Solas decide to end the barbarity once and for all with the creation of the Veil, plus some tricksy other things to seal the remaining Evanuris away.

 

As for the origins of humans we don't have anything to go by. It's a shot in the dark but maybe they're just spirits who got stuck on earth after the Veil formation and took on physical form; since they came after the Veil they have a lesser connection to the Fade.

 

Qunaris on the other hand...Corypheus stating "Your race is not even a race, it is a mistake" implies not only were they some experiment gone wrong but they were an Ancient Tevinter creation. Even in those times there's no record to state that humans knew much about the history of the elves so knowing that they were made by them is unlikely, plus we know how much Vints like(d) their elven blood sacrifices and dragons. Then again, the Scaled Ones could have been primordial Kossith who were bred to become modern day Qunari.

 

"I will save the elven people, even if it means this world will die". To Solas, an immortal being who woke up from a snooze to find a Planet of the Apes situation going on, I know I'd be sorely tempted to restore things as to how they were, even if chimpanzees seem to have a few good eggs, especially if the present state of the world was my own misguided attempt at salvation. 

 

I've thought for a while now that the series would end with having the choice to get rid of the Veil or not but things are a bit more complicated than that now. Fingers crossed for Solas dismantling it and in the raw chaos shouting "You maniacs! Damn you all to hell!". Bonus points for a statue of Mythal in the background.

 

P.S. Something something Void. Something something Forgotten Ones. Something something Adruil. Something something Anvil of the Void. Something something Black City. Something something Blight.

[KumoriYami]

anyone have thoughts about the voices from the well of sorrows?

[TheEggCrusher]

anyone have thoughts about the voices from the well of sorrows?

Well then, let's analyze: 

 

 

Now, when I first heard this my reaction was basically "what the hell? What do you mean mythal speaks the calling, she speaks the truth, etc." I was pretty confused until this one time I went to redcliffe and I heard some interesting dialogue (I think it was after the mythal temple quest). An elf was saying how they met a spirit in their dream who said they were Mythal, and how it was telling him to get ready or something. I not sure about the exact context, but he met mythal in a dream. 

 

My theory is that this is no coincidence. mythal is talking to her people again, possibly preparing them for some "reckoning" for when Solas takes down the veil. She's got a plan, and I also believe she's not in Solas. Flemeth spread her soul throughout Thedas kinda like Voldemort, for "reassurance." When she put something through the eluvian during the epilogue, I believe it was Mythal, or at least a part of her. Someone data-mined the cutscene a while back and found notes saying that Flemeth plans to "pass on her godhood to Morrigan." This was probably why should put Mythal through the eluvian, so Morrigan could become the new host. 

 

So mythal is up and about, rallying the elves, and we all should probably be extremely worried. There's a greater plan beyond Solas and his weird fantasies of elvhen glory, and it's probably going to be extremely elfy and epic. 

[myahele]

Speaking of "unknown flowers blooming"

 

These plants(?) are growing out of red lyrium in the area where you fight corypheus.

 

So all these talk about plants that we see in many codices might actually be more literal than figurative speech

[FrankWisdom]

Concerning the Qunari, the fact that the Iron Bull tell us that the Kossith were apparently different from them makes me believe that they hadn't dragon's blood in them. While there is currently nothing to prove it ingame, I think that the Kossith either were elves who, after the creation of the Veil, tried to take the place of their lost gods, or were outcasts before the Veil, trying to enhance themselves and their servants.

 

Note that the very few we know about them speaks about animistic gods - and each Elven God has a "totem" animal. So, I think that the first Qunari were breed as living weapons, to be used in their wars (since there is apparently references to various nations in the Kossith page on the wiki). It may explain why the Horned Giants find hornlessness frightening : their masters had no horns. It is quite possible that Ashkaari Koslun actually founded the Qun to guide the Living Weapons of the Kossith to freedom from their masters. It would then be dramatic irony that freedom for the Qunari was achieved by the creation of such strict and harsh laws, but maybe it was what was the best suited for creatures who didn't saw themselves as people (and in fact the Antaam's fetishism toward their weapon could be a relic from that age).

