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[Abyss108]

 

One of the core tenets of the Chant of Light is that the Maker will only return once the Chant is sung from all four corners of the world. The official policy on this is that everyone needs to be converted and that those who do not follow the Chant are heathens and heretics. And unlike the Qun, the Chantry has enforced this via genocide, purging Rivani civilians who chose, of their own free will, to remain faithful to the Qun rather than be converted back to Andraste. 

 

The modern Chantry is significantly more lax about the whole thing. Eventually the Qun will get a little more lax, too; indeed they've been pretty lax on the whole thing for the last few hundred years. It's entirely possible their new offensive has nothing to do with converting the masses and might be entirely about stopping Solas from destroying the world. Fact is, we don't know.

 

All of this is entirely irrelevant, however. All I asked for was an option for the Inquisitor to join the Qun. You can hate the Qun all you want, that's fine. You can not think of a single reason for your Inquisitor to join the Qun, that's fine. Your opinion on the Qun is not a legitimate reason to deny the option for others who either feel differently or would like to see that as the progression of their character. 

 

And I view those older versions of the Chantry exactly the same as the Qun. There is nothing to suggest the Qun will get more lax, they are gearing up for an invasion currently. That's just your own wishful thinking based off nothing in the game.

 

The reason not to have the option to join the Qun is because it is an option that is one choice at the start of the game, and then the game turns into a JRPG where you have no choices for your character because the only option allowed is "do what the Qun says".

 

You could possibly have that as a choice at the very end of the game, but it doesn't work for a character you have to play as.

[Former_Fiend]

And I view those older versions of the Chantry exactly the same as the Qun. There is nothing to suggest the Qun will get more lax, they are gearing up for an invasion currently. That's just your own wishful thinking based off nothing in the game.

 

The reason not to have the option to join the Qun is because it is an option that is one choice at the start of the game, and then the game turns into a JRPG where you have no choices for your character because the only option allowed is "do what the Qun says".

 

You could possibly have that as a choice at the very end of the game, but it doesn't work for a character you have to play as.

 

Except the Qun doesn't micromanage every little detail in every situation. Qunari make tactical and strategic decisions. We see this with Tallis and the way she makes decisions and choices on how to handle her missions. We see this with Iron Bull in how he makes decisions and choices on how to handle his missions. Sten made decisions and choices on how to handle his mission. The Arishok made decisions and choices on how to handle his mission.

 

There isn't a "Do what the Qun says" button. There's a set of buttons that go "I interpret the qun to say this, this, or this" and a fourth button that goes "tal'vashoth, but no one's watching so no one will know."

[Abyss108]

Except the Qun doesn't micromanage every little detail in every situation. Qunari make tactical and strategic decisions. We see this with Tallis and the way she makes decisions and choices on how to handle her missions. We see this with Iron Bull in how he makes decisions and choices on how to handle his missions. Sten made decisions and choices on how to handle his mission. The Arishok made decisions and choices on how to handle his mission.

 

There isn't a "Do what the Qun says" button. There's a set of buttons that go "I interpret the qun to say this, this, or this" and a fourth button that goes "tal'vashoth, but no one's watching so no one will know."

 

The Qunari would never put a recent convert in charge of making any kind of decision. You don't even get to be true Qunari if you are a convert, you are vashoth.

[Former_Fiend]

The Qunari would never put a recent convert in charge of making any kind of decision. You don't even get to be true Qunari if you are a convert, you are vashoth.

 

No, you're viddithari.

[Abyss108]

No, you're viddithari.

 

Viddithari is someone is a human/elf/dwarf but follows the Qun.

 

Vashoth is someone who wasn't born to it.

[The Baconer]

Viddithari is someone is a human/elf/dwarf but follows the Qun.

 

Vashoth is someone who wasn't born to it.

 

Viddithari are converts. Vashoth is a term for cow-people who were born outside Qunari society and live outside it. 

 

Besides, "True Qunari" being determined by birth would be anathema to the Qun. 

[Abyss108]

Viddithari are converts. Vashoth is a term for cow-people who were born outside Qunari society and live outside it. 

 

Besides, "True Qunari" being determined by birth would be anathema to the Qun. 

 

OK it's possible I'm misunderstanding how the wiki is using the terms. Qunari is not my best language.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't let you join and then start making major tactical choices for them. 

 

They might not even allow you to keep fighting. Mages would be killed, women would be sent back to the kitchen. Even someone who they did think was already in the right role would probably be sent back to learn what they needed to know, not sent to the front lines. 

[The Baconer]

Doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't let you join and then start making major tactical choices for them. 

 

True.

 

 

They might not even allow you to keep fighting. Mages would be killed, women would be sent back to the kitchen. Even someone who they did think was already in the right role would probably be sent back to learn what they needed to know, not sent to the front lines. 

 

A PC's greatest skill is mass-murder, they would probably stay mass-murderers. In that sense, women would just become men or they would be made Gestapo. Mages would be brain-bleached. 

