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[Former_Fiend]

Personally I would prefer a story that ended in anti-climax for the Inquisitor.

 

Fact is that there's nothing special or magical that makes it to where the Inquisitor is the only person who can stop Solas. There's nothing but a personal grudge that not everyone bought into.

 

Joss Whedon is a very big influence on Bioware's writing for Dragon Age and one of his big things was deconstructing the idea of "I'm the only one allowed to defeat you!" The inquisitor has declared that they'll be the one to stop/redeem Solas, Solas has marked the Inquisitor as his rival, but the fact is, that means all of jack to the rest of the world.

 

Anyone of sufficient will and capability can bring Solas down. If anything, it would be more appropriate that he is defeated/redeemed by someone other than the Inquisitor. His problem is that he doesn't see the people of modern Thedas as having any worth, with the Inquisitor being the only one to prove him wrong. Having someone else prove him wrong would go further to show that the people of modern Thedas are worth preserving, rather than saying "they're all worthless except for this guy."

 

Not to mention the simple fact that a non-Inquisitor protagonist has a built in advantage; Solas has tunnel vision directed somewhere else. Hell, that was my interpretation of the stinger; "Solas knows us. We can't go after him. So we're going to find someone he doesn't know to take him down for us." That's what I got from that scene.

 

The Warden didn't get to deal with Morrigan and Flemeth's conclusion. Hawke didn't get to take down Corypheus or factor into the end of the Mage/Templar war. It falls perfectly within Bioware's pattern that the Inquisitor will not be directly responsible for Solas' downfall.

[The Baconer]

Personally I would prefer a story that ended in anti-climax for the Inquisitor.

 

But I want to make the legend come back to life.

[Ariella]

As I said above, I have faith in what Weekes will do with the plot. He's never written anything I've disliked. And if you read anything he has ever written about Solas, he certainly didn't write the plot just to "sucker punch" people.
 
Dropping out of the plot isn't even the best option if the Inquisitor chose the "redeem" option, as he is much more likely to listen to someone he already cares about. An unknown definitely has some advantages (which is why the Inquisitor specifically says they are going to recruit one), which is why I think we may get dual protagonists, but the Inquisitor has advantages too - They know Solas. He may have kept his identity hidden, but the Inquisitor knows how he thinks/feels by now too. It goes both ways.  
 

Not a sucker punch? Tell me you anticipated Solas would turn out to be the Dread Wolf. Tell me the end credit scene didn't have you going 'holy crap'.

And you're wrong. Solas played things very close to the vest and let little of who he really was be known. He slipped a time or two, but not enough. Nor did the Inquisitor see him functioning in any other role than as an advisor and companion. They have no idea what his command style is like, no idea about what tactics he might favor. No idea as to the full extent of his resources or powers. Solas has the Inquisitor at a complete disadvantage. It's a game the Inquisitor can't win, so best thing to do is to change the game.

Former Fiend also makes a great point in that having someone else defeat/redeem Solas has serious storytelling advantages in that it disproves Solas' beliefs about Thedas. If a person he's never had contact with, never had a hand in shaping can defeat him, maybe there's something to the world after all.

[AresKeith]

Yep my quizzy flat out said they had a world to save again. Someone else's quizzy might be ready to sit around and get killed but mine isn't.

 

you can save the world from behind a desk

[midnight tea]

Personally I would prefer a story that ended in anti-climax for the Inquisitor.

 

Fact is that there's nothing special or magical that makes it to where the Inquisitor is the only person who can stop Solas. There's nothing but a personal grudge that not everyone bought into.

 

Nothing special? Whether they lost it or not, they held one of the most unique powers in Thedas at one point and there's no telling if there aren't some remnants of it left.

 

They've also managed to organize and lead an organization that dealt with an ancient magister darkspawn who tried to become a god, and changed the political landscape of the realm.

 

They have access to leaders of most known Thedas, they've scoured the world for knowledge and influence, they've searched and uncovered the secret history of Thedas at a capacity no one else has done before. Aside from challenging the ancient darkspawn they've also fought and defeated an Avvar spirit-god, discovered Titans and traveled through eluvians to find out about the lost world of the elves and rebellion of the Dread Wolf.

 

...And on top of this, the creator of the frikking Veil itself either considers them a nemesis or his way for redemption.

 

You're fooling yourself if you think that the story hasn't made Inquisitor special in many respects. 

 

Joss Whedon is a very big influence on Bioware's writing for Dragon Age and one of his big things was deconstructing the idea of "I'm the only one allowed to defeat you!" The inquisitor has declared that they'll be the one to stop/redeem Solas, Solas has marked the Inquisitor as his rival, but the fact is, that means all of jack to the rest of the world.

