1659 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

I can't imagine playing another 50hrs with my Inquisitor I'm sorry

Besides, I'd rather be dealing with Solas with a clean slate protagonist with not a single bias or any kinds of agenda that comes from having previously known him.

I understand that some people aren't overly fond of the Inquisitor. I like mine well enough, but she's my least favourite protagonist of the three. But that's academic to the supporters of their return, since the reasons we want said return have to do with the story they set up, and not how much we like any given character.

 

As for thoughts on Solas, I wouldn't say fighting beside him for a year makes you biased. It makes you informed, more informed than anyone else in Thedas. And I don't know why having the option to try to redeem him or stop him at all costs (for various reasons) could possibly be worse than any inevitably more simple motivation a new PC would have to stop him.

 

Well, it's not like they can treat them worse than Hawke. 

Unfortunately, they can There are so many ways they could screw up an Inquisitor's motivation for stopping Solas, just as an example. Then they might mess up something totally unforeseen like your opinion of Wardens.

[Former_Fiend]

Blight. Taint.

 

I've been loosely following this thread. However, my primary posting here is more an advice of something to consider and is unrelated to the thread. I've noticed some have been using the term blight and taint interchangeably. Nomenclature is esoteric. Please take into consideration that the blight and taint are not the same thing, thank you.

 

 

As a point they've actually been quietly retconning that for a while now.

 

In Origins the taint was the magical, corruptive force that connected, empowered, and sustained the darkspawn and poisoned everything around them. However they started phasing the term out after Origins due to "taint" being slang for the stretch of skin between the genitals and the anus, which made it hard for a lot of people to take the whole thing seriously.

 

In DA2 you hear the term "tainted" a few times but the toxic nature of the darkspawn is more often referred to as the "corruption".

 

Come DAI they seem to have settled on blight as a substitute; A Blight is the massive war the darkspawn wage after finding one of the Old Gods and turning it into an Archdemon, but "the blight" is used to describe the magical, corruptive force that connects, empowers, and sustains the darkspawn. Corypheus is described as using "blight magic", and that the "blight owns him, but it did not create him", and creatures corrupted by the darkspawn are described as "blighted", not "tainted". 

 

The only time they use "taint" in DAI that I recall is in a bit of graffiti on a boulder launched by a trebuche in the siege of Adamant, where an Inquisition soldier had written "Stick this in your taint, blighty!", likely as an in joke at the silliness the old name carried. 

[Nefla]

Back in my day we called it the "darkspawn sickness" and we liked it!

[Xetykins]

I understand that some people aren't overly fond of the Inquisitor. I like mine well enough, but she's my least favourite protagonist of the three. But that's academic to the supporters of their return, since the reasons we want said return have to do with the story they set up, and not how much we like any given character.
 
As for thoughts on Solas, I wouldn't say fighting beside him for a year makes you biased. It makes you informed, more informed than anyone else in Thedas. And I don't know why having the option to try to redeem him or stop him at all costs (for various reasons) could possibly be worse than any inevitably more simple motivation a new PC would have to stop him.

Well the next protagonist will be informed well enough, one way or another they always do. I just like a new protagonist that has no motivation and less inclined to listen to his bullshit. Anyway at the end of the day, you as a player will still be as informed as you'll ever be.

[nOrio_26]

At the end of Trespasser. The Inquisitor could say 'You don't need to destroy the would, I'll prove it to you!'

 

The only thing a new PC could do is killings Solas.

[Samahl na Revas]

 

As a point they've actually been quietly retconning that for a while now.

 

In Origins the taint was the magical, corruptive force that connected, empowered, and sustained the darkspawn and poisoned everything around them. However they started phasing the term out after Origins due to "taint" being slang for the stretch of skin between the genitals and the anus, which made it hard for a lot of people to take the whole thing seriously.

 

In DA2 you hear the term "tainted" a few times but the toxic nature of the darkspawn is more often referred to as the "corruption".

 

Come DAI they seem to have settled on blight as a substitute; A Blight is the massive war the darkspawn wage after finding one of the Old Gods and turning it into an Archdemon, but "the blight" is used to describe the magical, corruptive force that connects, empowers, and sustains the darkspawn. Corypheus is described as using "blight magic", and that the "blight owns him, but it did not create him", and creatures corrupted by the darkspawn are described as "blighted", not "tainted". 

