1659 réponses à ce sujet

[Smudjygirl]

I agree.  I've long said that Sun Li is Bioware's best villain because they were able to build up a personal connection effectively.  Having the Inquisitor running the fight and possibly appearing at the final confrontation seems like enough to me though.

 

But it's probably too soon to make judgments about how the new character might factor in.  My expectation is that the new PC will be manipulated to start with, not realizing who they're working for or who they're truly fighting against.  The Qunari invasion makes this more complicated, there are going to be multiple plots going on.  I actually hope to learn more about the Old Gods and the Great Dragons in the next game, maybe work something in about the Kossith (Tevinter and Qunari being an intersection of all things dragon related).  I'm very interested in all these things but unsure how Solas could work into them.  So...  Yeah, I don't know.  There's a lot I want to see in DA4 beyond Solas.

 

Very true. We'll see. I feel we'll see Solas soon, though. "Few" years is never a long time

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Please, if anything there is less logic to continue this cycle of Random Nobody #364793 please step forward. The only people grasping at straws are people who fail to see how important this is, for the Setting, for the Characters, and for this Franchise. This is not Final Fantasy, where every game is totally and completely segregated from each other. They are all linked, connected to a greater whole. But many people want these games to remain as segregated as possible, I assume so their precious Head Canon remains undisturbed. I am more concerned about the ACTUAL canon of this Setting, not fairy tale nonsense the fans make up themselves.  

 

Life in general is random. Just because two people have a rivalry doesn't mean they'll be there when it all ends. I'm glad Bioware keeps it about the setting and not a certain person like ME. So it makes perfect sense someone random will be there when Solas bites the dust.

[Heimdall]

I agree.. and another thing that concern me is that they would give us another noob who doesn't know a single thing about the lore.
If I find myself asking AGAIN the same questions about the wardens, the calling, the qun, the tranquils,the fade and so on I think I am going to scream.

Those questions will still be there. Believe it or not, some people will start the series on the latest release and Bioware can't make it completely unaccessable.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Those questions will still be there. Believe it or not, some people will start the series on the latest release and Bioware can't make it completely unaccessable.

 

I would never be able to do such a thing. I had to play again TW1 and TW2 before starting TW3 because I had totally forgotten the story and I refuse to play Fallout Series because I have still to play the first game. For me is always all or none but I know: to each his own.

 

At any rate, I don't remember Shepard asking again about something he already knew, and the game was still accessible to new players, therefore I am not really sure that those questions are really required.

[Smudjygirl]

Those questions will still be there. Believe it or not, some people will start the series on the latest release and Bioware can't make it completely unaccessable.

 

Plus, the lore sometimes changes a little, or people discover more. As much as i don't like being told what i already know, sometimes those questions offer things i didn't.

[AresKeith]

I've mentioned this before, but I'm very curious, because the fact that the Inquisitor always lives and is physically altered leaves a lot of room to rework the character and restructure the entire gameplay to accommodate it, which was never something that could really be true for either Hawke or the Warden. It's basically a sort of skill reset without the silly death like in ME2. I still don't expect the Inquisitor to return as a playable character….yet I can't help but feel like this setup really allows it. 

 

Yep, I actually do expect the Inquisitor to return at some point. Especially when Bioware mentioned the idea of playing as multiple protags in future games

[MaxQuartiroli]

Plus, the lore sometimes changes a little, or people discover more. As much as i don't like being told what i already know, sometimes those questions offer things i didn't.

 

I agree with you that being able to expand the knowledge of something is a good thing. In DA:I we could knew many new things about Tevinter, maybe many of them were already in the codex but hearing them "in the game" is way better. Same thing for the Fade and all the other things concerning spirits and demons. But I was talking about the BASICS questions, like "What is the calling and what does it do?" or "what are the fundaments of the Qun?"

[Abyss108]

Life in general is random. Just because two people have a rivalry doesn't mean they'll be there when it all ends. I'm glad Bioware keeps it about the setting and not a certain person like ME. So it makes perfect sense someone random will be there when Solas bites the dust.

 

Life might be random, but that doesn't mean a good story is. In reality a persons exciting life story might simply end because they tripped and hit their head. Doesn't mean the next game should end with Solas just falling off a cliff. Not unless the Inquisitor pushes him off that cliff after an epic fight scene.

