26 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

The Mage vs Templar choice? Meaningless.

 

The Divine choice meaningless as the College of Enchanters always gets created and is allowed to continue it's existence even with Viviene as Divine, and regardless of whether or not you had the mages.

 

The ruler of Orlais choice? Meaningless, sure it gets brought up but it has no actual impact. Remember how the epilogue slides mentioned that Briala or Gaspard owed their continued rule of Orlais to the Inquisition's support? Yeah let's ignore that.

Perhaps the biggest issue is that the whole Herald of Andraste thing is meaningless. You know the thing that created the religious and personal conflict in Inquisition. The thing that allowed the Inquisition and the Inquisitor to get as much power as they did? Yeah it doesn't matter that people think we were chosen by Andraste herself. It never gets brought up and before anyone comments, what that spirit in the Fade showed us does not matter as we didn't tell anyone about it.

 

[TobiTobsen]

Is that really something new? Nearly all our choices get handwaved away in the games, so I'm not really suprised that it ends up with nearly the same ending again.

[JamieCOTC]

This is the way I look at it. Your choices matter only in the moment. It's not about what happens in the next game, but how you define the current experience and playable character. Go w/ that philosophy and you'll be much happier. It's worked for me.

[Tython]

Your choices matter more then in most games. There's a fine line between what a developer can do with a game and the different directions choices can take it. Witcher 2 had a big choice that made it two separate games but seemed much shorter than Witcher 1 and 3 as a result. Would you rather have a lot of meaningful choices or a longer game? Getting both would be costly in this environment and would be like designing 3-4 games in one. Not very realistic.

[Costin_Razvan]

Surprised? Not quite, but seriously it really pisses me off as the choices I listed and the consequences as written in the epilogue along with the Herald+religious conflict were what made Inquisition game.

So what does Bioware do to their best selling game with the final DLC? They RUIN EVERYTHING.

People need to stop swallowing bilge from developers on this.

[zeypher]

This had to happen, otherwise you cannot have continuity. I always believe choice and consequence should be dealt within a particular game itself. Meaning the start and end is same for everybody, only difference is how one gets there. 

[Costin_Razvan]

This is a game series predicated on choices, where the developers spent time and money building an entire system to import your choices, where there ARE choices with actual consequences carried over the series ( Loghain says hello ).

 

Any argument against this is a load of bilge. So no it didn't "have to happen".

[rprm1987]

I don't think so. Our choices mattered for two years. But what we have is an intermediate event which moves towards DA4. So I didnt have any problem at all.

[Dabrikishaw]

I get both sides

 

On one hand, yes branches needed to be cut off in order to have an easier time creating new games with a workable continuity for budget reasons.

 

On the other hand it's not unreasonable to assume Bioware got better about handling consequences this large, something that would have allowed us to have our cake and eat it too. Maybe those of use as disappointed as Costin were just being optimistic about it, but since were leaving the south it seemed like no major railroading would occur this time.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

Sorry, OP, but you're wrong.  They matter.  Why do they matter?  Because they mold just who your Inquisitor is and how he/she will be remembered by the people and nations of Thedas.

 

 

It may not have any substantial bearing on what goes on in the next game, though I suspect some choices will, but it matters to your character that you're playing.  Remember, it isn't YOU, it is your character.

[PhoenixAeon]

The Mage vs Templar choice? Meaningless.

 

The Divine choice meaningless as the College of Enchanters always gets created and is allowed to continue it's existence even with Viviene as Divine, and regardless of whether or not you had the mages.

 

The ruler of Orlais choice? Meaningless, sure it gets brought up but it has no actual impact. Remember how the epilogue slides mentioned that Briala or Gaspard owed their continued rule of Orlais to the Inquisition's support? Yeah let's ignore that.

Perhaps the biggest issue is that the whole Herald of Andraste thing is meaningless. You know the thing that created the religious and personal conflict in Inquisition. The thing that allowed the Inquisition and the Inquisitor to get as much power as they did? Yeah it doesn't matter that people think we were chosen by Andraste herself. It never gets brought up and before anyone comments, what that spirit in the Fade showed us does not matter as we didn't tell anyone about it.