 

 

The rest of the world is endangered by a man to whom Inquisitor either means a lot, or at least Inquisitor knows them on a level very few other know him. If you think that amounts to nothing from either the world's or storytelling perspective, then boy - I've got news for you...

 

You don't set up an active relationship between a protagonist and one of the most important persons in whole of Thedas through the entire duration of DAI, imply in the epilogue and the world-state Keep that Inquisitor's new mission is to stop Solas and then just... replace them.

 

That's like building an entire, multi-chapter saga about Avengers, only for the last movie for them to be replaced with Fantastic Four for no reason.

 

I don't think I should tell you how much of a bad idea that is.

 

Besides - I've already touched upon this in one of my older posts, so I'll just paste it here:

"DA would still remain true to is core concept of telling the story of the world, rather than one protagonist, if the story was written in a way that would make the fate of the world (and Inquisitor) hinge on decisions of DA4 hero.

 

It can be done. In fact, it HAS been done, in many different ways: decisions made in previous games directly influence how events play out in Inquisition. And, of course, there's always the intentional grand irony of DAI's story: that it was Corypheus who, in all his madness and arrogance, gave the world another chance, by disrupting initial plans Solas had. It is thanks to him that Inquisition - and Inquisitor - actually rose to power.

 

Or take TES: Oblivion for example. That story was a story of Martin Septim - it was he who eventually stopped the main baddie. But without Champion of Cyrodiil he wouldn't be able to do anything. The Champion was the connective tissue between Martin Septim and his destiny.

So can the main PC of DA4 shape the world and enable things through his or her actions and they can feel no less important than Inquisitor."

 

The fact remains that a new protagonist can be important WITH Inquisitor still being retained as a major player in the narrative. Not only it would be perfectly within the lines of what DA creators have set to do (tell the story of Thedas through multiple eyes and interconnect their story in some important way), it was already done at least once in this story - without Hawke, neither Corypheus would be released, nor Inquisitor would know of a Warden in Crestwood, the contact with whom enables them to stop Wardens and Nightmare from creating the demon army for Cory.

 

 

Anyone of sufficient will and capability can bring Solas down. If anything, it would be more appropriate that he is defeated/redeemed by someone other than the Inquisitor. His problem is that he doesn't see the people of modern Thedas as having any worth, with the Inquisitor being the only one to prove him wrong. Having someone else prove him wrong would go further to show that the people of modern Thedas are worth preserving, rather than saying "they're all worthless except for this guy."

 

No - Solas certainly views approved Quizzy as probably one of the brightest souls of this age, but he doesn't say anything that suggests that he views only Inquisitor as a person. He states verbatim "you have shown that this world has value" and "you were people and you deserved better".

 

And while I agree that bringing more people together to convince Solas to change his plan is probably what will happen, it still remains Quizzy's job to bring all those people together. Whether someone else kills or redeems him, eventually Quizzes will take credit, simply by the virtue of being ones who instilled either doubt and hope in Solas, and back in the time when we were allowed to know and relate to him in a way no other person will likely be able to (seeing how Inquisitor's story and their role in universe in many respects resembles that of Solas as well).

Therefore I don't see how it's possible to write a story of redeeming/ending Solas without them, simply from a way the story is shaped now.

 

Not to mention the simple fact that a non-Inquisitor protagonist has a built in advantage; Solas has tunnel vision directed somewhere else. Hell, that was my interpretation of the stinger; "Solas knows us. We can't go after him. So we're going to find someone he doesn't know to take him down for us." That's what I got from that scene.

 

The Warden didn't get to deal with Morrigan and Flemeth's conclusion. Hawke didn't get to take down Corypheus or factor into the end of the Mage/Templar war. It falls perfectly within Bioware's pattern that the Inquisitor will not be directly responsible for Solas' downfall.

 

.... How did you come to a conclusion to "we can't go after him?" when the last scene tells something completely different? Leliana warns that he knows them and their current strategies, to which Cassandra responds "we will have to be careful" and Inquisitor ending with "we will have to fight people he doesn't know."

 

Also - neither Warden nor Hawke got an epilogue or keep choices that suggest that this time the protagonist sill has a pretty active role in future story. Heck, Warden can die (and mostly did) at the very end of DAO, which in itself cements their fate as heroes who do not return (and the devs keep repeating that he won't be back, which is something they're yet to do with Quizzy).

 

In fact, whether they can die, or leave to parts unknown is actually a pretty good indicator of a hero returning later - we know that Warden won't now, and Hawke can die in DAI, which indicates that the won't be back at any larger role in future installments.

