1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Arshei]

If i wanted to play the same character every game I'm go to Witcher.

[zeypher]

If i wanted to play the same character every game I'm go to Witcher.

Ah yes hate on the witcher, why not mention biowares own trilogy of shepard IE Mass effect.

[whiteravenxi]

I just want to be clear. I'm not against the idea of having a new protagonist each game. I don't think anyone is really. As a concept that is fine. In execution it's always been either terrible, sloppy, or confusing because the story threads are never fully closed so much as they as discarded, leaving us to form head canons to fill the gaping holes as to why X hero would not take the fore in the upcoming conflict.

If we get a new protagonist I don't want ties to the previous game. It's always poorly done. Look it's Allistair but we don't know him! How cool! Oh wait. No it isn't. Why is he here. Where's the HoF.

Hawke and the Warden mysteriously disappeared only to have it be no big deal.

No. I'm done. Either wrap up Solas in an expansion and then start DA4 fresh or put the Inquisitor in DA4 as the PC. My hero never said her adventuring days were over. She is not done. My ending of trespasser was 100% her gearing up for the real battle to come.

Cameos like the OP said are mediocre at best and lore damaging on average.

[leadintea]

Different protagonists could work with genuinely seperate stories. Honestly DA2 was fine mostly for this, only the Warden namedrop at the end was really a problem - well that, and people jusdt not being keen on Hawke. But Bioware seem to be looking for greater connection between games.

I mean, the Warden's story being done is fine, until you have a story that potentially deeply concerns his kingdom, his order, his wife, his girlfriend, the mother of his child and his child. Admittedly that extreme requires an interesting personal life, but a good chunk of wardens will have at least two of those going on. Meanwhile you have two stories that going on that are kind of Hawke's fault (mage v templar and corypheus), but Hawke gets shuffled off to a side quest that they've likely got barely any connection to - and the main possible connection (Sibling) is largely ignored.

I was hopeful that the major shift in location would limit the issue, but the Trespasser ending kinda screwed with that.

 

Yup. Wholeheartedly agree. I'd love for the DA series to stick with its 'new protagonist a game' thing, but every single protagonist's storyline seems to be bleeding into each other's and it just makes no sense for main characters who have no personal ties to these events to take center stage and deal with these problems. I mean, the main character for DA4 already seems like they're going to be tied to the Inquisition, to Dorian, and to Solas' storyline, which could all be dealt with by the Inquisitor, who's already involved heavily with this storyline (and thinking back, the Inquisitor could easily have been replaced with Hawke). Honestly, it no longer feels like every game is supposed to be part of Thedas' storyline, but rather seems to be all about the Elven gods. I'd have loved if every DA game was a vignette that told some part of Thedas' story, with a final game bringing all the stories together, but as it is, Bioware could easily stick with the Inquisitor and have them be the main character of the series, since the story they're writing is already heavily tied to them.

[fizzypop]

I don't mind new protagonists as others have said it gives me a chance to create a world full of my characters. I love that I have played very strong female characters and such the heroes of my main world are all female (and all mages because I like the underdog). I enjoy that. I don't mind that Hawke acted a little out of character. Now that I realize it was tied to the approval of anders actions I changed that so that my Hawke acted more indifferent. My Hawke saw both sides and understood why people feared mages, but still believed in mage freedom. It wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.

I think it adds a little flare too because we can see that history can distort the actual facts. We know the actual facts because we played those characters, but you have to understand that when you are seeing Hawke you are seeing her through the quizzy's eyes not your own. So your quizzy's perception is going to be different than the perception you saw when you played DA2. As we all know DA2 you aren't even really playing Hawke you are playing Varric's story of Hawke. Not exactly the same thing. Do you see what I'm saying? I try to think of it as playing heroes of history where history didn't always get everything right, but it spun a good story.

[Realmzmaster]

Having the Inquisitor (IMHO) as PC would be a mistake for the very reason the Inquisitor states in the ending scenes. Solas knows all about the Inquisitor and the companions. Solas has intimate knowledge (who they are, what are their abilities and how they work). The Inquisitor can play a major role as an NPC, but the person to bring Solas down should be someone he does not suspect or expect.

 

I am all for a new protagonist.  As far as companions returning I have no problem or all new companions would equally be fine. Returning characters provide continuity without have to keep the protagonist the same.  All new companions from a different part of the world (like Tevinter) would also be grand since that avoids the problem of nerfing returning characters back to level one.

 

The major player in the DA universe to me is Thedas

[dsl08002]

Hi,
I dont have stamina and much time to write on the boards often but there is thing thats been really bothering me and has been talked to death: DA Protagonists (HoF, Hawke, Quizzy). No matter how you look at it will always, ALWAYS end up being a disaster when you move into EVERY new DA game with new protagonist since you will have two options of dealing with it:
 
 
1.) Leave them completely out of the game and never see them again (HoF style) which is extremely lame and is a giant downer that kills mood. ("Oh look big stuff is going on with Grey Wardens and mystery of Archdemons.... oh and there is no mention of HoF despite being one of biggest figure with Wardens!" kind of thing).
 
