I think that an "I want them back for Solas's story" option is needed. That's the bigger opinion, rather than a simple "yes" or "no" for them being the protag of another game.
. We should start a new thread for voting.
I agree. I want my quizzy back for Solas story too. That poll wasn't a serious one
If you do it, i'll be the first to vote 
That’s not okay. So let’s pretend Solas isn’t central to the next game, at all. That’s weird. He’s somewhere preparing to try his new fancy veil breaking plan. Even if only like a year passed, doubtful, we know there is some small or large partial Inquisition force working. So time passed even in the epilogue. It’s not like I can compute a story that doesn’t deal with trying to stop him from letting the everyone die as sacrifice. So we never hear from them again, except on a war table mission or a brief cameo. I’m sorry but that is so not closure. I don’t recall feeling like the other games left me with a burning ache of “But the world is in jeopardy! Come on! Let’s go find them! Come along, Pond!”Simply put, are we to expect DA4 to ignore and never bring up this huge thing happening? If we encountered Solas in any form, would we be expected to play like we had no clue who he is, or at the very least, had no motive to try and stop him without killing him (for us that made that our choice) I can see some way to make this happen. It would have to be a character with a deep personal investment in the welfare of Thedas, or Elves specifically. Someone who could have compassion for him, and understanding of what it took our Inquisitor a freaking long time to discover. And he still doesn’t tell you 1/100th of what we need to know, and admits he doesn’t. I’m aware not all of the Inquisitors loved Solas, or liked. But still it’s personal to be betrayed by someone you spent time with.Here’s my crazy option.I’m honestly curious if no one would be bothered if we ignored the looming threat, because they didn’t acknowledge it in the next game. Which makes 0 sense to me! /end rant
This. I see many people saying that the next game won't focus on Solas and his plans to end the world as we know it. How can you drop something like that in Trespasser and pretend it never happened in the new game? I don't know how I feel about the Inquisitor coming back as a NPC. If it is going to be anything like Hawke, I would prefer them not to show up personally.
The only way I can see making a new protagonist work is by making duel protags. The Inquisitor is the main power and calling the shots, and the new character is leading a smaller band serving the Inquisition. I imagine this would be harder than just using the Inquisitor again though.
There's only so far you can progress with a character; if they're already equipped with the Armor, Helmet, Sword and Underoos of Legendary Heroes and are at the point where the Terrible High-Level Monsters have become a snore, where else do you take them? Answer: you knock them back to Level 1 and wearing a potato sack, having lost all the equipment and experience they accumulated last game. And you have to invent a reason for said bringing your Epic Hero down to ordinary, like they died or their foot fell asleep for an extended period.
Or maybe you move away from a combat-obsessed game and into something more meaningful. Throwing a billion faceless enemies at the player is the basest, most simplistic, most obviously artificial way of padding out a game that has too little to offer otherwise. That is not to say that you can't still have combat, of course, just have it happen for a reason and not be the default thing to do in a game. Plus, combat doesn't need to be about the hero alone -- Inquisition is one big missed opportunity for tactical gameplay with that big army we had, for example.
BioWare keeps saying that Dragon Age is all about the world and not any one character. But the reason you're caring at all about the world of DA is because of the characters and you care about certain characters as you interact with them through specific Player Characters. I don't know that BioWare really gets that.
Exactly! That statement has always been nonsense, anyway, or else there would be no Morrigan, Solas or Flemeth in recurring roles as string-pullers. No Leliana and Cullen in all three games. No Cassandra returning to become the founder of the new Inquisition and one of the two primary companions. No recurring companions. No cameos from so many other previous characters. If they bring back everyone and the kitchen sink except for the former protagonist(s), if every now ex-protagonist is treated as dead weight to be disposed of, it not only makes no sense but feels like a deliberate slap in the face to me as the player. Everyone matters except for my character? Gee, thanks.
I don't like having new protagonists each game, for many reasons, but here are the main ones:
Very well said, especially this:
2. It's worse for developing the universe. A lot of people cite the "Thedas is the protagonist" argument during this debate, but in my opinion, having the same protagonist and most of the same cast across multiple games allows the world to actually come to the forefront, not the other way around. If you have to build a new character and their relationships each game, a lot of the focus has to be on that, not the world in general. I found in Mass Effect, I could appreciate the evolving galaxy just fine, and probably more, because Shepard didn't need to be built-up each game. Not only that, but I get sick of my character knowing progressively less and less compared to the player. I don't want to ask all of these questions I should know the answers to.
