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[NoForgiveness]

Solas the same as Cory? Ppffftt that's a good one. Thanks for the laugh.

[midnight tea]

Firstly, Solas is a complete rehash of the last main villain they had. He is Corypheus Mrk 2. He has the exact same motivation, the exact same plan, the exact same goal.

 

*sigh* It's not a rehash - there are fully intentional parallels between them, just like there are some intentional parallels between, say, Solas and Leliana. Or the fact that many organizations throughout Thedas have been undone by their own hubris. And there are many other smaller or bigger things between characters or elements of the world that contain such parallels, in something of a fractal-like pattern.

 

This has nothing to do with a 'rehash'. It's a storytelling device, meant to reverberate a theme, add perspective or tell us more about specific things or characters by drawing similarities between them. And personally I quite enjoy it.

 

There are as many similarities as there are differences between Corypheus and Solas - the intentions are similar, but the men behind them are not the same, hence we actually get the chance to actually redeem Solas.

 

Plus, how interesting is it the irony that Coryhpeus himself - a rather straightforward villain, as well as unwitting pawn in Solas's hands at first - through his meddling and unexpected immortality actually gave the world another chance? That we actually had a much more dangerous threat between us, and we were able to befriend him and perhaps change his mind?

 

Just because there are similarities doesn't mean that the story will follow the same format. We already have good enough reasons to think it won't, with the way things played out.

[Former_Fiend]

*sigh* It's not a rehash - there are fully intentional parallels between them, just like there are intentional parallels between, say, Solas and Leliana. Or the fact that many organizations throughout Thedas have been undone by their own hubris. Or many other smaller or bigger things between characters or elements of the world, in a fractal-like pattern.

 

This has nothing to do with a 'rehash'. It's a storytelling device, meant to reverberate a theme, add perspective or tell us more about specific things or characters by drawing similarities between them. And personally I quite enjoy it.

 

There are as many similarities as there are differences between Corypheus and Solas - the intentions are similar, but the men behind them are not the same, hence we actually get the chance to actually redeem Solas.

 

Plus, how interesting is it the irony that Coryhpeus himself - a rather straightforward villain - through his meddling and unexpected immortality actually gave the world another chance? That we actually had a much more dangerous threat between us, and we were able to befriend him and perhaps change his mind?

 

Just because there are similarities doesn't mean that the story will follow the same format. We already know it won't, with the way things played out.

 

I admit, rehash was the wrong word. I know fully well that the parallels are fully intentional. But still. Doing this with the Inquisitor again... just reeks of "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I cannot force myself to be interested in that.

 

Especially given that between the two of them, I really find Corypheus to be the more sympathetic one. 

 

Give me a new character to act as a lens, so even if the parallels remain obvious to me, they aren't obvious to the character, and I can see some interesting ways to play that. 

I can't think of a single way they can play this with the Inquisitor that would make the game worth my money.

[NoForgiveness]

Plus, how interesting is it the irony that Coryhpeus himself - a rather straightforward villain, as well as unwitting pawn in Solas's hands at first - through his meddling and unexpected immortality actually gave the world another chance? That we actually had a much more dangerous threat between us, and we were able to befriend him and perhaps change his mind?

I find it interesting they both underestimate each other. Cory thinks he can just take the orb and use it for his means. Solas thinks he can just use Cory for his means. They both end up making the other fumble.

[midnight tea]

I admit, rehash was the wrong word. I know fully well that the parallels are fully intentional. But still. Doing this with the Inquisitor again... just reeks of "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I cannot force myself to be interested in that.

 

Well, it would be something akin to "same old boss" (even though it wouldn't be, not truly) if we're meant to deal with him mostly through a new protagonist, wouldn't it?

 

Yet, we've got something different built already through Inquisition. Plus, Solas's plan doesn't seem as straightforward as Corypheus. Aside from things we don't yet know, he wants to save his people and not just install himself as a god after a failed trip to the Golden/Black City. Both his backstory and motivations remain far more complex. 