 

The only time they use "taint" in DAI that I recall is in a bit of graffiti on a boulder launched by a trebuche in the siege of Adamant, where an Inquisition soldier had written "Stick this in your taint, blighty!", likely as an in joke at the silliness the old name carried. 

I've noticed. The problem is it creates confusion, for example reading a persons post and trying to figure out if they are referring to the blight sickness or blight up-rise. Though, until now I did not know why this subtle change had been taking place. Therefore, I will use corruption and try to understand how others are using the term blight. I appreciate your insight.

 

I usually leave the Dragon age forum a short time after completion only to return when the next installment is announced. My departure has been stalled since very little has been announced regarding the next Mass Effect, and my next interest Fallout 4 does not need a great deal of understanding the lore, V.A.T.S little else matters.

 

Thanks again.

[Abyss108]

Well the next protagonist will be informed well enough, one way or another they always do. I just like a new protagonist that has no motivation and less inclined to listen to his bullshit. Anyway at the end of the day, you as a player will still be as informed as you'll ever be.

 

But that's the problem with a new protagonist - they have no motivation. They have spent an entire game building up motivation for the Inquisitor, they are not going to repeat themselves. 

 

And the Inquisitor has no reason to listen to his bullshit, unless you decide they should. Same with a new protagonist. A new protagonist just has less options in how to react because they have no history. 

[Former_Fiend]

See, you say that the new protagonist has no motivation. I say they can have any number of motivations. And I find the argument weak when it's possible for the Inquisitor to have no real motivation beyond "The world needs saving again so I guess I have to do it."

 

And I absolutely think they can write a story that would allow for a new protagonist to decide to spare Solas. They wrote a story that convinced me to spare Loghain without the benefit of a previous game with Loghain playing the part of trusted companion and friend.

 

Aside from that, one of the things I would like about the new protagonist/dual protagonist set up is that I feel, on an objective level, that an Inquisitor who does have a real emotional investment in Solas one way or the other is very ill suited to be the one to deal with him. They're too emotionally wrapped up in it. A new protagonist could have the perspective to tell them "I don't care how good of a lay he was, how special he made you feel, he is a danger to the world and needs to be put down." Or they can say "I know he was your friend/lover and that he betrayed you, but your hatred is blinding you here. We don't need to kill him!"

 

Like I said, it's just me being stuck looking at it from an outsider's perspective, but I just think, as an outsider, that someone as emotionally invested in Solas as some members of the pro-Inquisitor party insist the Inquisitor must be is the last person I think should be involved in stopping him, because their judgment would be compromised. 

[Xetykins]

If they managed to write that the Inquisitor can make big decisions for the wardens (exile,enslave or kill them off on a mission) when not even a Warden him/herself, I'm sure the next one will do just fine for motivations.

[Neria]

The problem with a new protag, is that it only make the next DA4 a second DAI : a story about a nobody who has no connection with the events, who find himself driven to the main conflict, and who save the world because :

1 He doesn't have any choice
2 He too has a wonderful magical tool who can help him save the world
3 There is a Big Bad and nobody can/want to stop him
4 He was paid/trained to resolve this situation
5 Solas killed his friends/family, and he will pay for that

 

We thus obtain another tasteless character, like our dear Inquisitor before the DLC Trespasser. And, honestly, if I were a slave or a magister hired by the Inquisition to fight Solas , I wouldn't say to Inky (or Dorian ) " But of course I will redeem him, I've always dreamed of being a hero !" but rather : " Uh ... This is your ****, guys, and I won't clean it for you... ".

[BansheeOwnage]

Well the next protagonist will be informed well enough, one way or another they always do. I just like a new protagonist that has no motivation and less inclined to listen to his bullshit. Anyway at the end of the day, you as a player will still be as informed as you'll ever be.

Two things:

 

1. This is a roleplaying game. You are under no obligation to listen to Solas. You can disregard him all you want.

 

2. Meta-knowledge is problematic in itself, but in any event, won't be sufficient reason for a new protagonist to alter their objective or perspective in regards to Solas or anything else, since, naturally, they don't know it.

