That just a mid story conflict. Wouldn't it make it more so for more future conflict and a vendetta. Still obi-wan later faced Vader again and did not end the fight there ether.
Well the RotS fight is really what I'm going for. It has that finality to it. And I'm not against something unexpected happening. Though I wouldn't want the inquisitor to just give up.
But the quis is not giving up. they just not in the frontlines anymore.
But the quis is not giving up. they just not in the frontlines anymore.
I've always liked the new protag approach BioWare took with the DA franchise. I remember an interview awhile back (I think it was with Gaider) where they emphasized that the main character of DA was always the world of Thedas, and that the protagonists were the vehicles to experience it. I can jive with that. Sometimes the execution is a bit janky in some areas, but I've always liked their goal.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing the Inquisitor again (specifically my Lavellan for... reasons) as the protag in the next game. They left a lot open, and I'm curious to see how'll the Quiz will be implemented if DA4 is made.
While I don't necessarily agree with everything in your quoted post, I can't argue with your statement about the Trespasser presenting an opportunity, a potential for something really interesting moving forward. A lot of people see the maiming as the means to effectively remove the Inquisitor from the front lines; I see it as a stepping stone to something unique. The Inquisitor would now have a whole new host of difficulties to encounter, it could provide for character growth, interesting new gameplay mechanics (the possibility for a mechanical arm with a tinge of magic just won't let me be); Bioware could set themselves apart from your run of the mill generic fantasy RPGs. Not to mention that whole disability angle.I have very little faith in BioWare's writing ability these days. Trespasser and the spark of potential of BioWare writing a game between a protagonist and antagonist with a personal connection, the refreshing idea of being disabled and learning to live and function and fight again, the idea of redemption or vengeance, those things gave me hope. Starting from square one takes that all away for me. It becomes another "save the world from an evil wizard."
DA2 was incredibly disappointing to me but it at least had potential. I could see how if the story was tightened up and the game given more time it would have been good. ME3 was worse and assassinated the character of various people including Shepard, changed the tone that was present for the first two games into a hamfsted "you lose, there is no hope" scenario and gave us such an unsatisfying and illogical ending that people started a huge campaign to get it changed, but at least there were a few good and emotional moments and the combat was fun. DA:I was the worst yet. It had an uninteresting and generic villain that I didn't care about, companions with no real reason to be there and no connection to the plot, a plot that was weak in general and quite disjointed, very limited roleplaying and personality defining options, no balance between triumph and tragedy with the inquisitor always winning with ease. This not only stopped me from feeling loss and sadness but also stopped me from feeling triumphant because winning was just so easy and expected. The combat was also more of a chore than any other BioWare game I've played. Without Trespasser, I would have left the series behind for good but like I said, it sparked such potential and got me thinking of a DA4 that I would actually love. If they continue on as they have been, discard that potential, and use the inquisitor's maiming to make them a generic cameo NPC then my interest will reset to what it was before Trespasser and that is zero.
I loved Origins, I really liked ME1 and I loved ME2. I love SWtOR and play it almost every day (I also liked KotOR and Jade empire and though the human only protagonists made me less interested, I thought they had good stories and good antagonists). I want to feel that again. I want to play a BioWare game and be passionate about it. I want it to make me laugh and cry and scream with anger. I want a coherent and interesting story rather than a series random events that someone halfheartedly tried to connect. I don't want to play a game that's all flash and no substance, I don't want to see cut corners and "good enough's" and "it wasn't a priority's." ME3 did enough damage for me to never want to play another ME again under any circumstances. I haven't looked at anything to do with the next ME, I haven't even clicked on the subforum here. I don't want that to be the way it ends with DA too.
Bioware did say they are not against seeing old protagonists again if they have a good reason and it creates drama. I can't think of anything more dramatic than taking Solas down! 
I've pretty much skipped the last couple of pages on account of i'm pretty sure i read everything that was said a few pages ago.
