I'm still mostly convinced that Solas' plotline is going to end with him failing to take down the veil but doing so in a way that releases one or more of the Evanuris, who will then take over as the big bads for the next game.
I don't like it. Too predictable. I want more plot twists, but only ones that make sense.
I'm still mostly convinced that Solas' plotline is going to end with him failing to take down the veil but doing so in a way that releases one or more of the Evanuris, who will then take over as the big bads for the next game.
And then we slay the seeds of the Sun.
Not really.
It's not a direct parallel to that trope, obviously. The Inquisitor can be one of four races and whatever ethnicity the player chooses, but they are, culturally, the product of Southern Thedas and the values there-of. Them going to Tevinter and imposing or injecting those values into the nation is a very different thing than someone from the region affecting change from within.
You're making the same arguments against a random, unrelated foreigner coming to Tevinter to suddenly solve its' problems that I was making against a random, unrelated hero coming in to finish the inquisitor's story. 
I'd wait for it to be in the bargain bin; I'm a patient man.
But seriously, everything on that list of predictions is the opposite of what they need to do. Dorian can suffice just fine as an NPC and can serve in that roll just fine even if he wasn't recruited by the Inquisitor. The Qunari/Tevinter war is so much more important to me than anything to do with Solas that I cannot adequately put it into words. The PC not being from Tevinter would be a huge mistake. And us working for the Inquisition... I think I'm going to be sick.
Thank you for pitching the absolute worse case scenario for DA4.
I'm not pitching anything, I'm basing this on clues in the game and BioWare's past actions. They thought "everyone blew up offscreen before the game started but you can clean up some stragglers" was a good resolution to the mage/templar war that was only about to start at the end of DA2 (I wish DA:I had been about that war rather than the generic and boring Corypheus). They always bring back a companion (which is something I have never liked) and they made extra sure to tell you that Dorian was back in Tevinter and being all important and changing things. Even if you romanced him and beg him to stay, he still ends up in the same situation. At the end of Trespasser they made it extra clear that the inquisition had its' sights set on Tevinter and normally I'd say that meant the inquisitor would be the next protagonist but I get the impression that BioWare "crippled" him so that they'd have an excuse as to why he wouldn't be the protagonist anymore. They'll likely make the inquisitor some crappy quest giving NPC and the "physically capable" inquisition agent from somewhere other than Tevinter will be the hero.
Not really.
Thank you for pitching the absolute worse case scenario for DA4.
Mmm... what you've been suggesting, in this thread and the others on this subject, is probably worse... maybe..
I don't like it. Too predictable. I want more plot twists, but only ones that make sense.
Come on. Hubris is the sin of pride. Which is what Solas' name means. That sin has to pop up.
You're making the same arguments against a random, unrelated foreigner coming to Tevinter to suddenly solve its' problems that I was making against a random, unrelated hero coming in to finish the inquisitor's story.
I'm not pitching anything, I'm basing this on clues in the game and BioWare's past actions. They thought "everyone blew up offscreen before the game started but you can clean up some stragglers" was a good resolution to the mage/templar war that was only about to start at the end of DA2 (I wish DA:I had been about that war rather than the generic and boring Corypheus). They always bring back a companion (which is something I have never liked) and they made extra sure to tell you that Dorian was back in Tevinter and being all important and changing things. Even if you romanced him and beg him to stay, he still ends up in the same situation. At the end of Trespasser they made it extra clear that the inquisition had its' sights set on Tevinter and normally I'd say that meant the inquisitor would be the next protagonist but I get the impression that BioWare "crippled" him so that they'd have an excuse as to why he wouldn't be the protagonist anymore. They'll likely make the inquisitor some crappy quest giving NPC and the "physically capable" inquisition agent from somewhere other than Tevinter will be the hero.
Ugh don't say this.
My hype for DA4 is going down the drain so fast 
I want my automail like dwarven arm damnit. (Also could be an awesome source of angst with it failing at the worst times and baddies exploiting it for maximum feelz.) DAMNIT I WANT A EXPLOITABLE WEAKNESS THAT USED TO BE A STRENGTH. GIVE IT TO ME BIOWARE.