[CardButton]

Well the next protagonist will be informed well enough, one way or another they always do. I just like a new protagonist that has no motivation and less inclined to listen to his bullshit. Anyway at the end of the day, you as a player will still be as informed as you'll ever be.

Yup, because you know what makes up for compelling story telling (or at least the chance of it)?  Exposition!  Lots and Lots of Exposition!  Nothing connects a main Protagonist with an Antagonist in a story quite like giant dialogue walls.  Also no motivation to listen to his BS?  Is your new PC a betting man/woman? Because I'm pretty sure that they're going to lose if they're betting Solas at this point of the game is full of nonsense, or even cares enough to lie to some nobody in Tevinter (or even show himself to that nobody in the first place). 

 

Solas prefers to work from the shadows.  Solas would prefer the world remain in a state of peace for the brief amount of time left before he brings down the Veil (he says this specifically), it is therefore doubtful that he would trigger a war or support a slave revolution in Tevinter.  Solas is unwilling to save his Lavellan LI (if there is one) and if he is unwilling to save the Elf he cares most about in THIS world, he has no intention of saving any of the Elves of Thedas.  They are not his people, his core goal is to save the Elvhen.  He has little to no reason to show himself in public, nor do anything that would oust himself unless absolutely necessary (and can at will Petrify if it does become necessary, leaving no witnesses).  This type of character setup makes it very difficult for an Antagonist to be connected to a New Protagonist (without breaking the Antagonist's character).

 

And for those of you who think Solas isn't going to play a big part in the next game, I wish you luck on that.  The dude has openly admitted he plans to END THE WORLD to save his own.  Every other conflict then becomes superfluous unless it ends up supporting in the pursuit of stopping him (in one way or another), because they all pale in comparison to the threat he represents and will in no way matter if he succeeds.  The Sword of Damocles is already hung above the throne, its not going anywhere and cannot simply be ignored or shuffled aside so people can play around in a sandbox for a while.  

[Former_Fiend]

There's going to be lots of exposition either way. If they bring over the Inquisitor they're still going to have to fully explain the Inquisitor's relationship and history with Solas for the benefit of new players.

 

That's not so much an argument for or against, just a simple reality of the situation.

[Xetykins]

Yup, because you know what makes up for compelling story telling (or at least the chance of it)?  Exposition!  Lots and Lots of Exposition!  Nothing connects a main Protagonist with an Antagonist in a story quite like giant dialogue walls.  Also no motivation to listen to his BS?  Is your new PC a betting man/woman? Because I'm pretty sure that they're going to lose if they're betting Solas at this point of the game is full of nonsense, or even cares enough to lie to some nobody in Tevinter (or even show himself to that nobody in the first place). 
 
Solas prefers to work from the shadows.  Solas would prefer the world remain in a state of peace for the brief amount of time left before he brings down the Veil (he says this specifically), it is therefore doubtful that he would trigger a war or support a slave revolution in Tevinter.  Solas is unwilling to save his Lavellan LI (if there is one) and if he is unwilling to save the Elf he cares most about in THIS world, he has no intention of saving any of the Elves of Thedas.  They are not his people, his core goal is to save the Elvhen.  He has little to no reason to show himself in public, nor do anything that would oust himself unless absolutely necessary (and can at will Petrify if it does become necessary, leaving no witnesses).  This type of character setup makes it very difficult for an Antagonist to be connected to a New Protagonist (without breaking the Antagonist's character).
 
And for those of you who think Solas isn't going to play a big part in the next game, I wish you luck on that.  The dude has openly admitted he plans to END THE WORLD to save his own.  Every other conflict then becomes superfluous unless it ends up supporting in the pursuit of stopping him (in one way or another), because they all pale in comparison to the threat he represents and will in no way matter if he succeeds.  The Sword of Damocles is already hung above the throne, its not going anywhere and cannot simply be ignored or shuffled aside so people can play around in a sandbox for a while.

Like the amount of exposition they had for the Inquisitor when dealing with Cory? Oooor shimmying down the deepest of the deep roads without a single warden in tow?

