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New protagonists every game dont work with current game foundation


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#1401
Former_Fiend

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Except the Qun doesn't give you a choice.  :blink: A choice means you have multiple options. The Qun just says "follow the Qun". 

 

The choice isn't Qun or Solas. "**** both of them" is a much better choice then "Become a slave along with everyone else just to try to upset the guy trying to kill me".

 

The choice under the qun would be "serve whatever role we designate for you, saar-qamek your mind into a drone, or go tal-vashoth and we kill you." That is still more of a choice than Solas is giving anyone, which is "Die."

 

And you're right, it isn't "The Qun or Solas." And I'm not saying it should be. I'd just like the option, because I would like to upset the guy who's dedicated his life to killing me any everyone I've ever cared about right before I chop his head off.

 

Maybe my character would enjoy life under the Qun. Doing what they're good at, purpose, certainty. It's essentially the same life they're already living, just that the climate's warmer. And if not, just go Tal'vashoth and call it a day.

 

 

Absurd.

 

If Solas disagreed with your PC jumping off a mountain would you do it to spite him? It'd be equally as foolish.

 

No, in that situation I'd push him off the mountain.



#1402
Ryzaki

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No, in that situation I'd push him off the mountain.

 

:lol: Pushing someone off a mountain for disagreeing with you? That's a bit much. :P


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#1403
Former_Fiend

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:lol: Pushing someone off a mountain for disagreeing with you? That's a bit much. :P

 

It would be, if it weren't for the fact that we were disagreeing about the rights of millions of people to live.

 

Now, my plan to murder the old gods as the sleep just because Solas is opposed to it? That is foolish and short sighted. But that's only half born out of spite. The other half is curiosity as to what'll happen, since he doesn't seem to consider that information worth sharing.



#1404
Ryzaki

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It would be, if it weren't for the fact that we were disagreeing about the rights of millions of people to live.

 

Now, my plan to murder the old gods as the sleep just because Solas is opposed to it? That is foolish and short sighted. But that's only half born out of spite. The other half is curiosity as to what'll happen, since he doesn't seem to consider that information worth sharing.

 

Oh no no I'm not talking about veil plan. I plan to fill him with arrows because of that. I'm talking about disagreeing about jumping off a mountain. We're talking about Pre-end of base game Solas :P



#1405
Eivuwan

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The choice under the qun would be "serve whatever role we designate for you, saar-qamek your mind into a drone, or go tal-vashoth and we kill you." That is still more of a choice than Solas is giving anyone, which is "Die."

 

And you're right, it isn't "The Qun or Solas." And I'm not saying it should be. I'd just like the option, because I would like to upset the guy who's dedicated his life to killing me any everyone I've ever cared about right before I chop his head off.

 

Maybe my character would enjoy life under the Qun. Doing what they're good at, purpose, certainty. It's essentially the same life they're already living, just that the climate's warmer. And if not, just go Tal'vashoth and call it a day.

 

 

 

No, in that situation I'd push him off the mountain.

 

You think Solas would be upset? He'll just laugh and think you're a mindless soulless drone and wouldn't think twice about petrifying you.


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#1406
Former_Fiend

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Oh no no I'm not talking about veil plan. I plan to fill him with arrows because of that. I'm talking about disagreeing about jumping off a mountain. We're talking about Pre-end of base game Solas :P

 

Well, my Inquisitor wouldn't have joined the Qun just to spite Solas prior to the ending. Post Trespasser? He'd give it some consideration.

 

Honestly I probably wouldn't do it with my canon Inquisitor, though. If it were an option I'd roll up another Lavellan and romance Solas, then take the Join the Qun option in the next game just to rub as much salt in the wound as I possibly could.



#1407
Abyss108

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The choice under the qun would be "serve whatever role we designate for you, saar-qamek your mind into a drone, or go tal-vashoth and we kill you." That is still more of a choice than Solas is giving anyone, which is "Die."

 

And you're right, it isn't "The Qun or Solas." And I'm not saying it should be. I'd just like the option, because I would like to upset the guy who's dedicated his life to killing me any everyone I've ever cared about right before I chop his head off.

 

Maybe my character would enjoy life under the Qun. Doing what they're good at, purpose, certainty. It's essentially the same life they're already living, just that the climate's warmer. And if not, just go Tal'vashoth and call it a day.