 

Give me a new character to act as a lens, so even if the parallels remain obvious to me, they aren't obvious to the character, and I can see some interesting ways to play that. 

I can't think of a single way they can play this with the Inquisitor that would make the game worth my money.

 

In what conceivable way Solas wouldn't appear more similar to Corypheus to a new character than it is to old one???

 

This will be not a "new lens", it will be "old lens" all over again - a newbie hero tries to take down a threat to the world they don't really know that much about; not much of a personal connection or anything, with previous hero having more of a relationship with an antagonist than the current one.

 

Like... seriously. You're talking about being frustrated with a rehash, yet seemingly what you want is... a rehash.

[Former_Fiend]

What I want is not to be bound to the Inquisitor and their values anymore.

 

What I want is for them to take another shot at establishing a relationship that makes me care about Solas instead of continuing one that has failed on that count for me. 

 

What I want is to play a character who isn't on a first name basis with the Divine. Especially not a character who could potentially be nothing but a dog on the Divine's leash.

 

What I want is to play a character who has no connection to the Inquisition at all. Preferably no connection to southern Thedas at all.

 

And what I want is to play a character who still has both arms.

[Nefla]

I can't think of a single way they can play this with the Inquisitor that would make the game worth my money.

...and I can't think of a single way they can ditch the inquisitor or relegate her to the role of desk jockey NPC, randomly shove in some new and completely irrelevant and unconnected character and have it be worth my money.

[midnight tea]

I find it interesting they both underestimate each other. Cory thinks he can just take the orb and use it for his means. Solas thinks he can just use Cory for his means. They both end up making the other fumble.

 

Which is one of reason why parallels between them and the overall dynamic - as well as copious amounts of delicious irony - it produces is interesting.

 

Corypheus might have been a pawn through most of his life (after all he wanted to enter the Golden City because he thought that's what his god wanted from him, and we're not even sure if it was actually his god that whispered to him) and his form and mind twisted with Blight made his motivations (though he still remained a really good schemer, almost destroying the South with its own templars, mages, Wardens and a demon army!) to be tinted with madness and arrogance, but he actually still remains a far more interesting and complex cog in the story that many seem to appreciate, though not necessarily in ways that are obvious.

 

Plus... I really can't ever be mad at Bioware for basically making Cory something of a 'red herring' in all his Blighted and relatively straightforward villainy, when it actually gave us a chance to create such interesting dynamic between protagonist and the actual antagonist, who at the same time is the creator of the Veil itself.

 

In fact, I can only tip my hat for BW for being pretty bold with what they did - because on the surface this indeed looks like a rather simple story: the 'devil' appears, hero has to stop him and we do - hooray! ... Only if you look under the surface, it turns out that the story itself is several times more complex than what it appears to be, and the more a person is dedicated to dig, the more they can find.

 

How can I not enjoy this???

[NoForgiveness]

And what I want is to play a character who still has both arms.

Only p.ussies have both arms.

[Former_Fiend]

...and I can't think of a single way they can ditch the inquisitor or relegate her to the role of desk jockey NPC, randomly shove in some new and completely irrelevant and unconnected character and have it be worth my money.

 

Well, we can't all get what we want.

 

I'm prepared to accept that and walk away from the series if they have the Inquisitor as the PC again.

[midnight tea]

What I want is not to be bound to the Inquisitor and their values anymore.

 

Their values depend entirely on you, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Besides - since we're standing on the brink of world destruction, what kind of OTHER values or motivations do you expect a hero to have than those related to opposing the aforementioned world destruction?

 

What do you even expect to get? I don't get it. I fact, the new heroes values and motivations will likely be even less varied or more shallow than those of Inquisitor, since they lack their insight into both world affairs and the mind of the antagonist.

 

What I want is for them to take another shot at establishing a relationship that makes me care about Solas instead of continuing one that has failed on that count for me. 