You're making the same arguments against a random, unrelated foreigner coming to Tevinter to suddenly solve its' problems that I was making against a random, unrelated hero coming in to finish the inquisitor's story.
Kind of. I just consider the problems of a nation to be something actually worth consideration, as opposed to a personal dispute between two people.
Ugh don't say this.
My hype for DA4 is going down the drain so fast
I want my automail like dwarven arm damnit. (Also could be an awesome source of angst with it failing at the worst times and baddies exploiting it for maximum feelz.) DAMNIT I WANT A EXPLOITABLE WEAKNESS THAT USED TO BE A STRENGTH. GIVE IT TO ME BIOWARE.
I want that too, we won't know for years T_T
Kind of. I just consider the problems of a nation to be something actually worth consideration, as opposed to a personal dispute between two people.
...and I'm the opposite 
I want that too, we won't know for years T_T
Yeah
The angst that could come from it especially if the companions (past and new ones) try to comfort the PC over it and I just it could be done so well with Quizzy coming to terms with it.
(Plus we can solve some plot dumb moments with arm failure so then at least it's not stupidity it's just bad luck).
...and I'm the opposite
It's mostly against Solas, really. The fact that he's marked the Inquisitor as his nemesis is really what makes me want someone else to be the one to undo him, just to deny him the satisfaction.
But in general I don't consider a petty squabble between two individuals worthy of note when weighed against the balance of nations.
If Solas wasn't trying to destroy the world, then I might put more weight on it. If it was just to get back at Solas for a betrayal, then I'd be on board. But the fact that the stakes are so big makes me not about that at all. That pushes into "It doesn't matter who stops him, so long as he's stopped" territory. Which, combined with the above, is why I want someone else to do it.
Mmm... what you've been suggesting, in this thread and the others on this subject, is probably worse... maybe..
Here's my prediction/ hopes and dreams for da4.
-Pc becomes a pirate and gets their own ship. They become this due to becoming an outlaw of tevinter some how.(Fallen noble, escape slave,framed for murder, etc.)
-Pc becomes involved in the war in the north on the surface,(tevinter/qunari) and in the shadows(Inquistion/dread wold) and can pick sides as more info is known.
-Tevinter involse supporting nobles,the Lucerni, slaves, or the Soporati the commoner class and influences who rule tevinter or side with the qunari.
- Pc can become a corsair and play sides or support sides if they want.
-Areas covered would be from Tevinter to Rivain.
It's mostly against Solas, really. The fact that he's marked the Inquisitor as his nemesis is really what makes me want someone else to be the one to undo him, just to deny him the satisfaction.
But in general I don't consider a petty squabble between two individuals worthy of note when weighed against the balance of nations.
If Solas wasn't trying to destroy the world, then I might put more weight on it. If it was just to get back at Solas for a betrayal, then I'd be on board. But the fact that the stakes are so big makes me not about that at all. That pushes into "It doesn't matter who stops him, so long as he's stopped" territory. Which, combined with the above, is why I want someone else to do it.
For me, personal connection is what make or break a story. A nation might be interesting but to me it's just a backdrop. I only care about it so much as I care about the individuals who are a part of it. When playing DA:O for example we could have witnessed a scene of Gwaren being destroyed and I would have cared a little in that automatic way you're like "oh no!" when you see something bad, but I wouldn't have really cared and I wouldn't have thought back on it. Meanwhile if there had been a scene with Ban Teagan getting stabbed through the heart I would have been infinitely more upset because this was a character I'd grown to know and like. On that note, "save the world" stories don't mean anything to me. It's the journey, the little details and the people you meet along the way that I care about.
If the game had been completely fresh with no Solas, no world ending crisis, and no inquisition then I would have loved to play a ringleader in a Tevinter slave uprising but that's not the hand BioWare dealt us. With things laid out the way they are, I want to play the inquisitor and have my revenge.
Here's my prediction/ hopes and dreams for da4.
-Pc becomes a pirate and gets their own ship. They become this due to becoming an outlaw of tevinter some how.(Fallen noble, escape slave,framed for murder, etc.)
-Pc becomes involved in the war in the north on the surface,(tevinter/qunari) and in the shadows(Inquistion/dread wold) and can pick sides as more info is known.