 

Though, yes, a period of education would probably be mandated. 

[Former_Fiend]

OK it's possible I'm misunderstanding how the wiki is using the terms. Qunari is not my best language.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they wouldn't let you join and then start making major tactical choices for them. 

 

They might not even allow you to keep fighting. Mages would be killed, women would be sent back to the kitchen. Even someone who they did think was already in the right role would probably be sent back to learn what they needed to know, not sent to the front lines. 

 

Well, again, for the third time now, the option wouldn't be available to mage inquisitors. 

 

And women wouldn't be sent back to the kitchen. They'd either be given a benhasrath role that allowed them to keep fighting as women, or they'd be declared aqun athlok and allowed to keep fighting.

 

Qunari place you where you're best suited. If that means pretending a woman is a man to allow them to fight, that's what they'll do.

 

A real life parallel; did you know that Iran, of all places, has the second highest rate of sex changes in the world, after Thailand? Government will pay for the operation and even help you start a business if you undergo a sex change there. Why? Because it's easier for them to treat gay men as women in men's bodies and fix that than it is to deal with the conflict between gay people and their religious beliefs. They've overcome transphobia by sheer force of homophobia. It's really quite amazing.

 

The Qun's very similar in that regard; their belief system insists one thing that reality can defy, so they find a loop hole. A woman who wants to fight, and who is skilled at fighting, isn't denied the right to fight. She's just declared "not a woman". 

 

The Qun wastes nothing.

[Abyss108]

Well, again, for the third time now, the option wouldn't be available to mage inquisitors. 

 

And women wouldn't be sent back to the kitchen. They'd either be given a benhasrath role that allowed them to keep fighting as women, or they'd be declared aqun athlok and allowed to keep fighting.

 

Qunari place you where you're best suited. If that means pretending a woman is a man to allow them to fight, that's what they'll do.

 

A real life parallel; did you know that Iran, of all places, has the second highest rate of sex changes in the world, after Thailand? Government will pay for the operation and even help you start a business if you undergo a sex change there. Why? Because it's easier for them to treat gay men as women in men's bodies and fix that than it is to deal with the conflict between gay people and their religious beliefs. They've overcome transphobia by sheer force of homophobia. It's really quite amazing.

 

The Qun's very similar in that regard; their belief system insists one thing that reality can defy, so they find a loop hole. A woman who wants to fight, and who is skilled at fighting, isn't denied the right to fight. She's just declared "not a woman". 

 

The Qun wastes nothing.

 

If it was that simple Sten wouldn't be so confused by a female warden. An Inquisitor who had declared themselves female for their entire life wouldn't be able to just pretend they were a man.

 

And none of that addresses the issue that they wouldn't put you in a position to make tactical decisions or any kind of choices.

[The Baconer]

If it was that simple Sten wouldn't be so confused by a female warden. An Inquisitor who had declared themselves female for their entire life wouldn't be able to just pretend they were a man.

 

The Qunari have ways to help you with that. 

[Eivuwan]

This is so off topic.

[Former_Fiend]

If it was that simple Sten wouldn't be so confused by a female warden. An Inquisitor who had declared themselves female for their entire life wouldn't be able to just pretend they were a man.

 

And none of that addresses the issue that they wouldn't put you in a position to make tactical decisions or any kind of choices.

 

Sten's just not used to women who fight actually living as women. He only thinks of aqun athlok as men. If they were to accept a female Inquisitor, there'd be a wink and a nod and a statement of "Look, far as we're concerned, you're a dude. Don't rock the boat on that too much and we're good." If that isn't acceptable for the Inquisitor, they get the chance to refuse and not take the offer.

 

And the place I'd place this in the game, essentially the only decision left would be dealing with Solas directly, with choosing the Qun and following it essentially being a "kill Solas" decision, just made a bit early. The Qun may not put you in any tactical command position, but I could see them, in the face of crisis and time, deciding "your role is to kill Solas. Fulfill that role." and siccing you on the Dread Wolf like the attack dog you've become. If you choose to spare Solas after this point, then you've gone tal'vashoth and that factors into your epilogue.

 

 

This is so off topic.

 

Hey, I'm not the one that turned this into a debate on the Qun's merits. All I asked for was an option that would make playing as the inquisitor again tolerable. Everyone else decided to attack it.

[Abyss108]

 

 

And the place I'd place this in the game, essentially the only decision left would be dealing with Solas directly, with choosing the Qun and following it essentially being a "kill Solas" decision, just made a bit early. 

 

As much as I disagree with your incredibly lenient interpretation of the Qun, I'm going to drop that as its not really the topic.

 

But I don't understand how you can hate the Inquisitor so much, yet be OK with playing as them for the sake of one choice made before the final confrontation. 

[Former_Fiend]

Oh, I'd still much, much rather not play as the Inquisitor at all.

