1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Well, I suggested in another post that the inquisitor could have some personality development if she/he chose to disband the inquisition. You said that what you want would be too out of character for it to work. But inquisitor joining the Qun is like the most ooc thing I can think of no matter how you play him/her.

 

You can't imagine any inquisitor going, "You know what, I am sick and tired of all this Andrastian bullsh*t that I've been forced to listen to and deal with over the last three years, and Koslun makes some good points."

 

Honestly at this point I don't care about IC/OOC. I just cannot imagine a greater middle finger to give Solas than whispering "Ataash Qunari" right before killing him.

[The Baconer]

You can't imagine any inquisitor going, "You know what, I am sick and tired of all this Andrastian bullsh*t that I've been forced to listen to and deal with over the last three years, and Koslun makes some good points."

 

Under what circumstance would they even know what Koslun's points are. Most of the Qunari don't even seem to know. 

[Former_Fiend]

Under what circumstance would they even know what Koslun's points are. Most of the Qunari don't even seem to know. 

 

Well aside from what they learn from conversations with Bull, we've got four knowledge perks. If including it under history isn't feesable, add in a qun knowledge perk and make having that a requirement for taking the convert option.

[BansheeOwnage]

The Qun puts you in positions you'll excel at. A non-mage inquisitor is going to be put in a combat role, whether Antaam or Ben-Hassrath, because they excel at killing things. 

 

Look, I'm not here to get into a debate over the Qun. But if you're telling me that not only can I not decide what my character is doing with their life post amputation, not only can I not decide who my character does and doesn't care about, but that I also can't decide what philosphy my character decides to embrace, then as far as I'm concerned, my agency has already been taken from me.

I don't really want to get into it too much either, but the Qun is not practical. They operate using Insane Troll-Logic thinly veiled as practicality. Anyway, I'm not trying to take away your player agency, I was only saying that the protagonist will never join the Qun. Or at least any current protagonist. I don't know why you think I'm taking away your agency in other ways.

[The Baconer]

Well aside from what they learn from conversations with Bull, we've got four knowledge perks. If including it under history isn't feesable, add in a qun knowledge perk and make having that a requirement for taking the convert option.

 

Plausible, I suppose, if not rather sterile. 

[Abyss108]

I'm not sure how a Qunari protagonist would work. Wouldn't every possible choice just have to be "follow the Qun"?

 

Sounds boring... 

[Former_Fiend]

Plausible, I suppose, if not rather sterile. 

 

Dress it up. Put in a Tamassran npc who's part of the build up to the decision who can explain it in more depth.

 

I just don't think it should be treated as as much of a secret as it is; the Orlesians had the Tome of Koslun for hundreds of years. Did no one transcribe it for study in all that time?

[Former_Fiend]

I'm not sure how a Qunari protagonist would work. Wouldn't every possible choice just have to be "follow the Qun"?

 

Sounds boring... 

 

Eh, every possible choice is being made for me anyway, apparently. 

 

And I don't see it as being particularly different than an Andrastian character letting their faith guide them and asking "What would Andraste do." There's just a somewhat more clear answer to the question for a Qunari.

[Eivuwan]

Dress it up. Put in a Tamassran npc who's part of the build up to the decision who can explain it in more depth.

 

I just don't think it should be treated as as much of a secret as it is; the Orlesians had the Tome of Koslun for hundreds of years. Did no one transcribe it for study in all that time?

 

Your thinking process confuses me. You see to really hate large organizations, but you want your pc to follow the Qun. *looks bewildered*

[Eivuwan]

I understand the practical reasons for the Qun, but I have to agree with Solas on this one.

 

"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any."

[Abyss108]

Eh, every possible choice is being made for me anyway, apparently. 

 

And I don't see it as being particularly different than an Andrastian character letting their faith guide them and asking "What would Andraste do." There's just a somewhat more clear answer to the question for a Qunari.

 

So your solution to feeling every choice is made for you, is to make that even worse? 

 

Andrastian is rather different, because the faith is up to personal interpretation. You can still justify taking different decisions. If you don't follow the Qun as stated 100%, you get sent back for "reeducation". 

[The Baconer]

Dress it up. Put in a Tamassran npc who's part of the build up to the decision who can explain it in more depth.

 

I just don't think it should be treated as as much of a secret as it is; the Orlesians had the Tome of Koslun for hundreds of years. Did no one transcribe it for study in all that time?

 

There's the Qun (as in, the philosophies in the Tome of Koslun), and then there's the Qun according to the Qunari. Iron Bull says that a given individual will know "enough to get by", and I have a feeling this can be summed up as "do as your told". The Tome itself could point to something entirely different. 

 

As for the transcription, Iunno. 

[Former_Fiend]

I understand the practical reasons for the Qun, but I have to agree with Solas on this one.

 

"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any."