You make some really good points here, some of which I hadn't even considered before. And yeah, after everything that happened in Inquisition, after everything we learned, the disparity between what we know and what a new character would know would be ridiculous. I want to hit the ground running when it comes to seeing things resolved, not feel l need to learn to walk again first.
There is also the issue that I don't want build new relationships with all the inevitable recurring characters -- I want to revisit the existing bonds between them and the character I first got to know and like them with. Yes, sometimes it might be interesting to see them from a different angle ... but you can show that new angle (e.g. Magister Dorian Pavus, co-leader of the Lumeri versus Dorian the runaway pariah finding acceptance and friends far away from home) while also preserving the old connections.
Plus, after spending a whole game setting up not only Solas himself but specifically his connection to the Inquisitor, then having him wish to be stopped by us, then us dedicating what remains of the Inquisition to stopping him ... it would be a complete travesty of storyelling to throw all that under the bus just because someone arbitrarily decided that protagonists only get one game before being forcibly disappeared.
dragon age is about new protagonist each game... that's the formula.
there can be only one shepard.
dragon age is about new protagonist each game... that's the formula.
there can be only one shepard.
Nothing wrong will happen to the formula if there would be TWO protagonists. In fact, it would fit "the story of the world, rather than one hero" like a glove.
This. I see many people saying that the next game won't focus on Solas and his plans to end the world as we know it. How can you drop something like that in Trespasser and pretend it never happened in the new game? I don't know how I feel about the Inquisitor coming back as a NPC. If it is going to be anything like Hawke, I would prefer them not to show up personally.
The next game will most probably focus on the Qunari invasion of the Tevinter Imperium. In the next game, we could very well play as one of Solas' followers going around screwing both the Imperium and the Qunari.
I also think the Inquisitor would be harder to get right since you could have very complicated views on Solas that will also possibly evolve as you learn more about what he is doing in the next game. You can't just pick one of three personalities for the Inquisitor and call it a day, which is why I think controlling them is the only good option.
Yes, and likewise the choice whether to try to kill or try to save him can't just be determined by what the Inquisitor says to Solas at the end of their confrontation in Trespasser. That likely will carry over into the early parts of the next game, but if whatever happens next could not influence the final decision, the story wouldn't feel very dynamic.
It surprised me, but I like what Weekes is doing so far.
Not me, I have huge issues with the DLC. 
Some of them may have been long pre-determined, so I try not to fault him for that, but ... eh. There are other threads for that, so I won't derail it here.
I also think the Inquisitor would be harder to get right since you could have very complicated views on Solas that will also possibly evolve as you learn more about what he is doing in the next game. You can't just pick one of three personalities for the Inquisitor and call it a day, which is why I think controlling them is the only good option.
Didn't do well for a Hawke who has complicated views on blood magic either.
Considering that Solas is extremely familiar with the Inquisitor and their MO, having a new protagonist is the only thing that would work with the game's foundation. This is partly why they're looking at Tevinter in the first place.
Or maybe you move away from a combat-obsessed game and into something more meaningful. Throwing a billion faceless enemies at the player is the basest, most simplistic, most obviously artificial way of padding out a game that has too little to offer otherwise. That is not to say that you can't still have combat, of course, just have it happen for a reason and not be the default thing to do in a game. Plus, combat doesn't need to be about the hero alone -- Inquisition is one big missed opportunity for tactical gameplay with that big army we had, for example.
Well, if we're dreaming about things that will never happen, then I would also like my XBox One to spit out money whenever I unlock an achievement.
You make some really good points here, some of which I hadn't even considered before. And yeah, after everything that happened in Inquisition, after everything we learned, the disparity between what we know and what a new character would know would be ridiculous. I want to hit the ground running when it comes to seeing things resolved, not feel l need to learn to walk again first.
There is also the issue that I don't want build new relationships with all the inevitable recurring characters -- I want to revisit the existing bonds between them and the character I first got to know and like them with. Yes, sometimes it might be interesting to see them from a different angle ... but you can show that new angle (e.g. Magister Dorian Pavus, co-leader of the Lumeri versus Dorian the runaway pariah finding acceptance and friends far away from home) while also preserving the old connections.