 

 

Those aren't choices "under the qun". The first two are exactly the same "follow the Qun" option, the second just has an extra 30 second cutscene of your mind being dissolved first. The third one is a choice to not follow the Qun. (And we got that in Inquisition)

 

Maybe your character would enjoy the Qun. But it still doesn't offer any choices which are important in an RPG. I'd rather Bioware try to add more, rather than adding a "click the option to follow the Qun" button.


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#1408
Former_Fiend

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You think Solas would be upset? He'll just laugh and think you're a mindless soulless drone and wouldn't think twice about petrifying you.

 

Yeah, I think he would. In the same way that he gets upset every time he perceives you to waste or misuse your potential when you do something he disagrees with.

 

And I wouldn't have this be an option early on in the game. Would only come at a point where the next time we see him would be the last boss fight, so he wouldn't be petrifying anything. He'd be bleeding to death on the floor.



#1409
Abyss108

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Well, my Inquisitor wouldn't have joined the Qun just to spite Solas prior to the ending. Post Trespasser? He'd give it some consideration.

 

Honestly I probably wouldn't do it with my canon Inquisitor, though. If it were an option I'd roll up another Lavellan and romance Solas, then take the Join the Qun option in the next game just to rub as much salt in the wound as I possibly could.

 

Sounds like your Lavellan certainly took his betrayal personally. Seems a bit much to sell yourself into slavery to upset your ex-boyfriend... 


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#1410
Eivuwan

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Yeah, I think he would. In the same way that he gets upset every time he perceives you to waste or misuse your potential when you do something he disagrees with.

 

And I wouldn't have this be an option early on in the game. Would only come at a point where the next time we see him would be the last boss fight, so he wouldn't be petrifying anything. He'd be bleeding to death on the floor.

 

Sure if my EX told me that from now on he's going to do everything that I hate to spite me, I would be upset for like a minute and move on. -_- This is cutting off your nose to spite your face.


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#1411
Eivuwan

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Sounds like your Lavellan certainly took his betrayal personally. Seems a bit much to sell yourself into slavery to upset your ex-boyfriend... 

 

Seriously....



#1412
Former_Fiend

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Sounds like your Lavellan certainly took his betrayal personally. Seems a bit much to sell yourself into slavery to upset your ex-boyfriend... 

 

My Lavellen romanced Blackwall. She wouldn't touch Solas with a ten foot pole.

 

I would roll up another one and go full Qun, just to see the look on Solas' face before killing him, though.



#1413
Eivuwan

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My Lavellen romanced Blackwall. She wouldn't touch Solas with a ten foot pole.

 

I would roll up another one and go full Qun, just to see the look on Solas' face before killing him, though.

 

I am going to stop here. The urge to get personal is too strong.



#1414
Former_Fiend

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Well, your side is the side that said every Inquisitor should take Solas' betrayal and manipulations personally. 

 

When I commit, I commit. 



#1415
Ryzaki

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Well, my Inquisitor wouldn't have joined the Qun just to spite Solas prior to the ending. Post Trespasser? He'd give it some consideration.

 

Honestly I probably wouldn't do it with my canon Inquisitor, though. If it were an option I'd roll up another Lavellan and romance Solas, then take the Join the Qun option in the next game just to rub as much salt in the wound as I possibly could.

 

That's silly absurd.

 

Ewww like nooooo. Joining the qun is like. No. As insane as Solas is I'd take his cray cray self over the Qun.


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#1416
Eivuwan

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That's silly absurd.

 

Ewww like nooooo. Joining the qun is like. No. As insane as Solas is I'd take his cray cray self over the Qun.

 

I would rather die as the world burns in raw chaos than to join the Qun. Better die free than to be a drone.


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#1417
BansheeOwnage

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One guy who's planning on destroying the world and murdering 99% of the people in it? 

 

Yeah. I'd rather take the Qun than what Solas is offering. The Qun gives me a choice. Solas is just going to murder me.

That's like saying being able to "choose" between death or slavery is really a choice. And yes, I've seen someone on this forum argue that you have freedom under the Qun because if you don't like it you can always off yourself :blink: "Do what we say or we'll kill you" has never been freedom, by any stretch.


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#1418
BansheeOwnage

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Well, my Inquisitor wouldn't have joined the Qun just to spite Solas prior to the ending. Post Trespasser? He'd give it some consideration.

Wait, you'd actually be more likely to join the Qun after what they did in Trespasser?! :blink: Both in general and to you specifically?