Quizzy on the other hand? They don't die. They don't travel to parts unknown. Each Inquisitor, no matter how good or bad at their job, or being friends with others all and up in pretty much the same spot - alive, with no hand, but remaining resources and important people, secretly conspiring what to do to stop Solas and planning to visit Tevinter in one way or another.

 

That in itself speaks volumes of their possible future involvement.

[Ryzaki]

you can save the world from behind a desk

 

You can but what BioWare protag you know has ever done that? We don't even have smart protags.

[AresKeith]

You can but what BioWare protag you know has ever done that? We don't even have smart protags.

 

You have to make them smart by not picking the dumb dialogue *looks at Shepard* 

[midnight tea]

Not a sucker punch? Tell me you anticipated Solas would turn out to be the Dread Wolf. Tell me the end credit scene didn't have you going 'holy crap'.

And you're wrong. Solas played things very close to the vest and let little of who he really was be known. He slipped a time or two, but not enough. Nor did the Inquisitor see him functioning in any other role than as an advisor and companion. They have no idea what his command style is like, no idea about what tactics he might favor. No idea as to the full extent of his resources or powers. Solas has the Inquisitor at a complete disadvantage. It's a game the Inquisitor can't win, so best thing to do is to change the game.

 

Um, we do, actually. Numerous times, he slipped some things about himself and his preferred tactics, via banter or comments. We know rather well that he prefers to strike from the shadows and his ways are those of subterfuge, infiltration and guerrilla tactics, rather than anything open or noticeable. We know that he enjoys the Game/court intrigue and while he can be ruthless, he tries to treat people fairly. We know that he lies mostly by omission and that he has serious control and trust issues. 

 

And if Inqusitor is a friend or a lover, we do know that he has a soft spot for them.

 

So while Inquistors may not know the full extent of his powers, knowledge or spy network, try and come up with anyone who has ANY information on Dread Wolf that rivals even the incomplete picture Inquisitor has... No one else comes to mind.

 

Nobody else we know of had any sort of access to Solas Inquisitor and Inquisition had. And likely nobody knows as much about ancient elves and Fen'Harel's past as Inquisition, thanks to revelations in Trespasser.

 

Really, at this point Inquisitors are the ones who knows him best - that is, of course, unless DA4 gives us an entirely new organization that spied on him or some sort of person that knew him well prior to the Veil's creation. The latter I think is not far-fetched, but at best they'd serve as either companion, or NPC and be delegated to being an info dump.

 

But what would be the point - what's the point of that when we already have Inquisitor and his/her ilk? Or what's the point of establishing another organization that chases after Fen'Harel, when Inquisition already has an advantage of all the discovered elvhen history and knowledge and the remaining resources to spend on gaining more information on him?

 

I also see no point whatsoever in the story re-establishing everything all over again, for a new protagonist to discover almost everything we did in DAI on their own. It makes little sense for me to try and dedicate a lot of story and resources for it, when a lot of it has already been discovered in Inquisition, by Inquisition...

[Abyss108]

Not a sucker punch? Tell me you anticipated Solas would turn out to be the Dread Wolf. Tell me the end credit scene didn't have you going 'holy crap'.

And you're wrong. Solas played things very close to the vest and let little of who he really was be known. He slipped a time or two, but not enough. Nor did the Inquisitor see him functioning in any other role than as an advisor and companion. They have no idea what his command style is like, no idea about what tactics he might favor. No idea as to the full extent of his resources or powers. Solas has the Inquisitor at a complete disadvantage. It's a game the Inquisitor can't win, so best thing to do is to change the game.

Former Fiend also makes a great point in that having someone else defeat/redeem Solas has serious storytelling advantages in that it disproves Solas' beliefs about Thedas. If a person he's never had contact with, never had a hand in shaping can defeat him, maybe there's something to the world after all.

 

I never said it wasn't a sucker punch - I said it wasn't JUST a sucker punch. The character was not written for the sole purpose of going "haha, got you" at the end. The relationship was not written for that reason. It was to humanize the character, and to show that he cares. If you disagree with that, then you are disagreeing with what the writers have outright stated in interviews. There's a gut punch at the end yes, but "The relationship was built so that they could sucker punch us with the reveal." is not the case at all. Of course you can always argue whether it was effective or not, but it certainly wasn't the reason it was written.

 

I disagree that having someone else defeat/redeem Solas has any kind of storytelling advantage. That is just a different character doing exactly the same thing the Inquisitor has been building up to do. What does that offer?

 

Defeat - It's exactly the same story, but without any emotional attachment. You built up a character in Inquisition who not only wanted to stop Solas for "the greater good", but actually had a personal involvement, a massive betrayal from him, a reason to kill him for themselves. A new character has none of that.

