1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Starwingz]

Hi,

I dont have stamina and much time to write on the boards often but there is thing thats been really bothering me and has been talked to death: DA Protagonists (HoF, Hawke, Quizzy). No matter how you look at it will always, ALWAYS end up being a disaster when you move into EVERY new DA game with new protagonist since you will have two options of dealing with it:

 

 

1.) Leave them completely out of the game and never see them again (HoF style) which is extremely lame and is a giant downer that kills mood. ("Oh look big stuff is going on with Grey Wardens and mystery of Archdemons.... oh and there is no mention of HoF despite being one of biggest figure with Wardens!" kind of thing).

 

OR

 

2.) Include them into the game (Which would happen in other games but this is RPG) and have 95% chance to screw up by making them act out of character (Hawke style; blood magic hater who romanced/befriended blood mage and supported her blood magic use(LOL!)) which will make people pissed off or in lucky cases indifferent.

 

 

You don't need to be genius to realize that there is no win-win with system that is currently used and that this problem will only get worse with every completely new protagonist showing up and old protagonists mysteriously evading him, while their 30+ LIs show up alone and give lame generic "I will join him soon." lines with other people giving boring "Yea I knew him." line. People complain which one of these options should be used but they never think out of the box and heres where you see that problem lies in the foundation of the game itself. Best way to describe this is that you are standing in a fire and are protecting yourself from being burned instead of walking out of freaking fire! Current foundation of the game just doesn't work with new protagonists. New protagonists in every new RPG game that are not canonized would work best if there wasn't ANY CONNECTION TO PAST GAMES...SIMPLY SAID BRAND NEW CAST. Elder Scrolls does this by putting 250+ years betwen each year where almost everyone died. Looking back at DA its just painful running around with different protagonist and RP like I dont know familiar faces. Everytime I did that I was thinking to myself how much better conversation would be if I was talking through my old protagonist. New protagonists wouldve worked far better if there was brand new cast set 100+ years after DAO.

 

 

But this shaky foundation doesn't affect only protagonists, it also affects the whole game series. When I played from DAO and DAI I had this constant feeling that Bioware doesn't know what its doing or where this series is headed. DAO was nice game but after that there is this overwhelming feeling that they didnt know how to continue series and just decided to make DA2 with new protagonist Hawke without thinking over it for a moment. Its like Bioware said "Yes that is so cool, lets implant this!" without thinking how it affects the future. They decide to bring US HoF back in Awakening with weak excuse claiming he somehow survived but then they again change their mind and decide that HoF was dead whole time. Then we got hype about Morrigans plans and that HoF&Hawke dissapeared together... only to get anticlimatic "Yea I had this plan but I dropped it" and that whole HoF&Hawke dissapearance was "coincidence". I mean seriously? The fact that Bioware doesn't know what they're doing also shows in constant atmosphere change(From Dark Fantasy theme with darker lightning to action RPG and finally to boring open world where you are forced to do fetch quest to proceed Main Questline), constant redesigns (Elves got redesigned like 3rd time in DAI; shall we give them very long eyebrows in DA4?   ), etc... Game is just a giant mess. Thats the best way to describe it.

 

 

Now then, back to how old protagonists should be handled. As I said before current system doesn't work and it also has too deep roots for any giant change. So this is in my opinion how things should proceed:

-Change current system so that we can get to play old protagonists in future games with multiple protagonist running around. (Example: Game1-PC1, Game2-PC2, Game3-PC1, Game4-PC3,...)

-Hawke has been so messed around with that s/he can be NPC from now on (Since you clearly want "bigger world feel")

-HoF can be protagonist while also covering the fact that s/he may be dead by making him/her a background choice. Should you not choose HoF as background s/hes gonna die unless you made US in which case s/hes dead anyway. If you choose HoF as background then he basically becomes [Insert DA4 protag name here] and everyone now calls him with his/her new title meaning whole HoF thing can be written out of plot.

-Inqusitior... Lol don't get me started on this one.

 

 

Anyways this is all I wanted to share. Peace.

[thats1evildude]

This seems to be a hot topic right now. Anyway, I don't mind playing new protagonists each game. It makes perfect sense to me.

There's only so far you can progress with a character; if they're already equipped with the Armor, Helmet, Sword and Underoos of Legendary Heroes and are at the point where the Terrible High-Level Monsters have become a snore, where else do you take them? Answer: you knock them back to Level 1 and wearing a potato sack, having lost all the equipment and experience they accumulated last game. And you have to invent a reason for said bringing your Epic Hero down to ordinary, like they died or their foot fell asleep for an extended period.