 

Sounds like your Lavellan certainly took his betrayal personally. Seems a bit much to sell yourself into slavery to upset your ex-boyfriend... 

No, it's worse than that. You're not even selling, you're just giving.

 

I would rather die as the world burns in raw chaos than to join the Qun. Better die free than to be a drone.

Especially considering I think becoming a drone would effectively be dying, anyway. Some Mass Effect quotes are appropriate here:

 

Samara: Either way, what makes these geth individuals dies. If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.

Thane: There’s no moral difference between the two. If you change who the Heretics are, you’ve “killed” them. Killed their perspective.

Jacob Taylor: Changing their personality is the same as killing them. Who they are is gone.

Kasumi: Either way the Heretics are wiped out. Killed or remade. What’s the difference?

Jack: Wow, great choices. Genocide or brainwashing. If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything… I’d rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.


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#1419
Nefla

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The Qun is idiotic. The rigidity would make sense if their ideas were actually practical and useful but they just restrict themselves.

 

 

Spoiler


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#1420
BansheeOwnage

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The Qun is idiotic. The rigidity would make sense if their ideas were actually practical and useful but they just restrict themselves.

 

 

Spoiler

Yeah. I'd be really interested to see a truly practical society, because I think that would be very interesting. The Qun is not that, so I've never found it as interesting as other people seem to. Every culture has some stupid rules or traditions, and the Qun's are just extreme, not truly different from Orlais or Ferelden or Tevinter etc.


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#1421
Former_Fiend

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I would rather die as the world burns in raw chaos than to join the Qun. Better die free than to be a drone.

 

You know, there is one reason why this argument will never phase me.

 

We've interacted with a lot of qunari at this point. Sten, Tallis, Bull, Arishok, Ketojen, Arvaarad, Gatt, Viddasala, so on.

 

And none of these people are mindless drones. All of them make decisions, moral judgments, act of their own initiative. They may use the Qun as a moral guide and code of social conduct, but they don't all come to the same conclusions and act in the same manner or have the same thought processes.

 

Arvaarad was a tool, but no more so than several of the templars we meet. Viddasala was a mad woman and a fanatic, but there are no shortage of those outside the Qun. Ketojen committed suicide for his beliefs but that's no more extreme than circle mages volunteering for tranquility. Bull will turn on you if he's loyal to the Qun, but you're the guy who ordered him to let his closest friends die alone for a hill; I'm pretty sure that's a little more personal than he admits at the moment. 

 

And yes, they want to invade and convert everyone, but so does the Chantry. They've committed two genocides over it, in the Dales and in Rivain. They've gotten lazy about it in the modern era but their belief still holds that the Chant must be sung from all corners of the world and it's only a matter of time until a Divine lights a fire under them for it. And let's not forget that while the Qun will "reeducate" you, the Chantry will kill you for heresy. Just a matter of one being a little lazier about it than the other. 

 

So you can try painting it with the simple, Orwellian nightmare brush that the Qun haters like to use, but from where I'm sitting, that isn't the picture the evidence paints. I'm not saying the Qun is perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I, personally, in real life, would not want to live under it. But I can see how a reasonable, sane, and intelligent person living in Thedas can take a look at it and decide that it's a life they'd like to live. 

 

And outside of that; I, in real life, as a gamer and fan of the series, cannot think of a more satisfying ending to Solas' story - again, for me, from my perspective - than him being defeated by the Qun. He likes the Inquisitor. Or at least he respects the Inquisitor. If he's defeated by the Inquisitor he's going to accept that with grace and dignity, if with sorrow. But he hates the Qun with every fiber of his being. If he's defeated by the Qun, for the Qun, he will rage. He will seethe. He will spit his last breath at us for hate's sake. 

 

And I would savor every moment of it. 

 

I'm not saying it should be mandatory. I said from the start it should be entirely optional. But it would be an option I would take because it would be the only way to make the confrontation between Solas and the Inquisitor actually satisfying for me. I don't want to have to endure Solas going out like Loghain if you choose to execute him. I want the option to have Solas go out like Howe; cursing us in impotent anger.

 

Or we can just have a game without the Inquisitor as the protagonist and I'll be perfectly satisfied with that.


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#1422
Ardent Blossom

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You know, there is one reason why this argument will never phase me.