I understand perfectly how Solas could play a big role for the next da and his threat. It is exactly because of that threat that I'd like to deal with him without bias, with a clear head, and with a different motivation. Like for example a protagonist with close families to protect ( cliche i know but bioware can write some other things) from Solas. See, the inquisitor does not have that or if they have like the noble, they feel so distant that they might not have existed at all. Hell even the elf hardly even gave 2 winks for their fallen people.

I understand why you want to deal with solas with your inquisitor and that's understandable. Understand also that others has different ideas.

Also as I've stated before. How would they deal with the LI's? Everyone who has different LI's are going to scream for them. Are they going to bring everyone back and maybe just maybe 1 or 2 new companions if they're lucky? Personally, I'd like a whole new set of companions. I do not mind 1 returning but let the rest be new.

So yeah a small cameo with the inquisitor when the new protagonist deals with solas is probably the best way to go, for me personally, because it will not be DA4 but DAI: part deux.

Just my humble opinion.

[Nixou]

Also as I've stated before. How would they deal with the LI's? Everyone who has different LI's are going to scream for them.

 

 

Actually, if/when they bring back the Inquisitor, I certainly hope that their Love Interest won't be following them like a Mabari pup:

 

After Trespasser, each potential Love Interest have their own life to lead:

 

• Cassandra's busy leading the Chantry and/or rebuilding the Seekers
• Josephine's taking over the family's trade ventures
• Blackwall's travelling through the land as a Warden or under his real name
• Bull's still leading the Chargers
• Dorian's back trying to turn the Magisterium into a somewhat progressive institution
• Sera is planting arrows in nobles' asses with her Jennies

 

And it's always the Inquisitor who either moved in or travelled together with their Lover/Wife/Husband, not the other way around.

[Miltialdes]

I am more attached to the old game when you can upload your previous character in the next game. Eye of beholder, pool of radiance, ultima, etc.... then the story of the character(s) is your story. That is the essence of a role-playing.

 

Maybe Bioware prepare us to an assemblage of all the heroes to save the world. Because when we see the level of power of Solas, he is omnipotent and his science/knownledge is far away from other people in the world of Teldas. You need power to eliminate an entity like him. Following the prophetie of Sondal, it seems that Solas will have success in the process . But I dream to an assemblage of heroes of Theldas to avoid the end of the world.

 

Imagine a team with the Warden, Oghren, Sten, Leilanna, Morigane, Hawke, Aveline, Cassandra, Zevran, the Inquisitor etc... versus a worlwide threat .... it will be a clash of titans. I buy immediatly and I can give a lot of money to have story with such assemblage versus Solas or the other fake elfe gods to save the world.

[CardButton]

Like the amount of exposition they had for the Inquisitor when dealing with Cory? Oooor shimmying down the deepest of the deep roads without a single warden in tow?

I understand perfectly how Solas could play a big role for the next da and his threat. It is exactly because of that threat that I'd like to deal with him without bias, with a clear head, and with a different motivation. Like for example a protagonist with close families to protect ( cliche i know but bioware can write some other things) from Solas. See, the inquisitor does not have that or if they have like the noble, they feel so distant that they might not have existed at all. Hell even the elf hardly even gave 2 winks for their fallen people.

I understand why you want to deal with solas with your inquisitor and that's understandable. Understand also that others has different ideas.

Also as I've stated before. How would they deal with the LI's? Everyone who has different LI's are going to scream for them. Are they going to bring everyone back and maybe just maybe 1 or 2 new companions if they're lucky? Personally, I'd like a whole new set of companions. I do not mind 1 returning but let the rest be new.

So yeah a small cameo with the inquisitor when the new protagonist deals with solas is probably the best way to go, for me personally, because it will not be DA4 but DAI: part deux.

Just my humble opinion.

RIGHT!!!!! Just like how they had the Inquisitor dealing with Cory!  Having a new PC get to deal with the Antagonist related to a previous PC and Game detracted from the quality of both of them.  Regardless of how connected the new PC would be to the events of Tevinter its very unlikely that Solas will be anything short of the End Game Antagonist (simply because of the scope of what he is trying to accomplish).  In essence this is the Cory situation all over again, why tempt a repeat of it?  