 

If this hypothesis is true, then the Ben-Hassrath often not having horns could have been intended by the Kossith, with the Ben(Hassrath being sort of intermediaries between the common Living Weapon and the masters, thus having to be frightening for the warriors to insure obedience. Obviously, at one point in time, it is quite possible that true Kossith joined the Qun under Koslun (it is at least implied by the tales of that age) and that would explain why the society of the Qunari even exist. I guess they were forced to breed with the Horned Giants to unify the race and avoid civil wars, which would have been of paramount importance if all the Kossith kingdoms weren't destroyed, but only a few.

 

 

Spoiler

 

6= Kossith+Dragon=Qunari (or more precisely "humanoid dragons" a.k.a. Men who were Beasts) weredragons? and whatever the "kossith" became after "one could no longer be told from the other", as they were horned before Koslun formed the Qun... Men who were beasts intrigues me.

 

"From the east a great cry"

 

"Cursed them and cursed their generations"

 

The comments stated to a Qunari (Vashoth) inquisitor by Corypheus during their final confrontation also implies the race isn't pure.
Corypheus: "Your blood is engorged with decay. You race isn't a race, it is a mistake."


Kieran also will declare (if your Inquisitor is Qunari or rather "Vashoth") that their blood "doesn't belong" to the Inquisitor's people and express his sorrow at what happened to the people.

 

What Iron Bull speculated about the Qunari resembling dragons is quite interesting. He thinks the fact that they hold dragons as "sacred", apart from them being physically similar (horns mass etc.), might be due to the fact that the Tamassaran's somehow mixed dragon blood within their race, the same way Qunari are carefully bred for specific roles, in order to make them more formidable (physically). This is also speculated to be the cause of their violent and savage nature (the same way Koslun perceived the Kossith to be),  left without the Qun to "guide" them. This also seems to be the way they perceive Dragons, ironically.


As Iron Bull sees it "Dragons are the embodiment of raw power. But it's all uncontrolled, savage... So they need to be destroyed. Taming the wild. Order out of chaos. Have another drink." He also goes on to say " But something in that Dragon we killed... Spoke to me."

 

Bull states that the Qunari "Came to Thedas because the Kossith were... I don't know, we had to leave. The stories aren't clear. But I don't expect they look much like us... Whatever they are."  (However in the official timeline, it is specifically stated that "A Kossith colony of *horned* humanoids settles in the Korcari Wilds in -410 ancient and is later obliterated by darkspawn")

 

The fact that the Qun has no mention of the Kossith or what they embodied or even why they left for Thedas makes Koslun's journey seem... more involved than just searching for a new way of life, which was what birthed the philosophy that became the Qun. The fact that the Kossith came to Thedas in ancient times and were attacked by The Blight makes me wonder if the encounter is what changed them (fundamentally and culturally, not physically) once they (if any survivors) returned with word of their traumatic experiences in Thedas involving darkspawn. This could be the basis of the fracture, between the Kossith and the Qunari (who returned to Thedas suspiciously armed and ready for conquest, with many dreadnaught's to boot) many centuries (in preperation?)  later. I hope this is also something the Dragon Age creative team fleshes out and builds upon. It could make for many interesting possibilities.

[FrankWisdom]

Well then, let's analyze: 

 

 

Now, when I first heard this my reaction was basically "what the hell? What do you mean mythal speaks the calling, she speaks the truth, etc." I was pretty confused until this one time I went to redcliffe and I heard some interesting dialogue (I think it was after the mythal temple quest). An elf was saying how they met a spirit in their dream who said they were Mythal, and how it was telling him to get ready or something. I not sure about the exact context, but he met mythal in a dream. 

 

My theory is that this is no coincidence. mythal is talking to her people again, possibly preparing them for some "reckoning" for when Solas takes down the veil. She's got a plan, and I also believe she's not in Solas. Flemeth spread her soul throughout Thedas kinda like Voldemort, for "reassurance." When she put something through the eluvian during the epilogue, I believe it was Mythal, or at least a part of her. Someone data-mined the cutscene a while back and found notes saying that Flemeth plans to "pass on her godhood to Morrigan." This was probably why should put Mythal through the eluvian, so Morrigan could become the new host. 

 

So mythal is up and about, rallying the elves, and we all should probably be extremely worried. There's a greater plan beyond Solas and his weird fantasies of elvhen glory, and it's probably going to be extremely elfy and epic. 