 

We've interacted with a lot of qunari at this point. Sten, Tallis, Bull, Arishok, Ketojen, Arvaarad, Gatt, Viddasala, so on.

 

And none of these people are mindless drones. All of them make decisions, moral judgments, act of their own initiative. They may use the Qun as a moral guide and code of social conduct, but they don't all come to the same conclusions and act in the same manner or have the same thought processes.

 

Arvaarad was a tool, but no more so than several of the templars we meet. Viddasala was a mad woman and a fanatic, but there are no shortage of those outside the Qun. Ketojen committed suicide for his beliefs but that's no more extreme than circle mages volunteering for tranquility. Bull will turn on you if he's loyal to the Qun, but you're the guy who ordered him to let his closest friends die alone for a hill; I'm pretty sure that's a little more personal than he admits at the moment. 

 

And yes, they want to invade and convert everyone, but so does the Chantry. They've committed two genocides over it, in the Dales and in Rivain. They've gotten lazy about it in the modern era but their belief still holds that the Chant must be sung from all corners of the world and it's only a matter of time until a Divine lights a fire under them for it. And let's not forget that while the Qun will "reeducate" you, the Chantry will kill you for heresy. Just a matter of one being a little lazier about it than the other. 

 

So you can try painting it with the simple, Orwellian nightmare brush that the Qun haters like to use, but from where I'm sitting, that isn't the picture the evidence paints. I'm not saying the Qun is perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I, personally, in real life, would not want to live under it. But I can see how a reasonable, sane, and intelligent person living in Thedas can take a look at it and decide that it's a life they'd like to live. 

 

And outside of that; I, in real life, as a gamer and fan of the series, cannot think of a more satisfying ending to Solas' story - again, for me, from my perspective - than him being defeated by the Qun. He likes the Inquisitor. Or at least he respects the Inquisitor. If he's defeated by the Inquisitor he's going to accept that with grace and dignity, if with sorrow. But he hates the Qun with every fiber of his being. If he's defeated by the Qun, for the Qun, he will rage. He will seethe. He will spit his last breath at us for hate's sake. 

 

And I would savor every moment of it. 

 

I'm not saying it should be mandatory. I said from the start it should be entirely optional. But it would be an option I would take because it would be the only way to make the confrontation between Solas and the Inquisitor actually satisfying for me. I don't want to have to endure Solas going out like Loghain if you choose to execute him. I want the option to have Solas go out like Howe; cursing us in impotent anger.

 

Or we can just have a game without the Inquisitor as the protagonist and I'll be perfectly satisfied with that.

 

The Qun is no worse than any other faction that thinks they have all the answers. All doctrines are forms of slavery...in Dragon Age that includes the Chantry, the Qun, Dalish religion, and the dwarven caste system. Players likely find converting to the Qun objectionable mostly because it is a new/foreign type of mental bondage. If Dragon Age had taken place in Par Vollen the Qun would be as normal as the Circle of Magi. Similarly IRL people in the West condemn polygamist cults (I'm not baiting a political debate--just citing a handy example that came to mind). We're all accustomed to our own brand of cray cray. I agree being able to choose to ally with/convert Thedas to the Qun as a means of fighting Solas would make for a dramatic final encounter with him. None of my characters would choose that path, but I'd still like to watch someone else play through it on YouTube  ;). Just imagine the depressing epilogue cards. Everything would sing the same again...only it'd be in Qunlat. 


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#1423
Aren

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 Everyone will have opinions you agree and disagree with. Just because someone you don't like says something doesn't mean it's a bad idea, and vice versa. For instance, I agree with some of the things you say; I don't disagree just because it's you! Come on.

I like Solas still i think that what he intend to do is objectively a bad idea unless you do not belong to the altmer elves branch.
I also like very much some of the idea of the Qunari,like strengthen the veil,the stronger it is, the more weak mages will become.

 

Absurd.

 

If Solas disagreed with your PC jumping off a mountain would you do it to spite him? It'd be equally as foolish.

yes,and then open the parachute



#1424
Nefla

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I bet the Qun wouldn't even take a mage convert. Saarebas are only tolerated because they've been beaten down and brainwashed their entire lives. They're firmly under control and are a known element. I think a foreign mage would just be killed immediately like Arvaarad tried to do with Hawke/Bethany/Anders/Merrill.



#1425
Former_Fiend

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I'd like to point out that I did specifically say that the option wouldn't be available for mage inquisitors.