Plus, after spending a whole game setting up not only Solas himself but specifically his connection to the Inquisitor, then having him wish to be stopped by us, then us dedicating what remains of the Inquisition to stopping him ... it would be a complete travesty of storyelling to throw all that under the bus just because someone arbitrarily decided that protagonists only get one game before being forcibly disappeared.
Thanks! I agree completely, we need to hit the ground running when it comes to the knowledge we've already gained in Inquisition, not have to spend a lot of the game relearning everything. I would also prefer revisiting characters as the protagonist that met them, and I think it would actually mean a lot more to see Magister!Dorian in action than as a new person who didn't get to see his earlier self. And that applies to any character. It might be nice for the player to see them again, but that just goes to show that the games are still clearly about the characters.
And that's all you're doing. Seeing them. Not building onto an existing relationship. Not to mention it's an awkward disconnect to have to be introduced to the people you already know and relearn everything you already know about them. And even after all that, you still don't have much of a connection to them. It would work a lot better if the relationship went both ways, if that makes sense.
For the last paragraph, exactly again. The "One game, one protagonist" "rule" is nothing more than arbitrary. It doesn't inherently make for a better game in general or guarantee that it will focus on the world (I used DA2 as a clear example of that). They should simply do what they feel is best for the story, and we've also clearly established that recurring characters do no harm to seeing the evolving world.
Didn't do well for a Hawke who has complicated views on blood magic either.
No argument here, but I thought the whole "I hate the Grey Wardens" thing was even more bizarre.
Considering that Solas is extremely familiar with the Inquisitor and their MO, having a new protagonist is the only thing that would work with the game's foundation. This is partly why they're looking at Tevinter in the first place.
The Inquisitor disagrees with you. They are going up against Solas, even if they're restructuring the Inquisition and acquiring new followers.
The inquisitor disagrees? When said inquisitor clearly said they need people they don't know? Plus leliana plainly states that solas know's how you and the inquisition operates? Hell the inquisitor going to tevinter would be dumb in itself if they plan to stop solas personally.
I certainly see them as major npc but not as a protagonist, in my mind the inquisitor walking around Tevinter would be the equivalent of wearing a siren on top of your head to solas. Since pretty much the whole tevinter government knows who you are and they don't really like you either and they were largely secretly hoping you will "fail".
Having the "herald" or inquisitor running around tevinter just seems silly to me when dealing with someone like solas.
For those of you who want to make it personal, simply have the new protagonists former life destroyed by something Solas did and subsequently rescued by the former Inquisitor or their followers. Bam...now it's personal and you've got a new protagonist.
For those of you who want to make it personal, simply have the new protagonists former life destroyed by something Solas did and subsequently rescued by the former Inquisitor or their followers. Bam...now it's personal and you've got a new protagonist.
Honestly I think that's going to happen because according to sandal's prophecy the veil is going down in some way. I am still banking on the new PC getting an old god essence like Kieran.
Honestly I think that's going to happen because according to sandal's prophecy the veil is going down in some way. I am still banking on the new PC getting an old god essence like Kieran.
Or perhaps (a part of) the soul or spirit of Elgar'nan, that would certainly be more appropriate for facing Solas than the soul of one of the old Dragon-Gods of Tevinter. In addition it also has the new protagonist, being possessed, like the mortal Flemeth once was, by one of the old elven gods. In addition to gaining the knowledge necessary to possibly face Solas on his own turf...and win, it would also allow you to hear the other side of the story. Ancient elven society was apparently pretty terrible and possibly even worse than Tevinter, but even so, I don't think Solas has told us the whole story.
Having a part of Elgar'nan inside the new protagonist would also give both the Tevinter and the Qunari a reason to dislike them intensely....at least at first, and provide a good reason to possibly foment the first succesful slave rebellion against Tevinter since Andraste because you need your own power base.
A new PC each game is fine, how they do it is absolutely absurd. I'll never understand how intelligent designers/writers make such weak choices, is it at the behest of their bosses in the name of sales?
The only time it partially worked (story-wise, even though fan reaction is another story) was in DA2. DAO was a self-contained unit. You could argue that the Warden still had adventures they could go on, but at least most of the major plot lines where cleaned up by the time of the last DLC, if not thoroughly explained.