-Tevinter involse supporting nobles,the Lucerni, slaves, or the Soporati the commoner class and influences who rule tevinter or side with the qunari.
- Pc can become a corsair and play sides or support sides if they want.
-Areas covered would be from Tevinter to Rivain.
I want to vomit after reading your post. DA: Pirate Age? Seriously?
I want to vomit after reading your post. DA: Pirate Age? Seriously?
And what so wrong about that?
It's part of the lore already.
http://dragonage.wik..._the_Waking_Sea
Heck the qunari even lost to them.
"During the Exalted Marches against the Qunari, however, the nations ofThedas found themselves in dire need of every ship they could muster against the massive power of the Qunari dreadnaughts. The Llomerryn pirates were faced with a difficult decision: band together under one flag and fight with those they had previously preyed upon or face conversion and annihilation by the Qunari. Thus the Armada was formed at 7:55 Storm.[5] The pirates brought their knowledge of stealth and trickery to bear, plaguing Qunari supply lines and even launching seaborne invasions against the Qunari coast. At 7:78 Storm the raiders managed to defeat the Qunari in a massive naval battle and then take Estwatch from them, an island with strategic importance.[6] After the signing of the Llomerryn Accord at 7:84, they maintained their association rather than disband—much as others might have hoped.[3]"
"
Come on. Hubris is the sin of pride. Which is what Solas' name means. That sin has to pop up.
That's not all he is. He's not just a pride demon.
That's not all he is. He's not just a pride demon.
For me, personal connection is what make or break a story. A nation might be interesting but to me it's just a backdrop. I only care about it so much as I care about the individuals who are a part of it. When playing DA:O for example we could have witnessed a scene of Gwaren being destroyed and I would have cared a little in that automatic way you're like "oh no!" when you see something bad, but I wouldn't have really cared and I wouldn't have thought back on it. Meanwhile if there had been a scene with Ban Teagan getting stabbed through the heart I would have been infinitely more upset because this was a character I'd grown to know and like. On that note, "save the world" stories don't mean anything to me. It's the journey, the little details and the people you meet along the way that I care about.
If the game had been completely fresh with no Solas, no world ending crisis, and no inquisition then I would have loved to play a ringleader in a Tevinter slave uprising but that's not the hand BioWare dealt us. With things laid out the way they are, I want to play the inquisitor and have my revenge.
I agree with everything you're saying except for the conclusion it leads you to, that the Inquisitor needs to be the one to deal with Solas.
I would still want there to be a connection between Solas and the new protagonist. As I've said many times, I think they're fully capable of developing that relationship into something interesting. They've demonstrated the ability to do that before.
I think part of my problem is just the idea that the Inquisitor is the only one who could possibly have a personal stake in stopping Solas.
If they did it right you could even have a scene late in the game where the new protag confronts the Inquisitor, be it in the form of an NPC(preferably, in my opinion) or dual protag, about which of them has the more legitimate personal dispute with Solas, or they can call the Inquisitor out on being too personally involved while countless lives are at stake, or they can argue about how to deal with him with one arguing to save him and the other one punching that one in the face.
Of course the problem with that dynamic is if they're in perfect agreement on everything then what the hell is the point of there being two of them, which is why I'm against dual protagonists.
Anyway, another part of the problem is, like I said, Solas wants it. So, in my mind, if the Inquisitor beats Solas, whether by killing him or redeeming him, Solas wins, and I cannot allow that.
I agree with everything you're saying except for the conclusion it leads you to, that the Inquisitor needs to be the one to deal with Solas.
I would still want there to be a connection between Solas and the new protagonist. As I've said many times, I think they're fully capable of developing that relationship into something interesting. They've demonstrated the ability to do that before.
I think part of my problem is just the idea that the Inquisitor is the only one who could possibly have a personal stake in stopping Solas.
If they did it right you could even have a scene late in the game where the new protag confronts the Inquisitor, be it in the form of an NPC(preferably, in my opinion) or dual protag, about which of them has the more legitimate personal dispute with Solas, or they can call the Inquisitor out on being too personally involved while countless lives are at stake, or they can argue about how to deal with him with one arguing to save him and the other one punching that one in the face.