 

 

Mythal sends something through the eluvian before she gives herself to Solas. This I believe is her gift to Morrigan, who is her "legacy" and in my opinion her rightful heir ascendant. I believe what she sent was part of her essence which probably carried her knowledge as well as part of her power.

 

As for the reckoning you speak of.

 

This is Abelas' "journal". A codex found in the temple of Mythal.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

When Abelas says "You cannot imagine, each time we awaken, it slips further from our grasp."

 

He is talking about  the knowledge of old and the Well of Sorrows, how it was used by their Elders to store their knowledge before they died. He also mentions the younger Elvhen who were born in the temple do not remember what Mythal was in her fullness or the "keeness" of what they lost. He also goes on to say that

 

"I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down."

 

Abelas seems to suggest the Evanuris will be unleashed at some point or that their imprisoning is not a permanent solution. Solas mentions he "has plans" for dealing with the Evanuris once he "tears down the veil". Whether Abelas (if you kept him alive) and other Elvhen are (or were, if you killed them) part of that plan remains to be seen. Perhaps Mythal is the one who told them to prepare, visiting them as Flemythal (which would make sense as Abelas mentions the younger Elvhen not remembering how Mythal was in her "fullness", and she states to the inquisitor she is only a shadow of her former self. This suggests that she visited them in her "lesser" form before being drained by Solas). So a lot of things have yet to come together

[myahele]

Now that we know that Ancient Elves built thing in the deep roads and had to seal them up due to "something" being unleashed.

 

It makes me wonder if Temlen in the Dalish origin saw it? Darkspawn seem to be the obvious choice due to him getting tainted. He says he saw a city underground, great blackness and something saw it.

 

I wonder if Darkspawn/Tainted creatures can even use the eluvians? The Eluvian that Tamlen saw was clearly active since he can see through it and that creature vice-versa

[azarhal]

Spoiler

 

 

You know, I think that the whole Portents of the Maker's return are stuff we are going to see (or have seen):

 

(5) is clearly about Titans waking up and might be related to Eleni Zinovia's prophecy “Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again.” Titan had something fiery inside of them.

(6) Sound like Nature of the Beast in DAO (the men who were beasts being werewolves and cursed for generations), this would mean men and elves are "brothers" though

(7) (not in your screenshot) is about ancient elves waking up but a wolf stole all their dreams with subtlety, ambush and cruel arts *cough*Oh Solas*cough*

(8) The Blight escaping the Black City and invading both the Fade and the real world

 

The rest of Exaltations is a bit over the top. I doubt the issue of the Blight and all fighting is just going to be swept away by the Maker showing with Andraste at his side. I do expect balance to be restored at some point though...

[Setheneran]

I agree with your theories in part OP. I actually think everyone is a spirit - or rather the divine spark that brings what looks like life is a part of the Fade (cf. how to cure tranquil). But I don't think non-elves were created. I think they're spirits too. I just think they all got stuck in what amounted to golems - like the dwarves.

In regards to a couple of quotes from Solas during his romance, he asks:

"What were you like before the anchor? Has it affected you? Changed you in anyway? Your mind, your morals, your... spirit?"

Before he said the word "spirit", he looks away, realizing what he was about to ask but finishes the sentence anyways. The other important quote he says if you chose "I don't want to lose you" then "I love you" as reactions to him leaving the poor Inquisitor behind:

Solas: "You have a rare and marvelous spirit. In another world-"

 

Lavellan: "Why not this one?"

 

Solas: "I can't. I'm sorry..."

If elves were indeed in some way part spirit or something related Cole, the theories about spirits and physical beings losing one or the other when the Veil was lifted could be likely. Maybe something akin to Flemeth who claimed that Mythal is a part of her and that a soul is not forced upon the unwilling.

 

"She is a part of me, no more separate than your heart from your chest."