OR
 
2.) Include them into the game (Which would happen in other games but this is RPG) and have 95% chance to screw up by making them act out of character (Hawke style; blood magic hater who romanced/befriended blood mage and supported her blood magic use(LOL!)) which will make people pissed off or in lucky cases indifferent.
 
 
You don't need to be genius to realize that there is no win-win with system that is currently used and that this problem will only get worse with every completely new protagonist showing up and old protagonists mysteriously evading him, while their 30+ LIs show up alone and give lame generic "I will join him soon." lines with other people giving boring "Yea I knew him." line. People complain which one of these options should be used but they never think out of the box and heres where you see that problem lies in the foundation of the game itself. Best way to describe this is that you are standing in a fire and are protecting yourself from being burned instead of walking out of freaking fire! Current foundation of the game just doesn't work with new protagonists. New protagonists in every new RPG game that are not canonized would work best if there wasn't ANY CONNECTION TO PAST GAMES...SIMPLY SAID BRAND NEW CAST. Elder Scrolls does this by putting 250+ years betwen each year where almost everyone died. Looking back at DA its just painful running around with different protagonist and RP like I dont know familiar faces. Everytime I did that I was thinking to myself how much better conversation would be if I was talking through my old protagonist. New protagonists wouldve worked far better if there was brand new cast set 100+ years after DAO.
 
 
But this shaky foundation doesn't affect only protagonists, it also affects the whole game series. When I played from DAO and DAI I had this constant feeling that Bioware doesn't know what its doing or where this series is headed. DAO was nice game but after that there is this overwhelming feeling that they didnt know how to continue series and just decided to make DA2 with new protagonist Hawke without thinking over it for a moment. Its like Bioware said "Yes that is so cool, lets implant this!" without thinking how it affects the future. They decide to bring US HoF back in Awakening with weak excuse claiming he somehow survived but then they again change their mind and decide that HoF was dead whole time. Then we got hype about Morrigans plans and that HoF&Hawke dissapeared together... only to get anticlimatic "Yea I had this plan but I dropped it" and that whole HoF&Hawke dissapearance was "coincidence". I mean seriously? The fact that Bioware doesn't know what they're doing also shows in constant atmosphere change(From Dark Fantasy theme with darker lightning to action RPG and finally to boring open world where you are forced to do fetch quest to proceed Main Questline), constant redesigns (Elves got redesigned like 3rd time in DAI; shall we give them very long eyebrows in DA4?   ), etc... Game is just a giant mess. Thats the best way to describe it.
 
 
Now then, back to how old protagonists should be handled. As I said before current system doesn't work and it also has too deep roots for any giant change. So this is in my opinion how things should proceed:
-Change current system so that we can get to play old protagonists in future games with multiple protagonist running around. (Example: Game1-PC1, Game2-PC2, Game3-PC1, Game4-PC3,...)
-Hawke has been so messed around with that s/he can be NPC from now on (Since you clearly want "bigger world feel")
-HoF can be protagonist while also covering the fact that s/he may be dead by making him/her a background choice. Should you not choose HoF as background s/hes gonna die unless you made US in which case s/hes dead anyway. If you choose HoF as background then he basically becomes [Insert DA4 protag name here] and everyone now calls him with his/her new title meaning whole HoF thing can be written out of plot.
-Inqusitior... Lol don't get me started on this one.
 
 
Anyways this is all I wanted to share. Peace.

Thank you very much you have said everything that i have thought this last year.
I also believe that having a new protaganist evey single game will get messy and out of controlled, and i really dont like the alienation and disconnection youll get when facing your past choices or characters.

I always feel bursting out: "I ALREADY KNOW THIS AND YOU WHY DO YOU HAVE TO REPEAT IT FOR ME EVERY SINGLE TIME" i have never much cared about the inquisitor, my favorite is the warden however as the case is now: no new protaganist focus on the ones we already have. Which is what i hoped for in Prelude of DAI, that bioware would focus on hawke/warden like it was in TW3 and halo series arbiter/master chief.

[caradoc2000]

Well, there is always fanfic for those who wish to unravel their Inky's happily-(n)ever-after.

[dsl08002]

But one thing that is still puzzling is the facebook vote regarding characters in DA, who you would like to play as: it was a easy victory as the warden as PC.

You would think that this would tell BIOWARE something.

[Wulfram]

To be more positive, them taking a direct read on Quizzies intentions at the end may help them. That should allow them to make the inquisitor more of an active participant in the story, whether on or offscreen.

