1659 réponses à ce sujet

[d1ta]

Sorry if I didn't read all 60-something pages back, but here goes :

I really feel attached to my Inquisitor so much more than my series of HoFs back in the days of DAO. In fact I was so attached to her that it's getting pretty difficult to play DAI as other than her character. Her name, back ground, class, face sliders, major decision, etc (it's very much like watching your favourite movie over and over again but cant seemed to get tired of it )
Solas happens to be her mentor figure and naturally whom she'd want to prove him personally that he is wrong.

That said, I cannot say that I want her back in DA4 because I'm just waaaayyy too scared of what will BW do to her. Here's why:

1. If she returns in DA4 as a different person with different decision (*cough* ME trilogy. Pro-Alliance crowd got pissed because they got to work for Cerberus in ME2. Pro Cerberus Sheps got angry because they now have to go Alliance) And will either disbanding/keeping the Inquisition factor greatly in DA4? Or will they just sweep it under the rug like the Collector Base (or Morrigan's OGB that only gets a few mentions in a dialogue wheel and a short moment with Flemythal)

2. Will BW messes up with her 'happily ever after'. This, I must admit, is my greatest fear. Will she return only to face a cruel fate somewhere down the line?

3. Naturally for me if my protag makes an appearance, then one of the first thing comes to mind will be of her LI (and I will not lie), would want to have said LI to be back in action again (at the very least have some decent content within them). And looking at the amount of LI's we have on DAI and how their endings can vary greatly from one another, .. yeah ^^' this is SO not going to happen ^^'.

I'm interested in the concept of dual protagonist, however. With the bigger slice of pie being given to the new guy.

But I'm also interested in hearing those who are pro-Inquisitor returning regarding the 3 matter I just listed above.

Thanks

[Nixou]

Why didn't they just leave my PC with they happy ending from the base game then.

 

 

Because Drama and Tragedy are the main ingredients when one writes the story of an Age of Turmoils.

 

***

 

Well, they approved the Mass Effect 3 endings seeing them as good despite what it does to Shepard even when they knew how attached players were. 

 

 

And I for one am very grateful they did: breaking Shepard-the-invincible-Space-Marine-who's-always-right-especially-against-these-pesky-elected-officials rescued the series from the Starship Stormtroopers heap

 

***

 

Honestly, I also just want my Lavellan and Solas to finally be together in some way, shape, or form. Their story is so sad.

 

 

 I'll bet you one brand new blanket that the Redeem path will conclude with Solas dying in the Inquisitor's remaining arm with a smile on his face because he avoided the fate he dreaded the most

[BansheeOwnage]

The Mass Effect 3 ending saved the series for you? Well, that's enough reason for me to ignore every one of your posts from now on. Not that I needed more reasons.

[cindercatz]

I'd honestly like a choice next game, as difficult as that sounds. Like Awakening, you could choose between your old Warden and a new one if your previous Warden ate it.

 

Its just a matter of making the different parts work together. 

1) You have to have an intro-area, almost exactly like Origins had. Each character would need to have that introduction. If its divided just by race, thats Qunari, Dwarf, Elf, Human, and then an intro for the Inquisitor (Maybe 2, 1 for disbanded Inquisition and 1 for a maintained presence.). Thats 5 different "origins" for the game; Not too difficult. Or, it could just be TWO Intros: One for Inquisitor characters, and one for non-inquisitors. 

2) You have to have different dialogue for the characters who know the Inquisitor. Thats not too hard, because they already do that for scenes depending on your race or loyalty levels, etc. The only characters from Inquisition I could see you interacting with would be: Cassandra, Dorian, SOLAS, Harding, possibly Iron Bull depending on your choices with him. Vivienne would not be in Tevinter, Sera would not be, Cole would probably not be (and 50% may not even be in Thedas), Varric is busy with Kirkwall, 

3) People will try to point out that if you kept the Inquisition it would make you too OP: but thats not true. The Inquisition has NO holdings, NO political clout, NO power in Tevinter. You're missing an arm. BAM. There's the origin story for Inquisitor in DA4: You arrive in Tevinter, meet with Dorian, and get hooked up with a new arm. PCHHOOO. You're in business, but you haven't been fighting for yourself for one, two, maybe three years! Ergo you need to get back in practice, build your muscle mass up, get your GAINS going. So you're a low level.

