1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I'm sort of thinking they could be the evanuris. Since they're sleeping and likely want to wake up. With the link between spirits and darkspawn, i was wondering if the Darkspawn were the forms spirits took while the world was in chaos, caused by our mutual friend. Just food for thought, though. I agree they are probably not willing participants in their own corruption

The Blight seems to predate the Veil, going by ancient elven lore, so I doubt the latter idea.

I don't think the Evanuris are the old Gods. It just doesn't jive with how Solas and Flemythal are so keen on preserving them.

[Smudjygirl]

The Blight seems to predate the Veil, going by ancient elven lore, so I doubt the latter idea.

I don't think the Evanuris are the old Gods. It just doesn't jive with how Solas and Flemythal are so keen on preserving them.

 

Is Solas keen on that? I know Flemeth is. I thought he just doesn't like big organisations..oh but he does disapprove of them wanting to seek out the Old Gods. But i do see many correlations between the Evanuris and the Old Gods. The biggest being the discrepancy between if the Magisters learned blood magic from the Old Gods or the Elves. I'm sure i've heard both of those stories.

 

But i'm not so sure i trust the lore anymore, i have trust issues after Solas haah

[Gwydden]

My main issue is that Blizzard did the same "This evil thing that leads a hive-minded army of evil that taints the land wherever it walks? Turns out that it's actually necessary and the world is doomed if you kill it off" plot, thinking they were being clever in subverting the keystone army/cut the head off the snake tropes. They weren't. 

 

I don't doubt that Bioware would do it better than Blizzard did, but I still consider the entire idea moronic and want nothing to do with it.

You know, I don't think SC2 is that bad of a story. Much better than people give it credit for, and certainly much better than Blizzard's usual fare. Though yes, the whole Hybrid arc is nonsense. Bioware suffers from a problem that's similar to Blizzard's, in that they're unable to let go of the convenient "[hero] saves [location] from [villain]" template.

 

The "the supposed big bad is actually a victim all along" plotline is another "clever subversion" that I'm not a fan of.

What about "the supposed big bad is actually a pawn of something that's bigger and badder"? Done to death, but rarely to great effect. ME1 kind of pulled it off, while DAI tried something more or less along those lines and I didn't really care for it. I find it kind of funny when developers go to the good old Hero's Journey for their main plots and then try to nuance it with a plot twist. The result tends to be... sad. Poor, poor ME3.

[Former_Fiend]

You know, I don't think SC2 is that bad of a story. Much better than people give it credit for, and certainly much better than Blizzard's usual fare. Though yes, the whole Hybrid arc is nonsense. Bioware suffers from a problem that's similar to Blizzard, in that they're unable to let go of the convenient "[hero] saves [location] from [villain]" template.

 

 

I was actually referring to Wrath of the Lich King. I haven't played Star Craft or SC2, but I'm not surprised they reused that plot. As much as Bioware gets accused of sticking to a formula, Blizzard is way worse about it.

[Heimdall]

Is Solas keen on that? I know Flemeth is. I thought he just doesn't like big organisations..oh but he does disapprove of them wanting to seek out the Old Gods. But i do see many correlations between the Evanuris and the Old Gods. The biggest being the discrepancy between if the Magisters learned blood magic from the Old Gods or the Elves. I'm sure i've heard both of those stories.

 

But i'm not so sure i trust the lore anymore, i have trust issues after Solas haah

Other stories say the Forbidden Ones taught blood magic.  That seems a flimsy basis, Tevinter got a lot of their magic from the elves, all after the Veil.  But here's a serious issue: The Old Gods talked to their followers.  Codex in JoH indicate the shock of their worshippers when they went silent just before the first Blight.  If they could speak to the Tevinters, why wouldn't they speak to their elven followers and why would they direct Tevinter to attack the elves (Which apparently they did)?

 

The only solid correlation is that there are seven of them, but that means nothing on its own.

[Smudjygirl]

Other stories say the Forbidden Ones taught blood magic.  That seems a flimsy basis, Tevinter got a lot of their magic from the elves, all after the Veil.  But here's a serious issue: The Old Gods talked to their followers.  Codex in JoH indicate the shock of their worshippers when they went silent just before the first Blight.  If they could speak to the Tevinters, why wouldn't they speak to their elven followers and why would they direct Tevinter to attack the elves (Which apparently they did)?

