1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Frankly I just think the execution was poor if the entire plan was to get us involved with the idea of Solas as our arch rival. They could have made him more involved, had more conversations with him be automatic instead of player prompted.

 

And/or, they could have given us the option to take the whole thing less personally at the end. Instead of just "I'm going to kill Solas!", "I'll have to stop you.", they could have put it more like "You need to be stopped."

 

And a large part of it is just personal preference. I find the whole "I'm the only one allowed to defeat you" nonsense to be a terrible cliche, and I don't want to be forced to play it straight. 

But...anyone we play will be "the only one allowed to defeat" Solas. I agree that the execution was poor in DA:I (I felt that way about most of the game) but there's a ton of potential there. Even if you only had the mandatory three conversations with Solas (and one in Trespasser) and just ignored him the rest of the game, that's four more interactions than a new protagonist would have. Even if you or your inquisitor feel nothing about Solas and don't care that he was responsible for everything, lied the whole time, manipulated you, etc...they'd still want to stop him for the simple reason that he's trying to destroy the world and that's the only reason a new protagonist has as well. Why would stopping someone in order to save the world (new protagonist) be any more interesting than trying to redeem a friend or trying to kill a rival who betrayed you?

 

The new protagonist each game was fine and dandy until they started continuing storylines from one game to the next. You can't keep the same storyline, the same antagonist, and yet randomly put in some new protagonist with no relevance. It doesn't make sense. If DA continues, I think BioWare should stop doing "save the world" stories and start doing smaller scale, linear stories so that each game can be completely separate from the last.

[Former_Fiend]

But...anyone we play will be "the only one allowed to defeat" Solas. I agree that the execution was poor in DA:I (I felt that way about most of the game) but there's a ton of potential there. Even if you only had the mandatory three conversations with Solas (and one in Trespasser) and just ignored him the rest of the game, that's four more interactions than a new protagonist would have. Even if you or your inquisitor feel nothing about Solas and don't care that he was responsible for everything, lied the whole time, manipulated you, etc...they'd still want to stop him for the simple reason that he's trying to destroy the world and that's the only reason a new protagonist has as well. Why would stopping someone in order to save the world (new protagonist) be any more interesting than trying to redeem a friend or trying to kill a rival who betrayed you?

 

The new protagonist each game was fine and dandy until they started continuing storylines from one game to the next. You can't keep the same storyline, the same antagonist, and yet randomly put in some new person with no relevance. It doesn't make sense. If DA continues, I think BioWare should stop doing "save the world" stories and start doing smaller scale, linear stories so that each game can be completely separate from the last.

 

There's a difference between being the one to defeat the big bad, being the only person who is capable of defeating the big bad, and a situation where it's declared "I am the only one allowed to defeat you". When the people involved, hero and villain, mark each other as arch rivals and declare the whole thing a duel between each other... I just check out. 

 

Thedas doesn't give a flying crap that Solas betrayed, manipulated, and used the Inquisitor. Thedas only cares that Solas is trying to kill everyone to restore something that doesn't exist anymore. I cannot abide the rest of the world sitting by and letting the Inquisitor be the one to deal with Solas because "that makes for such a good story!" And if everyone else tries and fails, that's just felatiating the Inquisitor and Solas to an extent that I, again, cannot abide.  

[BansheeOwnage]

The fans are not in agreement on what they want. I don't want the Inquisitor back.

When did I say they were in agreement? I simply said it would be better for Bioware to listen to them than people who may not even play the game or like it. They shouldn't compromise what they think will make a good story because of a potential new audience and they shouldn't compromise it because - to quote Dorian - "That's how it's always been done. Excellent reasoning."

 

Which is a general rule, and doesn't only apply to this debate.

 

That's not how media works. they have to cater to current fan and gain future fans.That's how they get more money. Any product that services only as a niche only servives by ether upping the cost or uping the amount of content. And they always lose fans over time.

