1659 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

I can definitely see why some people would join the Qun. People with no hope who live such horrible lives that literally anything would seem better. It you're a slave getting beaten and starved and sleep deprived and raped every day then the Qun starts to look pretty good. However if you lead a normal life say you're a farmer or something, why would you join the Qun? Even if you're not a mage, if you show any kind of individuality or question your assigned role you're brainwashed. You're not allowed to marry or have children, and if you have a child anyway, they rip it away from you at birth. You don't even get to choose who to have sex with. The Qun tells you "you're going to have sex with this person and birth a child which we will immediately kidnap and you will never see again."

Rather interesting that the Qun appeals to the exact same people selling yourself into slavery does: The poor and desperate. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. It's a last resort except for people who are raised under it, since they don't know anything else.

 

Also, I usually forget about the whole love/sex/families/marriage stuff when I'm thinking about how much I hate the Qun. Maybe it's because it was only introduced in DA:I? Anyway, there is enough I don't like about it, but as a (hopeless) romantic, just add that to the list of reasons I'd never, ever join the Qun.

[Former_Fiend]

I get it, you wouldn't take the option if available. 

 

I have no intention of taking the "redeem Solas" option, but that doesn't mean I don't think that option should exist.

[Ryzaki]

The issue with the join the Qun option is none of our PCs really have a reason to take it.

 

They're the elite. Why on earth would they want to lessen their QOL. It doesn't make any sense.

[The Baconer]

The issue with the join the Qun option is none of our PCs really have a reason to take it.

 

They're the elite. Why on earth would they want to lessen their QOL. It doesn't make any sense.

 

I'd hope that some Inquisitors might exist who could make a commitment to something greater than themselves, so to speak. I would just rather that something not be the Qunari. 

[Ryzaki]

I'd hope that some Inquisitors might exist who could make a commitment to something greater than themselves, so to speak. I would just rather that something not be the Qunari. 

 

I dunno. Sacrificing your life is one thing. Giving up you entire way of life is another. But I'm a destroyer

[Eivuwan]

Well, aside from the part where he brutally murdered a group of people in retaliation for what they did to a spirit, he has multiple banters with Bull, Dorian, and Vivienne, that are laced with various amounts of anger, from contained seething to open outrage. He even goes off on Cassandra at one point when she tries sticking up for the Wardens, and aside from that those two get along fairly well.

 

I hardly call that anger issues... He cares for the "spirit" as a dear friend. Just because you don't value a mere spirit the way he does, doesn't mean that there is anything abnormal about him "murdering" a group of people for it. It's a pretty normal reaction in a world where an eye for an eye is the norm. As for the all the banters..., being angry or outraged about certain topics is something that most people can relate to. Anger is a normal feeling and can be unhealthy or healthy depending on how extreme it is. It's not like he smashes someone's car because they sped past him.

[Former_Fiend]

You can build a reason over the course of the game. 

 

Or you can play an Inquisitor who just goes full communist. Someone who's tired of being the elite, being treated better than other people and wants to join a society where people are treated the same, and the only mitigating factors are skill and willingness to get the job done.

 

And whether or not you have magic, but you can play a hardline "magic needs to be controlled" Inquisitor, anyway.

 

There's also the rebellion angle. They've had no choices since they've walked out of the breach; they weren't given a choice on whether or not to join the Inquisition. They weren't given a choice on whether or not to lead the Inquisition. They were hardly given a choice on how to lead the Inquisition, shackled by the chains of command. And they weren't given a real choice in how the Inquisition ended; it's a dog on the leash of the chantry, an organization the Inquisitor has every option to hate, whether the Inquisitor chooses to disband it or not. So to me it's plausible that they just go "Alright, here is my choice. Ataash qunari you motherf*ckers." out of pure spite for the South. You might call that cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why shouldn't that be an option? Why shouldn't we be able to play someone who is bitter to the point of self destruction?