People need to understand that everyone here is talking out of perspective and personal feelings and without the powers that be swooping in and spilling all, we will never know. Well, we won;t know for a while, anyway.
I'm with the people who believe there could be more the Inquisitor could do. And i would prefer it that way. After the ambiguous ending of the base game, having a new PC would have been fine, even with the little scene with Solas and Flemeth. At that point my Inquisitor would not have known who Solas was and what he planned to do. Someone new could have easily slipped into that spot. But now she does, and she's vowed to stop him. Even my Inquisitors that were neutral/hated Solas vowed to stop him. They just finished watching some potential effects of the Veil disappearing, i can't fathom a good reason for them to retire into relative obscurity. And i would not be happy with them being an NPC because Hawke's appearance made very few happy, and angered the rest. From the way they looked to the way they acted, people were not satisfied. We can all but be certain we will see the Inquisitor again, because no one knows Solas in the same way they do. You see different facets of his personality depending on your relationship with him, and that information is important. Anyone could stop Solas but it will come down to
1) I will stop Solas and kill him/save him from himself (Inquisitor)
2) I'm going to save the world from the crazy elf because someone has to do it (New PC)
Both could work, but 1 gives stronger character motivation. Those of us who prefer one see how much more personal that story would be. New players would be at something of a disadvantage, but they won't be excluded. And i always have to wonder why people play later games first, but if they choose to do that then they should expect some amount of confusion.
As a long winded show of how connections helps, i wonder who else was confused and excited about Solas being the Dread Wolf. I played a Dalish in Origins, and Merrill in DA2 was good insight into how closed minded some Dalish can be. So when Solas came in and told my Inquisitor everything she ever knew about the Gods is wrong, i, as the player, was really excited and intrigued. I thought i knew everything about the Elven lore, and knew it wasn't completely true because of various Codex. To meet someone i'd read a lot about, only to be told everything i knew was wrong made me so excited in itself to see where the story goes. People who haven't played the first two games or ignored Codex would not have had that same moment. For me, the resolution with Solas happening with the Inquisitor will give me that same level of satisfaction. Sure a new PC could easily fit the slot, but a lot would be missed and the only reason i can see that is a convincing argument for the new PC is "it's a thing now". "They're a cripple" would actually be deeply offending, and i would outright reject it as a concrete reason. I don't think Bioware is disgusting enough to use the lack of an arm as a reason to not have the Inquisitor back. The only other reason would be "Solas knows them", but the Inquisitor also knows Solas and has an outright effect on how he is as he sets his plans into motion. If he is neutral or hates you, he's more set on his goals than ever. If he respects or loves you, he is deeply conflicted by his actions, though still committed to them. Without using yet another big part of a game to get to know him, a new PC does not have this connection. As such i think that reason is shaky. Leaving "it's a thing now" as the only remaining argument, but what's the point in doing that if the story would be stronger with the Inquisitor fighting Solas. I mean, i want to be a Tevinter and see that place and that life through their eyes, but not while Solas is still running around. The only interesting thing a new PC could get out of this for me is 1) they are a magister and 2) they find out they are not a mighty nation built upon strength, but scavengers stealing from a corpse. And the Inquisitor has some entanglement with the Qunari, including the knowledge they plan to invade the South after they saw the Breach, Yet another reason they would not just sit back and wait for stuff to happen.
I interpret the line "Then we'll find people he doesn't know" to mean companions. Granted, i know that's more of a hope than anything else.