 

Redeem - Makes no sense for someone who doesn't know him to even dream of this option. And even if for some reason they did, the way to "redeem" Solas is to show him the modern races are people and worth saving - aka exactly what you start to do in Inquisition. A new protagonist would just be starting exactly the same storyline from the beginning again and pretending it didn't happen the first time.

 

Solas really didn't do that much to "shape" the Inquisitor - he stopped the hand killing them at the very start, and he gave them a castle. Neither of these affected how the Inquisitor led people, or what decisions they made. You can be an Inquisitor completely against everything Solas believes. The only "shaping" he did, was giving them a magic glowy hand - which they don't have any more, so it isn't going to be used to defeat him. Solas didn't teach you how to lead an army, he didn't teach you how to play The Game at the Winter Palace. That glowy hand could have gone to anyone, but not anyone could have gone on to defeat Cory afterwards.

 

And midnight tea has already posted, pointing out all the stuff we know about how Solas thinks!

[Ariella]

Um, he did, actually. Numerous times, via banter or comments. We know rather well that he prefers to strike from the shadows and his ways are those if subterfuge, infiltration and guerrilla tactics, rather than anything open or noticeable. We know that he enjoys the Game/court intrigue and while he can be ruthless, he tries to treat people fairly. We know that he lies mostly by omission and that he has serious control and trust issues. 
 
And if Inqusitor is a friend or a lover, we do know that he has a soft spot for them.
 
So while Inquistors may not know the full extent of his powers, knowledge or spy network, try and come up with anyone who has ANY information on Dread Wolf that rivals even the incomplete picture Inquisitor has. No one else comes to mind.
 
Nobody else we know of had any sort of access to Solas Inquisitor and Inquisition had. Likely nobody knows as much about ancient elves and Fen'Harel's past, thanks to revelations in Trespasser.
 
Really, at this point Inquisitors are the ones who knows him best - that is of course unless DA4 gives us an entirely new organization that spied on him or some sort of person that knew him well prior to the Veil's creation. The latter I think is not far-fetched, but at best they'd serve as either companion, or NPC and be delegated to being an info dump.
 
But what would be the point - what's the point of that when we already have Inquisitor and his/her ilk? Or what's the point of establishing another organization that chases Fen'Harel when Inquisition already has an advantage of all of the discovered elvhen history and knowledge and the remaining resources to spend on gaining more information on him?
 
I also see no point whatsoever in the story re-establishing everything all over again, for a new protagonist to discover almost everything we did in DAI on their own. It makes little sense for me to try and dedicate a lot of story and resources for it, when a lot of it has already been discovered in Inquisition, by Inquisition...

I never got the whole strike from the shadows thing. I never heard that in banter, and while he seems attracted to the Game, we've never truly seen him play it except for Trespasser and that's just one event.

And again, Solas pretty much shaped the Inquisitor. Saw the entire process of going from nobody to savior. And he had a vested interest in paying very close attention. That's priceless advantage, and one the Inquisition can't match, so we change the game. Someone who he can't anticipate, someone he doesn't know inside and out.

That and Bioware's pretty much stated this isn't about the Warden or Hawke or the Inquisitor, it's about Thedas. A new protagonist gives us fresh eyes, especially if the tea leaf readers are right and we are finally going north.

[Wynterdust]

Depends what they do with the gameplay but they could have two protagonists with one being the Inquisitor. You could control the choices of the Inquisitor similar to the war table and in key cutscenes but the actual operations could be played out by another protagonist. Unless they find a way to get the Inq a new arm then they could be used in the field.

[Nefla]

And again, Solas pretty much shaped the Inquisitor. Saw the entire process of going from nobody to savior. And he had a vested interest in paying very close attention. That's priceless advantage, and one the Inquisition can't match, so we change the game. Someone who he can't anticipate, someone he doesn't know inside and out.

You don't shape someone by watching them.

 

Anyway, I don't see how a DA4 about dealing with Solas could possibly be well done without the inquisitor as the protagonist. BioWare's storytelling has IMO gone down the tube in recent years anyway and wasting this prime opportunity they've created for a protagonist with a real connection to the antagonist and a compelling reason to personally go after him is just stupid. Why throw substance and connection away for yet another round of "random evil guy trying to destroy the world/galaxy/etc..." and a protagonist who comes along because they're strong and don't want the world to be destroyed.