 

Blah blah blah anyways yes I sort of agree/disagree, I think we can both do a new protag and our old one.

That's exactly how they should've handled the Warden in some Inquisition dlc/expansioon. >_< They make it sound like this impossible dream game, but really it's that simple.

[CardButton]

The Inquisitor is a very hands on, lead from the front, gets their own hands dirty type of person. That's what Solas knows. Them taking a step back, working behind the scenes as a chessmaster... well it's not completely out of character because the Wartable is a thing, but that isn't the side of the Inquisitor that Solas is most familiar with. 

 

There's also that level of separation with a new protagonist, assuming they're even working for the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor might give them an objective but the way they tackle that objective could be in a manner the Inquisitor wouldn't, which could throw Solas off the trail.

I'll admit, if I'm forced to play a new PC for DA:4 I really don't want them working for the Inquisitor.  Even if they get to do slight variations on how they would achieve an assignment, they still would only really be a proxy.  A replacement for the Inquisitor, because they are acting as an extension of the Quizzy's will.  Then there is the whole thing getting a little strange when you start considering how exactly the Inquisitor would be contacting the new PC (without Solas' intercepting the messages) and the fact that it would severely inhibit the new PC's backgrounds, because the Inquisitor has no logical reason to shuffle off responsibility to some nobody.  

[BansheeOwnage]

Then there is the whole thing getting a little strange when you start considering how exactly the Inquisitor would be contacting the new PC (without Solas' intercepting the messages) and the fact that it would severely inhibit the new PC's backgrounds, because the Inquisitor has no logical reason to shuffle off responsibility to some nobody.  

Apparently there are devices called sending crystals, presumably from Tevinter, since Dorian gives you one. So agents of the Inquisition, or at least officers, could use them to get real-time updates from command. So sci-fi!

[Heimdall]

Apparently there are devices called sending crystals, presumably from Tevinter, since Dorian gives you one. So agents of the Inquisition, or at least officers, could use them to get real-time updates from command. So sci-fi!

Assuming new protagonist, Dorian will probably be the main point of contact between the PC and the Inquisitor, working with them if not for them.

 

And if we get my favored dual protagonist option, plenty of excuse for both our characters to be completely up to date on what the other is doing.

[AresKeith]

The Inquisitor is a very hands on, lead from the front, gets their own hands dirty type of person. That's what Solas knows. Them taking a step back, working behind the scenes as a chessmaster... well it's not completely out of character because the Wartable is a thing, but that isn't the side of the Inquisitor that Solas is most familiar with. 

 

There's also that level of separation with a new protagonist, assuming they're even working for the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor might give them an objective but the way they tackle that objective could be in a manner the Inquisitor wouldn't, which could throw Solas off the trail.

 

That's kinda why I hope they actually do a dual protag with the Inquisitor as a playerable chessmaster role

[NoForgiveness]

 the Inquisitor as a playerable chessmaster role

[AresKeith]

 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Dean_the_Young]

Assuming new protagonist, Dorian will probably be the main point of contact between the PC and the Inquisitor, working with them if not for them.

 

And if we get my favored dual protagonist option, plenty of excuse for both our characters to be completely up to date on what the other is doing.

 

Hm. That is a possibility- though I doubt they'd invest a full duplicate cast.

 

Perhaps a 'captive' character, who primarily exists in non-combat segments with a much more limited support cast? Like 'Slave in the Archon's Palace,' who gets to move around the palace but doesn't really fight much. Minimum teammates, rather than a full cast.

 

 

Honestly- and I'm ashamed I'm admitting to this- I'm thinking of the Princess Peach segments in Paper Mario. The player, after each boss battle that ended the 'chapter', got a short segment with Peach in which Peach could sneak around and smuggle help for Mario in the next chapter.

[Heimdall]

Hm. That is a possibility- though I doubt they'd invest a full duplicate cast.
 