 

LI's and Companions are a valid points against the return of the Inquisitor (though I don't see any companions returning as Followers regardless of the PC), but remember many anti-Inquisitor people also use the  Pseudo-Optional" Inquisitor's relationship with Solas as reason for them not to return. Arguing for a new PC because of the potential for "optional" relationships, while simultaneously arguing against a returning PC because of a mostly optional relationship seems strange to me.  Not right or wrong, just strange...  Realistically the setting wont change much regardless of the PC because it is so far removed from Southern Thedas most of the Inquisitor's decisions wont carry over anyway.  Outside of the Quizzie's relationships with Dorian and Solas only two choices would really play a part (Save/Stop Solas and Disband/Retain the Inquisition). 

 

I think in short what these type of discussions boil down to is this: Those who believe it is easier/better to write a returning protagonist to match a new Setting VS those who believe it is easier/better to write a new protagonist to match a returning Villain.  While I do have my preferences I honestly don't know the answer to this dilemma, which is why I find myself rooting more for Dual-PCs at this point. 

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

See, you say that the new protagonist has no motivation. I say they can have any number of motivations. And I find the argument weak when it's possible for the Inquisitor to have no real motivation beyond "The world needs saving again so I guess I have to do it."

 

(Snip)

 

Aside from that, one of the things I would like about the new protagonist/dual protagonist set up is that I feel, on an objective level, that an Inquisitor who does have a real emotional investment in Solas one way or the other is very ill suited to be the one to deal with him. They're too emotionally wrapped up in it. A new protagonist could have the perspective to tell them "I don't care how good of a lay he was, how special he made you feel, he is a danger to the world and needs to be put down." Or they can say "I know he was your friend/lover and that he betrayed you, but your hatred is blinding you here. We don't need to kill him!"

 

Like I said, it's just me being stuck looking at it from an outsider's perspective, but I just think, as an outsider, that someone as emotionally invested in Solas as some members of the pro-Inquisitor party insist the Inquisitor must be is the last person I think should be involved in stopping him, because their judgment would be compromised. 

 

I did not want to just "like" without an explanation. While I am firmly in the "bring the Inquisitor back" camp - well, actually more like "I think the Inquisitor has enough of a potential now to make for a really unique and interesting protagonist" and "I am getting serious protagonist whiplash, godsdammit, BioWare, commit to something already" camps, but those do not roll off the tongue as well - I do have to admit the above does sound intriguing.

[Ariella]

The problem with a new protag, is that it only make the next DA4 a second DAI : a story about a nobody who has no connection with the events, who find himself driven to the main conflict, and who save the world…

And how is this really different from any other game in the series?

The Warden and Hawke were nobody until fate intervened.

And all the characters had a reason for being at the Conclave. Just because we don't get detailed background doesn't mean they were disconnected from events.

Bilbo had no good reason to go off on the crazy adventure. He had nothing invested in retaking Lonely Mountain. But he goes.

Ordinary people do end up doing extrodinary things all the time. If you want good examples take a look Audie Murphy. World War 2 Medal of Honor recipient. He was the son of a sharecropper.

It's possible that the new PC doesn't stumble into it like Hawke, but is recruited like the Warden.

Former_Fiend is right, the Inquisitor has too much invested in Solas one way or another to be objective. Add to that any new PC will most likely be from Northern Thedas so we'll be seeing things with fresh eyes rather than the same old connections.

This game has never been about one person, but the hundred year period called the Dragon Age.

[JadeDragon]

Everybody saying the new pc has no motivation to be in DA4 but from my understanding we got a hint at the end of the dlc that qunari are about to invade. If the pc is native to tevinter protecting there homeland seems like enough for me. Lets not assume solas is the 1st act villain if villain at all. This is not Dread wolf age. Dragon age has always had multiple plots that expand into future games with a new pc. Hawke had more of a reason to be at the conclave and fight the elder one but we got a new pc and it worked out because of writing. And that same writing can make a new pc make sense for DA4. if DA4 starts off centered around the qunari war then it makes more sense for a new pc because like many argue the inquisitor focus is solas and stopping him every other plot line wouldn't make sense other then i was in the country so why not. I don't see what's wrong with having a new pc as usual because it is dragon age with new companions and romances and new personality not being tied down by a previous game and allow the inquisitor to enter only when its time to hunt solas after the new pc has made there claim to hero fame by stopping the invasion and reforming tevinter.By then they would have proved to dorian this is the person we need follows up by contacting inquisitor and boom make them a temp companion we can control in dialogue and combat.