 

Aside from that, why shouldn't we be able to play someone who just legitimately agrees with the Qun's teachings?

 

 

I hardly call that anger issues... He cares for the "spirit" as a dear friend. Just because you don't value a mere spirit the way he does, doesn't mean that there is anything abnormal about him "murdering" a group of people for it. It's a pretty normal reaction in a world where an eye for an eye is the norm. As for the all the banters..., being angry or outraged about certain topics is something that most people can relate to. Anger is a normal feeling and can be unhealthy or healthy depending on how extreme it is. It's not like he smashes someone's car because they sped past him.

 

I'm not saying that anger isn't normal. I'm saying that Solas has a lot of it. Anger and egotism are absolutely aspects of Solas' character. They may not be the aspects that his fans like to focus on, but he is a very angry and very proud man.

 

And if I have to be invested in the conflict between him and the Inquisitor, then I want the option and ability to play on that anger and to break that pride. You want me to take the whole thing personally, alright, fine. But if I am going to take this personally then stopping his plan and killing him is not enough.

[Eivuwan]

You can build a reason over the course of the game. 

 

Or you can play an Inquisitor who just goes full communist. Someone who's tired of being the elite, being treated better than other people and wants to join a society where people are treated the same, and the only mitigating factors are skill and willingness to get the job done.

 

And whether or not you have magic, but you can play a hardline "magic needs to be controlled" Inquisitor, anyway.

 

There's also the rebellion angle. They've had no choices since they've walked out of the breach; they weren't given a choice on whether or not to join the Inquisition. They weren't given a choice on whether or not to lead the Inquisition. They were hardly given a choice on how to lead the Inquisition, shackled by the chains of command. And they weren't given a real choice in how the Inquisition ended; it's a dog on the leash of the chantry, an organization the Inquisitor has every option to hate, whether the Inquisitor chooses to disband it or not. So to me it's plausible that they just go "Alright, here is my choice. Ataash qunari you motherf*ckers." out of pure spite for the South. You might call that cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why shouldn't that be an option? Why shouldn't we be able to play someone who is bitter to the point of self destruction?

 

Aside from that, why shouldn't we be able to play someone who just legitimately agrees with the Qun's teachings?

 

 

 

I'm not saying that anger isn't normal. I'm saying that Solas has a lot of it. Anger and egotism are absolutely aspects of Solas' character. They may not be the aspects that his fans like to focus on, but he is a very angry and very proud man.

 

And if I have to be invested in the conflict between him and the Inquisitor, then I want the option and ability to play on that anger and to break that pride. You want me to take the whole thing personally, alright, fine. But if I am going to take this personally then stopping his plan and killing him is not enough.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't care whether you take it personally or not. I was only speaking up for the fans who do. I am just going to agree to disagree on the anger issues thing because it's just going to turn into a yes no thing.

[Ryzaki]

You can build a reason over the course of the game. 

 

Or you can play an Inquisitor who just goes full communist. Someone who's tired of being the elite, being treated better than other people and wants to join a society where people are treated the same, and the only mitigating factors are skill and willingness to get the job done.

 

And whether or not you have magic, but you can play a hardline "magic needs to be controlled" Inquisitor, anyway.

 

There's also the rebellion angle. They've had no choices since they've walked out of the breach; they weren't given a choice on whether or not to join the Inquisition. They weren't given a choice on whether or not to lead the Inquisition. They were hardly given a choice on how to lead the Inquisition, shackled by the chains of command. And they weren't given a real choice in how the Inquisition ended; it's a dog on the leash of the chantry, an organization the Inquisitor has every option to hate, whether the Inquisitor chooses to disband it or not. So to me it's plausible that they just go "Alright, here is my choice. Ataash qunari you motherf*ckers." out of pure spite for the South. You might call that cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why shouldn't that be an option? Why shouldn't we be able to play someone who is bitter to the point of self destruction?

 

Aside from that, why shouldn't we be able to play someone who just legitimately agrees with the Qun's teachings?