 

 

Actually Trespasser appears to be bugged.  My choice for Orlais is wrong, and a few other mistakes I noticed in the Trespasser Epilogue.  I hope they will fix it. 

 

1. Mage /Templar conflict was resolved. The DLC is focused on the Inquisition and it's fate. 

2. Ruler of Orlais will really be something for the next game, again, the DLC is not meant to address this.

3. Herald of Andraste - This was not the point of the DLC or to be addressed, but if you noticed everyone is calling you Inquisitor and not Your Worship or Herald.  

 

I don't know how I feel about the second epilogue. I don't know if it was really needed. Also, I could barely read it, it goes way too fast.

 

What really upset me the most was the one thing that made the Inquisitor special was taken away from you.

 

1. The Inquisition ether disbands, or is under Chantry rule.   I guess this was needed to setup the next game.

2. Losing your Anchor/Mark (and half your arm!?!) - You never mastered it? In two years the Inquisitor never learned about their mark/magic?  

3. Clearly the Inquisitor states his "adventuring" is over. But still alive whatever good that will do you.  You now have no special power to combat Solas/Fen'harel.

4. The Qunari are even MORE powerful and the one power you had to really fight these new powerful Seerabas is gone. 

 

Honestly, I could of carried on with more post adventures as the Inquisitor in DAI.  There was so much more that could of been done. 

[phimseto]

This is a game series predicated on choices, where the developers spent time and money building an entire system to import your choices, where there ARE choices with actual consequences carried over the series ( Loghain says hello ).

 

Any argument against this is a load of bilge. So no it didn't "have to happen".

 

Just have to say that I dig your profile pic, Costin. #TeamRoche

[Costin_Razvan]

Maybe those of use as disappointed as Costin were just being optimistic about it, but since were leaving the south it seemed like no major railroading would occur this time.

And if we had just done that without the DLC I would have been fine with it.
 

[Kabraxal]

Weird.... considering my second run so far has had some nice and notable differences based on my past choices.  Guess I'm just imagining things then.

[Mr.House]

I will give Costin the first point, it really annoys me and kinda ruins the progress my quizy and Vivie made.

 

However there are still consequences for certain choices, the qunari one is a very big one and some characters can get a really bad deal (Cullen continuing to take lyruim)

 

 

As for the herald, you can in fact have Josie tell people what really happened in the fade and Cass writes something that details what happen in the fade. In fact the whole herald thing really starts to stop after the truth is revealed, so no surprise it's not there after two years.

[Vordish]

Yeah, lets have Bioware gloss over the fact on how the entire game is predicated on the fact that your supposed to be "The Herald of Andraste".

 

1. Andraste, who is supposed to be the DA equivalent to Jesus Christ.

 

2. The Chantry which is supposed to represent the "Christian Church".

 

3. The Chant of Light which is supposed to represent the Gospel as its supposed to be preached to the entire world which is reminiscent of what is known as "The Great Commission".

 

4. The Maker which is supposed to represent the Almighty.

 

5. The Golden City which is an analogy of the throne of God in "heaven" which also is reminiscent of New Jersualem which is described as a Golden City in Revelations.

 

6. Spirits which were supposed to be the firstborn of the Maker are analogous to "Angels" where the ones that wish harm to mortals are "demons".

 

7. The Black and White Divines is analogous to "The Great Schism" of Christianity itself in history.

 

8. Solas being in the place of Judas in the promotional war table picture with the Inquisitor in the place of Christ as a type of Messiah figure.

 

9. Solas also playing the role, for all intents and purposes, of the Devil. A liar, a cheat and a willing mass murderer.

 

Etc...etc...etc.

 

Yet, lets keep it a "matter of faith"(Bioware doesn't given any indication of distinguishing between blind faith and faith on evidence) concerning the existence of the Maker...but we will explain everything about the elves and dwarves and spirits and whatever! 