[Nefla]

I'd like to think that we're going to Tevinter not to find some random guy that "Solas doesn't know" (you wouldn't have to go to Tevinter for that) but to find some magical means of stopping him and since Solas hates Tevinter, to operate in relative freedom from him. Corypheus had stunned Solas with the fact that he'd been able to make himself immortal, survive the explosion, and ruin Solas' plans, maybe Tevinter has more up it's sleeve that we can take advantage of? Maybe we an piece together how to make our own eluvians, strengthen the veil, etc...

[Nefla]

Everybody saying the new pc has no motivation to be in DA4 but from my understanding we got a hint at the end of the dlc that qunari are about to invade. If the pc is native to tevinter protecting there homeland seems like enough for me. Lets not assume solas is the 1st act villain if villain at all. This is not Dread wolf age. Dragon age has always had multiple plots that expand into future games with a new pc. Hawke had more of a reason to be at the conclave and fight the elder one but we got a new pc and it worked out because of writing. And that same writing can make a new pc make sense for DA4. if DA4 starts off centered around the qunari war then it makes more sense for a new pc because like many argue the inquisitor focus is solas and stopping him every other plot line wouldn't make sense other then i was in the country so why not. I don't see what's wrong with having a new pc as usual because it is dragon age with new companions and romances and new personality not being tied down by a previous game and allow the inquisitor to enter only when its time to hunt solas after the new pc has made there claim to hero fame by stopping the invasion and reforming tevinter.By then they would have proved to dorian this is the person we need follows up by contacting inquisitor and boom make them a temp companion we can control in dialogue and combat.

-Why should we assume that Solas or the Qunari invading would be given any more care and attention than the mage/templar war?

 

-Many of us thought that DA:I was poorly written and that the story and villain were generic and boring. Another "special snowflake chosen one" saves the world from an ancient evil because it needs saving and no one else can do it. There was no personal motivation.

[In Exile]

I'd like to think that we're going to Tevinter not to find some random guy that "Solas doesn't know" (you wouldn't have to go to Tevinter for that) but to find some magical means of stopping him and since Solas hates Tevinter, to operate in relative freedom from him. Corypheus had stunned Solas with the fact that he'd been able to make himself immortal, survive the explosion, and ruin Solas' plans, maybe Tevinter has more up it's sleeve that we can take advantage of? Maybe we an piece together how to make our own eluvians, strengthen the veil, etc...

The Inquisition (or the post-Inquisition gang) is going to Solas to stop him, because he's going to Tevinter. Recruiting a new anti-Solas team is an unrelated goal.

[In Exile]

-Why should we assume that Solas or the Qunari invading would be given any more care and attention than the mage/templar war?

-Many of us thought that DA:I was poorly written and that the story and villain were generic and boring. Another "special snowflake chosen one" saves the world from an ancient evil because it needs saving and no one else can do it. There was no personal motivation.

If you think DAI is about a generic chosen one, you missed the point. That said, I think Bioware did a bad job in executing their story. But the whole point of DAI was to deconstruct the chosen one story, because the Inquisitor isn't one (and Corypheus is barely the villain).

[Former_Fiend]

I don't necessarily like the idea of needing some MacGuffin to stop Solas. We don't know that he can't just be killed, all we know about his power is that he can spam the petrification spell.

 

I'm also especially not interested in the idea of the Inquisitor dropping the old team and recruiting a new team to go after Solas because I just watched the Expendables 3 recently and I don't want DA4 to do anything that reminds me of that movie. Unless it involves casting Antonio Banderas as a hilarious side character or Mel Gibson as a wonderfully over the top villain. Those two ere the only bright spots in that.