No, it really is how media works. If people (in general) cared about popping into a series without having seen the first part, not nearly so much money would be made, and sequels would never make more money than the originals. My point is that if DA4 has the Inquisitor as the protagonist, it won't stop any new players from buying it; having a new protagonist won't sell better. Those potential customers don't care, so I'm saying Bioware shouldn't take that into account when they decide how they'll write the story.

 

I think I just don't like the idea of the Inquisitor being shoehorned into being Solas's archnemesis even if they plainly DGAF. It's entirely possible to have a few token conversations him, gain a little approval and lose a little approval, and end up on entirely neutral ground. Making it into an ~it's personal~ face off means next to nothing if you left him in the rotunda the entire game. In my most recent playthrough, Solas is like... a bologna sandwich. He's just there.

Too late. The Inquisitor is Solas' nemesis as of Trespasser. It's personal as of Trespasser. So even if you don't like that, it doesn't make a difference to DA4. It's already done.

[Tamyn]

 

 But it doesn't make sense for the Inquisitor to go "hmm, Solas is going to kill me soon - I'll let someone else deal with that!"

 

[actionhero112]

 

 

The new protagonist each game was fine and dandy until they started continuing storylines from one game to the next. You can't keep the same storyline, the same antagonist, and yet randomly put in some new protagonist with no relevance. It doesn't make sense. If DA continues, I think BioWare should stop doing "save the world" stories and start doing smaller scale, linear stories so that each game can be completely separate from the last.

 

What did we do with Cory?

 

We took an issue that was originally Hawke's, introduced a new protagonist and had them deal with it.

 

We did this for both of the issues presented by DA2, the mage templar war and cory. 

I mean, doesn't that fly in the face of that argument? 

 

Both Solas as an antagonist, and Corypheus, were introduced in DLC. They are largely comparable. 

[leaguer of one]

 

 

No, it really is how media works. If people (in general) cared about popping into a series without having seen the first part, not nearly so much money would be made, and sequels would never make more money than the originals. My point is that if DA4 has the Inquisitor as the protagonist, it won't stop any new players from buying it; having a new protagonist really won't sell better. Those potential customers don't care, so I'm saying Bioware shouldn't take that into account when they decide how they'll write the story.

 

 

Yes, it is. sorry but that's how it totally is. Sorry, but you have no Idea how many people pop in in during the second and third part of the story. Heck, Me3 is an example of the being that most of the people who played it was their first ME game. Same case with ME2. Heck, my first Star war movie I've seen was Empire strikes back. Sorry, but it is totally the case.

[leaguer of one]

Why do people see Solas and the Inquisitor as arch rivials which one has to defeat the other. Can't it be like professor x and Magneto?

[Iakus]

Why do people see Solas and the Inquisitor as arch rivials which one has to defeat the other. Can't it be like professor x and Magneto?

But, wait, Solas is bald and my Inquisitor wears a funny looking helmet...

[actionhero112]

Yo Obi Wan/Yoda didn't kill Vader/Emporer bruh. We had Luke do it. Pass the torch. 

[Homeboundcrib]

What did we do with Cory?

We took an issue that was originally Hawke's, introduced a new protagonist and had them deal with it.

We did this for both of the issues presented by DA2, the mage templar war and cory.
I mean, doesn't that fly in the face of that argument?

Both Solas as an antagonist, and Corypheus, were introduced in DLC. They are largely comparable.

The only reason why that happnend though was because DA:2 didn't do that well. Hawke was meant to be the inqusitor, also a lot of people pushed for race selection that was another reason why.

[ESTAQ99]

Just kill the freaking inquisitor in the first part of the next game and bring on the new protagonist. Then, they can make the new pc to go in searching for the inqui's arm to burying it with the the rest of the body as a side quest (but please, make it with some cinematic scenes and no chards collecting in between).

[Nefla]

There's a difference between being the one to defeat the big bad, being the only person who is capable of defeating the big bad, and a situation where it's declared "I am the only one allowed to defeat you". When the people involved, hero and villain, mark each other as arch rivals and declare the whole thing a duel between each other... I just check out. 