So far there is 1 thing we do know. Solas' story will conclude in DA4, as Weekes so helpfully told us. Some of us want the Inquisitor to come back and finish what they started, so a new PC can come and do some awesome stuff. Solas pretty much challenges the Inquisitor to stop him, i would rather not play as the Inquisitor's scapegoat. People thought Morrigan's OGB would be a big plot point, but it wasn't (made sense given he may not even exist). People thought the Mage/Templar war would be the main part of DAI, it wasn't. And was mostly found to be unsatisfactory. If they downplay Solas' role with what they have set up in Trespasser, i'm going to have to start questioning if they know what they're doing. The established a connection between the Inquisitor and Solas (some people seem like they haven't picked up on that), Solas challenges the Inquisitor (I would treasure the chance to be wrong again my friend or I know you will try [to stop me]), the Inquisitor does know his tactics. But as well as this, Solas hates the Qun. He would most likely HELP prevent an invasion again, from the shadows.
Just as a new PC can come in from the side lines and stop Solas, the Inquisitor can go to Tevinter and fight against the Qunari....and i bet make Dorian Archon. I'm pretty sure Weekes also said we won't be building up another massive power, which the Inquisitor wouldn't do given they know how Solas works.
This ended up long winded and i probably wanted to say more, but this circular argument is getting very tiresome. Just as those who don't want the Inquisitor back are not convinced by what we say, i have yet to see any sort of argument for a new PC that makes me think it could even be a slightly good idea. If the Inquisitor is not the PC of the next game, i will begrudgingly buy it. If i feel that something was lost because they put in a new PC "because we did" then i may not be able to buy another game from them. Only time will tell.
I don't want the inquisitor as an advisor/mentor/whatever. I wanted my Inquisitor to be the kind that can't stop fighting. A missing arm stopping her is massively ooc.
Too bad. They are Obi-one now.
Yes and Lando should've been the one to kill Vader/Emperor. Just crash the the ship through the window.
I cannot be the only one who thinks that would have been amazing.
I don't want multiple plots that should be given their own games and thoroughly fleshed out to be hastily smushed into one the way they were with DA2 so I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'd want a Qunari/Tevinter conflict shoved in and then wrapped up in act one. I don't want the inquisitor back as an NPC. I don't want a random nobody who...helped fight some guards? Taking over the fight against Solas. I want to play as the inquisitor, I want to go undercover and subvert Solas' plans, maybe even infiltrate his organization. When they finally clash, I want it to mean something more than "you're bad so I'm stopping you." That stuff isn't what you want, I get it. Neither of us are going to change the other's mind.
I'm not talking about smushed together, I'm talking about interwoven. Now, again, I gave an incredibly rough draft example that is a starting point that can be refined into something better. It's not my fault you don't understand the writing process.
I want something like this. I also want quests that allow me to figure out what exactly are Solas' plans and alternative methods of saving the ancient elves that don't require mass destruction. Or maybe find evidence to show him that if he tears down the veil, there will be unforeseen consequences such as the blight spreading or the titans wakening.
And this here, along with the above; infiltrating Solas' organization, investigating his plans and finding alternatives - that isn't a game. That's, at best, an act. One arc of a game, maybe. I do not see how that can be stretched out into the length of a bioware game and not have it feel like it's either dragging on padded to hell and back. And that's assuming you're playing a character who is going to consider finding alternative methods to accomplish Solas' goals a valuable use of their time, or who would take the time to try and convince him that his plan isn't worth it, and wouldn't just murder him.
There are more ways to fight than on the front lines.I don't want the inquisitor as an advisor/mentor/whatever. I wanted my Inquisitor to be the kind that can't stop fighting. A missing arm stopping her is massively ooc.
There are more ways to fight than on the front lines.
The Inquisitor would be directing the efforts against Solas, running a network of agent of which the new PC is a major part. Generals rarely get down on the frontline with weapon in hand, that doesn't mean they aren't fighting a war.
This is why I've become more and more attached to my dual protagonist scenario. The new protagonist will be the primary playable character, but at particular moments in the plot we switch to the Inquisitor for dialogue+choice heavy sequences, it could also include the Inquisitor making wartable-like decisions that would then be reflected in the world the new PC explores. I feel this could create a very interesting dynamic and opens up the possibility of an Inquisitor-Solas confrontation of some kind, which a lot of people seem to want.