But if you have to contrive reasons for dropping your character down to a rookie, then what's the point of continuing with a character? It was bad enough seeing Hawke as a Level 12 pushover in DAI.

Also, playing with a new protagonist offers new roleplaying opportunities and new romance options. I liked my Trevelyan Inquisitor, but I'd like to maybe RP someone lowborn for the new game.

[Heimdall]

I much prefer the new protagonist route.

[panamakira]

I honestly agree in a way. I like having the opportunity to create a brand new character every game, with different goals, backstory and challenges. But at the same time it's getting ridiculous that none of our heroes stories: the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor are technically over. 

 

Obviously it depends how you headcanon your characters' story but I feel like there are still so many loose ends that have been piling up since Origins. With Inquisiton I mean that list just got bigger and the fact that we're most likely going to Tevinter? Don't get me wrong I'm ready to party with Dorian in Minrathos but I feel like we're going to have more questions again.

 

We'll see I think the Inquisitor overall was well received and it would be awesome to play as someone from Tevinter.

[Smudjygirl]

I'm middle ground on this particular idea. I look forward to a new adventure with new friends in new games. But i do feel that some stories are rushed becasue of the new protags.

 

I will never understand why people want the HoF back so badly. Their story was finished regardless of what happened at the end, and any loose ends were tied up. Hawke's story ended on a cliff hanger, but Hawke not being the protag in Inquisition made sense. After the final DLC, i'm happy to say farewell to my Inquisitor though i feel she should have a presence. By the time their story's are done, i do feel they're complete. It's mostly my adoration of my PC and companions that makes me want to see them again. And them dissapprearing was fine. The HoF is off on Warden business (or personal, at first) and Hawke had to get away as they thought an Exalted March was on the way. If the Inquisitor wanders off, i'll be annoyed. Especially since there would be no need for it.

 

I wouldn't want to play as all of them, that can really mess up the narrative if not handled well.

 

And game designs change all the time. They wanted elves to look distinct. DAO they were just smaller humans. DA2 tried something different, but it wasn;t well recieved. DAI had good elf designs in my opinion.

 

People wanted DAI to be like SKyrim, and they got it. A game far removed from story, with lots of quests that are of no benefit what so ever. Maybe people should be careful what the wish for.

[Brockololly]

I'm fine with having a new main protagonist every game but I think BioWare is missing a huge opportunity.

I think BioWare is completely missing a huge and awesome opportunity to bring back old PC's as playable PC's should the story call for it. Basically treat them just like you had with Ciri in The Witcher. When the story calls for it, have the old PC playable for a short stretch of story to give a different POV on the overarching story. If that's with the Inquisitor or Hawke or the Warden, great.

Like, even if my Inquisitor smashing Solas' egghead against a rock in DA4, I'd want my Inquisitor somehow involved in a major way since he is the one guy with the closest emotional ties to Solas. Same way that I'd want to play as my Hero of Ferelden that romanced Morrigan if she gets up to major plot stuff in the future. Or Hawke if one of his companions became plot relevant. Doesn't have to be for any huge stretch of time but it would be far better to experience that stuff through one of your old PC's that has some emotional connection to those continuing characters than through some new PC that has no ties to continuing characters like Solas or Morrigan.


If BioWare did a clean break, Elder Scrolls style, between games, I'd be totally ok with a new PC every time out. But so long as they keep bringing back old companions and old love interests without the corresponding PC those companions are most closely tied to, its going to be an ongoing issue for me.

[thats1evildude]

I honestly agree in a way. I like having the opportunity to create a brand new character every game, with different goals, backstory and challenges. But at the same time it's getting ridiculous that none of our heroes stories: the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor are technically over.

 

They are if you killed them. Which quite a few people did.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

God, now we're going to have a billion "Bring Inquisitor back!!!11!" threads like we do with Warden and Hawke.

[phimseto]

You may be in luck. I got left with the distinct impression that the next game will have a returning protagonist or even protagonists. I wouldn't be surprised if you play through parts of the game as different heroes (Hawke in Weisshaupt, Inquisitor in Tevinter). 

 

I would be surprised and even a little disappointed if you don't play as the Inquisitor. If the set-up for the sequel is as described, it really has to come down to the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas, no? Would you really want some new/other hero to have that culminating confrontation?

[Brockololly]

If you have to contrive reasons for dropping the legendary hero down to rookie, then what's the point of continuing with a character?