Of course the problem with that dynamic is if they're in perfect agreement on everything then what the hell is the point of there being two of them, which is why I'm against dual protagonists.
Anyway, another part of the problem is, like I said, Solas wants it. So, in my mind, if the Inquisitor beats Solas, whether by killing him or redeeming him, Solas wins, and I cannot allow that.
I don't get this part. I think Solas wants Inquisitor to leave him alone for a couple of years and live in peace while he goes and carries out his seemingly dumb plan.
No. The story is about thedas. not one character.
Quoting myself from the first page because there is no point trying to rewrite my thoughts - it'll just end up less eloquent.
2. It's worse for developing the universe. A lot of people cite the "Thedas is the protagonist" argument during this debate, but in my opinion, having the same protagonist and most of the same cast across multiple games allows the world to actually come to the forefront, not the other way around. If you have to build a new character and their relationships each game, a lot of the focus has to be on that, not the world in general. I found in Mass Effect, I could appreciate the evolving galaxy just fine, and probably more, because Shepard didn't need to be built-up each game. Not only that, but I get sick of my character knowing progressively less and less compared to the player. I don't want to ask all of these questions I should know the answers to.
2. It's worse for developing the universe. A lot of people cite the "Thedas is the protagonist" argument during this debate, but in my opinion, having the same protagonist and most of the same cast across multiple games allows the world to actually come to the forefront, not the other way around. If you have to build a new character and their relationships each game, a lot of the focus has to be on that, not the world in general. I found in Mass Effect, I could appreciate the evolving galaxy just fine, and probably more, because Shepard didn't need to be built-up each game. Not only that, but I get sick of my character knowing progressively less and less compared to the player. I don't want to ask all of these questions I should know the answers to.
Conversely, at least in my opinion, it makes things start to feel more contrived by having every single important event on a vast continent be resolved by the same group of super special people. I hate how nothing important happens in the Star Wars universe without a Skywalker or a Solo being personally involved, and I would hate for a single group of adventurers to right all the wrongs in Thedas.
Quoting myself from the first page because there is no point trying to rewrite my thoughts - it'll just end up less eloquent.
And so many storys with multiple characters and shifting cast says no. Te same case and main character means the same perspectives to a world that can be seen in many ways. Being able to see the world with a new cast and pc allow for a new perspective for the world of thedus the old cast and pc would not have. Sticking to one character counters that point.
ME is the biggest example of how one pc narrows the perspective of the universe the pc is in. We just know how a human military perspective is and even then the cast does shift.
Quoting myself from the first page because there is no point trying to rewrite my thoughts - it'll just end up less eloquent.
I've seen the argument, I just disagree with it.
We learn more about the world through new characters and relationships. We first learned of Orlais through Leliana, and the Qunari through Sten and Antiva through Zevran. We learned of Tevinter from Fenris and the Dalish from Merrill. So on and so forth.
As for the player character, well. Aside from my belief that some allowances need to be made for new fans to the series, I can somewhat agree with the idea that each character should at least have the option of knowing as much as we do about the world, if not about the specific plots.
But playing new and different characters each time is part of what draws me. The Inquisitor is too courtly, too refined, even at their gruffest. Next time around I might want to play someone who's response to the Winter Palace questline would be to physically beat some sense into those damned Orlesians, not play their stupid Game.
But playing new and different characters each time is part of what draws me. The Inquisitor is too courtly, too refined, even at their gruffest. Next time around I might want to play someone who's response to the Winter Palace questline would be to physically beat some sense into those damned Orlesians, not play their stupid Game.
I agree with this. Well, not the part about the Inquisitor being too courtly because I thought that that was excellent after most of the protagonists I've played as. On the other hand, I like the idea of new protagonists because they offer the opportunity to make a new character who's very different from the previous ones. This is particularly important to me after Inquisition since I've become so attached to the idea of my canon Inquisitor that it's almost awkward to play as anything else now.
Not only do new protagonists allow you to approach issues from a new perspective as a player, they also allow weirdos like me to have their character respond to events in new ways with more freedom.
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