Perhaps a 'captive' character, who primarily exists in non-combat segments with a much more limited support cast? Like 'Slave in the Archon's Palace,' who gets to move around the palace but doesn't really fight much. Minimum teammates, rather than a full cast.
 
 
Honestly- and I'm ashamed I'm admitting to this- I'm thinking of the Princess Peach segments in Paper Mario. The player, after each boss battle that ended the 'chapter', got a short segment with Peach in which Peach could sneak around and smuggle help for Mario in the next chapter.

Well, the scenario I'm imagining is a bit more like...  Actually kinda similar.  Okay, back in the days of the Gamecube I had a game called Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy.  Sphinx was the primary protagonist, he did all the traveling around, free roaming, and fighting, but at milestone points in the plot you got a canopic jar, then your teleporting magic basket sidekick would take it to the Mummy (Who was trapped in the main villain's fortress) who would be temporarily revived and snoop around in non-combat puzzle sections to reveal more about the main villain and get items to be sent back to Sphinx.

 

Now replace the puzzle sequences with plot+dialogue heavy sequences, in which the inquisitor, connected to Dorian by the sending stone, makes decisions that affect the game world the new PC is exploring (And possibly react to decisions the new PC is making).  There could be puzzles, possibly covert infiltration, wartable-like decisions, but probably no combat.  The new PC would be doing all the stuff we typically expect of a DA protagonist, but this could provide an interesting new perspective while allowing the Inquisitor to take a visible role in pursuing Solas, which a lot of people seem to really want.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, the scenario I'm imagining is a bit more like...  Actually kinda similar.  Okay, back in the days of the Gamecube I had a game called Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy.  Sphinx was the primary protagonist, he did all the traveling around, free roaming, and fighting, but at milestone points in the plot you got a canopic jar, then your teleporting magic basket sidekick would take it to the Mummy (Who was trapped in the main villain's fortress) who would be temporarily revived and snoop around in non-combat puzzle sections to reveal more about the main villain and get items to be sent back to Sphinx.

 

Now replace the puzzle sequences with plot+dialogue heavy sequences, in which the inquisitor, connected to Dorian by the sending stone, makes decisions that affect the game world the new PC is exploring (And possibly react to decisions the new PC is making).  There could be puzzles, possibly covert infiltration, wartable-like decisions, but probably no combat.  The new PC would be doing all the stuff we typically expect of a DA protagonist, but this could provide an interesting new perspective while allowing the Inquisitor to take a visible role in pursuing Solas, which a lot of people seem to really want.

 

Mechanically, I can see it- but functionally, I don't see it being particularly good. I've never been a great fan of the cuts away from the main PC myself.

[Heimdall]

Mechanically, I can see it- but functionally, I don't see it being particularly good. I've never been a great fan of the cuts away from the main PC myself.

Hm, I think it all depends on how interesting they can make it, and they would have to be brief both for the flow of the story and to reduce the cost of employing the number of actors necessary.

[CardButton]

Mechanically, I can see it- but functionally, I don't see it being particularly good. I've never been a great fan of the cuts away from the main PC myself.

Hmm... I was thinking more of a split storytelling element, though it would require cut-aways from both characters at certain progression points and more of a DA:2 style of story telling to pull it off.

 

Namely, the game would be two competing stories that slowly become more intertwined as the game progresses.  For the new PC the focus would be centered around the Social Unrest/Slave Rebellion arc, for the Inquisitor they are dealing with pursuing Solas (or looking for a way to deal with a Demi-God) bringing them to Tevinter and getting help from Dorian.  The Inquisitor would mostly be dungeon diving (like in Inquisition) and the new PC would mostly deal with City Exploration allowing us to get to know both the country and the Capital.  

 

Both character's get to deal with what they are intrinsically related to them and wouldn't have to be forced into a conflicts that don't immediately concern them.  Very little, if any direct interaction between the two characters would occur due to the different level of Tevinter Society they would be effectively working at, though some of their actions may affect the other's goals, either positively or negatively.  In effect, potentially turning the other PC into a faceless, temporary, minor Antagonist for the other.  Each side would have a more compact number of companions since the roster would be split between two groups.  A few could even have to option to side for either PC, effectively locking them from the other.