Now they’ve gone to this idea to foreshadow the next villain, and it’s weak. I can’t believe they even gave Hawke the line in DAI to say Cory was his/her responsibility. He was, but Hawke never gets to have that satisfaction, they make a cameo, spew the line, then either dies or leaves the country.
Hawke has the vendetta against Cory and IQ’s interactions are less interesting because of it, even more so given the ridiculous Hawke cameo. This even helped to neuter Cory into a weak villain. Going forward, if Solas is the villain, it will be even less satisfying as a New PC, who has no history with him, and will have to learn things most DAI players will already know. Its annoying when I know more than my character, and that's becoming the rule rather than the exception in DA. DAI could have been epic, but it wasn’t. Not all of that is due to the new PC, but they way they tailored the story with a foreshowed villain certainly contributed to it.
Imagine if in DAA, the Architect was only introduced... and escaped at the end... roll the credits. AND then he was a major factor in DA2… for Hawke to deal with. How stupid would that have been? Same goes for encountering prior love interests and cameos. We meet them as a new character, and have to suffer through dialogue choices that pretend we don’t know them, because the PC is new and has just met them. It’s stupid and makes the encounters anti-climatic, takes away from the experience and is just plain silly…
New PC bellows,”Hi Morrigan, I romanced you as the Warden in 10 DAO playthroughs and know just about every intimate detail of your life, yet, because you and I have just met, I have to pretend I know nothing about you, isn’t this awesome? Why, Flemeth is your mother? *gasp* I had NO idea this could be true.”
They need to make a clean break between games. They could still have cameos if they wanted, but one game weakly bleeding into the next isn’t working.
Didn't do well for a Hawke who has complicated views on blood magic either.
And Grey Wardens. Bioware just slapped it all with one POV even though this can contradict many Hawkes.
And Grey Wardens. Bioware just slapped it all with one POV even though this can contradict many Hawkes.
Well, you see, the Hawke in DA2 was a product of Varric's imagination... 
Some of it I guess you could chalk up to things that happened in the intermission between the end of then and the beginning of now, but there is something to be said for respecting consistency.
As for the Inquisitor, I could see him making a return as an NPC - the DAK does let you determine your reasons (simplified) for tracking down Solas, so hopefully there won't be as likely a chance of a complete personality/motivation change. They might want to give him a helmet, though.
Or the Inquisitor could have died between games.
Or the Inquisitor could have died between games.
Oh boy, this would be priceless.
Oh boy, this would be priceless.
Chopping the hand off only delayed the inevitable.
For those of you who want to make it personal, simply have the new protagonists former life destroyed by something Solas did and subsequently rescued by the former Inquisitor or their followers. Bam...now it's personal and you've got a new protagonist.
No, it's not. There's nothing about this that can be "simply" replaced. The new random yokel doesn't know Solas, and Solas doesn't know them. They never fought beside him when he was still little more than a normal mage, as vulnerable as any other. They never caught a blow that was meant for him, nor were they shielded by his magic in turn. They never guarded his sleep or he theirs. They never listened to his stories or joked with him. They never argued philosophy, politics or religion with him. They didn't share a roof or a meal with him even once, never mind for three years. They didn't gripe together about the task of trying to wash swamp filth from their clothes before giving up and burning them instead. They didn't spent weeks trudging through the mountains with him at their side, leading a group of ragtag survivors to a new home. They didn't change his mind about modern-day people indeed being people, nor did he change theirs about spirits being people. They were never friends.
Nothing can match this, not without making another whole game about establishing Solas both as his own person and in the context of his relationship with the new protagonist -- and even then, it would lack the changes an Inquisitor can work on his mindset. This connection is something that Bioware has never had in a game before, it would be a complete travesty to throw it away instead of resolving both characters' story arcs as one because they have become one by now.
Jade Empire was sadly a bit of an overlooked game (though I still think it's one of their best), but it is rightly praised for being the first and sadly only Bioware game in which the hero and the villain had a personal bond, which made the experience all the more intense and meaningful. Revan and Malak were supposed to have it, and the big reveal and the final confrontation managed to capture a spark of it, but nonetheless it never felt "real" because we never saw, much less played, the two characters together to make their connection tangible. Solas and the Inquisitor on the other hand could completely eclipse eclipse Sun Li and the Spirit Monk. A new character can't take the Inquisitor's place any more than a new character (or even Dawn Star or Silk Fox, as already established characters) could have taken the Spirit Monk's place after the betrayal in the Imperial Palace.