See I don't care at all if I get to grind through combat with the Inquisitor or the Hero of Ferelden or Hawke again. The point of bringing them back in some playable role would be so that they could continue to be part of the overarching story of the Dragon Age world and not conveniently absent when you'd think the story would involve them.

BioWare keeps saying that Dragon Age is all about the world and not any one character. But the reason you're caring at all about the world of DA is because of the characters and you care about certain characters as you interact with them through specific Player Characters. I don't know that BioWare really gets that.

If the set-up for the sequel is as described, it really has to come down to the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas, no? Would you really want some new/other hero to have that culminating confrontation?

Exactly!

Its about the relationships you create between the Player Character (whether that's the Inquisitor, or Hawke or the Warden) and the various NPCs. While it might be interesting to see some new PC interact with Solas, it would be lacking that personal history your Inquisitor has developed with them. Sort of the same as what you had in Inquisition with Morrigan. You were just interacting with her in a kind of flat, generic fashion since your Inquisitor had no history with her. Yet if your Warden had met back up with her, it would have felt like a far more personal interaction than anything you got between her and the Inquisitor.

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't like having new protagonists each game, for many reasons, but here are the main ones:

 

1. Character-whiplash. It's jarring, disappointing, and unsatisfying to build up your character for an entire game, as well as their relationships to their companions, then just when you get to know everyone, have them taken away and replaced with a new cast and a new character to try to shape from scratch, knowing you probably won't develop them as much as you'd like to since their story will end in the same game.

 

2. It's worse for developing the universe. A lot of people cite the "Thedas is the protagonist" argument during this debate, but in my opinion, having the same protagonist and most of the same cast across multiple games allows the world to actually come to the forefront, not the other way around. If you have to build a new character and their relationships each game, a lot of the focus has to be on that, not the world in general. I found in Mass Effect, I could appreciate the evolving galaxy just fine, and probably more, because Shepard didn't need to be built-up each game. Not only that, but I get sick of my character knowing progressively less and less compared to the player. I don't want to ask all of these questions I should know the answers to.

 

3. And obviously this will avoid the problems of unsatisfying character returns, whether that be for ex-protagonists or old companions you just wish you could talk to with those ex-protagonists. I want to talk to Alistair as the Warden. I want to hang out with Varric as Hawke. I want to confront Solas as the Inquisitor. Otherwise, so much impact is lost.

 

4. It's easier for the devs. They seem to tire quickly of people missing their characters and wanting them to appear again, but this time, they can't possibly be surprised when people want the Inquisitor to show up again, and people can't be blamed for it, I don't think.

 

And now with what Trespasser has set up, I want the Inquisitor to return more than ever. If I've ever seen a sequel-hook, that would be it. I feel like so much would be lost if we don't get to play this next arc as them.

[LightningPoodle]

Having a new protagonist has its benefits. You get to tell a completely new, original story. You get to develop even more of the world you are creating by starting again, building it from the ground up again. Dragon Age, in every title including Awakening, it added something completely new to the world in which it is set. You learn new things from multiple perspectives. The universe is more realised when you can develop every front simultaneously. It feels larger. The characters feel more realistic because their opinions, their qualities, their ambitions... they reflect everything else in the world.

 

Having the same character across multiple titles also has it's benefits. You can feel more connected to the characters that make several appearances. You can really get in to what motivates them, and how their attitudes change as the titles continue to go on. This was clear in Mass Effect with characters like Garrus. The story that gets told is also more personal. You follow the same character around, you see the world laid out in front of you through their eyes. Again, with Mass Effect, the genophage is one example where we have a more personal opinion on the matter. We don't see the genophage from the salarian or the turian perspective, but from a human perspective. We can envision ourselves in that world.

 

Both work well for their own separate reasons. Some things will overlap, but you can maximise what you want to tell by choosing either one or the other. The personal touch can still be found in games like Dragon Age, but it's more impactful when you have a character you've grown to love over a longer period of time. You can still get different perspectives in games that follow the same character, but again, it's more impactful when you know more about the situation, learned from two or more characters. (If we got to experience the genophage from a Salarian perspective, our personal opinion may have changed on whether or not curing it is a good or bad idea).

[whiteravenxi]

Would you really want some new/other hero to have that culminating confrontation?

Exactly. You've hit it on the head sir. All of this dlc set up a conflict of inquisitor versus Solas. It would be so stupid to throw that away at the expense of some new kid and I'd feel so robbed if my Inq shows up as an NPC. No matter how good they are with her, she won't feel right because I'm not playing as her.