[Smudjygirl]

I agree with you that being able to expand the knowledge of something is a good thing. In DA:I we could knew many new things about Tevinter, maybe many of them were already in the codex but hearing them "in the game" is way better. Same thing for the Fade and all the other things concernign spirits and demons. But I was talking about the BASICS questions, like "What is the calling and what does it do?" or "what are the fundaments of the Qun?"

 

Yeah, but those kinds are specifically for new players, and i'd hate for them to be excluded completely.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Yeah, but those kinds are specifically for new players, and i'd hate for them to be excluded completely.

 

Like I said I don't remember Shepard asking "What is Genophage?" or "Why Geth and Quarians are at war?" in ME3, but this didn't make the game unaccessible for new players.

 

I mean, when you jump into a saga which is already ongoing I don't think that you expect that they explain you everything everytime, but you already know that there are some "basics" knowledges that are taken for grant. The ability of the writers in that case is to be able to not "penalize" players who don't know them, and this means that they must make them "understandable" trough the story and not by creating a noob character who have to learn everything from the scratch so that they can teach the basics with the same old questions.

[Smudjygirl]

Like I said I don't remember Shepard asking "What is Genophage?" or "Why Geth and Quarians are at war?" in ME3, but this didn't make the game unaccessible for new players.

 

I mean, when you jump into a saga which is already ongoing I don't think that you expect that they explain you everything everytime, but you already know that there are some "basics" knowledges that are taken for grant. The ability of the writers in that case is to be able to not "penalize" players who don't know them, and this means that they must make them "understandable" trough the story and not by creating a noob character who have to learn everything from the scratch so that they can teach the basics with the same old questions.

 

I think the intention to keep the stories separate yet connected is what's coming into play, there. Shepard is Shepard, and their story is continuous. It's easy to pick up what has been going on by listening to them and those they speak to (and i played the 3rd game 1st). But that's much more difficult to do with a character who literally doesn't know anything about the intricacies of previous events, those have to be given by someone who was there.

[whiteravenxi]

Yeah, but those kinds are specifically for new players, and i'd hate for them to be excluded completely.

 

They wouldn't be. They have access to wikis, Let's Plays, video cuts of entire games. There are a lot of ways to get caught up on a series outside of just playing the previous game nowadays. Existing players shouldn't be punished, nor should the story have to suffer because a new player hasn't played any of the games. It works both ways. Bioware can even do a mini recap, and not to mention the videos in the Keep are really good.

 

Besides, they have us. If any of my friends wanted to drop in, now with Trespasser DLC, I can wholeheartedly agree playing through Dragon Age: Inquisition first and just asking me questions around lore from the past games.

[Smudjygirl]

They wouldn't be. They have access to wikis, Let's Plays, video cuts of entire games. There are a lot of ways to get caught up on a series outside of just playing the previous game. Existing players shouldn't be punished, nor should the story have to suffer because a new player hasn't played any of the games. It works both ways. Bioware can even do a mini recap, and not to mention the videos in the Keep are really good.

 

Going over stuff you may have forgotten isn't a punishment. I spend a lot of time on the Wiki, but i can see some new people being confused by it. There has to be a medium, we can't have no recap, that would be bad for pretty much everyone.

[whiteravenxi]

Going over stuff you may have forgotten isn't a punishment. I spend a lot of time on the Wiki, but i can see some new people being confused by it. There has to be a medium, we can't have no recap, that would be bad for pretty much everyone.

 

For sure and I agree with you. I'm just saying a story shouldn't be held back nor should it get swept sideways for another new story because of a fear that X newbie hasn't played the previous entries. Then we'd never have any true sequels. Narrative driven gaming is better than ever. Bioware has a real opportunity here with the Inquisitor and Solas to pull out all the stops because the stage is already set.

 

We could see the greatest villain / hero relationship in a video game narrative to date. The implications of how Solas played the Inquisitor, casts this game in an entirely new light. We were used, every step of the way. I'm invested both in my hero AND the villain. Such a rare treat. Solas is far from the moustache curler that Corypheus was. He's multi-faceted and part of me completely understands what he's doing.

 

The conflict is even richer if you romanced him. 

 

I'm praying to the Maker the writing team at Bioware doesn't waste this chance.