 

The War with the Qunari would be a huge event and most certainly get both PC's dragged into it, assuming they are both in Tevinter.  It would serve as an effective middle arc and be a great break from the main stories. Both characters would get to deal with their own problems in the War, maybe even meeting for the first time, and ultimately this Arc would be the Catalyst for "Individual PC Stories" to start bleeding together, getting a PC involved in the other's problems, whether they know it yet or not.

 

Final "chapter" would be the conclusion of both of the "PC Stories" and both PC's (and their companions) would play a part in both finale's.  Since Solas is a world altering event (and Tevinter reform is a Nation altering one) the confrontation with Solas would probably be the climax of the game, but perhaps the re-stabilization/reformation of Tevinter is a required precursor to help in his defeat.  This is kind of how I see a dual-protagonist story working for DA:4.  It would keep both characters active and relevant, actually have them both retain combat and RPG game elements, and EVENTUALLY get them both involved in the matters that shouldn't have immediately concerned them.  

[NoForgiveness]

Hmm... I was thinking more of a split storytelling element, though it would require cut-aways from both characters at certain progression points and more of a DA:2 style of story telling to pull it off.

Namely, the game would be two competing stories that slowly become more intertwined as the game progresses. For the new PC the focus would be centered around the Social Unrest/Slave Rebellion arc, for the Inquisitor they are dealing with pursuing Solas (or looking for a way to deal with a Demi-God) bringing them to Tevinter and getting help from Dorian. The Inquisitor would mostly be dungeon diving (like in Inquisition) and the new PC would mostly deal with City Exploration allowing us to get to know both the country and the Capital.

Both character's get to deal with what they are intrinsically related to them and wouldn't have to be forced into a conflicts that don't immediately concern them. Very little, if any direct interaction between the two characters would occur due to the different level of Tevinter Society they would be effectively working at, though some of their actions may affect the other's goals, either positively or negatively. In effect, potentially turning the other PC into a faceless, temporary, minor Antagonist for the other. Each side would have a more compact number of companions since the roster would be split between two groups. A few could even have to option to side for either PC, effectively locking them from the other.

The War with the Qunari would be a huge event and most certainly get both PC's dragged into it, assuming they are both in Tevinter. It would serve as an effective middle arc and be a great break from the main stories. Both characters would get to deal with their own problems in the War, maybe even meeting for the first time, and ultimately this Arc would be the Catalyst for "Individual PC Stories" to start bleeding together, getting a PC involved in the other's problems, whether they know it yet or not.

Final "chapter" would be the conclusion of both of the "PC Stories" and both PC's (and their companions) would play a part in both finale's. Since Solas is a world altering event (and Tevinter reform is a Nation altering one) the confrontation with Solas would probably be the climax of the game, but perhaps the re-stabilization/reformation of Tevinter is a required precursor to help in his defeat. This is kind of how I see a dual-protagonist story working for DA:4. It would keep both characters active and relevant, actually have them both retain combat and RPG game elements, and EVENTUALLY get them both involved in the matters that shouldn't have immediately concerned them.

If it is dual protags. I'd want this. Though I don't give a crap about reforming Tevinter or even Tevinter as setting tbh(though the qunari do interest me). I also think bw needs to stop letting us pick rulers, as clearly they can't handle consequences.

[Former_Fiend]

I'll admit, if I'm forced to play a new PC for DA:4 I really don't want them working for the Inquisitor.  Even if they get to do slight variations on how they would achieve an assignment, they still would only really be a proxy.  A replacement for the Inquisitor, because they are acting as an extension of the Quizzy's will.  Then there is the whole thing getting a little strange when you start considering how exactly the Inquisitor would be contacting the new PC (without Solas' intercepting the messages) and the fact that it would severely inhibit the new PC's backgrounds, because the Inquisitor has no logical reason to shuffle off responsibility to some nobody.  