 

The only solid correlation is that there are seven of them, but that means nothing on its own.

 

Never said it was a strong set of similarities. I've only managed to play JoH once since i'm at university right now. But that's true, and even in Legacy we saw Dumat answer Cory. So my theory is not likely. I hope we find out what they are, i'm interested to know

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't want the inquisitor as an advisor/mentor/whatever. I wanted my Inquisitor to be the kind that can't stop fighting. A missing arm stopping her is massively ooc.

Agreed. At worst, your character can be like one of those Venatori Zealots who only has a one-handed sword that can deflect absolutely anything

 

The new PC would probably never speak directly to the Inquisitor, Dorian will act as intermediary

Don't you think that would probably make the Inquisitor even worse than Hawke in terms of breaking our agency?

[Heimdall]

Agreed. At worst, your character can be like one of those Venatori Zealots who only has a one-handed sword that can deflect absolutely anything

 

Don't you think that would probably make the Inquisitor even worse than Hawke in terms of breaking our agency?

Considering the scenario I'm talking about includes playing as the Inquisitor, I'm not sure what you mean.

[CardButton]

Other stories say the Forbidden Ones taught blood magic.  That seems a flimsy basis, Tevinter got a lot of their magic from the elves, all after the Veil.  But here's a serious issue: The Old Gods talked to their followers.  Codex in JoH indicate the shock of their worshippers when they went silent just before the first Blight.  If they could speak to the Tevinters, why wouldn't they speak to their elven followers and why would they direct Tevinter to attack the elves (Which apparently they did)?

 

The only solid correlation is that there are seven of them, but that means nothing on its own.

I mean outside of presumably wanting vengeance on the elven population because of their entrapment in the Fade.  While the numbers do add up ... the gender ratio's don't ... which is kind of odd, though not a deal breaker. Assuming that two of the 9 Evenuris would be removed from the potential list (Solas and Mythal) that would leave 4 Males (Elgar'nan, Falon'Din, Dirthamen and June) and 3 Females (Andruil, Sylaise and Ghilan'nan).  Out of 7 Old Dragon Gods there's only one Female (Razikale), the other 6 (Dumat, Zazikel, Toth, Andoral, Urthemiel and Lusacan) were apparently Male.

 

I suppose it's possible that the physical gender of the dragons themselves didn't really matter to the Evenuris as they were probably just receptacles or hosts anyway, but it still a little odd that a group apparently so vain and self obsessed as to pretend to be gods over their own species wouldn't be at least a little picky about what their Physical World Ride was.  It is a neat theory though!  

[Heimdall]

I mean outside of presumably wanting vengeance on the elven population because of their entrapment in the Fade.  While the numbers do add up ... the gender ratio's don't ... which is kind of odd, though not a deal breaker. Assuming that two of the 9 Evenuris would be removed from the potential list (Solas and Mythal) that would leave 4 Males (Elgar'nan, Falon'Din, Dirthamen and June) and 3 Females (Andruil, Sylaise and Ghilan'nan).  Out of 7 Old Dragon Gods there's only one Female (Razikale), the other 6 (Dumat, Zazikel, Toth, Andoral, Urthemiel and Lusacan) were apparently Male.

 

I suppose it's possible that the physical gender of the dragons themselves didn't really matter to the Evenuris as they were probably just receptacles or hosts anyway, but it still a little odd that a group apparently so vain and self obsessed as to pretend to be gods over their own species wouldn't be at least a little picky about what their Physical World Ride was.  It is a neat theory though!

Most of the elven population was still under the sway of the Evanuris when they were banished, so I don't think so.

 

Eh, I still don't buy that Solas would go through all that trouble sealing them while leaving it possible for them to contact their followers.  I also have trouble believing that the Old Gods are just receptacles.  That would be a big let down.  Besides, Flemeth apparently doesn't need an actual dragon to take the form of one and transfers her soul to her daughters.

[CardButton]

This is definitely me being a completely selfish Solace-Levallan player, but man the idea that perhaps the Black City could be Arlathan is making my Pro Inquisitor PC brain itch.  