 

Thedas doesn't give a flying crap that Solas betrayed, manipulated, and used the Inquisitor. Thedas only cares that Solas is trying to kill everyone to restore something that doesn't exist anymore. I cannot abide the rest of the world sitting by and letting the Inquisitor be the one to deal with Solas because "that makes for such a good story!" And if everyone else tries and fails, that's just felatiating the Inquisitor and Solas to an extent that I, again, cannot abide.  

There's nothing saying the inquisitor is the only one capable of defeating Solas, he's just the one with the strongest personal motivation to do so. The rest of Thedas might not even be aware of the threat Solas poses. It would be cool if the inquisitor's claims were dismissed as a personal vendetta and he was disgraced because of it. (that, the missing arm, and going undercover in Tevinter would be a great way to start at square one)

 

With a new protagonist all you have is "the world needs saving so I'll save it" that alone is not interesting to me in the slightest. The lack of personal motivation for the protagonist to stop the villain was one of the reasons I felt DA:I's story was very weak.

[Nefla]

What did we do with Cory?

 

We took an issue that was originally Hawke's, introduced a new protagonist and had them deal with it.

 

We did this for both of the issues presented by DA2, the mage templar war and cory. 

I mean, doesn't that fly in the face of that argument? 

 

Both Solas as an antagonist, and Corypheus, were introduced in DLC. They are largely comparable. 

And to me that was a huge mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

[Homeboundcrib]

There's nothing saying the inquisitor is the only one capable of defeating Solas, he's just the one with the strongest personal motivation to do so. The rest of Thedas might not even be aware of the threat Solas poses. It would be cool if the inquisitor's claims were dismissed as a personal vendetta and he was disgraced because of it. (that, the missing arm, and going undercover in Tevinter would be a great way to start at square one)

With a new protagonist all you have is "the world needs saving so I'll save it" that alone is not interesting to me in the slightest. The lack of personal motivation for the protagonist to stop the villain was one of the reasons I felt DA:I's story was very weak.

I think that's why most of us who want the inqusitior back is simply because it will be the same old,new hero saves the day and don't get me wrong that's great sometimes but this is starting to draw away the story. A story that could be explored so far there is so much motivation and personal involvement, so much drive that I don't see how a new hero would have.

[actionhero112]

The only reason why that happnend though was because DA:2 didn't do that well. Hawke was meant to be the inqusitor, also a lot of people pushed for race selection that was another reason why.

 

uh?

 

dev confirmation of Hawke being written to fill the inquisitor role? 

 

 

And to me that was a huge mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

 

Fair enough.

 

To me it's more about the fact the writers have done it before and in all likelyhood will do it again. 

 

Curiosity, how do you feel about the intro to DA4 being the inquisitor confronting Solas, and then a join him/get killed by him deal.

[Former_Fiend]

There's nothing saying the inquisitor is the only one capable of defeating Solas, he's just the one with the strongest personal motivation to do so. The rest of Thedas might not even be aware of the threat Solas poses. It would be cool if the inquisitor's claims were dismissed as a personal vendetta and he was disgraced because of it. (that, the missing arm, and going undercover in Tevinter would be a great way to start at square one)

 

With a new protagonist all you have is "the world needs saving so I'll save it" that alone is not interesting to me in the slightest. The lack of personal motivation for the protagonist to stop the villain was one of the reasons I felt DA:I's story was very weak.

 

It wouldn't be terribly difficult to give the new character a personal motivation. It is something they failed at in DAI, hoping that we just fall into the "do the right thing" mentality. 

 

And still, "the world needs saving so I'll save it" and "the world needs saving because this guy I talked to a couple times wants to blow it up" aren't terribly removed in the realm of motivations.

[mistermutiny1989]

And that reason was mostly mocking.
 
Seriously, not just no, but hell no.

  

No. The story is about thedas. not one character.