The new PC would probably never speak directly to the Inquisitor, Dorian will act as intermediary
This would also be an awesome compromise and something that would make me super happy 
I've pretty much skipped the last couple of pages on account of i'm pretty sure i read everything that was said a few pages ago.
People need to understand that everyone here is talking out of perspective and personal feelings and without the powers that be swooping in and spilling all, we will never know. Well, we won;t know for a while, anyway.
Spoiler
This post is best post I agree with everything you've said.
I'm not talking about smushed together, I'm talking about interwoven. Now, again, I gave an incredibly rough draft example that is a starting point that can be refined into something better. It's not my fault you don't understand the writing process.
I understand the concept of an outline (a rough draft would mean you'd actually written most of the story which would still need editing. I thought you understood the writing process...), I simply found yours to be lacking. If you had given us an example of how those two plots would be interwoven then I might have accepted it as NOT being the disjointed mishmash that was DA2 (though based on your other ideas, I doubt it).
And this here, along with the above; infiltrating Solas' organization, investigating his plans and finding alternatives - that isn't a game. That's, at best, an act. One arc of a game, maybe. I do not see how that can be stretched out into the length of a bioware game and not have it feel like it's either dragging on padded to hell and back. And that's assuming you're playing a character who is going to consider finding alternative methods to accomplish Solas' goals a valuable use of their time, or who would take the time to try and convince him that his plan isn't worth it, and wouldn't just murder him.
In DA:O you stop a dragon and an some evil orcs, in Jade Empire you stop an Emperor, in Mass Effect 1 you stop Saren, in ME2 you stop the Collectors, in KotOR you stop Malak. Do you really not understand how a story doesn't need multiple concepts to be fleshed out?
I am assuming the new pc will stop the Qunari invasion and help in the reform of Tevinter. These feats will attract the attention of the Inquisitor or Dorian will contact the Inquisitor(like varric with hawke) and tell him we found our guy/gal to stop solas. I just don't see the Inquisitor stepping out of the shadows to settle major plot lines without attracting the attention of solas and I don't see the Inquisitor selecting a random person to help stop solas. The new pc would have to prove they are on Warden, Hawke, Inquisitor level as far as fame and ability and doing those two things mentioned above would do just that. Plus a one armed Inquisitor even with a fake arm taking down Solas would be a great feat for the Herald but would make Solas who currently is the top villain in the series I would say even above Nightmare would make him look extremely weak. But finding someone equally as skilled as they was previously that makes sense. that is if Solas is even going to be a boss in the game he could fill the flemeth role and continue to pull strings until DA5 or 6. Unless the Anderfels plot will be in DA4 or a DLC I don't see Solas being done in just one Act. Dragon Age finally has a established villain that concedes with the series revolving around Thedas and not a single hero. Solas is trying to effect the lives of everyone in thedas and the elf rebellion could just be a scheme we stop but not him. Solas is a trickster god so him playing multiple heroes but underestimating them could work. While I would not mind another game of the Inquisitor having a new protag personally makes more sense for me. New romances, new companions, new stories and its easier for the writers to not have to worry about putting the Inquisitor in a situation that would upset most fans. Plus the point of the keep is so fans new to the series can jump right in without having to play the previous games so its better to start new then continue something casual fans would be lost about. Hardcore DA fans are going to play regardless if its the Inquisitor Warden Hawke even Solas himself just to continue the story of thedas we have already been apart of. I don't want solas to be a first Act villain just so the Inquisitor can wrap him up because dragon age track record with act 1 is not good and I don't want Solas plot to overtake the Qunari Invasion because that build has been longer then Solas plot. So in my opinion a new protagonist definitely works in the current game foundation just as well if not more then past protagonist because there is less limits there. Hopefully Bioware learned form Hawke in DA:I and make the Inquisitor a temporary companion because 1.No past hero should ever appear mid game they are legends so its either last act or post game DLC 2. the keep allows us to pick the Inquisitors specialization so besides doing some good writing for that arm combat should not be a issue and 3.Dorian or Inquisitor should be present to at least confront solas as hawke should have been in Doom Upon the World.