 

The revelation that the Tevinter Imperium did not destroy the Ancient Elves (the Elves destroyed themselves), the Imperium was merely scavengers.  Combined with Corypheus' insistence that he "Found Only Chaos and Corruption, Dead Whispers" and the whole "The People fell for what I did to strike the Evenuris Down, but still some hope remains for their restoration.  I will save the Elven people, even if that means this world must die ... I am not Corypheus, I take no joy in this, but the return of my people means the end of yours" from Solas thing and there is some serious weirdness here.  Lastly there is Abelas when a Dalish Inquisitor asks him to help the Dalish learn about their past, he responds "Our" People? The Ones we see in the forest, shadows wearing Vallaslin? You are NOT my people."

 

If Solas still has no intention of saving his own love interest from the cataclysm caused by the disappearance of the Viel then it is highly doubtful that he intends to save any of the "Elves" of current Thedas.  If anything, like Abelas, he does not consider them truly "Elvhen" and therefore not "his people". Who then is he going have return or save?  Combine this with the fact that both these Ancient Elves have admitted to waking from a long sleep ... then perhaps both of them are still inflicted by the disconnection of he Fade as well; and thus still aging.  Simply, the hibernation allows them some level of longevity (going to sleep connects those with magic closer to the Fade after all and it is this disconnection that is a cause of Ancient Elves to begin aging).  

 

"The Black City" is always at the center of the Fade and no matter where you enter you are always equal distance from it, perhaps that is where Solas created the Viel? Could the entire city been have made into the prison for the Evenuris?  If so, since "Arlathan" was the Capital CITY of the Ancient Elves maybe ... just maybe, there remains a large population of Ancient Elves trapped there with their "Gods" and since they would have never been removed from the Fade they would still retain their Immortality.

 

Then of course there are the Codex's that Arlathan was once in what is now Tevinter ... maybe it was before the creation of Veil?  Which would bring the Tevinter as a setting into play for sure.  What would happen if the Veil was brought down and Arlathan returned to its proper location and that location happened to be on the strangely isolated island where Minrathous happens to be?  Marvelous!

 

Finally there is one (perhaps throwaway) line that Cory says to the Inquisitor that always sticks in my brain whenever I hear it.  "I will not suffer even an unknowing rival". What a weird thing for him to say, because a person who is trying to thwart the Breach (and only subsequently him) isn't a rival even if they are using the anchor, they are an enemy or a hindrance. The term rival literally means "A person or thing competing with another for the same objective", but Corypheus' objective was to go into the Fade and become a God and he probably knew damn well that wasn't the Quizzy's intent.  Well then an "Unknowing Rival" literally would be a person who has the same end goal (or at least the potential for the same end goal), but doesn't know it? Even Solas makes fun of you for being a considered some sort of "Demi-God" in his first companion dialogue and gets mad you in the "Punching" scene about playing at something equivalent to a God.  MY CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE GOING OFF THE CHARTS FOLKS!!!!  ALL HAIL INQUISITOR GOD!!!

 

And people say there aren't enough interesting tales to tell about a PC Inquisitor for Dragon Age 4.

[The Hierophant]

^Cory probably meant rival in terms of their influence since people either feared or revered the inquisitor.

[CardButton]

^Cory probably meant rival in terms of their influence since people either feared or revered the inquisitor.

Lol I know that idea is silly as all hell, but then why would he call you an "Unknowing" Rival?  Surely the Inquisitor was by that point aware of the Noteriety they were getting and they had no way of knowing they would be made leader of the Inquisition (one mountain climb and spontaneous music performance later). Neither did Cory for that matter.  It's easy to assume that this was just a bit of misused dialogue, but considering how well spoken Corypheus is for the rest of the game (even if he's completely ineffectual as an actual villain) it's an odd writing slip-up.  UNLESS IT'S NOT!! DUN DUN DUN!!!!

[Former_Fiend]

I am very much against us ever stepping foot inside the Black City, because no matter what's there, it's going to be a let down.

 

It's one of those things that's been built up too much for the answer to possibly equal the speculation that the fanbase has. It just works better as a mystery.

[Eivuwan]

I am very much against us ever stepping foot inside the Black City, because no matter what's there, it's going to be a let down.

 

It's one of those things that's been built up too much for the answer to possibly equal the speculation that the fanbase has. It just works better as a mystery.