The big issue with writing anything for an ex-PC is that you don't really know what they're like. So you're forced to play it very conservative and bland to avoid going against character. But since the player made the choice, Bioware have some leeway to run with it.

They did ask the Warden their plans of course, but unfortunately they were ignored. Perhaps because they were impractically broad in possibilities, while Trespasser narrowed it down quite heavily.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

This thread is about the FACT that new protagonists dont work with current system. If you would read whole thing you would see how I suggested HoF to be removed from plot entirely without resorting to stupid "lol he had heart attack and died" or "lol lets completely leave him out even though he is high ranked Warden and there is big **** going on with Wardens at Weisshaupt".

 

If they bring back the PC they'll have to change characters or retcon things. Everytime a character comes back, we get a billion threads complaining about them.

 

Here are some problems I instantly had with Shepard from the ME series:

 

My Shepard was xenophobic in ME1, why is he suddenly all buddy-buddy with Garrus, Tali and Liara in ME2?

I told Garrus to join the Spectre program, why did Bioware give a half-ass reason to retcon that and bring him back?

I choose Anderson to be the councillor, why is Udina suddenly the Council?

I made a pro-human Council in ME1, why did Bioware suddenly forget that?

My Shepard was Athiest in ME1/2, why is he suddenly talking about Mordin going to the afterlife in ME3?

 

It's not just the ME series though. I played a racist City Elf who despises human, suddenly he's a noble in Awakening and lecturing Velanna about being a bigot despite me wanting to agree with her in that play through. Or how about the Warden PC who decided to run off from the organization by the end of DAO suddenly being forced to become Warden Commander? My Hawke is a blood mage, why the hell is he so anti-blood mage and anti-Warden this time around?

 

I could go on and on. Bringing them back just leads to retcons and character assassinations just so Bioware can write the story because they realise they can't follow up on the choices since they're so varied. Different protagonist is the easy way to keep the story flowing without hundreds of retcons.

 

Besides, the Inquisitor has one hand and I seriously doubt Bioware is going to make a whole character model and unique animations just so Inq can run around with some mechnical hand or one-hand fights while the rest of your companion still get two hands to use. The Inquisitor even says "My adventuring days are over", Bioware put that in to hint he's not gonna be the hero of DA4.

[dsl08002]

If they bring back the PC they'll have to change characters or retcon things. Everytime a character comes back, we get a billion threads complaining about them.
 
Here are some problems I instantly had with Shepard from the ME series:
 
My Shepard was xenophobic in ME1, why is he suddenly all buddy-buddy with Garrus, Tali and Liara in ME2?
I told Garrus to join the Spectre program, why did Bioware give a half-ass reason to retcon that and bring him back?
I choose Anderson to be the councillor, why is Udina suddenly the Council?
I made a pro-human Council in ME1, why did Bioware suddenly forget that?
My Shepard was Athiest in ME1/2, why is he suddenly talking about Mordin going to the afterlife in ME3?
 
It's not just the ME series though. I played a racist City Elf who despises human, suddenly he's a noble in Awakening and lecturing Velanna about being a bigot despite me wanting to agree with her in that play through. Or how about the Warden PC who decided to run off from the organization by the end of DAO suddenly being forced to become Warden Commander?
 
I could go on and on. Bringing them back just leads to retcons and character assassinations just so Bioware can write the story because they realise they can't follow up on the choices since they're so varied. Different protagonist is the easy way to keep the story flowing without hundreds of retcons.

If that were the case then the best would be to ignore the your choices matter and characters that you have met before, no ties whatsoever to the previous games and no cameos.

No one wants to sit their going on: i already know this, i already know you, your background why are you repeating it to me again.etc etc.

Like in this situation: it wont be the inquisitor that stops solas, it will be the new pc. Everyone knows that this will happen.

If i would make a decision would i rather face it myself or through the eyes of my brother. You pick the first option

Why should someone else clean up my mess, like it was in DAI hawke/corypheus

[0rangekun]

I'd have no problem with playing as a new protagonist every time if it meant a whole new cast every time. I realize that they made up excuses and were like "we can make up whatever canon we want in a game where we emphasize player choice, thus demeaning every decision you make", but Leliana is dead in my mind. I don't like the character, I don't like the voice actor, and I don't like seeing her in every game completely regardless of my actions in previous titles. She comes across as a lunatic, which wouldn't be such an issue if it were the writers' intention that she be this psychotic religious zealot, but that's clearly not what they intend for her.

 

Having the same protagonist while bringing back various characters greatly defeats the enjoyment of seeing those characters return. Even if I liked Leliana (I like Varric, for example), it's largely dissatisfying to see the character again when they're new to my character's story. Give me some camaraderie and natural, organic friendships. That's half of what makes a series so enjoyable - you have much more time to expand on character relationships. My Herald might get along great with Varric, but it won't ever come close to the level of bromance Hawke had with him.