The Inquisitor would be directing the efforts against Solas, running a network of agent of which the new PC is a major part
I don't think the next protagonist will be an agent of the Inquisition: more likely this character will do their Tevinter & Qunari related thing with a few events here and there reminding players that the Wolf Hunt is still going on and only once the main military-political-low-fantasy arc is over and Solas hijacks the plot will the next PC and the Inquisitor join ranks for the finale.
In DA:O you stop a dragon and an some evil orcs, in Jade Empire you stop an Emperor, in Mass Effect 1 you stop Saren, in ME2 you stop the Collectors, in KotOR you stop Malak. Do you really not understand how a story doesn't need multiple concepts to be fleshed out?
So essentially you want a lot of unrelated padding before having, what you imagine will be, an epic conversation with Solas.
DA:O, we fight a bunch of zombies and find the holy grail to heal a sick old man. We fight through a wizard's tower to save another old man from some demons. We fight some werewolves to help another old man get over his century's old grudge. And we go through some caves to find either an angry psychopath or a tin man so they can declare a new king in the mountain. Then we united the kingdom that's divided by civil war.
All of these were great quests in and of themselves, but they had jack all to do with the "Stop the dragon and some evil orcs" plot aside from us having coupons that got the old men and the king to use their guys to help us fight the dragon's orcs after we had saved them.
In ME2, well let's not pretend the plot of ME2 was anything at all, really. The whole thing was an excuse to get you through the relay and on the suicide mission. On the bright side, you got to interact with all these really cool characters and go into their personal missions and help them overcome their problems, but on the flip side, none of them had anything to do with the story, which was non-existent.
I never played KotOR. And I played ME1 for the first time last year and, I have to say, I hardly remember anything about it. The scene where Saren shot Nihlus was cool, as was the conversation with Sovereign. Aside from that, there weren't any great story moments that really stick out to me.
Point being, if the entire argument is that the relationship between Solas and the Inquisitor is so epic and so deep and rife with so much potential, then it should cover more of the game than the Archdemon did in Origins. Where's the focus here? We deal with a lot of really unrelated ideas that are loosely tied to us taking down Solas some how by virtue of plot coupon and McGuffin, and then he shows up at the end?
I can see how an entire game can be devoted to the Tevinter/Qunari war. There is more than enough meat and substance there to make an entire DA game about nothing but that conflict. I do not see how there is enough meat on the bone in the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas to devote an entire game to nothing but that in the name of "focus".
All that is going to happen if you have a game that focuses on nothing but Solas is that you're going to have a game that is structurally identical to DAO or DAI, but with a slightly more sympathetic villain. That isn't substance. That is taking an old car and giving it a new, wolf-themed paint job.
So essentially you want a lot of unrelated padding before having, what you imagine will be, an epic conversation with Solas.
Snip
I am fine with one or two major plot points as long as they are interwoven well into the Solas arc. In that case, I am less interested in the Tevinter and Qunari war (I still don't get what's so interesting about this conflict) and more interested in learning more about the blight or helping/denying a slave uprising. I also think the next game should have 2-3 more major quests and I would trade 2-3 of the big maps for that. The core story just felt way too short in DAI compared to the size of the world.
I'm very, very hesitant to learn anything else about the Blight because I am honestly terrified that they are going to out and out confirm that killing off the old gods/arch demons is going to make the situation worse, at which point I will likely go into a rage induced flash-back and need to be institutionalized for the protection of myself and others.
I'm very, very hesitant to learn anything else about the Blight because I am honestly terrified that they are going to out and out confirm that killing off the old gods/arch demons is going to make the situation worse, at which point I will likely go into a rage induced flash-back and need to be institutionalized for the protection of myself and others.