 

I'm actually rather opposed to us automatically working for the Inquisitor as well because I want to be someone very separated from the Inquisition and it's values. The Inquisition was a tool for order, the Inquisitor was an agent of order. I want to play an agent of change, and I don't want to be shackled to the values of any establishment. I even want to be able to work against the Inquisition's interests in certain situations. 

 

 

Well, the scenario I'm imagining is a bit more like...  Actually kinda similar.  Okay, back in the days of the Gamecube I had a game called Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy.  Sphinx was the primary protagonist, he did all the traveling around, free roaming, and fighting, but at milestone points in the plot you got a canopic jar, then your teleporting magic basket sidekick would take it to the Mummy (Who was trapped in the main villain's fortress) who would be temporarily revived and snoop around in non-combat puzzle sections to reveal more about the main villain and get items to be sent back to Sphinx.

 

Now replace the puzzle sequences with plot+dialogue heavy sequences, in which the inquisitor, connected to Dorian by the sending stone, makes decisions that affect the game world the new PC is exploring (And possibly react to decisions the new PC is making).  There could be puzzles, possibly covert infiltration, wartable-like decisions, but probably no combat.  The new PC would be doing all the stuff we typically expect of a DA protagonist, but this could provide an interesting new perspective while allowing the Inquisitor to take a visible role in pursuing Solas, which a lot of people seem to really want.

 

Off topic, but wow, I haven't thought of that game in years. Never got the chance to play the whole thing, but I remember really enjoying a demo of it. Thanks for bringing back the memories. 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Namely, the game would be two competing stories that slowly become more intertwined as the game progresses.

Ah, reminds me of Halo 2...

[AresKeith]

 

I'm actually rather opposed to us automatically working for the Inquisitor as well because I want to be someone very separated from the Inquisition and it's values. The Inquisition was a tool for order, the Inquisitor was an agent of order. I want to play an agent of change, and I don't want to be shackled to the values of any establishment. I even want to be able to work against the Inquisition's interests in certain situations. 

 

The Inquisitor was an agent of order who could also bring change

[Former_Fiend]

The Inquisitor was an agent of order who could also bring change

 

I was underwhelmed by the "change" the Inquisition could bring. But I suppose that's inevitable; they're always going to have the diverging options not be too far from each other for consistent world states. 

 

The only real option that I consider to bring about real change is putting Leliana on the sunburst throne, and I attribute that more to Leliana's creator's pet status than anything.

[leaguer of one]

I was underwhelmed by the "change" the Inquisition could bring. But I suppose that's inevitable; they're always going to have the diverging options not be too far from each other for consistent world states. 

 

The only real option that I consider to bring about real change is putting Leliana on the sunburst throne, and I attribute that more to Leliana's creator's pet status than anything.

Wait ..what?

 

You can change the ruler of an entire country, how the biggest religious organization functions, an entire order fate is in their hands, and how an entire group of powered people's  fate and free will and that's underwhelming?

 

Any Divine on the throne make huge changes regardless.

[Former_Fiend]

Wait ..what?

 

You can change the ruler of an entire country, how the biggest religious organization functions, an entire order fate is in their hands, and how an entire group of powered people's  fate and free will and that's underwhelming?

 

Any Divine on the throne make huge changes regardless.

 

Eh. Leader of Orlais was a bit of a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation. Several people point out that it really doesn't matter to the common people who's ass is on the throne. Briala being in a position with either Celene or Gaspard helps the elves out a little bit, but aside from that there isn't any change I'd call significant. 

 

The Divine choice has some more impact, but not a whole lot. Cassandra and Vivienne's changes mainly involve the templars and mages and Trespasser asserts that all three end up leaving the College open as an alternative to the Circles so that mitigates their impact. Leliena's the main stand out with the changes she implements towards the clergy itself, opening it up to men and other races and allowing marriage.

 

You can kick the Wardens out of Orlais - I'm assuming they're free to re-establish themselves in Ferelden if they want, it isn't clear on that. But this is a change that can be overturned at any time post-Trespasser via either the Divine or whoever's ruling the Empire, and I imagine it will be when/if another Blight hits.