I would also prefer revisiting characters as the protagonist that met them, and I think it would actually mean a lot more to see Magister!Dorian in action than as a new person who didn't get to see his earlier self. And that applies to any character. It might be nice for the player to see them again, but that just goes to show that the games are still clearly about the characters.
And that's all you're doing. Seeing them. Not building onto an existing relationship. Not to mention it's an awkward disconnect to have to be introduced to the people you already know and relearn everything you already know about them. And even after all that, you still don't have much of a connection to them. It would work a lot better if the relationship went both ways, if that makes sense.
Well said. Time spent on retracing a path laid by a previous game is time wasted, IMO -- both the game's time (which should move the plot forward) and the player's time (I know this already, show me something new instead of forcing me to be ignorant).
Modifié par Korva, 18 septembre 2015 - 11:18 .
No, it's not. There's nothing about this that can be "simply" replaced. The new random yokel doesn't know Solas, and Solas doesn't know them. They never fought beside him when he was still little more than a normal mage, as vulnerable as any other. They never caught a blow that was meant for him, nor were they shielded by his magic in turn. They never guarded his sleep or he theirs. They never listened to his stories or joked with him. They never argued philosophy, politics or religion with him. They didn't share a roof or a meal with him even once, never mind for three years. They didn't gripe together about the task of trying to wash swamp filth from their clothes before giving up and burning them instead. They didn't spent weeks trudging through the mountains with him at their side, leading a group of ragtag survivors to a new home. They didn't change his mind about modern-day people indeed being people, nor did he change theirs about spirits being people. They were never friends.
Nothing can match this, not without making another whole game about establishing Solas both as his own person and in the context of his relationship with the new protagonist -- and even then, it would lack the changes an Inquisitor can work on his mindset. This connection is something that Bioware has never had in a game before, it would be a complete travesty to throw it away instead of resolving both characters' story arcs as one because they have become one by now.
Jade Empire was sadly a bit of an overlooked game (though I still think it's one of their best), but it is rightly praised for being the first and sadly only Bioware game in which the hero and the villain had a personal bond, which made the experience all the more intense and meaningful. Solas and the Inquisitor could completely eclipse that. A new character can't take the Inquisitor's place any more than a new character (or even Dawn Star or Silk Fox, as already established characters) could have taken the Spirit Monk's place after the betrayal in the Imperial Palace.
I don't know you, but i think i may love you.
You put most of the "we want the Inquisitor back" crowds thoughts into words. Compellingly, too.
mmmm. Jade Empire. Now there is a game i want to play again
The inquisitor disagrees? When said inquisitor clearly said they need people they don't know? Plus leliana plainly states that solas know's how you and the inquisition operates? Hell the inquisitor going to tevinter would be dumb in itself if they plan to stop solas personally.
I certainly see them as major npc but not as a protagonist, in my mind the inquisitor walking around Tevinter would be the equivalent of wearing a siren on top of your head to solas. Since pretty much the whole tevinter government knows who you are and they don't really like you either and they were largely secretly hoping you will "fail".
Having the "herald" or inquisitor running around tevinter just seems silly to me when dealing with someone like solas.
Many people seem to be taking the reason for going to Tevinter the wrong way. The inquisitor doesn't say that because he doesn't want Solas to know he's coming for him. You outright declare to Solas in the DLC that you are coming for him, whether to kill him or to redeem him. A few people in here seem to think that you have to keep your involvement a surprise. You don't. The problem is the organization itself, the inquisition. He knows how the organization works, the people who comprise it. Whether it's your agents, soldiers, or diplomatic relations. He knows how the inquisition operates because he's been there since the start. The whole line about Tevinter was finding new allies. People who can work with you who won't be as predictable as your former organization.
I also don't see how it's "silly" for the inquisitor to be in Tevinter at all. Solas threatens the world, technically he is the person behind the breach and the inquisition was started to find the one who is responsible. It doesn't matter which borders he crosses, he is a threat that needs to be stopped and the inquisitor and their inner circle are the best people to do so.
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