 

If anything that reason would weaken over the course of the game seeing as our protagonists' tend to find their place in the world gets better closer to the end we get.

 

So you want to play a character who's completely naive? Because unless they feel the Saarabas are treated "the same" as everyone else (I.E. They're an idiot) that justification doesn't work.

 

Oh you can always play a hardline anti magic character. However any such Quizzy will have to never use mage companions and now yet another change the devs have to use to accommodate for this playstyle.

 

Because the game would have to be bent around to accommodate for this, you'll probably lose all your companions (especially if you attempt to spread the Qun), and what dev really wants to make practically a second game for a choice that only like 10% (probably less) of people are gonna take? And of course joining the Qun (especially if you still have the mark) would probably just result in your death considering they want to stab Hawke for just having mage companions.

[The Baconer]

So to me it's plausible that they just go "Alright, here is my choice. Ataash qunari you motherf*ckers." out of pure spite for the South. You might call that cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why shouldn't that be an option? Why shouldn't we be able to play someone who is bitter to the point of self destruction?

 

Probably for the same reason there's no "Agree with Solas and go with him" ending in Trespasser. 

[Former_Fiend]

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't care whether you take it personally or not. I was only speaking up for the fans who do. I am just going to agree to disagree on the anger issues thing because it's just going to turn into a yes no thing.

 

Apologies. Frankly screen names tend to blend together after a while and it's hard to keep track of who made what argument. 

 

But for those who were arguing that every Inquisitor needs to take Solas' actions personally and needs to be the one to personally deal with him, that would be my requirement for that being satisfactory. Not just beating Solas, but breaking him utterly.

 

 

If anything that reason would weaken over the course of the game seeing as our protagonists' tend to find their place in the world gets better closer to the end we get.

 

 

Would be a nice change of pace for our protagonist's situation to get progressively worse as the game goes on, then.

 

 

 

So you want to play a character who's completely naive? Because unless they feel the Saarabas are treated "the same" as everyone else (I.E. They're an idiot) that justification doesn't work.

 

Oh you can always play a hardline anti magic character. However any such Quizzy will have to never use mage companions and now yet another change the devs have to use to accommodate for this playstyle.

 

 

 

It's perfectly possible to play the game without ever using a mage companion once you recruit Sera or Bull or Blackwall to fill out the ranks. 

 

And again, the Arvaarad situation is one isolated incident and there is no legitimate reason to believe the whole of the qun would react in the same way, wanting to kill someone for having once spoken to a mage. The current Arishok, Sten from Origins, had several conversations with mages and could have even considered one of them to be his kadan if you had a mage Warden. So the argument of "this one guy wanted to murder Hawke for hanging out with mages" doesn't hold a single drop of water, and you know that.

 

 

 

Because the game would have to be bent around to accommodate for this, you'll probably lose all your companions (especially if you attempt to spread the Qun), and what dev really wants to make practically a second game for a choice that only like 10% (probably less) of people are gonna take? And of course joining the Qun (especially if you still have the mark) would probably just result in your death considering they want to stab Hawke for just having mage companions.

 

Not really. Just whenever the subject of the Qun comes up add in a dialogue option that allows you to agree with them, building up to the eventual choice to convert that wouldn't come until the final stretch, anyway. And see above.

[The Baconer]

And again, the Arvaarad situation is one isolated incident and there is no legitimate reason to believe the whole of the qun would react in the same way, wanting to kill someone for having once spoken to a mage. The current Arishok, Sten from Origins, had several conversations with mages and could have even considered one of them to be his kadan if you had a mage Warden. So the argument of "this one guy wanted to murder Hawke for hanging out with mages" doesn't hold a single drop of water, and you know that.

 

WoT 1 says that bas mages are brain-bleached by default, but I do believe that there is a lot of room for variance in mage interactions, just not at all to the Qunari's credit. For me, it actually makes it worse in all honesty. 