I think killing the archdemons is like cutting off an infected arm. It stops the problem short-term, but if you keep cutting off your body parts, you will die eventually. However, this was what the grey wardens were forced to do in order to buy time. I think the wardens' efforts to find a way to stop the calling might end up helping them develop a vaccine for the blight.
My main issue is that Blizzard did the same "This evil thing that leads a hive-minded army of evil that taints the land wherever it walks? Turns out that it's actually necessary and the world is doomed if you kill it off" plot, thinking they were being clever in subverting the keystone army/cut the head off the snake tropes. They weren't.
I don't doubt that Bioware would do it better than Blizzard did, but I still consider the entire idea moronic and want nothing to do with it.
My main issue is that Blizzard did the same "This evil thing that leads a hive-minded army of evil that taints the land wherever it walks? Turns out that it's actually necessary and the world is doomed if you kill it off" plot, thinking they were being clever in subverting the keystone army/cut the head off the snake tropes. They weren't.
I don't doubt that Bioware would do it better than Blizzard did, but I still consider the entire idea moronic and want nothing to do with it.
I am personally sick of the blight and want to find a cure for it once and for all so I want to deal with it in the next game.
I am personally sick of the blight and want to find a cure for it once and for all so I want to deal with it in the next game.
I'm not opposed to that, necessarily. I would just hope they do it in a way that doesn't send me into a frothing rage.
I want something like this. I also want quests that allow me to figure out what exactly are Solas' plans and alternative methods of saving the ancient elves that don't require mass destruction. Or maybe find evidence to show him that if he tears down the veil, there will be unforeseen consequences such as the blight spreading or the titans wakening.
I think this is almost guaranteed. The Titans were awake before the veil, and have only started to reawaken twice following: Because of the Breach in DA:I, and once a millennium years ago, presumably due to Corypheus' other breach, heh. If Solas' plan involves weakening the veil in some way instead of tearing it down in one go, I could definitely see Titans stirring in DA4 before the end of the game. And I think it makes sense that we'd finally see them regardless. Also, if we're in Tevinter, we will hopefully go to Kal-Sharok, so there is a lot of potential for interesting dwarfy things to happen in addition to the elfy stuff.
My main issue is that Blizzard did the same "This evil thing that leads a hive-minded army of evil that taints the land wherever it walks? Turns out that it's actually necessary and the world is doomed if you kill it off" plot, thinking they were being clever in subverting the keystone army/cut the head off the snake tropes. They weren't.
I don't doubt that Bioware would do it better than Blizzard did, but I still consider the entire idea moronic and want nothing to do with it.
Do you think the Old Gods are willing participants in the Blight? I've gotten the impression it was otherwise, that they were actually victims. Flemeth and Morrigan seem to support that.
Hey, maybe the Calling is actually the Old Gods' attempting to lure the darkspawn away from the surface!
Do you think the Old Gods are willing participants in the Blight? I've gotten the impression it was otherwise, that they were actually victims. Flemeth and Morrigan seem to support that.
Hey, maybe the Calling is actually the Old Gods' attempting to lure the darkspawn away from the surface!
I'm sort of thinking they could be the evanuris. Since they're sleeping and likely want to wake up. With the link between spirits and darkspawn, i was wondering if the Darkspawn were the forms spirits took while the world was in chaos, caused by our mutual friend. Just food for thought, though. I agree they are probably not willing participants in their own corruption
Do you think the Old Gods are willing participants in the Blight? I've gotten the impression it was otherwise, that they were actually victims. Flemeth and Morrigan seem to support that.
Hey, maybe the Calling is actually the Old Gods' attempting to lure the darkspawn away from the surface!
The "the supposed big bad is actually a victim all along" plotline is another "clever subversion" that I'm not a fan of.
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