Everyone's experience and attachment to their protagonists and Thedas world states are different. The op seemed to come across as if to say that having new protagonists was eluding his or her immersion with the Dragon Age saga. A trilogy for a set protagonist would be an ideal solution. Let's put the words space and Jesus aside because that seems to be touchy for you kiddies and look at it objectively.

These keyboard warriors saying No to me means about as much as what I flushed down the loo this morning. Hahaha!

[Nefla]

And still, "the world needs saving so I'll save it" and "the world needs saving because this guy I talked to a couple times wants to blow it up" aren't terribly removed in the realm of motivations.

The difference might be small for someone who purposefully ignored Solas, but the personal connection version is still better than the "random peon falls off a haywagon and becomes the new hero because the world needs saving." Besides, most of us didn't purposefully ignore Solas, and pretend he didn't exist. You might not care that the breach was his fault and that he betrayed and manipulated you, made a fool of you, but I care a lot. Having to resolve that plotline as random Orlesian # 3,174 would just be horrible.

[Homeboundcrib]

uh?

dev confirmation of Hawke being written to fill the inquisitor role?



Fair enough.

To me it's more about the fact the writers have done it before and in all likelyhood will do it again.

Curiosity, how do you feel about the intro to DA4 being the inquisitor confronting Solas, and then a join him/get killed by him deal.

I don't know if there is dev Comformation, but I think they were drop early in development, throughout the game you get hints that they were, also there was a push for race section.

[Nefla]

Fair enough.

 

To me it's more about the fact the writers have done it before and in all likelyhood will do it again. 

 

Curiosity, how do you feel about the intro to DA4 being the inquisitor confronting Solas, and then a join him/get killed by him deal.

What do you mean? Like in the Intro the inquisitor kills Solas? Or the inquisitor and some new character kill Solas together? Or Solas kills the inquisitor? No matter what the scenario, if DA4 is about stopping Solas I wouldn't want a different protagonist (not even a dual protagonist situation) and I wouldn't want the inquisitor to become an NPC.

[mistermutiny1989]

Subjectively speaking ... I'm not right or wrong in saying this but on the key of Solas vs Quizzy I believe that it's not enough of a plot to lay out an entire game but rather a small portion or a prologue to the beginning of the next Dragon Age. I would hope that Solas succeeds in his plight and that it may cost him his life as the Evanuris are unshackled and your new protagonist is left to put the world back as it was and defeat the Evanuris himself. I also had played with the idea the new protagonist would actually be one of the Evanuris but not realise it till near end game but the whole having to be an elf thing wouldn't have worked... But then again... Are all the Evanuris ancient elven mages? We know too little for now.

[Former_Fiend]

The difference might be small for someone who purposefully ignored Solas, but the personal connection version is still better than the "random peon falls off a haywagon and becomes the new hero because the world needs saving." Besides, most of us didn't purposefully ignore Solas, and pretend he didn't exist. You might not care that the breach was his fault and that he betrayed and manipulated you, made a fool of you, but I care a lot. Having to resolve that plotline as random Orlesian # 3,174 would just be horrible.

 

As a point, I didn't ignore Solas. I actually maxed out approval with him. My Inquisitor would care quite a bit. I don't care that my Inquisitor cares, is the difference. The Inquisitor's hurt feelings mean less than nothing to me or Random Tevinter #4713, who I would prefer lops off Solas's head.

[Nefla]

 

As a point, I didn't ignore Solas. I actually maxed out approval with him. My Inquisitor would care quite a bit. I don't care that my Inquisitor cares, is the difference. The Inquisitor's hurt feelings mean less than nothing to me or Random Tevinter #4713, who I would prefer lops off Solas's head.

What makes you think you'd care about Random Tevinter's feelings any more than the inquisitor's?

[Former_Fiend]

What makes you think you'd care about Random Tevinter's feelings any more than the inquisitor's?

 

I might not. Couldn't care about them less, though, so it's worth a shot they try again.

[leaguer of one]

But, wait, Solas is bald and my Inquisitor wears a funny looking helmet...

But the quis is the one crippled.

 

Ok, then bizzaro Magneto and Professor X. Happy?