[Former_Fiend]

WoT 1 says that bas mages are brain-bleached by default, but I do believe that there is a lot of room for variance in mage interactions, just not at all to the Qunari's credit. For me, it actually makes it worse in all honesty. 

 

And I'm not saying mage inquisitors would or should be treated differently than that. I'm saying that just because one Arvaarad was a tool does not mean that anyone who ever had a conversation with a mage is going to automatically get shanked by the Qun.

[BansheeOwnage]

I get it, you wouldn't take the option if available. 

 

I have no intention of taking the "redeem Solas" option, but that doesn't mean I don't think that option should exist.

Not all options should be available, sometimes because they're just too extreme, or because they would break the plot.

 

Probably for the same reason there's no "Agree with Solas and go with him" ending in Trespasser. 

Exactly.

 

I dunno. Sacrificing your life is one thing. Giving up you entire way of life is another. But I'm a destroyer

Destroy forever!

[Former_Fiend]

I don't see the option to join the Qun late in the game as being too extreme, and I don't see it as being plot breaking, working under the assumption that if the Inquisitor is the PC of DA4, it will be their last appearance because the only reason they'd be coming back is to deal with Solas, and with Solas dealt with, it really wouldn't matter what the Inquisitor does from there. Whether they retire to the woods, or to Kirkwall, or to Par Vollen to begin training to become the next Arishok/Ariqun.

 

And maybe they do get killed or reeducated or whatever after dealing with Solas. The anti-qun crowd gets another thing to point at for how evil the qun is and I don't have to worry about ever playing as them again, so it's a win/win.

[Ryzaki]

Would be a nice change of pace for our protagonist's situation to get progressively worse as the game goes on, then.

 

 

 

It's perfectly possible to play the game without ever using a mage companion once you recruit Sera or Bull or Blackwall to fill out the ranks. 

 

And again, the Arvaarad situation is one isolated incident and there is no legitimate reason to believe the whole of the qun would react in the same way, wanting to kill someone for having once spoken to a mage. The current Arishok, Sten from Origins, had several conversations with mages and could have even considered one of them to be his kadan if you had a mage Warden. So the argument of "this one guy wanted to murder Hawke for hanging out with mages" doesn't hold a single drop of water, and you know that.

 

 

 

Not really. Just whenever the subject of the Qun comes up add in a dialogue option that allows you to agree with them, building up to the eventual choice to convert that wouldn't come until the final stretch, anyway. And see above.

 

Really?

 

DAO - My CE started off as about to be murdered for a crime she committed. Ended up a Teyrn. Yeah she has the blight but her death would've been assured without the wardens.

 

DA2 - Start off about to be killed by darkspawn, goes on to become Champion and yeah you lose some of your family (or all of it) but that's not as badly off as you were.

 

DAI: Leader of the Inquisition (unless you disband it and in which case you still have the wealth and power you've accumulated).

 

It's all about perspective

 

Yeah once. Before then you're relying on magic. You were also healed by you guessed it magic!

 

I could've sworn there was a topic that pretty much said Sten got reeducated because of that. Also it wasn't one guy. He had a lot of friends (Also it wasn't Sten's job to worry about magic. It was most likely that Avaarad's.)  Also Sten was going native as was Bull. Pretty sure that got straightened out right quick once he got back to Par Vollen.

 

As for a ending post game. What like a slide that shows you joining the Qun? That ending should play out like this:

 

[Former_Fiend]

 

I could've sworn there was a topic that pretty much said Sten got reeducated because of that. Also it wasn't one guy. He had a lot of friends (Also it wasn't Sten's job to worry about magic. It was most likely that Avaarad's.)  Also Sten was going native as was Bull. Pretty sure that got straightened out right quick once he got back to Par Vollen.

 

 

 

 

If you can find a legitimate source on that I'll concede the point. 

 

Won't deter me, though. The Inquisitor being killed off/reeducated after dealing with Solas would take them out of contention for returning in future games, which is what I wanted in the first place.