 

So pessimistic.

[CardButton]

I am very much against us ever stepping foot inside the Black City, because no matter what's there, it's going to be a let down.

 

It's one of those things that's been built up too much for the answer to possibly equal the speculation that the fanbase has. It just works better as a mystery.

But didn't "Trespasser" kind of wreck that idea when they revealed the Fade used to be part of the physical world and the only thing keeping them apart is the Veil (which Solas created). That would imply that if it isn't Arlathan the Ancient Elves had all the time in the world to try to get to the Black City (with access to way more powerful magic than Tevinter ever had).  Plus they and their technology were super connected to the Fade to the point where when the Veil went up, all that crap was wrecked.  I somehow doubt such a community that was so intrinsically related to the Fade and was SUPER powerful with magic couldn't figure out a way to at least get there, when Corypheus himself admitted to at least making through the door (and I remind you the Immense amount of magic power used by those Magisters was so they could just get through the Veil and enter the fade physically).  And once the elves had made it there, there is no reason to believe they couldn't easily go and return whenever they wanted to.

 

The only other option is that it's like a Pandora's Box and that it was the thing the Evanuris was going to use to destroy the world (perhaps by releasing the Blight themselves)?

 

Yeah it could really suck to have such a great mystery like "The Black City" potentially lose it's mystique, but a lot of what Trespasser revealed seems to imply that's potentially what could happen.

[Eivuwan]

I want them to make the black city a truly dark place. Like dark mists and rivers of blood.

[CardButton]

I want them to make the black city a truly dark place. Like dark mists and rivers of blood.

Cory describes it (assuming he can be believed on this) as a place full of corruption, chaos and "Dead Whispers".  That sounds kind of like the shattered library, though I could be crazy.

[Former_Fiend]

So pessimistic.

 

I've copped to pessimism a few times in this thread. Here? I'd call it realism.

[BansheeOwnage]

Considering the scenario I'm talking about includes playing as the Inquisitor, I'm not sure what you mean.

I thought you meant Dorian would convey the Inquisitor's wishes to the new protagonist to minimize their involvement.

 

 

I've copped to pessimism a few times in this thread. Here? I'd call it realism.

Most pessimists do. Because realism is, oddly enough, subjective. I'm sure people say the same thing about me when I feel I'm being realistic.

[Heimdall]

I thought you meant Dorian would convey the Inquisitor's wishes to the new protagonist to minimize their involvement.

To limit their direct interaction, because that would mean yanking one out of the player's control, which I think Bioware would be wary of after how Hawke was received.

[Nefla]

CardButton, I love your ideas

[BansheeOwnage]

To limit their direct interaction, because that would mean yanking one out of the player's control, which I think Bioware would be wary of after how Hawke was received.

Having someone translate for your Inquisitor sounds even worse than having their lines be automated.

[Nefla]

It's all or nothing for me baby! Either we play as the inquisitor only, and Solas is the main antagonist OR the story doesn't deal with Solas at all and we play a new, unrelated character and the inquisitor doesn't appear at all.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

"The Black City" is always at the center of the Fade and no matter where you enter you are always equal distance from it, perhaps that is where Solas created the Viel?

 

 Well then an "Unknowing Rival" literally would be a person who has the same end goal (or at least the potential for the same end goal), but doesn't know it?

Solas made the Veil at Skyhold But I do think the Black City is Arlathan. And you can talk to Morrigan about the rivalry thing, and you can say whether you would want to take the power in the City or not. Of course, it makes no sense that you can say yes, since if you did, you could just open another fade-portal and go get it... Now I want to see Blighted-Magister Inquisitor. Sort of.

 

 

Yeah it could really suck to have such a great mystery like "The Black City" potentially lose it's mystique, but a lot of what Trespasser revealed seems to imply that's potentially what could happen.

I think we'll see what's inside in the next game, as well as the Titans. I don't want them to string us along forever with these mysteries, especially since they might not be able to make all the games they want. And they can always come up with knew ideas, or have smaller-scale games like DA2. But yeah, with the veil possibly coming down, I bet the mysteries of the Black City will be revealed, since it might be a terrible idea to unleash whatever is in there into the world, and may even be a point to convince Solas not to do it.