 

I'm just saying that if I had to, if there was no other option, then this would be the thing to make it worth it for me. This would be the thing that says "Hey, remember how in the last game your character had no choice but to be this symbol of the Andrastian faith, no matter how much they protested, and how everyone hammered in the point that your character's feelings on the matter meant nothing so long as the people had this symbol to inspire them? Yeah, we're throwing that out the window. Your character can make their own decisions, support who they want to support, join who they want to join. No symbols, no inspiration, no higher calling or purpose. You're here to stop Solas by whatever means and for whatever reasons you want to."

 

If they'd allow you to join the Qun, imagine what all they'd allow prior to that. 

[Abyss108]

Oh, I'd still much, much rather not play as the Inquisitor at all.

 

I'm just saying that if I had to, if there was no other option, then this would be the thing to make it worth it for me. This would be the thing that says "Hey, remember how in the last game your character had no choice but to be this symbol of the Andrastian faith, no matter how much they protested, and how everyone hammered in the point that your character's feelings on the matter meant nothing so long as the people had this symbol to inspire them? Yeah, we're throwing that out the window. Your character can make their own decisions, support who they want to support, join who they want to join. No symbols, no inspiration, no higher calling or purpose. You're here to stop Solas by whatever means and for whatever reasons you want to."

 

If they'd allow you to join the Qun, imagine what all they'd allow prior to that. 

 

So its not the Qun at all, you just want more options, and for other characters to not form their own beliefs about your character that you don't like.

[Former_Fiend]

So its not the Qun at all, you just want more options, and for other characters to not form their own beliefs about your character that you don't like.

 

That's a good part of it. 

 

The other part being, as I said, I cannot imagine anything that would enrage Solas more than being defeated by the Qun, except killing the old gods in their sleep and I don't think that'll be feasible for this game. If he's just beaten by the Inquisitor I'm worried he's just going to accept defeat gracefully and with dignity, and that would take all the satisfaction out of it for me. 

 

Like I said, I want an option that will have Solas react to his defeat the same way Rendon Howe did. If you can think of another way to do that, I'm all ears.

[Abyss108]

That's a good part of it. 

 

The other part being, as I said, I cannot imagine anything that would enrage Solas more than being defeated by the Qun, except killing the old gods in their sleep and I don't think that'll be feasible for this game. If he's just beaten by the Inquisitor I'm worried he's just going to accept defeat gracefully and with dignity, and that would take all the satisfaction out of it for me. 

 

Like I said, I want an option that will have Solas react to his defeat the same way Rendon Howe did. If you can think of another way to do that, I'm all ears.

 

Can't really see that happening no matter what character you play.

[Former_Fiend]

Well, if I wasn't playing the Inquisitor I wouldn't mind so much because if you aren't playing the Inquisitor then the relationship with the Inquisitor and Solas isn't the primary selling point of the game.

[Abyss108]

Well, if I wasn't playing the Inquisitor I wouldn't mind so much because if you aren't playing the Inquisitor then the relationship with the Inquisitor and Solas isn't the primary selling point of the game.

 

Can't really see how that makes a difference for how you think Solas' personality should be...

[Former_Fiend]

Can't really see how that makes a difference for how you think Solas' personality should be...

 

Well, Solas has anger issues. Very serious anger issues; he's probably the angriest companion that we've had except for Anders.

 

If the basis of the game is built around this personal relationship with the Inquisitor, then I would want the ability to push his buttons and play on that anger. And his biggest button, aside from the Grey Wardens, is the Qun.

[Abyss108]

Well, Solas has anger issues. Very serious anger issues; he's probably the angriest companion that we've had except for Anders.

 

If the basis of the game is built around this personal relationship with the Inquisitor, then I would want the ability to push his buttons and play on that anger. And his biggest button, aside from the Grey Wardens, is the Qun.

 

At this point I'm not even sure we played the same game...

[NoForgiveness]

I think someone forgot about Fenris...

[Former_Fiend]

At this point I'm not even sure we played the same game...

 

Well, aside from the part where he brutally murdered a group of people in retaliation for what they did to a spirit, he has multiple banters with Bull, Dorian, and Vivienne, that are laced with various amounts of anger, from contained seething to open outrage. He even goes off on Cassandra at one point when she tries sticking up for the Wardens, and aside from that those two get along fairly well.

 

But...

 

 

I think someone forgot about Fenris...

 

Yeah, I did, actually.

[BansheeOwnage]

Alright, accepting that this argument isn't going to amount to anything other than "yes they would accept the Inquisitor!" "No they wouldn't!" "Yes they would!" with neither of us accepting the other's reasons for our respective interpretations, I'll go back to arguing in favor of the Inquisitor not being the protagonist at all.

 

Though I'm not sure what the point is, given that this thread is bound and determined to argue against anything that would allow me the slightest enjoyment of the game, even in optional form.

For the first part: I wasn't trying to start a circular debate. I just made a small comment about a not-terribly-important thought I had. In fact, I didn't really expect anyone to respond at all.

 

For the second: Well, if people disagree with you, they disagree. Sometimes I'm the one with the unpopular opinion, and it sucks, but what can you do?