 

Imagine if DA2 hadn't been about Hawke and co. and instead had been the story of the warden Janeka. You spend the whole game as her, trying to uncover the secrets of ending the blights forever but in the end you realize you've made a horrible mistake and have unleashed Corypheus on the world. I don't know about you but if that had been the case, I'd want to play as her again and finish what I started, not as someone random and unrelated (the inquisitor) who just shows up out of nowhere to save the day. The inquisitor had zero connection or motivation aside from "save the world" to go after Corypheus and the game was weaker for it. 

[Homeboundcrib]

You don't shape someone by watching them.

Anyway, I don't see how a DA4 about dealing with Solas could possibly be well done without the inquisitor as the protagonist. BioWare's storytelling has IMO gone down the tube in recent years anyway and wasting this prime opportunity they've created for a protagonist with a real connection to the antagonist and a compelling reason to personally go after him is just stupid. Why throw substance and connection away for yet another round of "random evil guy trying to destroy the world/galaxy/etc..." and a protagonist who comes along because they're strong and don't want the world to be destroyed.

Imagine if DA2 hadn't been about Hawke and co. and instead had been the story of the warden Janeka. You spend the whole game as her, trying to uncover the secrets of ending the blights forever but in the end you realize you've made a horrible mistake and have unleashed Corypheus on the world. I don't know about you but if that had been the case, I'd want to play as her again and finish what I started, not as someone random and unrelated (the inquisitor) who just shows up out of nowhere to save the day. The inquisitor had zero connection or motivation aside from "save the world" to go after Corypheus and the game was weaker for it.

What you just said is perfect I don't see how someone new would have the same incentive to save or even kill solas like the inqusitior would, this story arc could be amazing and we'll explored in so much depth.

Also I know it's not about one person it's about the world but the people and there stories make the world. You can still find and meet new companions, explore a whole new area and places while playing as the inqusitior. If DA:2 was a hit we would have been playing as Hawke again, he or she was meant to be the inqusitior but because a lot of people wanted race selections and because DA:2 didn't do so well that was wiped.

[Nefla]

What you just said is perfect I don't see how someone new would have the same incentive to save or even kill solas like the inqusitior would, this story arc could be amazing and we'll explored in so much depth.

Also I know it's not about one person it's about the world but the people and there stories make the world. You can still find and meet new companions, explore a whole new area and places while playing as the inqusitior. If DA:2 was a hit we would have been playing as Hawke again, he or she was meant to be the inqusitior but because a lot of people wanted race selections and because DA:2 didn't do so well that was wiped.

If they hadn't done Trespasser and hadn't set Solas up as the next villain it wouldn't have been a problem, that's the weird thing. They could have just left it as it was after the original game's ending, or made a DLC about the inquisition shrinking/disbanding but not include Solas. That would leave the whole world open to a variety of smaller and more personal stories. DA4 could have been about a Tevinter slave uprising and the protagonist could start as a slave and be one of the revolution's ringleaders. The villain could be someone personally connected to you, someone you have a grudge against like your former master. But now It's all about Solas trying to destroy the world and if the protagonist is some random person then it's random unconnected Joe vs random unconnected evil guy. Snooze.

[Homeboundcrib]

If they hadn't done Trespasser and hadn't set Solas up as the next villain it wouldn't have been a problem, that's the weird thing. They could have just left it as it was after the original game's ending, or made a DLC about the inquisition shrinking/disbanding but not include Solas. That would leave the whole world open to a variety of smaller and more personal stories. DA4 could have been about a Tevinter slave uprising and the protagonist could start as a slave and be one of the revolution's ringleaders. The villain could be someone personally connected to you, someone you have a grudge against like your former master. But now It's all about Solas trying to destroy the world and if the protagonist is some random person then it's random unconnected Joe vs random unconnected evil guy. Snooze.

Yeah at the end of DA:I I was happy how it ended we had the little twist found out something cool, I would have been happy playing as a new pc for the new DA but then trespasser came and made it even more personal and more about solas and the inqusitior and there journey. I'm about the story and it's people, the connections they have and share. There are pleanty of stories out there that can be discovered by others.

[midnight tea]

I never got the whole strike from the shadows thing. I never heard that in banter, and while he seems attracted to the Game, we've never truly seen him play it except for Trespasser and that's just one event.

 

There are numerous comments all throughout the game. Among them there's this - if you take him to protect Haven from Cory, he tells us something akin of "I understand the tactics, but I've always avoided to bringing so much attention to myself".

 

He then has entire series of banter with Sera after her personal quest, where he schools Sera about how to run organization like hers. From the looks of it (and how it ends) it seems to be based on personal experience.

 

There's are also a few Iron Bull comments, with one of them pointing out how Solas likes to be hidden/unassuming and most enemies never see him coming - and Solas treats Bull's comment as a compliment.