 

This sort of makes me believe that in the epilogue (the one with both Flemythal and Solas), one doesn't actually take control of the whole mind, body and soul then goes "Oh hey! I just had a sex change! Woohoo! I always wondered what it was like to become an unwashed apostate hobo!" like I've noticed with some theories of who took over who. It's just like how Flemeth doesn't end up saying, "Mother! I'm so much taller. Is this what being a woman feels like? I feel bad for them, having heavy chests and all" after Kieran (Old God version) seemed to willingly pass on the soul to her. Though perhaps some small influence can act upon their actions like the dramatic change of Justice/Anders' views and solutions between DAO and DAII: from being:

"I escaped the Mage tower many, many times. It feels like a prison and has corrupt templars I want people to change that because it's not fair for us"
to
"MAKER'S BA**S, WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD? THE TEMPLARS WILL PAY WITH THEIR BLOOD BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL BAD AND I'LL BLOW UP THE CHANTRY AND NO, IT'S NOT IN THE NAME OF VENGENCE"

Then you have the Avvar and spirits merging (or something along those lines) with children in order to teach them things. Forgive me, I didn't play JoH. These things are so complicated but yet the truth might be so simple. The Inquisitor, or elvhen one at least, seems to have this "special" thing about them, and it is not the mark that caused this. I'm not sure if this applies to every race (save for the dwarves perhaps) or class having some lovely dovey or evil envy spirit/demon/ScaryGhostThingThatIsAPartOfYou. Or if it is just a very few, rare even, people that have this type of "spirit" fragment as a part of them regardless of race. Dwarves don't dream, meaning that something makes them resistant to its link, possibly in the blood: Surface-born or underground, dwarves are somehow like us when we get chicken pox but we're mostly resistant afterwards. What's weird is that Tranquil still dream, as Pharamond, once a Tranquil himself, from Asunder, explains: 

 

Pharamond: "I realized early on that Tranquility wasn't repairable on this side of the Fade. It needed to be done from the other side. A spirit had to bridge that gap - and it could only do that if it knew exactly where to look. The Rite renders the Tranquil invisible to spirits."

 

Evangeline: ​"They're not just invisible, they're immune..."

 

Pharamond: "Not immune!" The elf became excited, in the manner of a scholar speaking on his favorite subject. "Undesirable! A demon looks to possess a man because it wishes to experience life. To them a Tranquil is no better than an inanimate object. Worse, since a Tranquil will resist. If it is going to cross that bridge to possess a Tranquil, it needs to be lured..."

 

Sounds like these demons are ones who wanted physical forms and can only do that by finding little unbroken bridges in the veil like possessing a mage or pressing against where the veil is thin like blood seeping out of a cut. If it is a possibility, most likely mages and elves could have some minor or dormant essence that acts as that "cut" for them connect to and channel energy from the Fade in some way or intensity. How large the "cut" is allows them to channel more energy. Though we do know that non-mage humans can dream too, but not as vividly and powerful as mages, maybe like a few pin pricks across the skin. Speaking of blood, don't Thedosians say that demons usually press against the veil in place where large incidents of death have a occurred such as battlefields? If so, it would be something like blood magic, for example, how the magisters opened the veil and entered physically with large quantities of blood magic, elf blood in particular according to a codex found in the Fade during Here Lies The Abyss. In another thread (or this one, I can't remember lol), some have speculated that Solas is amassing this herd of oblivious and possibly some non oblivious elves for a blood magic ritual to weaken and tear open the veil. There was more about why this would be an option and reasons to which Solas would do such a thing but I can't remember where.

 

I don't know but it's just a hunch   
 

[sunnydxmen]

It seems that not all elves were mages for one. It seems the magic elves had relates to the immortality aspect of elves.
In the temple of mythal, many of them were warriors and rogues for example.
Possibly they have some inherent magical ability- faster reflexes and accuracy with arrows, but other than that many elves were normal prior to the creation of the veil.

 

they very well could have been using the arcane warrior power to do in version to use rogue abilities. elven magic is the most versatile of magics known .

[FrankWisdom]

You know, I think that the whole Portents of the Maker's return are stuff we are going to see (or have seen):

 

(5) is clearly about Titans waking up and might be related to Eleni Zinovia's prophecy “Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again.” Titan had something fiery inside of them.

(6) Sound like Nature of the Beast in DAO (the men who were beasts being werewolves and cursed for generations), this would mean men and elves are "brothers" though

(7) (not in your screenshot) is about ancient elves waking up but a wolf stole all their dreams with subtlety, ambush and cruel arts *cough*Oh Solas*cough*

(8) The Blight escaping the Black City and invading both the Fade and the real world

 

The rest of Exaltations is a bit over the top. I doubt the issue of the Blight and all fighting is just going to be swept away by the Maker showing with Andraste at his side. I do expect balance to be restored at some point though...