 

I hated that piece of dialogue so badly, along with Varric's. "Hey, let's all sh*t on this guy at his lowest after he followed a direct order from the Inquisitor in what seemed at the time to be the wiser strategical and logistic decision."

 

And I also hate the mindset. Solas, and quite a few people on these forums, denounce the evils of the qun as it removes personal choice. They praise the ability to choose and think for yourself. So long as you don't choose the Qun. "You're free to choose and think whatever you like so long as it's not this thing I disagree with."

[Abyss108]

I hated that piece of dialogue so badly, along with Varric's. "Hey, let's all sh*t on this guy at his lowest after he followed a direct order from the Inquisitor in what seemed at the time to be the wiser strategical and logistic decision."

 

And I also hate the mindset. Solas, and quite a few people on these forums, denounce the evils of the qun as it removes personal choice. They praise the ability to choose and think for yourself. So long as you don't choose the Qun. "You're free to choose and think whatever you like so long as it's not this thing I disagree with."

 

I wouldn't say allying with a group who want to invade you and will betray you as soon as it's convenient is a "wiser strategical and logistic decision".

[BansheeOwnage]

I understand the practical reasons for the Qun, but I have to agree with Solas on this one.

 

"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any."

I also agree with Solas about the Qun. At least we'll have a powerful "ally" to fight them with come DA4, if that happens. We'll probably need his (indirect) help to beat them anyway.

[Former_Fiend]

I wouldn't say allying with a group who want to invade you and will betray you as soon as it's convenient is a "wiser strategical and logistic decision".

 

Hence 'seemed at the time'. Point is they all crapped on Bull for it when I let the Chargers die and all patted him on the back for it when I told him to pull them back, and both annoyed me because in both cases he made the same decision; to follow my order.

[Former_Fiend]

I also agree with Solas about the Qun. At least we'll have a powerful "ally" to fight them with come DA4, if that happens. We'll probably need his (indirect) help to beat them anyway.

 

I'm on the complete opposite side of that. Solas opposes the Qun, that's all the motivation I need to support it.

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm on the complete opposite side of that. Solas opposes the Qun, that's all the motivation I need to support it.

That's rather willfully blind of you. People aren't black and white. Everyone will have opinions you agree and disagree with. Just because someone you don't like says something doesn't mean it's a bad idea, and vice versa. For instance, I agree with some of the things you say; I don't disagree just because it's you! Come on.

[Eivuwan]

I'm on the complete opposite side of that. Solas opposes the Qun, that's all the motivation I need to support it.

 

emotional thinking

[Abyss108]

Hence 'seemed at the time'. Point is they all crapped on Bull for it when I let the Chargers die and all patted him on the back for it when I told him to pull them back, and both annoyed me because in both cases he made the same decision; to follow my order.

 

No, not "seemed at the time". It's been obvious since Origins that the Qunari aren't to be trusted and allying with them would be a very bad idea. You don't pretend that people who are planning to invade you are your friends.

 

You have a point about people calling Bull on it, but not the Inquisitor though. 

 

I'm on the complete opposite side of that. Solas opposes the Qun, that's all the motivation I need to support it.

 

How petty.... Spite everyone in the world just to annoy one guy?

[The Baconer]

Oh boy. 

[Former_Fiend]

No, not "seemed at the time". It's been obvious since Origins that the Qunari aren't to be trusted and allying with them would be a very bad idea. You don't pretend that people who are planning to invade you are your friends.

 

You have a point about people calling Bull on it, but not the Inquisitor though. 

 

 

How petty.... Spite everyone in the world just to annoy one guy?

 

One guy who's planning on destroying the world and murdering 99% of the people in it? 

 

Yeah. I'd rather take the Qun than what Solas is offering. The Qun gives me a choice. Solas is just going to murder me.

[Abyss108]

One guy who's planning on destroying the world and murdering 99% of the people in it? 

 

Yeah. I'd rather take the Qun than what Solas is offering. The Qun gives me a choice. Solas is just going to murder me.

 

Except the Qun doesn't give you a choice.  A choice means you have multiple options. The Qun just says "follow the Qun". 

 

The choice isn't Qun or Solas. "**** both of them" is a much better choice then "Become a slave along with everyone else just to try to upset the guy trying to kill me".

[Ryzaki]

I wouldn't say allying with a group who want to invade you and will betray you as soon as it's convenient is a "wiser strategical and logistic decision".

 

I mean goddamn it's not eve like the Qunari are subtle about thinking you're lesser and dumber. They flat out say they want to use you and you're dumb. Why are you proving them right?

[Ryzaki]

I'm on the complete opposite side of that. Solas opposes the Qun, that's all the motivation I need to support it.

 

Absurd.

 

If Solas disagreed with your PC jumping off a mountain would you do it to spite him? It'd be equally as foolish.