 

Heck, the whole Qunari infiltration, how he tipped Inquisition about it and how he annoyed the hell out of them throughout Trespasser - all this speaks volumes of how he works.

 

And he so genuinely enjoys the Game and is swept up by it, that after the return to Skyhold he's the closest to revealing himself. There are also numerous banters between him and Vivienne about the Game and Vivienne notes how Solas knows more about it than she expected him to, including an effective use of servants.

 

Add to that his approvals of some of Inkys actions and truth is we have quite a good picture of him, even if not complete.

 

And again, Solas pretty much shaped the Inquisitor. Saw the entire process of going from nobody to savior. And he had a vested interest in paying very close attention. That's priceless advantage, and one the Inquisition can't match, so we change the game. Someone who he can't anticipate, someone he doesn't know inside and out.

 

I wouldn't say that Solas shaped the Inquisitor - in fact, the approved/romanced Inquisitor seems to be always surprising him. Even in Trespasser he says a few times "you proved me wrong. Again/numerous times." They keep going against his expectations and even in the balcony scene, where he confirms his friendship/cements romance, Solas admits "most people are predictable... but not you!"

 

So no - he doesn't seem to know them in a way that would help them predict their every move. In fact, he seems to like approved Inkys precisely because they're a constant source of surprise for him.

 

What's more, in case of approved Quizzys, I'd say that both parties have "shaped themselves" - Inquisitor has managed to crack Solas's millenia-long resolve; one he killed his good friend with (Felassan in TME) - a person that he knew far longer and probably also trusted more, until they've defied him. He/she made him doubt and open to change. He's vulnerable to their influence.

 

With the exception of Mythal (if she survived in some capacity) at this point it seems they're the only person that hold so much sway over him, or are those of the few that he views as equals in many respects.

 

... And how exactly you are going to achieve any of this with a new protagonist?

 

The way I see it, just from logical perspective... There's just no way. No frikking way for Bioware to actually repeat the whole story all over again, or make another person achieve anything the like what is between Solas and Inquisitor (even the disliked one, in some smaller ways). It's likely that the protagonist of DA4 will likely 'prove' his/her worth in some way in their own arc; perhaps turn out to be a key for Inky to convince Solas to change his plans, or something of the sort. But the story of Solas appears to be intrinsically connected with Inquisitor, so I just don't see how they'd just make another person do most of the job of dealing with him.

 

(also - what reason a new protagonist would have to redeem Solas??? How would they redeem him, if Solas offers a chance to change his mind only to those who had gained enough of his trust, gained all throughout the duration of DAI?? What would be the point of offering us this option in the first place, if in the end it means nothing???)

 

 

That and Bioware's pretty much stated this isn't about the Warden or Hawke or the Inquisitor, it's about Thedas. A new protagonist gives us fresh eyes, especially if the tea leaf readers are right and we are finally going north.

 

Nothing prevents them from giving us a fresh pair of eyes, but keep the old ones in some measure. In fact, it would actually bring a truly interesting fresh approach to offer us POVs of both 'veteran' and 'newbie' PCs; not just to those who will return to the franchise, but to newcomers as well.

 

Also.. they wouldn't be showing (every) Inky stabbing the Tevinter map, sending Dorian to Tevinter (in any possible world-state) and offering us a comic that happens likely mostly in Tevinter (or is driven by stuff happening mostly in Tevinter) if we weren't going north, IMO.

[In Exile]

Personally I would prefer a story that ended in anti-climax for the Inquisitor.

 

That story is called DA:I. Seriously, the story is about deconstructing the Inquisitor as a chosen one. The only reason it's not seen in the same way as DA:2 (as a deconstruction of fantasy heroes) is that the Inquisitor doesn't stumble from failure to failure. Or, to put it in terms more consistent with DA:O, Bioware's return to their old plot of having everything work out great for their protagonists solely in virtue of the fact that they're amazing at murdering people in their way. But the Inquisitor's story is a total anti-climax. 

[RenAdaar]

I do like new protags and new stories but for real they can't just drop the solas and inquisitor issue ...If my inquisitor can't stop solas at least let them kick him in the balls. 

[Former_Fiend]

Ok, let's take this piece by piece, shall we.

 

 

Nothing special? Whether they lost it or not, they held one of the most unique powers in Thedas at one point and there's no telling if there aren't some remnants of it left.

 

That's pure supposition, and frankly, it would be kind of trite to have the anchor removed only to have some of it's powers remain. "You get to keep this magical power even though the source of it was removed from you, and now you don't have to worry about it killing you anymore, because you're a super awesome main character like that." No thanks.