Yep posted the whole thing on my thread with my interpretations. Feel free to chime in if you want

 

http://forum.bioware...discussions-20/

[TheEggCrusher]

Mythal sends something through the eluvian before she gives herself to Solas. This I believe is her gift to Morrigan, who is her "legacy" and in my opinion her rightful heir ascendant. I believe what she sent was part of her essence which probably carried her knowledge as well as part of her power.

 

As for the reckoning you speak of.

 

This is Abelas' "journal". A codex found in the temple of Mythal.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

When Abelas says "You cannot imagine, each time we awaken, it slips further from our grasp."

 

He is talking about  the knowledge of old and the Well of Sorrows, how it was used by their Elders to store their knowledge before they died. He also mentions the younger Elvhen who were born in the temple do not remember what Mythal was in her fullness or the "keeness" of what they lost. He also goes on to say that

 

"I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down."

 

Abelas seems to suggest the Evanuris will be unleashed at some point or that their imprisoning is not a permanent solution. Solas mentions he "has plans" for dealing with the Evanuris once he "tears down the veil". Whether Abelas (if you kept him alive) and other Elvhen are (or were, if you killed them) part of that plan remains to be seen. Perhaps Mythal is the one who told them to prepare, visiting them as Flemythal (which would make sense as Abelas mentions the younger Elvhen not remembering how Mythal was in her "fullness", and she states to the inquisitor she is only a shadow of her former self. This suggests that she visited them in her "lesser" form before being drained by Solas). So a lot of things have yet to come together

I have no doubt in my mind that Solas' plan for the Evanuris will fail, to a certain extent. Mythal seems to be trying to prepare the elves for something or another, and now that I see that codex I agree with you that it most likely has to do with Solas unleashing the Evanuris, and possibly what occurs during or after being the "reckoning." 

 

What's really interesting though is her belief in the modern elves, not only the ancient. She calls an elven quissy "one of The People" and, if the elf from Redcliffe really did meet Mythal in a dream, she is communicating with not only her ancient followers but modern elves as well, which she could could rally to her cause at some point later, whatever that cause might be. 

 

She seems to be using Solas as well, for a greater purpose, and plans for Morrigan to intervene at some point. She is manipulative but she is not irrational or bigoted. She would not sacrifice the modern world for the old, like Solas, and seems to be more levelheaded in that respect. She will probably succeed over him (Solas) in whatever plan she has, and he will probably be sacrificed in the process, in one way or another. 

 

Here's a video from the Solas thread that is extremely telling of Mythal/Flemeth's character: 

 

[FrankWisdom]

I have no doubt in my mind that Solas' plan for the Evanuris will fail, to a certain extent. Mythal seems to be trying to prepare the elves for something or another, and now that I see that codex I agree with you that it most likely has to do with Solas unleashing the Evanuris, and possibly what occurs during or after being the "reckoning." 

 

What's really interesting though is her belief in the modern elves, not only the ancient. She calls an elven quissy "one of The People" and, if the elf from Redcliffe really did meet Mythal in a dream, she is communicating with not only her ancient followers but modern elves as well, which she could could rally to her cause at some point later, whatever that cause might be. 

 

She seems to be using Solas as well, for a greater purpose, and plans for Morrigan to intervene at some point. She is manipulative but she is not irrational or bigoted. She would not sacrifice the modern world for the old, like Solas, and seems to be more levelheaded in that respect. She will probably succeed over him (Solas) in whatever plan she has, and he will probably be sacrificed in the process, in one way or another. 

 

Here's a video from the Solas thread that is extremely telling of Mythal/Flemeth's character: 

 

 

I love Kate Mulgrew's voice, she's also a very talented actress. A lot of people have bashed Star Trek Voyager but her as Captain Janeway was not the problem with that series.

 

As for Flemeth/Mythal, yes that's pretty much how I saw the character.

 

You mentioned "What's really interesting though is her belief in the modern elves, not only the ancient."

 

Remember that Flemythal not only has been among the mortal races for centuries if not millennia, but she is bonded to one. She has seen the world through a mortal's eyes and has suffered as well as felt joy along with her. Mythal saw kinship through Flemeth. She found acceptance and probably felt vulnerable for the first time in her life and both of these women found the courage to help each other in their time of need. Mythal said that for centuries she suffered broken, a wisp of her former self. That gives you time to put things in perspective.