 

It has failed on that count to you. You're entitled to your feelings on the matter, but it's rather obvious that quite a few people feel quite differently. And even if they don't, they recognize where the story is going with this, from a pure storytelling perspective.

 

Also - in what possible way do you think they can take a shot of establishing even half of what we got with Solas in Inquisition? We'd likely find out more about his motivations and perhaps find new ways to sympathize with him (or not) through DA4 (be it with new protag or sections with Inky), but while it's not impossible to establish a relationship of a new protag with Solas, it will either unnecessarily waste everybody's (devs and players) time, while it will never be in any way anything that can even remotely resemble anything in Inquisition, both because the cat's out of the bag, and because in DAI Solas was Inquisitor's companion and advisor.

 

What I want is to play a character who isn't on a first name basis with the Divine. Especially not a character who could potentially be nothing but a dog on the Divine's leash.

 

...Oh, but a dog on Inquisition's or someone else's leash is somehow different?

Besides - how welcome a change of pace and break from typical format for a protagonist would be, if they actually began (or made some space for in the story) as someone important and informed of the matters of world or objective they're after, instead of scruffy underdog most RPGs start with?

 

What I want is to play a character who has no connection to the Inquisition at all. Preferably no connection to southern Thedas at all.

 

Yeah, well... the possibility of that happening are very small indeed. It's not that I can't see BW do that, but it would make absolutely no sense with the story how it is  set up now. Why make a rather unnecessary 'side-step', while the overall story seems to tighten itself?

 

 

And what I want is to play a character who still has both arms.

 

I can only shake my head at that sentiment - not only playing a disabled person would be unique for an RPG (and BW has quite a reputation for being pretty bold with how inclusive they are with their games and characters; in fact Iron Bull was supposed to have no arm at first), personally I can't get any more excited at the prospect of all the cool new prosthetic magic/lyrium/awesome-infused arms! 

[Former_Fiend]

I play warriors who use two handed weapons. That has certain requirements. And even with Bull's early concept art, he still had both arms, he was just missing a hand. The Inquisitor loses the arm up to the elbow.

 

As for the magic prosthetic, the Inquisitor was already enough of an over powered special snow flake character, even by Bioware standards, that playing them was on the edges of tolerable. Slapping a lyrium hand on them might actually induce me to vomit. 

[Nefla]

Well, we can't all get what we want.

 

I'm prepared to accept that and walk away from the series if they have the Inquisitor as the PC again.

Likewise if the Inquisitor isn't the PC again. My affection for and faith in the series is already shattered. I want to love BioWare again but them throwing away this prime opportunity they've built up would just tell me that they're just pulling stuff out of their butts. At this point for me, leaving the series behind wouldn't be a great loss.

[Former_Fiend]

Likewise if the Inquisitor isn't the PC again. My affection for and faith in the series is already shattered. I want to love BioWare again but them throwing away this prime opportunity they've built up would just tell me that they're just pulling stuff out of their butts. At this point for me, leaving the series behind wouldn't be a great loss.

 

Thing is, I enjoyed the hell out of Inquisition and have a considerable amount of faith left in Bioware, and a considerable love for the Dragon Age setting.

 

I just want to move on to something different. And for all the faith I have in Bioware, I know there is absolutely nothing they could do that could make playing as the Inquisitor again an enjoyable experience for me.

 

Fortunately I have a back up; the tabletop game. If the Inquisitor is the pc again, I'll just make Solas the big bad of a tabletop campaign and run my friends completely inquisition-free characters through it.

[Nefla]

Thing is, I enjoyed the hell out of Inquisition and have a considerable amount of faith left in Bioware, and a considerable love for the Dragon Age setting.

 

I just want to move on to something different. And for all the faith I have in Bioware, I know there is absolutely nothing they could do that could make playing as the Inquisitor again an enjoyable experience for me.

 

Fortunately I have a back up; the tabletop game. If the Inquisitor is the pc again, I'll just make Solas the big bad of a tabletop campaign and run my friends completely inquisition-free characters through it.