 

 

They have access to leaders of most known Thedas, they've scoured the world for knowledge and influence, they've searched and uncovered the secret history of Thedas at a capacity no one else has done before. Aside from challenging the ancient darkspawn they've also fought and defeated an Avvar spirit-god, discovered Titans and traveled through eluvians to find out about the lost world of the elves and rebellion of the Dread Wolf.

 

These are all good reasons why they need to step aside and give someone else a chance before their list of accomplishments grow so long that it loses all meaning. I don't know about you, but I have no interest in playing the John Cena of Thedas.

 

And on top of this, the creator of the frikking Veil itself either considers them a nemesis or his way for redemption.

 

I do not care. Nor do any of the millions of other people that Solas is determined to murder. Looking at this from outside, I see no reason to sit back and hinge my hopes of survival on the Inquisitor just because Solas is feeling dramatic and believes his defeat or redemption needs to come at the hands of a chosen arch enemy. In fact, it would bring me endless pleasure to rob him of that, just to deny him the satisfaction of being bested by the person he's designated.

 

You're fooling yourself if you think that the story hasn't made Inquisitor special in many respects.

 

I did not say there was nothing special about the Inquisitor. I said there was nothing special that made the Inquisitor the only one physically capable of defeating Solas. The Inquisitor isn't a Grey Warden and Solas isn't an Archdemon. As far as any of us are aware, Solas is just a mortal man - a powerful one, but mortal all the same - who can be killed by anyone of sufficient skill and power. Even if there is something special required to kill him, there's no indication that it's related to the anchor, and even if it is - which would be an asspull in and of itself - there's no indication that the Inquisitor still has any of that power beyond your speculation that they may have kept it because of reasons.

 

So if there is a special something that means only someone who has that special something can kill Solas for whatever reason, the Inquisitor doesn't have it; at least not yet. So if it does exist, I say give it to someone else, and if it doesn't, I still say let someone else deal with it.

 

The rest of the world is endangered by a man to whom Inquisitor either means a lot, or at least Inquisitor knows them on a level very few other know him. If you think that amounts to nothing from either the world's or storytelling perspective, then boy - I've got news for you...

 

It doesn't amount to anything from the world's perspective. The world doesn't care about anyone's relationship. The world doesn't care who anyone decides is their arch enemy. The world just happens. 

 

And the fact is that the Inquisitor doesn't necessarily know Solas on any kind of level. It's entirely possible to go through the main game and have a grand total of two conversations with the man; when you meet him and when he leads you to Skyhold. Outside of that, depending on your choices, you're never required to speak to him, get to know him, show any interest at all. This is the problem with this type of game where the developers try to impose upon us who our character does and does not care about. I consider it a flaw in the writing that our character is forced to consider Solas a personal issue, one way or the other, when it's entirely reasonable that we see him as nothing more than a threat to be stopped, and not necessarily by us.

 

 

You don't set up an active relationship between a protagonist and one of the most important persons in whole of Thedas through the entire duration of DAI, imply in the epilogue and the world-state Keep that Inquisitor's new mission is to stop Solas and then just... replace them.

 

That's like building an entire, multi-chapter saga about Avengers, only for the last movie for them to be replaced with Fantastic Four for no reason.

 

Or it's like having Luke Skywalker beat Darth Vader instead of Obi Wan. I am not suggesting that they drop the Inquisitor cold. I am not suggesting that the Inquisitor play no part at all in Solas' downfall. I have full confidence in Bioware that they can build on that existing relationship while at the same time craft a new relationship that is equally personal, or perhaps more so. Given that I have absolutely no investment in the feud between the Inquisitor and Solas at all, I would like for them to try again from the ground up rather than continuing on a path I have no interest in.

 

There are plenty of ways to do this and make it work. It is not an impossible feat by any means.

[BansheeOwnage]

I have no interest in playing as the inquisitor again.

That's great for you, but it's less about how much we all like the Inquisitor and more what we think suits the story better. For the record, the Inquisitor is my least favourite of the three protagonists, but I'd still prefer playing as her again over someone new (and would like to even without the Solas thing for the reasons I listed on the first page, but that's less important).

 

 

People who want the Inquisitor back, want them back specifically for the Solas plotline. And whilst we don't know anything about the plotline, they wouldn't spend an entire game building up to a war against Solas, only to pretend that never happened.

A whole game and a DLC. Also, didn't Weekes say if they made another game it would give Solas' story closure?

 

The relationship was built so that they could sucker punch us with the reveal. I said it before, and I'll say it again, the very fact of this relationship with Solas makes the Inquisitor the worst possible person on the planet to go up against Solas now, considering Solas pretty much had a hand in creating the Inquisitor. He knows everything there is to know about the IQ, how they think, how they feel, where the handles are. And at the same time he kept who he really was from the IQ so there is no matching advantage. Recruiting an x factor to deal with him makes a great deal more sense.