 

Hogwash. The real reason as to why this game series got so popular is because Bioware actually dared to use Christianity and the Bible as a reference for their equivalent in the game world. No one wants to acknowledge it or say it.

 

Nope. We have to concentrate on liberal/social progressive issues because we wont get a pay-check otherwise!

[Rekkampum]

The Mage vs Templar choice? Meaningless.

 

The Divine choice meaningless as the College of Enchanters always gets created and is allowed to continue it's existence even with Viviene as Divine, and regardless of whether or not you had the mages.

 

The ruler of Orlais choice? Meaningless, sure it gets brought up but it has no actual impact. Remember how the epilogue slides mentioned that Briala or Gaspard owed their continued rule of Orlais to the Inquisition's support? Yeah let's ignore that.

Perhaps the biggest issue is that the whole Herald of Andraste thing is meaningless. You know the thing that created the religious and personal conflict in Inquisition. The thing that allowed the Inquisition and the Inquisitor to get as much power as they did? Yeah it doesn't matter that people think we were chosen by Andraste herself. It never gets brought up and before anyone comments, what that spirit in the Fade showed us does not matter as we didn't tell anyone about it.

 

The choices matter. You're forgetting that the Inquisition is a major political entity with no specific allegiance to any country. The very fact that they single-handedly played an influence, during a Civil War of all things, in the election of the current ruling power(s) is automatically guaranteed that their support of the current ruler would nonetheless stand as a buffer against any dissenters still vying for power. The Inquisition's support essentially symbolizes that their rule is legitimate.

Also, the Divine decision is also important, especially if a hardened Leliana becomes Divine. Viv being in power is a constant force of controversy because of her status as a mage, and Cassandra is viewed as too conservative. There are a lot of things happening aside from the College of Enchanters forming.

 

Re: Andraste, you can tell the public that it was just the Divine who saved the Herald when speaking to Josephine afterward, as there are several instances where she'll ask you for input on various political matters. Constantly denying you're the Herald in fact grants you the option to respond that you don't believe in Gods when you speak with Corypheus, or if you're insistent that you are the Herald, that you're chosen by the Maker.

Spoiler

Continuing to promote the idea that you are the Herald even grants you the option to grant divine forgiveness to Ser Ruth after Here lies the Abyss.

I would say that not literally being saved by Andraste doesn't necessarily mean, from a theological standpoint, that neither Andraste or the Maker had any metaphysical role in what you've been doing. The mythos has always been ambiguous in that regard.

Spoiler

Varric even becomes convinced that you are if you ask his opinion on it after you've progressed far enough into the story. I don't know if approval is tied to it(it could be, but I'm not sure).

 

I think the problem - and this really applies to narrative-heavy games that utilize the idea of choice - is that some of these things are too complex to be implemented from a gameplay perspective due to technical limitations. There's also the delicate balance that comes in play in who ultimately controls the story itself. Ultimately Bioware does and is simply offering players a chance within the confines of it to craft their own experiences; complete player choice is ultimately illusory as the choices and their consequences must always serve the story and not vice-versa, and in some cases will introduce results that were unexpected entirely. It's nice to see however, in spite of various disappointments, that they are at least trying to find ways to creatively mitigate this so that they do have consequences that are meaningful.

[BansheeOwnage]

This is the way I look at it. Your choices matter only in the moment. It's not about what happens in the next game, but how you define the current experience and playable character. Go w/ that philosophy and you'll be much happier. It's worked for me.

That's a great philosophy when it comes to tempering expectations, but here's the problem when it comes to design: Dragon Age, as opposed to Mass Effect, is apparently supposed to be the story of Thedas and how it gets shaped through our protagonists' choices. Alright. That's great too, but if that's going to be the focus of your series, you need to put in the effort and resources to make it actually happen.