[Heimdall]

Going over stuff you may have forgotten isn't a punishment. I spend a lot of time on the Wiki, but i can see some new people being confused by it. There has to be a medium, we can't have no recap, that would be bad for pretty much everyone.

This is something Inquisition got flack for actually.  Not knowing the lore and history, its very abrupt and confusing.  The only intro is Cassandra's awkwardly forced explanation of events while leading the Herald out of the dungeon.

 

Personally I'd like to see something like the illustrated intro to Origins again.

[Heimdall]

For sure and I agree with you. I'm just saying a story shouldn't be held back nor should it get swept sideways because of a fear that X newbie hasn't played the previous entries. Then we'd never have any true sequels.

A few questions don't do that though.

 

I think Mass Effect did something good with it though, where it would have a question option that wold say "Tranquil?" but the words the PC says would be "The Tranquil are cut off from the Fade and their emotions, so..."  So the character doesn't look like an idiot.

 

There are some cases though where the new PC simply won't have access to some knowledge.  The Calling, for example, isn't a secret exactly but neither is it common knowledge.

[Smudjygirl]

This is something Inquisition got flack for actually.  Not knowing the lore and history, its very abrupt and confusing.  The only intro is Cassandra's awkwardly forced explanation of events while leading the Herald out of the dungeon.

 

Personally I'd like to see something like the illustrated intro to Origins again.

 

I would guess so. I'd hate to be lost in a game i should be immersed in

 

For sure and I agree with you. I'm just saying a story shouldn't be held back nor should it get swept sideways because of a fear that X newbie hasn't played the previous entries. Then we'd never have any true sequels.

 

Ah, i see your point. I agree, the constant going over of information does hold stuff back, but they can't not do it with new PC's because the protag isn't omniscient so it also wouldn't make sense in game to not be like "Who the hell is Zevran!?"

[TheRevanchist]

I agree.  I've long said that Sun Li is Bioware's best villain because they were able to build up a personal connection effectively.  Having the Inquisitor running the fight and possibly appearing at the final confrontation seems like enough to me though.

 

But it's probably too soon to make judgments about how the new character might factor in.  My expectation is that the new PC will be manipulated to start with, not realizing who they're working for or who they're truly fighting against.  The Qunari invasion makes this more complicated, there are going to be multiple plots going on.  I actually hope to learn more about the Old Gods and the Great Dragons in the next game, maybe work something in about the Kossith (Tevinter and Qunari being an intersection of all things dragon related).  I'm very interested in all these things but unsure how Solas could work into them.  So...  Yeah, I don't know.  There's a lot I want to see in DA4 beyond Solas.

 

I would love to say they would use DA4 to build up the new guy, then use DA5 to use that new guy against Solas. Sadly this is unlikely to happen, because people insist on pumping Heroes out of conveyor belts rather than take time to craft them.

 

Of course I would love to also believe that Bioware has been trolling us for years. That in reality they are waiting until they get enough PCs In Universe to make an entire Companion List out of for the Penultimate Game then have all the PCs join forces and destroy everything that threatens the world like a violent wave of death. But no, these are all horrible ideas. Much better to keep repeating the exact same Rag to Riches power fantasy over and over again.

Modifié par TheRevanchist, 11 septembre 2015 - 06:42 .

[Tielis]

I really miss the days of games that are one complete story.  I hate this cliffhanger nonsense.  It cheapens everything, because they have to work around who lived/died, choices that were made, blah blah blah.

 

Heck, I would have liked it more if each game was a different Age.  That way we could get complete stories instead of this "pay to hear the next chapter" crap.  Think about how much money we have to spend just to get closure.  I feel like EA's mark instead of a customer.

[Smudjygirl]

I really miss the days of games that are one complete story.  I hate this cliffhanger nonsense.  It cheapens everything, because they have to work around who lived/died, choices that were made, blah blah blah.

 

Heck, I would have liked it more if each game was a different Age.  That way we could get complete stories instead of this "pay to hear the next chapter" crap.  Think about how much money we have to spend just to get closure.  I feel like EA's mark instead of a customer.

 

Cliffhanger's aren't bad if the loose ends are tied together. But that's not happening very well in this, it seems.