 

The fact that she knows just how dangerous the Evanuris are, not only having been one of them, but having been struck down by them, then it is not unlikely that her perspective is infinitely different than that of Solas, who is a stranger in a strange world. He depersonalized beings in order to complete his mission. Of course the Inquisitor made him see the world as it was, which tore Solas up, but ultimately did not dissuade him. He has not lived through the same things Mythal has and given his notion of time, then what is 3 years to an effectively immortal being.

 

I think people need to put his situation in perspective. In no way am I condoning his actions but I do see through his motivations and the position in which he was placed. I understand how he must feel, though I know this does not justify his actions. Whether intentional or not, mistake or not, guilt or not, he made place for something new. Destroying in order to create. A reckoning is coming and balance will be restored, though by who is yet to be decided.

 

Oh and thanks for sharing the video, it was an interesting watch

[TheEggCrusher]

I love Kate Mulgrew's voice, she's also a very talented actress. A lot of people have bashed Star Trek Voyager but her as Captain Janeway was not the problem with that series.

 

As for Flemeth/Mythal, yes that's pretty much how I saw the character.

 

You mentioned "What's really interesting though is her belief in the modern elves, not only the ancient."

 

Remember that Flemythal not only has been among the mortal races for centuries if not millennia, but she is bonded to one. She has seen the world through a mortal's eyes and has suffered as well as felt joy along with her. Mythal saw kinship through Flemeth. She found acceptance and probably felt vulnerable for the first time in her life and both of these women found the courage to help each other in their time of need. Mythal said that for centuries she suffered broken, a wisp of her former self. That gives you time to put things in perspective.

 

The fact that she knows just how dangerous the Evanuris are, not only having been one of them, but having been struck down by them, then it is not unlikely that her perspective is infinitely different than that of Solas, who is a stranger in a strange world. He depersonalized beings in order to complete his mission. Of course the Inquisitor made him see the world as it was, which tore Solas up, but ultimately did not dissuade him. He has not lived through the same things Mythal has and given his notion of time, then what is 3 years to an effectively immortal being.

 

I think people need to put his situation in perspective. In no way am I condoning his actions but I do see though his motivations and the position in which he was placed. I understand how he must feel, though I know this does not justify his actions. Whether intentional or not, mistake or not, guilt or not, he made place for something new. Destroying in order to create. A reckoning is coming and balance will be restored, though by who is yet to be decided.

I completely agree. I do not condone Solas' actions, though I may prefer the veil not being there, but I do understand his perspective, especially when I take into account the short amount of time he's been awake. 

 

Mythal/Flemeth has been forming the new world from what Solas had abandoned, and I doubt she would find it best to tear it down now. 

 

Whether who will cause this reckoning, I think, directly, it will be Solas, while Mythal will be the driving force behind it all. Morrigan will most likely take a role of great power in this situation, and play a key piece in, as you put it, bringing balance to the world, or righting whatever great wrong was committed before (probably tied in with the Evanuris somehow having a hand in provoking the blight).

 

The veil will most likely be torn down, considering Sandal's quote from DA:2, and the elves (ancient and modern) will probably get a new home of their own, though not a new Elvhenan, but rather more similar to how the Jews got a part of Palestine after WW2. 

[Kallimachus]

PART 2: ELVHEN SOCIETY, THE CREATORS 

 

Spoiler

Over millennia, they became cultured. Small villages became towns, then civilizations, then small empires. These Empires warred for control, and where some succeeded, others fell. Each Empire had leaders, generals, which lead them, and when they gained more power they gained more elves under their rule. 

 

These "generals" are what later become the Evanuris, the Creators, the Elvhen Gods. 

 

As Solas says in the ending scene of Trespasser: "It started with a war. War breeds fear. Fear breeds a desire for simplicity. Good and evil, right and wrong, chains of command. After the war ended, generals became respected elders, then kings, and finally, gods." 

 

Once the leading powers came into an agreement, they started Elvhenan, the unified Elvhen Empire. 

 

These leaders would have been Elgar'nan, Mythal, Falon'Din, Dirthamen, Andruil, Sylaise, and June. 