For the most part I disliked DA:I though there were moments and elements that I enjoyed. I have to wonder though, why would you want Solas as the villain? You said you never felt connected to him.

 

The inquisitor has a boring and limited personality IMO but if they can't fix that through giving us more options with the inquisitor as a PC again, why would a new protagonist be any different?

[Former_Fiend]

For the most part I disliked DA:I though there were moments and elements that I enjoyed. I have to wonder though, why would you want Solas as the villain? You said you never felt connected to him.

 

The inquisitor has a boring and limited personality IMO but if they can't fix that through giving us more options with the inquisitor as a PC again, why would a new protagonist be any different?

 

I never felt a connection between him and my Inquisitor. But I am intrigued by the plot and the fact is, he is the big bad as of right now. I'd get that out of the way before moving on to wholly original stories. 

 

For me, the Inquisitor is always going to be an agent of order, preservation and maintaining the status quo; everything I hope the next game is not. I want DA4 to be about tearing down the establishment, setting fire to the status quo, and all and all, being an agent of change, not order. 

 

Aside from that, the Inquisitor got too big, accomplished too much. I want to spread out the accomplishments among different characters. History is full of many great people shaping the world. I don't want too much of Thedas' history to be shaped by any one individual. 

[midnight tea]

I play warriors who use two handed weapons. That has certain requirements. And even with Bull's early concept art, he still had both arms, he was just missing a hand. The Inquisitor loses the arm up to the elbow.

 

No they don't - they lack as much arm as Bull does - a hand and about half of the forearm. It's visible on many epilogue cards, plus the sleeve of their uniform folds around the length of half of forearm below the elbow.

 

 

As for the magic prosthetic, the Inquisitor was already enough of an over powered special snow flake character, even by Bioware standards, that playing them was on the edges of tolerable. Slapping a lyrium hand on them might actually induce me to vomit. 

 

.... So you admit that they can be OP, and for you it's a problem, just like lack of hand is a problem... but you don't see how these things can be reconciled in case of Inky? Not having a hand will probably make them less OP, at least in the beginning, when they have to re-adjust to new fighting style (if you add to that the possibility of upgrading the arm, the prosthetic might actually grow in complexity and reach new levels of badassery only close to an endgame).

 

Also - considering that we've now entered the realm of demigods and gods going against each other WHAT ELSE do you expect next protagonist to be, other than "an over-powered special snowflake"???

 

You're fooling yourself that we're going to get anyone less 'speshul' in that regard, even if the new protags story will effectively be smaller that that of DAI.

 

In fact - you're basically asking for EVEN MORE 'special snowflake' than Inquisitor is, since you think they can 'realistically' go against Solas possibly without any knowledge or personal connection Inquisitor had with him...

[Former_Fiend]

I think you just hold Solas on a much higher pedestal than I do.

[GoldenGail3]

Hm.. No, I don't ever want to see the Inquisitor ever again. I really didn't care for the Inquisitor whatsoever.

[Patchwork]

I think it's very possible to have a new pc and let the Inquisitor play an active part in taking Solas down (companion Harding/war table/cut scenes etc) but I doubt BW is going to stray from their typical narrative. They always have one hero who during their tenure is the most important person in the universe. 

[midnight tea]

I think you just hold Solas on a much higher pedestal than I do.

 

I do like him as a character, obviously. But I'm not really sure why you think I put him on any sort of pedestal, when most points I make are logical conclusion drawn from the way story has been told so far.

 

Whether people like him or not, Solas is a pivotal character of the franchise. His reveal has being hinted since DAO - even most prophecies seem to circle around him.

 

And unlike Corypheus, Solas doesn't appear to be an easy controlled pawn (even if Cory eventually had his measure of own agency throughout story) who had fallen victim to the corrupting influence of the Blight, old Gods and whoever there is. Whether we discover other players or his relationship to, say, Mythal and how much she herself has to say in all this, he's an actor and not someone largely acted upon.