The impact between characters, this entire game, would have been for nothing.

[BansheeOwnage]

God, now we're going to have a billion "Bring Inquisitor back!!!11!" threads like we do with Warden and Hawke.

Of course we are, and that's Bioware's own fault for setting up the sequel like they did. I expected Quizzy to have to die, so they wouldn't have to deal with that, but instead they chose the complete opposite: You have to live, and you have to launch an offensive against Solas. Why wouldn't people want them to return with that ending?

 

You may be in luck. I got left with the distinct impression that the next game will have a returning protagonist or even protagonists. I wouldn't be surprised if you play through parts of the game as different heroes (Hawke in Weisshaupt, Inquisitor in Tevinter). 

 

I would be surprised and even a little disappointed if you don't play as the Inquisitor. If the set-up for the sequel is as described, it really has to come down to the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas, no? Would you really want some new/other hero to have that culminating confrontation?

Exactly. Confronting Solas would be very unsatisfying with anyone other than the Inquisitor, comparatively anyway. The story is personal now, whether you want to kill him or save him, especially if you romanced him. So I hope Bioware has changed their mind and brings back the Inquisitor one more time, especially if the next game is the last. And yes, Bioware has changed their mind, many, many times. People shouldn't take what they say so seriously. (It would also mean they wouldn't have to find another 4 voice actors to play the new protagonist, since they set a new standard for themselves)

[panamakira]

They are if you killed them. Which quite a few people did.

Well that's what I mean. They have so many different outcomes for the different characters that they're not connecting it to the world as a whole. If all your characters are alive and the world is going to be destroyed, are they really going to say, "Well, I already did my share, it the world ends oh well, I'm vacationing..."

 

If your characters are dead, that's cool but in my world state a lot of things are not making much sense. 

 

I don't know it's a mixed bag at the moment.

[Starwingz]

This seems to be a hot topic right now. Anyway, I don't mind playing new protagonists each game. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

There's only so far you can progress with a character; if they're already equipped with the Armor, Helmet, Sword and Underoos of Legendary Heroes and are at the point where the Terrible High-Level Monsters have become a snore, where else do you take them? Answer: you start them out at Level 1 wearing a potato sack, having lost all the equipment and experience they accumulated last game.

 

If you have to contrive reasons for dropping the legendary hero down to rookie, then what's the point of continuing with a character?

 

Also, playing with a new protagonist offers new roleplaying opportunities and new romance options. I liked my Trevelyan Inquisitor, but I'd like to maybe RP someone lowborn for the new game.

 

That didn't stop Level 1 Anders/Varric from gameplay standpoint. But my main problem here is how old protagonists are dealt with. I had this massive Deja Vu when Inquisitor said theyll handle Solas with some unknown people in future (HoF/Hawke dissapearance teasing and then... anticlimatic coincidence) along with the fact that Solas-Inquisitor relationship mirrors Warden-Morrigan one. Remember what a pain in the ass was to act like you dont know her (Ultra bonus points if she was DAO romance and had Kieran). And now we will probably be put into new protagonist role again which will again be probably totally forgotten in possible DA5 same way like HoF or screwed like Hawke. Foundation for this just game just isnt meant for new protags every game, thats the point of this thread.

[AresKeith]

Of course we are, and that's Bioware's own fault for setting up the sequel like they did. I expected Quizzy to have to die, so they wouldn't have to deal with that, but instead the chose the complete opposite: You have to live, and you have to launch an offensive against Solas. Why wouldn't people want them to return with that ending?

 

That isn't really Bioware's fault either, and even with the Inquisitor launching an offensive against Solas doesn't really guarantee that they'll still be the protagonist  

[thats1evildude]

I would note as well that having new protagonists each game makes it easier for new people to jump into the series. One of the reasons I don't play The Witcher 3 is that i never played Witcher 1 or 2 and have no idea who any of the characters are.

 

That didn't stop Level 1 Anders/Varric from gameplay standpoint.

 

Yeah, I didn't care for that. What happened to all those upgrades for Bianca, Varric?

[Starwingz]

God, now we're going to have a billion "Bring Inquisitor back!!!11!" threads like we do with Warden and Hawke.

 

This thread is about the FACT that new protagonists dont work with current system. If you would read whole thing you would see how I suggested HoF to be removed from plot entirely without resorting to stupid "lol he had heart attack and died" or "lol lets completely leave him out even though he is high ranked Warden and there is big **** going on with Wardens at Weisshaupt".