 

 

 

I have to disagree with one point here: I do not believe the war to which Solas refers was a war among the Evanuris. I believe the war would more likely have been a combined effort of these Elven leaders against an outsider, one that was seen as threatening and dangerous to the existence or nature of Elven society. I think probably the most likely candidates for that was the Titans.

[RedMagister]

http://virdirthan.wi...dda Bright-Axe 

 

just thought id repost it here !

[Abelis]

I think that the hypothesis that Solas was a spirit once is true or that there is a great deal of truth to the hypothesis. [/spoiler]

 

Here's why I think that.

 

1) When we see Solas in the Crossroads, we saw him cast spells purely by thought without requiring any form of hand motions except for glowy eyes. We have only witnessed this type of spellcasting twice before. We saw it in DA2 Anders where he is merged with a spirit of Justice. We saw it in DAO when Wynne uses the Vessel of the Spirit ability which causes her entire body to glow blue.

 

2) Solas is a Rift Mage. If your Inquisitor chooses to become a Rift Mage, you can talk to Cole and he approves while saying this:- "Solas is the same, but quieter. The Fade is his friend. He doesn't need to look to know where it goes....Yes. It's different, but familiar. It reminds me of me." Now we know Solas is a dreamer mage but could there be more reasons why he loves the Fade and regards it as his friend ? Cole even says that being a Rift Mage makes the Inquisitor feel spirit-like. Solas is a Rift Mage.

 

 

This. Solas being a spirit once would also explain this Blackwall - Solas banter better.

 

 

It takes a Spirit to know that Spirit sex is not that simple. Notice how he did not answer Blackwall's question definitely. Perhaps when Andruil tied him down and wanted to have sex with him for a year, she was doing it to spirit Solas using her Vallaslin. Mythal then rescued him and Solas burned off Andruil's Vallaslin. 

 

Now Cole's line about "coming but not wanting to..." in Trespasser takes on a whole new meaning.

 

As for Solas at a young age, perhaps Spirits in ancient Elvhenan formed little towns ? Or the more likely explanation is that Solas was a spirit of Wisdom living among Elves in a small village. He was a very talented Spirit of Wisdom since like mortals, not all spirits are equal.

 

Andruil called him to her to...use him...In doing so changed him from Spirit of Wisdom to an ancient Elf of Pride...& Mythal then rescued him ?

 

 

Now this is obviously a Dalish fairy tale & the elf Hawke is a mod.

 

Having said that, I think it is too much of a coincidence that in the game where we don't have a Mabari hound as a companion, the Dread Wolf shows up and does his shenanigans.

 

I bet you anything that a Mabari hound, especially a really smart one, would have seen through Solas for what he is right off the bat. Perhaps that is the reason our Inquisitor did not get a Mabari hound.

 

So here's how we stop Solas in the future:- Mabari hounds painted with Kaddis that have caffeine in them.

 

What do you all think ?

About the story of Andruil tying down Fen'harel and wanting him to server her for 1year+1day, there is another story that says the hunter awoke the wolf in forest while hunting. And the wolf instead of attacking the hunter made a deal. They would switch bodies/roles for a year and a day. I find it strange that a hunter and a wolf is involved for the specific timing "a year end a day" (this is from WoT2, if anyone can find it, it would be nice, i dont remember it very good)

*Edit* sorry it was wot1 and i remembered it differently, so my point got a bit blurry now. (ill put under spoiler, so i dont spam)

Spoiler

Let me sing of heroes and honor lost and found,

Of monsters and men in all forms,

Of Dane, hunter without peer,

Feared by the forests of Ferelden,

Who one autumn morn spied

A hart of pure white in beam of warmest sun,

A prize for huntsman's spear.

Through the greenwood they ran, hart and hunter

Bringing the stag to spear at last in a long-forgotten grove,

Heedless that the chase had waked a hunger in the golden wood,

A werewolf, a creature with mind of man,

Lured by the hunt and come forth to lay claim

To the hart as rightful tribute,

Drawn by the scent of cooling blood.

ln the silence the two hunters held.

Dane, spear-armed against the wolf with all his brood,

Knew with sinking heart he was lost,

Steeled for the winding roads of the Fade.