 

tl;dr New protagonist? New cast, with cameos of old characters at most.

[thats1evildude]

This thread is about the FACT that new protagonists dont work with current system. If you would read whole thing you would see how I suggested HoF to be removed from plot entirely without resorting to stupid "lol he had heart attack and died" or "lol lets completely leave him out even though he is high ranked Warden and there is big **** going on with Wardens at Weisshaupt".

 

Not really a fact, more your opinion. Which I disagree with.

[Linkenski]

OP has a Greta point. The character driven approach Bioware has been taking just doesn't work with their periodic saga

[Realmzmaster]

But one thing that is still puzzling is the facebook vote regarding characters in DA, who you would like to play as: it was a easy victory as the warden as PC.

You would think that this would tell BIOWARE something.

 

Which means very little unless that vote included everyone who plays DA. Many people do not bother to vote or are not concerned with it. Also all the players of the game may not be on Facebook.

[Ariella]

Not really a fact, more your opinion. Which I disagree with.

Thank you.

[dsl08002]

I would note as well that having new protagonists each game makes it easier for new people to jump into the series. One of the reasons I don't play The Witcher 3 is that i never played Witcher 1 or 2 and have no idea who any of the characters are.
 

 
Yeah, I didn't care for that. What happened to all those upgrades for Bianca, Varric?

So tell people if you want to know whats going go back to the beginning, dont be lazy and jump right to the end.

You dont start reading, or watching series at the end season, or last film in a triology

[Smudjygirl]

So tell people if you want to know whats going go back to the beginning, dont be lazy and jump right to the end.

You dont start reading, or watching series at the end season, or last film in a triology

 

Star wars started at the end and ended at the start

[dsl08002]

Which means very little unless that vote included everyone who plays DA. Many people do not bother to vote or are not concerned with it. Also all the players of the game may not be on Facebook.

Doesnt mean you ignore it altogether

[dsl08002]

Star wars started at the end and ended at the start

You have to take that up with steven speilberg and lucas.

Here we talk about a generality

[Ariella]

Star wars started at the end and ended at the start

Only because Lucas didn't think he'd get to do more than one. Star Wars was a huge risk, and could have flopped big time.

[BansheeOwnage]

That isn't really Bioware's fault either, and even with the Inquisitor launching an offensive against Solas doesn't really guarantee that they'll still be the protagonist  

It doesn't guarantee it, no, but it makes wanting the Inquisitor to return very understandable, and if Bioware didn't see that coming, I'd be surprised.

 

I was hopeful that the major shift in location would limit the issue, but the Trespasser ending kinda screwed with that.

Right, I forgot to say that. People can no longer say "The Inquisition is in the south, so it can do stuff there while our new hero is in the north." Nope, now the Inquisition is heading to Tevinter. Actually, if the devs say that's a hint (meaning answer) to where the next game will be set, doesn't that imply the Inquisition will at least be at the centre of things still? Because if it's not, where the Inquisition goes wouldn't matter, so that wouldn't be a hint at all.

 

If we had an old cast in each game we wouldn't have met characters like Varric, Isabela, Cassandra, Dorian, etc. You think it's difficult to say goodbye to familiar faces, but by the time the new game rolls out most of you will have new faves.

I don't think anyone said we should have the exact same cast every game. They could do it like ME, where you had new and old characters. It's not mutually exclusive.

[Daerog]

Make the Inquisitor the employer/mentor/recruiter/whatever to the next protagonist.

 

Done.

 

Duncan sets up the Warden. Flemeth sets up Hawke. Cassandra and Leliana (with Hawke avoiding people playing a role) set up the Inquisitor.

 

Inquisitor does background stuff (like all the Inquisition agents do with the war against Cory), speaks with the protagonist, comes in when having to face Solas, but leaves the Qunari threat to the protagonist.

 

Ending to Solas' arc guess: Either dies or just ascends to the Fade to watch over people's dreams (possibly with an elf inquisitor).

 

 

I do like the idea of the playable character changing depending on the situation, kind of like *While Hero of Tevinter is dealing with a Qunari threat, Hawke/Warden/other-warden and/or Inquisitor deals with some super powerful foe that the HoT can not handle at this point.*

[thats1evildude]

But one thing that is still puzzling is the facebook vote regarding characters in DA, who you would like to play as: it was a easy victory as the warden as PC.

 

Of course people want to play as the Warden again. They have this image of a Level Gazillion Juggernaut with fifty specializations who can beat Archdemons by flicking them lightly with their fingers. They think that DA4 will be the Alistar/Leliana/Zevran/Morrigan romance special with a "save the world" sidequest.

 

They don't consider that they'll start out as a Level 1 mook wielding a soup ladle and wearing a towel, with no previous LI in tow. They think they'll get Goku from DragonBall Z when actually they'll get Yamcha the Desert Bandit.