[Youknow]

I didn't see most responses, but the issue with the new protagonist each game isn't the fact that there's one, it's how the whole setup for how the game is handled. If they'd stop making old characters pack their stuff and move out and run into your new characters, this wouldn't be a problem nearly as much. If I didn't see say... Varric in Inquisition, I wouldn't care about Hawke or his/her friends. It's because I see Varric that I wonder if he knows what everyone else is up to. And it's all sorts of awkward for the writer of the scene, the audience that's familiar with the characters and the audience that isn't familiar with the characters. Because the writer has to dance around branching paths with the characters, but still leave the characters open to cameos for future titles ... maybe... Possibly so they can't have any form of commitment. 

 

Let's say I romanced Iron Bull, if I see Iron Bull in the next game, the writer has to do some fancy dancing to make it make any sort of sense for why Iron Bull isn't WITH the Inquisitor while simultaneously not saying "they broke up," but still needs to leave Iron Bull free to do free Iron Bull stuff for people that see Iron Bull but didn't or aren't in a romance with him. 

[leaguer of one]

Eh. Leader of Orlais was a bit of a "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" situation. Several people point out that it really doesn't matter to the common people who's ass is on the throne. Briala being in a position with either Celene or Gaspard helps the elves out a little bit, but aside from that there isn't any change I'd call significant. 

 

The Divine choice has some more impact, but not a whole lot. Cassandra and Vivienne's changes mainly involve the templars and mages and Trespasser asserts that all three end up leaving the College open as an alternative to the Circles so that mitigates their impact. Leliena's the main stand out with the changes she implements towards the clergy itself, opening it up to men and other races and allowing marriage.

 

You can kick the Wardens out of Orlais - I'm assuming they're free to re-establish themselves in Ferelden if they want, it isn't clear on that. But this is a change that can be overturned at any time post-Trespasser via either the Divine or whoever's ruling the Empire, and I imagine it will be when/if another Blight hits.

True to the common folk don't care but ironicly it does effect them in the long term. How the country progresses is effect by the leader. And how they remain or put to power effect things. It's a long term change.

 

Cassandra's and Vivienne's changes have more impact than just what you posted. Vive spits in the eye of mages not being able to be rulers and Cass makes her forces acctually help people. Through your right about Lili, she does make the most changes.

 

It's not about where they can set up with the wardens. it's about support which they lose from much of the people of thedas. Orlais was their biggest patron. Sure it can be over turn but how much of the order would be left by that time? It would talk generation to happen.

[Former_Fiend]

Still, end of the day one of the major themes of DAI was the importance of the established institutions as a source of stability. Off the top of my head, Dorian's the only character who explicitly suggests that the Chantry is a relic that's best discarded, and Solas encourages Sera to use the Red Jenny organization to overthrow the nobility, but pretty much everyone else hammers in the importance of the Chantry and the Orlesian throne as pillars of authority that hold the whole system together, and how their decline would cause far more harm than good.

 

Even Solas spares the Inquisitor's life under the reasoning that the Inquisition, and by extension, the Inquisitor, has become an institution of stability. Of course they have other motivations if the Inquisitor was a good friend or lover, but for an antagonistic Inquisitor, there's really no reason not to kill them beyond what was stated.

 

The only real exception to this would be the Grey Warden organization, which the game tries it's damnedest to make you think is a relic from a past age, and that their "victory at any cost" mentality is more damaging than it's worth. The only companion who really supports them is Blackwall and that's based on his personal idolization of them. Vivienne and Dorian mock them, Solas hates them, Cassandra damns them with faint praise, and even Sera, who was in Denerim during the Blight, is wary of them. I don't recall Bull having much of an opinion either way, though obviously the demons freaked him out, and Cole is disgusted with their methods. 

 

I think a lot of the Warden stuff is less pro-change and more Bioware turning on their own creation, given that Last Flight was largely geared towards deconstructing the Wardens as an organization. 

 

Sorry, got off on a Warden tangent there because I love the Warden's and Bioware's war against them is really grating on my nerves. Point being, whatever change we can affect, DAI is very much a pro-establishment game. I want DA4 to at the very least, give us the option to be very anti-establishment.