Then the beast spoke, human-like in voice,

~You have taken this stag from my woods, and my pack,

But nothing comes without a cost.~

 

 

The wolf pack circled, ever closer, and he
Who felled boars and bears with his bright blade
Knew fear. They spoke his name in roars
Like gravestones, offering a beast's bargain.
~Die here, huntsman, alone
And forgotten, or take my place amongst the wolves
As I take your place amongst men.~
Thus a bargain struck,
And Dane the wolf pack served in wolfen form,
And the werewolf to his family sped, as Dane,
One year and a day all told.
But some things cannot be repent,
Some coinage cannot be unspent,
When hearts are wagered, a fissure rent

- From the saga Dane and the
Werewolf, as recorded by tlie
minstrel Uccam, 4:85 Black

Modifié par Abelis, 18 septembre 2015 - 12:14 .

[LatteRene]

I have been replaying DAI with a human inquisitor. She just got to the balcony scene with Solas where he talks about her rare spirit and perhaps misjudging her people. When he is asking the line of questions trying to figure out how the inquisitor came to be the person she is, you have a dialogue option to mention other people serving the Inquisition. Solas counters that although Cassandra has admirable faith, she keeps reason separate from it. Then he comments on Leiliana's brilliant mind but damaged faith. Even though his banters make it seem like he respects Cassandra, I'm not sure she even qualifies as "people" to him because she keeps spirit separate from self in his eyes. I think this supports your assertion that ancient elves were spirit-selves; creatures of united duality. Also remember that Cole describes Solas as a spirit self.

[azarhal]

About the story of Andruil tying down Fen'harel and wanting him to server her for 1year+1day, there is another story that says the hunter awoke the wolf in forest while hunting. And the wolf instead of attacking the hunter made a deal. They would switch bodies/roles for a year and a day. I find it strange that a hunter and a wolf is involved for the specific timing "a year end a day" (this is from WoT2, if anyone can find it, it would be nice, i dont remember it very good)

 

 Oh interesting. I'll have to check my WoT2 tonight.

 

I personally believe that a lot of tales the Dalish have about their gods strayed a lot from their roots because of bias (their hatred for Tevinter), allegory lost to time (stuff like air= fade), translation issues and, well you know, keeping the information 100% oral (aka Chinese Whispers/Telephone). They got a lots of base stuff right, it's mostly the details that are misinterpreted or simply forgotten (for example, the Enuvaris were worshiped as gods, the fact they started as mages is forgotten or ignored). Also, I think many BSNers are missing the little fact that while Solas call his action a rebellion to free the People, the nobles and gods he cast down didn't see it that way. Once you realize that the Dalish clans are based off Noble clans they recreated in the Dales, well a great many things make sense in their interpretation.

 

There is also point of views that seems to oppose themselves, that's probably both because of misinterpretation and because the Dalish clans aren't unified in belief. For example, in DAI, there is two lore texts that link the owl to two different gods: Falon'Din and Andruil. The role of the owl seems to be less or more the same: help people find their way. The Andruil's text is about the owl being her messenger and helping Dalish finding new lands to settles. The Falon'Din one is a tale (go down to Guide of Falon'Din), where Falon'Din in the Fade wanted a companion and an owl came to him, then the tales goes on saying that the owl guided the elves cross the Veil. The veil didn't exist back then, so what ever story they found about Falon'Din and owl was reinterpreted post-Veil. I wouldn't be surprised if the real tale was about Andruil going to find Falon'Din in the Fade after his death.

[Abelis]

Actually its from wot1, edited my port above accordingly

[PixelJunkie]

So what are the chances, that all elves were originally spirits who decided to leave the fade and take corporal form? The less powerful could only assume one, the more powerful (Forgotten/Forbidden ones and the "gods") could shapeshift, for example into dragons.
I definitely like your theory.
 
Edit: It would also explain the original use of the vallaslin. Maybe the "gods" used it to bind unwilling spirits into corporal form and their service?

Yes! During that whole business with the binding crystal for Cole's personal quest to become more human, I wonder if the process is related to this and the reason Solas knew about it is because he's an Evanuris?

[Absafraginlootly]

To be fair to the Dalish its not like they mistook powerful mages for gods or misread ancient texts, the Evanuris claimed to be them and filled the world with temples and texts about how godly they were, the Dalish found these things and took them for truth not knowing that they were propaganda.