This argument is bad. If it was such an enormous disadvantage, the Inquisitor wouldn't have bothered going after him at all. And yet, they go after him with everything they have (left). Knowing someone isn't actually a win-button. With how powerful Solas is, you'll need a deus ex machina ace up your sleeve to beat him regardless, so it's not like him knowing you makes a difference in that regard - from a meta standpoint.

[Former_Fiend]

That's great for you, but it's less about how much we all like the Inquisitor and more what we think suits the story better. For the record, the Inquisitor is my least favourite of the three protagonists, but I'd still prefer playing as her again over someone knew (and would like to even without the Solas thing for the reasons I listed on the first page, but that's less important).

 

 

 

And I think the story can be perfectly well suited and served with a new protagonist and the Inquisitor in a supporting role.

[BansheeOwnage]

Personally I would prefer a story that ended in anti-climax for the Inquisitor.

 

Fact is that there's nothing special or magical that makes it to where the Inquisitor is the only person who can stop Solas. There's nothing but a personal grudge that not everyone bought into.

It's not about the Inquisitor being the only person who could possibly stop Solas (and I don't think anyone is saying it is). It's about the narrative that they've build up over a game and a DLC, why they did, and what makes sense to do with it in the next game.

 

 

But what would be the point - what's the point of that when we already have Inquisitor and his/her ilk? Or what's the point of establishing another organization that chases Fen'Harel when Inquisition already has an advantage of all of the discovered elvhen history and knowledge and the remaining resources to spend on gaining more information on him?

 

I also see no point whatsoever in the story re-establishing everything all over again, for a new protagonist to discover almost everything we did in DAI on their own. It makes little sense for me to try and dedicate a lot of story and resources for it, when a lot of it has already been discovered in Inquisition, by Inquisition...

Yes, this is one of the most important arguments here. Basically, if they choose to throw it all away for a new protagonist, they would be doing it just because it's a thing. It's pointless. Everything is already set up. There is little-to-no narrative value in doing that. It's fixing what isn't broken. It would be like them reworking any given system each game for no purpose other than some vague idea of being "fresh". I'm not writing terribly well today, but hopefully that made sense.

 

And I think the story can be perfectly well suited and served with a new protagonist and the Inquisitor in a supporting role.

Alright, fine. Obviously we disagree. My point was simply that liking the Inquisitor is irrelevant to this debate.

[Former_Fiend]

You say "narrative", I say "railroaded cliche". 

[BansheeOwnage]

You say "narrative", I say "railroaded cliche". 

How is - What? Solas is one of the best-written, best built-up, and most realistic antagonists I've seen - ever. More importantly, his relationship to the Inquisitor is one of the best hero-villain relationships I've ever seen as well.

 

If it was a cliché, shouldn't I have seen it more often?

[Former_Fiend]

How is - What? Solas is one of the best-written, best built-up, and most realistic villains I've seen - ever. More importantly, his relationship to the Inquisitor is one of the best hero-villain relationships I've ever seen as well.

 

If it was a cliché, shouldn't I have seen it more often?

 

Firstly, Solas is a complete rehash of the last main villain they had. He is Corypheus Mrk 2. He has the exact same motivation, the exact same plan, the exact same goal.

 

Slumbered for thousands of years, woke up, found the world a shell of it's former self largely as a result of their own actions - actions that saw them vilified in myth - resolved to restore their respective societies to their former glory by breaching the fade and using the power they gain from doing it to reshape the world. 

 

The only difference is that Corypheus was less prone to bouts of self pity.

 

Secondly, the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor is nothing special. I've plaid it with full approval and the friendship never stuck out to me. I wouldn't rate it as one of the better ones in DAI, never mind the series, never mind the whole of fiction. Solas has always been very "meh" for me - a rare miss on Weekes' part, as he's written several of my favorite characters from DA and ME. Trespasser made him more interesting, generally in his parallels with Corypheus, but that wasn't a difficult task.

 

And like I said before, that relationship is entirely optional in the first place. It's completely possible to go through the whole of DAI and only speak to Solas three times. When you first meet him in Haven, when he leads you to Skyhold, and at the end when he leaves. Aside from that, if you don't recruit Cole, you're never required to speak with him again throughout the game. 

 

So that's the railroading aspect; the fact that our character is has not choice but to take Solas' actions personally despite the fact that we can go the whole game without becoming emotionally invested in him.

 

As for the cliche aspect, here's the powerful antagonist, you are his designated arch-enemy and worthy opponent that is the only one allowed to defeat him because plot.