 

Solas somewhat challenges the Inquisitor to be the one to find and stop him, but that' so unlikely to happen

[Fearsome1]

During my time with each entry in this series, I've totally immersed myself in that character, and I always miss them as we move on. Still, for the aspects of choice involving the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor too, it actually does make the most sense to simply have a new protagonist for each game and I really hope that Bioware never waivers from this, their stated intention. Those gamers who grasp at straws trying to suggest logic for why this is wrong-minded, have my sympathy, but not my support! 

 

 

Well, it's not wrong or right. It just seems that some of the big events that bring in a new pc's are nonsensical. If it works, then it works, but some people have a different opinion.

 

I'm not saying that is either right or wrong, only that the tendency of some to apply logic that is skewed from their own preference for an ongoing lead hero [like Commander Shepard for instance] breaks with Biowares clearly stated and oft reiterated position that this franchise is not about a single character, but about Thedas; and they are only showing us chapters (for the most part).

 

Please, if anything there is less logic to continue this cycle of Random Nobody #364793 please step forward. The only people grasping at straws are people who fail to see how important this is, for the Setting, for the Characters, and for this Franchise. This is not Final Fantasy, where every game is totally and completely segregated from each other. They are all linked, connected to a greater whole. But many people want these games to remain as segregated as possible, I assume so their precious Head Canon remains undisturbed. I am more concerned about the ACTUAL canon of this Setting, not fairy tale nonsense the fans make up themselves.  

 

Important according to who? My head canon has been just spiffy enjoying the series that the folks who are actually creating it have given us, as is; minus the the individual and loudly stated positions of a portion of gamers who prefer otherwise. Look everyone does have their own opinions, but to me your own comment about DA already being linked and connected to a greater whole pretty much negates the additional "need" to have a single lead character roll over from one game to the next. 

[Super Drone]

Replace 'Inquisitor' with "Hawke' and 'Solas' with "Corypheus', and you have the exact same argument for why Hawke should have been the PC for DAI.

 

They can build a relationship between Solas and a new PC, just like they did with the Inquisitor did with Corypheus. The only reason people want the Inquisitor specifically is because Lavellan.

 

But not all of us played Lavellan.

[Smudjygirl]

I'm not saying that is either right or wrong, only that the tendency of some to apply logic that is skewed from their own preference for an ongoing lead hero [like Commander Shepard for instance] breaks with Biowares clearly stated and oft reiterated position that this franchise is not about a single character, but about Thedas; and they are only showing us chapters (for the most part).

 

 

On the other hand, though, the same thing can be said for the opposing view. Really, my view is that the devs should do what is best for the story. That being said, the story can still be about Thedas AND feature a protag more than once (if needed). In some ways, and for some aspects of the story, some people feel that the ways new PC's are being brought in is somewhat unnecessary. And some of the stories are set up perfectly for one PC, only to be pushed onto another.

[TheRevanchist]

 

Important according to who? My head canon has been just spiffy enjoying the series that the folks who are actually creating it have given us, as is; minus the the individual and loudly stated positions of a portion of gamers who prefer otherwise. Look everyone does have their own opinions, but to me your own comment about DA already being linked and connected to a greater whole pretty much negates the additional "need" to have a single lead character roll over from one game to the next. 

 

Except it does not, because continuing to insist that each game must always and forever be about someone new, because reasons, ensures nothing complex or long term can ever be created effectively. Maintaining this Formula severely limits Story telling options, because every single game is always the same Rags to Riches power fantasy. By the time the characters are finally useful and can contribute to the setting as a whole, the games over and we start back over with another random nobody. All we do is build people up, for no reason, because they all just wander off and do basically nothing afterwards. As I've already said, giving a character more than a single game does not change the focus of the Franchise. I don't know who honestly thinks that is the case, but it's not.

[Wulfram]

Replace 'Inquisitor' with "Hawke' and 'Solas' with "Corypheus', and you have the exact same argument for why Hawke should have been the PC for DAI.
 
They can build a relationship between Solas and a new PC, just like they did with the Inquisitor did with Corypheus. The only reason people want the Inquisitor specifically is because Lavellan.
 
But not all of us played Lavellan.

Hawke should have been the PC for DAI. Though more for Mage/Templar stuff than Corypheus, who isn't that important to Hawke's story.

A brief DLC with the guy as villain isn't the same as having a whole game with the fellow, and having him be behind the central plot of the game. The Inquisitor's connection to Solas is not dependant on having banged him.