[Ryzaki]

If BioWare did a clean break, Elder Scrolls style, between games, I'd be totally ok with a new PC every time out. But so long as they keep bringing back old companions and old love interests without the corresponding PC those companions are most closely tied to, its going to be an ongoing issue for me.

 

This is where I stand. If they were doing clean breaks and not insisting on bringing back the same few people I'd be okay with new protags but as it is we have to get introduced to the same people over and over again. This is dumb. Give us a completely new cast or reuse the protag. This half breed crap is annoying and the story suffers.

[Super Drone]

I want a new Protagonist because I don't particularly like the current protagonist. The Inquisitor is flat and boring. I want a new character with new companions, new LIs, new everything.

[Smudjygirl]

This thread is about the FACT that new protagonists dont work with current system. If you would read whole thing you would see how I suggested HoF to be removed from plot entirely without resorting to stupid "lol he had heart attack and died" or "lol lets completely leave him out even though he is high ranked Warden and there is big **** going on with Wardens at Weisshaupt".

 

I actually felt them saying "they're off on Warden business" worked well. More believeable than "GONE!!!". Especially since we're not Grey Wardens, we don't need to be in contact with them. We've known since the first game the Wardens love their privacy + secrets.

[Wulfram]

Different protagonists could work with genuinely seperate stories. Honestly DA2 was fine mostly for this, only the Warden namedrop at the end was really a problem - well that, and people jusdt not being keen on Hawke. But Bioware seem to be looking for greater connection between games.

I mean, the Warden's story being done is fine, until you have a story that potentially deeply concerns his kingdom, his order, his wife, his girlfriend, the mother of his child and his child. Admittedly that extreme requires an interesting personal life, but a good chunk of wardens will have at least two of those going on. Meanwhile you have two stories that going on that are kind of Hawke's fault (mage v templar and corypheus), but Hawke gets shuffled off to a side quest that they've likely got barely any connection to - and the main possible connection (Sibling) is largely ignored.

I was hopeful that the major shift in location would limit the issue, but the Trespasser ending kinda screwed with that.

[renfrees]

If we had an old cast in each game we wouldn't have met characters like Varric, Isabela, Cassandra, Dorian, etc. You think it's difficult to say goodbye to familiar faces, but by the time the new game rolls out most of you will have new faves.

[Sylvianus]

God, now we're going to have a billion "Bring Inquisitor back!!!11!" threads like we do with Warden and Hawke.

 

To be honest I was ready to let my inquisitor go, definitely retired with Josephine in Antiva, but then Bioware decided that ( even if the inquisition is disbanded ), he is actively working against Solas, ready for a new war against the evil, with old companions, even calling for new ones and new allies, and planning to go to Tevinter, where obviously the next game is going to happen. His goal being again to save the world from utter destruction.

 

So don't be really surprised if a few people would like the next game with the inquisitor as the returning protagonist. Especially when Solas, ' the bad guy ' is strongly tied to the inquisitor ( let alone those who romanced him ), there is already a story between them, and no one knows him better than the inquisitor, who lost his hand after the end of their last meeting.The inquisitor has already experimented a first war, a war that happened because of Solas, he is now a veteran, that would be actually very interesting if for once in dragon age, we aren't a newbie. However we lost our combat skills, we lost our power, linked to the fade, so we could start again level 1. It could work. 

 

Also the fact that you can choose between " I want to kill him or convince him " also doesn't help to make me think that it would be better to have a new random tevinter hero that came out from nowhere for the sequel. That would be better if we could deal with Solas as the inquisitor, or at least with his point of view.

 

People say that the inquisitor can't be the hero because of his arm lost, but it can be replaced ( thanks to Dagna ), and the inquisitor can learn to fight with a new one with the years to come. Yes, he said his adventure days were over... one day, at one point, doesn't mean that it is what it would necessarily happen. I said and believed many things some days in my life but there were circonstances and nothing happened as I thought it would happen. So everything is possible. If Bioware wanted to take the inquisitor again, that could be totally justified, and that could be awesome. I'd be glad to welcome again my inquisitor in a new form in DA4 as the protagonist, that wouldn't be unreasonable in my opinion. 

 

But now, we'll see how it is going to happen, they surely have plans. If we have a new protagonist, I'm however okay with that, but I hope that they don't mess with the inquisitor, giving him a pitiful role, because he totally could have a closure after all and this isn't what happened. It's clear that he has agressive plans against Solas.

 

Otherwise, i agree that a protagonist every game without anything being resolved for anyone of them ( hof, hawk, inqusitor ) is kinda dangerous.