 

He fought and overthrew god-like creatures once already. He created the Veil, which basically means the creation of Thedas as we know in the story so far. He knows the secrets of this world probably not that many beings do. And by that fact alone, anyone who passes through his life and leaves an impression on him will become important to the overall story - it also means that either his downfall or redemption very likely won't just be something relegated to a "yet another typical villain for yet another chapter" treatment.

[Smudjygirl]

What's really interesting is that the polls i have seen have a 50/50 split between those who want the Inquisitor back for Solas, and those who don't. They're going to have to be really smart with how they handle the next game.

[ESTAQ99]

Please no the Inquisitor again!!! Such a boring, bland, half cooked character and now crippled!!! on top of it. Bring the next one. Make him/her awesome. Just kill Baldy during the first part of the next game or imprison him with the rest of his fellow elvhen gods and move to the next chapter of DA.

[Former_Fiend]

I do like him as a character, obviously. But I'm not really sure why you think I "put him on any sort of pedestal", when most points I make are logical conclusion drawn from the way story has been told so far.

 

Whether people like him or not, Solas is a pivotal character of the franchise. His reveal has being hinted at since DAO - even most prophecies seem to circle around him.

 

And unlike Corypheus, Solas doesn't appear to be an easy controlled pawn (even if Cory eventually had his measure of own agency throughout story) who had fallen victim to the corrupting influence of the Blight, old Gods and whoever there is. Whether we discover other players or his relationship to, say, Mythal and how much she herself has to say in all this, he's an actor and not someone largely acted upon.

 

He fought and overthrew gold-like creatures once already. He created the Veil, which basically means the creation of Thedas as we know in the story so far. He knows the secrets of this world probably not that many beings do. And by that fact alone, anyone who passes through his life and leaves an impression on him will in itself become important to the overall story - it also means that either his downfall or redemption very likely won't just be something relegated to a "yet another typical villain for yet another chapter" treatment.

 

See, I see him as a maniac, bent on mass murder and suffering from a combined Messiah and Martyr complexes. He deserves to be relegated to "yet another typical villain" territory rather than have his delusions of grandeur indulged. 

 

Edit: Aside from my reasonings against the Inquisitor, this is one of the main reasons I don't want the Inquisitor to be the one to face off with Solas; Solas wants it, and as a result, I feel compelled to deny him.

[BansheeOwnage]

Hm.. No, I don't ever want to see the Inquisitor ever again. I really didn't care for the Inquisitor whatsoever.

Man, I just made 2 comments on the last page about how liking the Inquisitor is irrelevant to the current debate. Apparently that wasn't enough.

 

 

I can only shake my had at that sentiment - not only playing a disabled person would be unique for an RPG (and BW has quite a reputation for being pretty bold with how inclusive they are with their games and characters; in fact Iron Bull was supposed to have no arm at first), personally I can't get any more excited at the prospect of all the cool new prosthetic magic/lyrium/awesome-infused arms! 

Agreed, it could be awesome! Both for something truly new and inspiring (disabled protagonist showing they're still awesome), and for the gameplay possibilities. I really want to draw my Inquisitor with a lyrium-infused prosthetic now... Oh, and it should have a name, like Bianca or Mjolnir! Possibly something text-based we can pick, or pre-determined so we can hear it. Either way. Ha, sorry. Getting carried away

 

 

In fact, I can only tip my hat for BW for being pretty bold with what they did - because on the surface this indeed looks like a rather simple story: the 'devil' appears, hero has to stop him and we do - hooray! ... Only if you look under the surface, it turns out that the story itself is several times more complex than what it appears to be, and the more a person is dedicated to dig, the more they can find.

 

How can I not enjoy this???

It's more impressive once you realize they planned this since the beginning and may have originally wanted Trespasser to be part of the main game. Corypheus' defeat being anti-climactic was intentional! Probably. In some ways, anyway.

 

 

And what I want is to play a character who still has both arms.

I'm sorry, I'm tired, so I'll just have to respond with: