1659 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

And that's the thing. This is not ME. Sure you get more perspectives but you see other places of that universe. You just a person of a ship the get off it from time to time and ether sight see some other things going on or have it told to you.. With DA you live it. In mass effect you are told about the war that are happening at the side of ME2. In DA you are living it and meaning people who were a part of it as part of your team.

"This isn't blank" is a terrible argument. Stories all have similarities, and that's fine. Without needing to be specific, if one story has a good idea, another can use it too. If a story has a bad idea, they shouldn't reuse it. We can argue all day about which things are good and bad, but at its core, saying something shouldn't be done simply because another story did it isn't saying anything at all. And I'm not quite sure what you're saying for the rest, sorry.

[leaguer of one]

"This isn't blank" is a terrible argument. Stories all have similarities, and that's fine. Without needing to be specific, if one story has a good idea, another can use it too. If a story has a bad idea, they shouldn't reuse it. We can argue all day about which things are good and bad, but at its core, saying something shouldn't be done simply because another story did it isn't saying anything at all. And I'm not quite sure what you're saying for the rest, sorry.

but I has a point that it is not "blank". When some says that they are taking about the goal, formula, and direction of the story. These are different for DA and ME. Taking what works in one story and putting it in another is not going to work if the point of said story is different. It would be like transplanting a reptiles heart in to a mammals body. 

 

What works for ME is not going to work for DA because the goal is different.

[NoForgiveness]

You say that like DA hasn't already been taking for ME. Dialogue wheel. Pause menu... even Hawke was originally meant to be Shepard 2.0.

[leaguer of one]

You say that like DA hasn't already been taking for ME. Dialogue wheel. Pause menu... even Hawke was originally meant to be Shepard 2.0.

To an extent. Taking some element form ME does not mean the goal changes for DA. Even if Hawke is made to be similar to Shepard it does not mean the goal of DA change. That made clear the moment we play DAI and we are not playing Hawke.

[Nefla]

I either want DA4 to be:

 

-Solas V Inquisitor, no new PC, no Inquisitor as NPC, no dual protagonist.

 

OR

 

-Solas dies or is defeated on twitter or in a book or whatever, IDGAF and DA4 is about a Tevinter slave uprising and you play a new protagonist who's a former slave and a rebel. No returning companions, no cameos.

[NoForgiveness]

 

-Solas dies or is defeated on twitter or in a book or whatever, IDGAF and DA4 is about a Tevinter slave uprising and you play a new protagonist who's a former slave and a rebel. No returning companions, no cameos.

 

Eww...

[Nefla]

Eww...

 

Come on, it would be as epic as the mage/templar war! (I do hate returning characters and cameos though...)

[Ryzaki]

Eww...

 

I'd usually be with you but I'm so tired of one plot line dragging into the next game from the previous (usually with the last PC leaving it unresolved) I'd be fine with it at this point.

[In Exile]

That might be true if you want to see it like that. But thing is, whatever relationship they do have is certainly alot more then a new character could ever have. Him being a companion puts him in an interesting position. I don't think I've ever had a companion conflict like this. I mean, I've killed plenty of companions, but it was never like the character was the antagonist. They can't just make him a companion again and there's really no way a new pc will have any connection beyond "big bad. gotta stop" 

 

Well, no. It's not hard to invent a backstory that's centrally tied to Solas, in the same way that at the time DA2 ended Hawke had a quite material connection with Corypheus thanks to Legacy, but DA:I clearly managed to come up with an equivalent one for the Inquisitor and Corypheus to justify the main quest.

 

Solas isn't an interesting villain just because he happened to be in the party. He's an interesting villain because he's a complicated character, and the Inquisitor won't tread any new ground. Already the Trespasser interaction was bordering on melodrama. There's nowhere else to go with the Inquisitor/Solas plot besides a showdown, and you can do that just as well with a new protagonist that doesn't have all the baggage. 

[midnight tea]

Well, no. It's not hard to invent a backstory that's centrally tied to Solas, in the same way that at the time DA2 ended Hawke had a quite material connection with Corypheus thanks to Legacy, but DA:I clearly managed to come up with an equivalent one for the Inquisitor and Corypheus to justify the main quest.

 

Considering that the material connection between Hawke and Corypheus cannot possibly rival that of between Solas and Inquisitor (no matter if they were liked or disliked) I can't see a way for the game establishing anything of equivalent weight - that is, unless we spend enough time to re-establish connection and re-tell story again OR do so in backstory not controlled by the player in any large extent.

 

In both cases - what would be the point?

And again - what reason would the new protagonist have to try and redeem Solas?? In what circumstances an option of 'saving him from himself' would be even given to a new hero???? ....Because Solas made sad puppy eyes at a new PC or something  ?

 

 

Solas isn't an interesting villain just because he happened to be in the party. He's an interesting villain because he's a complicated character, and the Inquisitor won't tread any new ground. Already the Trespasser interaction was bordering on melodrama. There's nowhere else to go with the Inquisitor/Solas plot besides a showdown, and you can do that just as well with a new protagonist that doesn't have all the baggage. 

 

No, but the reason we've found out he's interesting is precisely because he happened to be in the party. It let us (and Inquisitor and the rest) know him in a way that is rather difficult to repeat post-reveal.

 

Even during DAI Solas distanced himself from people, because of his mission - the approved Inquisitor cracked his resolve, but that likely makes Solas distance himself form people even more now, given that he knows that he's emotionally compromised. So you think he'd be seeking understanding and connection with others, instead of hardening himself before he realizes his plan? He pushes even his lover away, ostensibly because he doesn't want her to see what he becomes.

Keeping that in mind it seems we won't be knowing the Dread Wolf as much on personal level as we did in DAI - both because he'd be an antagonist, and both because it would be an unnecessary repeat of what we've had in DAI. The window to him as a person would likely be provided through Inquisitor, because truly - who else is there? And how interesting it would be to see where Inquisitor's (positive or negative) perspective would push either a new protagonist or a new player??

 

Also - there are many directions to go with the Inquisitor that I can think on the spot.

 

Inquisitor is basically Solas's counterpart and counter-balance in the grand scale of things (chosen by fate or circumstance and carrying the title that all but replaces their name in order to fight for 'their' worlds), and considering that Solas himself is more or less conflicted doing something potentially awful, don't you think it would be interesting if the other side was conflicted as well?

 

Depending where the story goes, we could be given a really interesting, emotional or intellectual rollercoaster ride - what if Thedas is dying anyway, and Solas's plan actually makes sense if put in that perspective? What if saving one world means the destruction of another (there are implications that Solas keeps someone 'sleeping, masked in a mirror' and they're apparently 'hiding and hurting')?

Those are interesting dilemmas that could be answered with more than one protagonist, but even more impactful if given to us from a perspective of a 'veteran' hero with connection to Solas, be it on personal level, or their similar role in the universe.

[NoForgiveness]

Well, no. It's not hard to invent a backstory that's centrally tied to Solas, in the same way that at the time DA2 ended Hawke had a quite material connection with Corypheus thanks to Legacy, but DA:I clearly managed to come up with an equivalent one for the Inquisitor and Corypheus to justify the main quest.

 

Solas isn't an interesting villain just because he happened to be in the party. He's an interesting villain because he's a complicated character, and the Inquisitor won't tread any new ground. Already the Trespasser interaction was bordering on melodrama. There's nowhere else to go with the Inquisitor/Solas plot besides a showdown, and you can do that just as well with a new protagonist that doesn't have all the baggage. 

 

I don't want a centrally tied connection through a ****** backstory. That is just artificial and bad. The connection the inquisitor has is one that evolved naturally(for the player and character) over the course of the game. 

 

Hawke and Cory's relationship was "I killed you, but you're back." Nothing special. Bad comparison. Move on.

 

A showdown is absolutely everything I'm going for. Like I said, I've never had a conflict on this scale with a character my character considers one of his/her best friends. It really has not been done. And capitalizing on that seems like a much much much more interesting story than another rise to power and stop the big dbag story. 

[CardButton]

You know I've been thinking about this a little and I'm having a heck of a problem trying to figure out where in Tevinter we would would be able to find a suitable new Protagonist (assuming that is where the game is taking place and that Solas is going to be the primary Antagonist)?

 

From what we've gathered (mostly from Dorian and Codex entries) Tevinter is a very different social climate than southern Thedas. The country is ancient, deteriorating and primarily isolationist.  It has two different forms of slavery: Indentured Servitude (in which an individual sells themselves for a period of time to pay off a debt, but this contract does not pass down through families) and Genetic Slavery (Elves, which is race based and does pass down from parent to child).  The country has had two religions (Black Divine Andrastian and Dragon Old Gods) and due to its relation to Elves probably does not care one bit about the Evanuris.  Blood Magic is publicly shunned, but is a norm and Tevinter has been stuck in a long standing war with the Qunari (and thus has "bigger" issues at the moment).  Above all, Mages rule and are heavily active in Bureaucratic, Religious and Military matters.

 

The problem I'm having is unless the new protagonist is going to be exclusively an Elf, I doubt there is a single person regardless of social standing (outside of Dorian) who would take the threat of Solas seriously in all of Tevinter; considering the "Dread Wolf" is straight out of Elven lore.  If it is an Elf, your going to be a slave on the lowest wrung of the social ladder and realistically denied things like martial or magic training (or any form of higher education) to prevent forms of rebellion ... so unless your given "the magic plot power of win" you really shouldn't have the capabilities to challenge anyone (and if you secretly did have skills your main problem would be Tevinter, rather than Solas).

 

Your connection to Solas would probably be one of him being a potential Savior to your people (or a powerful ally in the quest for Elven freedom) so you would be either getting manipulated by him for a portion of the game (do we really want this plot point again?), or you would actively helping his cause (this would be immensely interesting story-wise, but it would make you an Anti-Hero or even another Antagonist) and the game would still require a genuine Protagonist to function narratively.  A role that would reasonably fall to the Inquisitor ... though I suppose if this were the case the Quizzy would be perceived as an Antagonist for at least part of the game.

 

Just some thoughts and sorry for the long post, but I'd love to hear everyone's ideas on the matter!

[Tamyn]

-Solas dies or is defeated on twitter or in a book or whatever, IDGAF and DA4 is about a Tevinter slave uprising and you play a new protagonist who's a former slave and a rebel. No returning companions, no cameos.

 

"Solas defeated on Twitter!" Is just a hilarious image to me. Like someone more long-winded out-lectures him and he gives up.

 

 

 

Inquisitor is basically Solas's counterpart and counter-balance in the grand scale of things (chosen by fate or circumstance and carrying the title that all but replaces their name in order to fight for 'their' worlds), and considering that Solas himself is more or less conflicted doing something potentially awful, don't you think it wouldn't be interesting if the other side was conflicted as well?

 

Depending where the story goes, we could be given a really interesting, emotional or intellectual rollercoaster ride - what if Thedas is dying anyway, and Solas's plan actually makes sense if put in that perspective? What if saving one world means the destruction of another (there are implications that Solas keeps someone 'sleeping, masked in a mirror' and they're apparently 'hiding and hurting')?

Those are interesting dilemmas that could be answered with more than one protagonist, but even more impactful if given to us from a perspective of a 'veteran' hero with connection to Solas, be it on personal level, or their similar role in the universe.

 

 

This is reminding me of the old PC game Death Gate (based on a novel series I haven't read). You play as a guy trying to magically reform the world to release your people (Patryns) from torturous imprisonment in an intelligent labyrinth, and you hate the people who imprisoned them (the Sartan) and broke the world into separate realms in the first place. As you progress in your journey, you meet several sympathetic members of the Sartan and start to like them as individuals. They are also suffering from their ancestors' sundering of the world and you begin to want to help them too, whereas your mentor wants to destroy them. You have to convince your mentor that they are not villains and that his plan is more dooming than helpful.

 

I really liked that story as it turned your perspective around.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

Hmm. I think that the next game being set in Tevinter and thus likely featuring a new protagonist does not necessarily preclude the Inquisitor from coming back as a protagonist later on. I would imagine that after the events of Trespasser, both the Inquisitor and Solas need to go to ground for a bit, and re-assess and re-consider their potential future plans. I can absolutely see the entire Inquisitor v. Solas situation go quiet for a bit, with the respective parties pooling their resources before their next move and influencing things from the shadows, so to speak, without any overt direct involvement on part of the leadership.

 

Tevinter plot could be a chessboard of sorts, with the new protagonist coming into contact with representatives of both camps and doing their thing, possibly choosing a resolution to the situation there that would either benefit the Inquisiton more (whatever version thereof) or Solas. The game after DA4, depending on where the setting and the story moves could then possibly feature the Inquisitor again (come on, BioWare, give us that cool magitech prosthetic arm to whoop behinds with!) Besides, I think I remember one of the devs saying they have toyed with the idea of multiple protagonists, so it is not entirely out of the question.

 

Ah, never mind me, just some random thoughts.

 

But if I am to be completely honest, I do agree that having a new protagonist each subsequent game is giving me a protagonist whiplash a bit. Speaking entirely subjectively, with each new DA game, I get this new character I become invested in, I help them go through hardships, through some good times, I am then always teased that more may very well come their way aaaaand...you never see them again. Or, as is the case with Hawke, you only see them again to have them potentially die. That is...hm. Yeah. The whiplash thing.

 

And I mean, it does not necessarily have to be between "have a new protagonist every single game" and "have the same protagonist every single game". What if there were three main people who rotated between installments? Each would have their respective field of expertise and each would have their theme to which they would be central. The Blights and the Warden-y things would be the domain of someone like the Warden, so games that are Blight-heavy would have someone like the Warden as their returning protagonist. Someone like Hawke, who is tied to the mage/templar/red lyrium portion of the lore, would be the returning protagonist in installments that feature mages/templars/red lyrium. The Inquisitor is all about demons/spirits and the Fade and Solas, so if the game is about demons/spirits and the Fade and Solas, the Inquisitor would be the returning protagonist in that installment. They would take turns, each would have their own story, which would form a section of the main over-arching story. This way, it is not just one person in charge of everything everywhere ever, but everybody does their thing, and you get to see the characters you became invested in again on top of that. I am not sure how doable that is, though. Again, just a purely subjective, silly thought. 

[Smudjygirl]

Hmm. I think that the next game being set in Tevinter and thus likely featuring a new protagonist does not necessarily preclude the Inquisitor from coming back as a protagonist later on. I would imagine that after the events of Trespasser, both the Inquisitor and Solas need to go to ground for a bit, and re-assess and re-consider their potential future plans. I can absolutely see the entire Inquisitor v. Solas situation go quiet for a bit, with the respective parties pooling their resources before their next move and influencing things from the shadows, so to speak, without any overt direct involvement on part of the leadership.

 

I actually like your ideas, but some people are just against seeing anyone again.

 

But i primarily wanted to comment on the bit quoted. People are working of the tip given that IF there is a DA4, it will conclude Solas' story (i believe that is what was said) As such, people want the Inquisitor back as PC in DA4 as we have a hint Solas is very likely going to be the central figure/antagonist of the game. Those who want them back believe that Solas' story is the Inquisitor's story and we can't see how it can work on the same level with anyone else. On the opposite side we have people who just want new protags (primarily it seems to be about seeing Tevinter through a Tevinter, or dislike of the Inquisitor)

 

Hence we have one big circular argument where people simply can't agree, and there are many people on each side. We'll just have to wait and see, i suppose.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

I actually like your ideas, but some people are just against seeing anyone again.

But i primarily wanted to comment on the bit quoted. People are working of the tip given that IF there is a DA4, it will conclude Solas' story (i believe that is what was said) As such, people want the Inquisitor back as PC in DA4 as we have a hint Solas is very likely going to be the central figure/antagonist of the game. Those who want them back believe that Solas' story is the Inquisitor's story and we can't see how it can work on the same level with anyone else. On the opposite side we have people who just want new protags (primarily it seems to be about seeing Tevinter through a Tevinter, or dislike of the Inquisitor)

Hence we have one big circular argument where people simply can't agree, and there are many people on each side. We'll just have to wait and see, i suppose.

Hm I see. But where was it hinted at that the Solas arc will absolutely certainly be concluded in the next game? From what I remember, prior to the release of Trespasser it was said that the Solas arc is too big to conclude in a DLC, meaning it likely requires a full game to conclude, but not that it necessarily has to be the very next one. If there is a source that hints at the Solas arc ending in the game that immediately follows, could someone please link it?

[Smudjygirl]

Hm I see. But where was it hinted at that the Solas arc will absolutely certainly be concluded in the next game? From what I remember, prior to the release of Trespasser it was said that the Solas arc is too big to conclude in a DLC, meaning it likely requires a full game to conclude, but not that it necessarily has to be the very next one. If there is a source that hints at the Solas arc ending in the game that immediately follows, could someone please link it?

 

One of the devs said it, i can't find the quote. I'll try

 

EDIT: I can't find the quote but Patrick Weekes has said that if they are to do another DA, they will give closure to Solas' story. So Solas will be in DA4 and we are assuming he is the major antagonist. But really all we know is he'll be there and his story will finish in DA4

[ottffsse]

I think some of the saved decisions in the keep can be put to good use in the future considering there is stuff in their like q.) When declaring for the inquisition what was the inquisitor's stance?. B. What kind of tone did the inquisitor's judgements take? C. Class/ background /specialization. D. Some interesting choices under companions and advisors.

These probably can be even more refined if there are a few more options like personality of inquisitor (diplomatic, opportunistic, aggressive) and of course his/ her stance regarding solas at the end.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

One of the devs said it, i can't find the quote. I'll try

EDIT: I can't find the quote but Patrick Weekes has said that if they are to do another DA, they will give closure to Solas' story. So Solas will be in DA4 and we are assuming he is the major antagonist. But really all we know is he'll be there and his story will finish in DA4

Hm, interesting. As you said, we'll just have to wait and see

[leaguer of one]

You know I've been thinking about this a little and I'm having a heck of a problem trying to figure out where in Tevinter we would would be able to find a suitable new Protagonist (assuming that is where the game is taking place and that Solas is going to be the primary Antagonist)?

 

From what we've gathered (mostly from Dorian and Codex entries) Tevinter is a very different social climate than southern Thedas. The country is ancient, deteriorating and primarily isolationist.  It has two different forms of slavery: Indentured Servitude (in which an individual sells themselves for a period of time to pay off a debt, but this contract does not pass down through families) and Genetic Slavery (Elves, which is race based and does pass down from parent to child).  The country has had two religions (Black Divine Andrastian and Dragon Old Gods) and due to its relation to Elves probably does not care one bit about the Evanuris.  Blood Magic is publicly shunned, but is a norm and Tevinter has been stuck in a long standing war with the Qunari (and thus has "bigger" issues at the moment).  Above all, Mages rule and are heavily active in Bureaucratic, Religious and Military matters.

 

The problem I'm having is unless the new protagonist is going to be exclusively an Elf, I doubt there is a single person regardless of social standing (outside of Dorian) who would take the threat of Solas seriously in all of Tevinter; considering the "Dread Wolf" is straight out of Elven lore.  If it is an Elf, your going to be a slave on the lowest wrung of the social ladder and realistically denied things like martial or magic training (or any form of higher education) to prevent forms of rebellion ... so unless your given "the magic plot power of win" you really shouldn't have the capabilities to challenge anyone (and if you secretly did have skills your main problem would be Tevinter, rather than Solas).

 

Your connection to Solas would probably be one of him being a potential Savior to your people (or a powerful ally in the quest for Elven freedom) so you would be either getting manipulated by him for a portion of the game (do we really want this plot point again?), or you would actively helping his cause (this would be immensely interesting story-wise, but it would make you an Anti-Hero or even another Antagonist) and the game would still require a genuine Protagonist to function narratively.  A role that would reasonably fall to the Inquisitor ... though I suppose if this were the case the Quizzy would be perceived as an Antagonist for at least part of the game.

 

Just some thoughts and sorry for the long post, but I'd love to hear everyone's ideas on the matter!

1.DA4 is going to be more then stopping solas. You're dealing with social change and an invasion. It does not need to be focused on Solas only. In fact Solas can have his spies hamper the war with the qun in both sides.

 

2. Also, it does not mean we are siding with tevintor only. Tevinter has many factions in it to side with from the slave, common class, and the nobles. Added, you could side with the qun as well.

 

3.And it easy to have the pc be involved to down Solas. They can kill off the Archon via assassination and the pc is framed of it. And It turns out it was Solas all along.

[Astraea Nevermore]

I've been following this thread for a while, and I decided to add my own two cents to it, too. Personally, like other people said, I'd love to see the Inquisitor coming back as a main character again in DA4, either as the sole protagonist or as a dual protagonist. Actually, I'd love it if we could get an Awakening type of choice at the beginning of the game: you either import your Inquisitor back *or* you choose an entirely new character for your story. That would make everyone happy, I think... even though I don't know how easy it'd be to code (not to mention that it would require a ton of voice actors just for the main character D: )
 

Speaking of the Inquisitor, I think that, gameplay-wise, the arm thing would be the perfect excuse for our characters to start from level one (since they'll need to re-learn how to fight using only one arm and/or a prosthetic arm). Second, as it was already mentioned, the conflict between Solas and the Inquisitor feels just way too personal for our character to be completely thrown out of the plot. Sure, this doesn't mean that it *can't* work with a new character at all (they made Corypheus work as an antagonist for the Inquisitor even if it was Hawke who first confronted him and had somewhat "personal" reasons to go after him) and I do think that Bioware is more than capable to give us a new character with just enough motivation to fight Solas as the Inquisitor. Plus, that sentence at the very end of the game ("Solas knows everything about us"/"Then we'll find someone he doesn't know") seems to be a rather strong hint at the fact that we're going to get a new character in DA4, after all. Still... I don't know, the ending of Trespasser kind of left me with the feeling that the Inquisitor deserves more D: hence why I'm not so willing to see them completely disappear and/or turn into a simple cameo D: an advisor role would also be nice, but... yeah, I agree with those who say that the current foundation of the game appears to be working better with Quizzy as the (or one of the) playing character(s), especially if Solas is going to be the main antagonist of the next game.

[Eivuwan]

People keep bringing up how DA4 could be mainly focused around a Qunari invasion of Tevinter, but how is that plot-line even remotely interesting? The Qun is something that few players agree with or can even relate to. It will be just be "we have to fight some bad guys." Solas' plan to take down the veil is a lot more interesting in my opinion because of the world changing impact that it has. There is also the inquisitor's personal connection to him and the controversy over what kind of person he is. Heck, I want to see the veil come down, but without all the destruction. It will completely change the landscape of Thedas, which is refreshing to me. If there are going be other plot-lines aside from the Solas arc, it should be about a slave uprising because that is something that is directly related to Solas' ideals. As for the possible Qunari vs. Tevinter war, I can care less. I don't even know which side to support because one is an elitist slave owning society and the other is a culture that hates freewill.

[Ryzaki]

Eh Solas plan is another case of stab the crazy deluded elf for me. It's not automatically more interesting than the political machinations between Tevinter (corrupt as it is) and the Qun.

 

That said I can have both friend turned into crazy deluded antagonist and political machinations. And I want both damnit.

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah, Tevinter and the Qun are the two most single interesting parts of the setting to me. Seeing them going at it, especially if we have the option to pick sides or play both sides against each other? That sounds like a hell of a lot of fun.

 

Solas is a guy bent on destroying the world for vaguely sympathetic reasons. Lemme go over to tvtropes and find you another hundred of them. I'll admit Solas is a fairly well done version of that trope, but still.

 

I'm honestly reminded of Skyrim -approps, since DAI was very reminiscent of Oblivion - where the more interesting plot was the Civil War, even though more focus was given to the return of the Dragons. Solas playing the part of Alduin in this particular production. Now, personally I would hope that the plots are given equal importance and neither gets the Mage/Templar treatment where it's settled in the first act with a matter of "choose one!" But that's just me.

 

Also, Solas actually succeeding in taking down the veil is literally the last thing I want to see in this setting. I want to see Par Vollen, Rivain, Antiva, Nevarra, the Anderfels, and what lies beyond the sea, in that order. And I want to see them as they exist now, not in the aftermath of the removal of the Veil, however much or little destruction as that might cause.

 

After all of that, then sure, by all means, tear the veil down and give us immortal elves and magic-using dwarves and whatever comes with it. Just not before I've seen the rest of the setting in it's "before" state to be able to appreciate it.

[myahele]

After the events of Trespasser, it's really hard for me to want a new protagonist that will be the one dealing with Solas. I'm sure the Inquisitor will have a slightly bigger role than when Hawke "helped" but still.