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't see the option to join the Qun late in the game as being too extreme, and I don't see it as being plot breaking, working under the assumption that if the Inquisitor is the PC of DA4, it will be their last appearance because the only reason they'd be coming back is to deal with Solas, and with Solas dealt with, it really wouldn't matter what the Inquisitor does from there. Whether they retire to the woods, or to Kirkwall, or to Par Vollen to begin training to become the next Arishok/Ariqun.

 

And maybe they do get killed or reeducated or whatever after dealing with Solas. The anti-qun crowd gets another thing to point at for how evil the qun is and I don't have to worry about ever playing as them again, so it's a win/win.

I admit they could do something crazy like joining the Qun or Solas at the very end of a game. It would be equivalent to Shepard dying in ME2, and you could consequently not import that worldstate

[Former_Fiend]

I admit they could do something crazy like joining the Qun or Solas at the very end of a game. It would be equivalent to Shepard dying in ME2, and you could consequently not import that worldstate

 

Or they could have a new protagonist for DA5.

 

Or they could have a new protagonist for DA4, for that matter. 

[Ryzaki]

If you can find a legitimate source on that I'll concede the point. 

 

Won't deter me, though. The Inquisitor being killed off/reeducated after dealing with Solas would take them out of contention for returning in future games, which is what I wanted in the first place.

 

It was years ago on the old boards. But I really am too lazy to dig. Sorry.

 

Or they could just flag that as non canon import. (Like Shep dying in ME2, or Shep dying in arrival).

[Former_Fiend]

It was years ago on the old boards. But I really am too lazy to dig. Sorry.

 

Or they could just flag that as non canon import. (Like Shep dying in ME2, or Shep dying in arrival).

 

Why must you be the screen door on my submarine?

[Ryzaki]

Why must you be the screen door on my submarine?

 

You'd be better off asking for a self sacrifice ending tho. That's more liable to be respected (as in not immediately retconned) than joining the Qun. XD

[Nefla]

Oh, I'd still much, much rather not play as the Inquisitor at all.

 

I'm just saying that if I had to, if there was no other option, then this would be the thing to make it worth it for me.

Don't worry. As much as it sucks for us, I really don't see BioWare letting us play the inquisitor again. We want it, we talk about it and speculate how cool it would be, but it's not going to happen. BioWare intentionally maimed the inquisitor to force them into a backup/non-combat/NPC/advisor role and make room for a new person.

 

They'd never make a game where you have the option of joining the Qun in the beginning either. As an ending slide for a hero that will never show up again? Sure, but playing as a convert to the Qun and playing someone unrelated to the Qun...those would be two very different games. Joining the Qun isn't like joining your local Mabari Groomer's Association where there would simply be a mention here or there. Now if all you wanted was the option of expressing support or sympathy for the Qun or the desire to join it at a later date, that I could see them doing.

[BansheeOwnage]

Don't worry. As much as it sucks for us, I really don't see BioWare letting us play the inquisitor again. We want it, we talk about it and speculate how cool it would be, but it's not going to happen. BioWare intentionally maimed the inquisitor to force them into a backup/non-combat/NPC/advisor role and make room for a new person.

I'm still not convinced of that; I still have hope. I have to! I can't give in Mostly Weekes being lead writer and seeing what he did in Trespasser is giving me hope.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm still not convinced of that; I still have hope. I have to! I can't give in Mostly Weekes being lead writer and seeing what he did in Trespasser is giving me hope.

Unfortunately Weekes is also on record for how much he loves the whole "new protagonist every game" thing. 

 

 

Don't worry. As much as it sucks for us, I really don't see BioWare letting us play the inquisitor again. We want it, we talk about it and speculate how cool it would be, but it's not going to happen. BioWare intentionally maimed the inquisitor to force them into a backup/non-combat/NPC/advisor role and make room for a new person.

If that's the reason why, I'm disgusted by Bioware.