 

It didn't matter so much in ME because it was a more personal story, and it was meant to be. If Dragon Age is supposed to be about the Dragon Age universe, making choices matter and truly make a difference is essential. Since that's not really the case, I'd rather they make more personal stories again.

[BansheeOwnage]

Sorry, OP, but you're wrong.  They matter.  Why do they matter?  Because they mold just who your Inquisitor is and how he/she will be remembered by the people and nations of Thedas.

 

It may not have any substantial bearing on what goes on in the next game, though I suspect some choices will, but it matters to your character that you're playing.  Remember, it isn't YOU, it is your character.

Actually, you're wrong, because according to Bioware, the games are about Thedas first, and our protagonists second. It's not supposed to be about how you're remembered, but about how you shape the world. The point is that it is supposed to have substantial bearing on the next game. You can disagree with them if you want, and in some ways I do, but that's what they're advertising.

[Serza]

Drinkquisition! To booze!

 

Tonight, we shall drink out all of Cabot's reserves!

 

Why, ask ye? Because BSN claims falsehoods yet again!

[Daerog]

 

*snip*

 

You are oversimplifying things, and the devs have acknowledged the similarities, because they were on purpose. They made Andraste into a savior Joan of Arc, the Chantry's structure (although, not its theology, since the Chantry is kind of a deism religion... sort of...) is based off the Catholic Church, and Chrisitian/Biblical imagery is used in all kinds of mediums (movies, books, games, etc.). The devs were very open about this from the start.

 

They also said how much of the cultures and histories were based on or inspired by other European cultures and histories. Ever take the map of Thedas and flip it upside down? It's basically Europe.

 

Although, I do love being able to play a game with a religious character. Not often one can do that, or at least have that character show his or her faith in game. Being able to say "I am the Maker's Chosen!" was pretty fun in my Andrastian Human playthrough.

 

Edit: although, the whole "maker's chosen" is the part where the deism and the Maker's "abandonment" starts to get confusing. Does BW want to keep the deism they kind of started with in Origins, or do they wish to have the Chantry believe the Maker subtly interferes sometimes? Or at least has Andraste intervene on the Maker's behalf? Because "Andraste's Chosen" would have made more sense than "The Maker's Chosen."

[Rekkampum]

Drinkquisition! To booze!

 

Tonight, we shall drink out all of Cabot's reserves!

 

Why, ask ye? Because BSN claims falsehoods yet again!

 

DAMNIT! You beat me to it.

[Serza]

DAMNIT! You beat me to it.

 

I fight side by side with The Will of The Herald of the Drinkquisition!

 

Of course I beat you to it.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

Actually, you're wrong, because according to Bioware, the games are about Thedas first, and our protagonists second. It's not supposed to be about how you're remembered, but about how you shape the world. The point is that it is supposed to have substantial bearing on the next game. You can disagree with them if you want, and in some ways I do, but that's what they're advertising.

 

No no, you're right!  In fact, that's one of the reasons why I argue that the Inquisitor should not be in the next game.  I -like- that each chapter of the Dragon Age story has a new protagonist. 

 

Argh, I don't articulate myself well, but what I was trying to say is that internally, to the player, each of their characters should be important and remembered for how they affected the world and its people. Eh, that's still sucks.  If I can think of a better way to word it, I'll come back to this.

 

 

I fight side by side with The Will of The Herald of the Drinkquisition!

 

*Beren genuflects*

[Rekkampum]

You are oversimplifying things, and the devs have acknowledged the similarities, because they were on purpose. They made Andraste into a savior Joan of Arc, the Chantry's structure (although, not its theology, since the Chantry is kind of a deism religion... sort of...) is based off the Catholic Church, and Chrisitian/Biblical imagery is used in all kinds of mediums (movies, books, games, etc.). The devs were very open about this from the start.

 

They also said how much of the cultures and histories were based on or inspired by other European cultures and histories. Ever take the map of Thedas and flip it upside down? It's basically Europe.

 

 

They even have bards singing in French in Orlais. That kind of annoyed me though.