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A List of Issues And ...Things


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#1
Aerakyl

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I read these forums a lot and thought I'd try and contribute for once.  Hopefully, the friggin' novella below will articulate some of the issues I feel could be remedied.  Grab a coffee (or don't - I take caffeine tablets because ain't nobody got time for that.)


(Nightmare) - Enemy Immunities - "Have you tried, like, I don't know, hitting it or something?"

Let me start by saying that enemy resistances have always been part of the equation, and they can add some degree of skill-oriented gameplay.  If you're an elementalist using a lightning staff, you might swap targets to have your staff attacks hit an enemy weak to lightning, while using fire and frost spells on enemies weak to those damage types;  the speed at which a player is able to switch targets while also navigating the battlefield is part of the challenge.

But having enemies be completely immune to damage types brings forth some serious issues.  Suddenly, you're no longer utilizing the build you want to use, because if you don't take certain skills, you won't have a way to deal with [x] enemy type.  You might really want to use a certain staff on a character, but it's just not viable because most of your spells are also of that damage type.

One could argue that this is where you depend on your team, but then, there's the issue that nothing in this game is physical-immune, so rogues and warriors don't have to worry about that.  Only mages are left having to rely on others to get the job done.  At the end of the day, while mages are left frantically swapping targets and altering their builds to account for immunities, Reavers and Silent Sisters are button mashing their way to victory against, well, everything.  

Please note that I do not, under any circumstances, think that the solution is to make some enemies physical immune;  all that will succeed in doing is make playing melee classes substantially less enjoyable.  Rather, I simply propose that full immunities be removed from Nightmare.  After the guard buff and barrier nerf, mages were already having a hard time keeping up;  enemy immunities simply crippled them further.


(Nightmare) - Enemy Crowd Control - "I don't even... whatever, I'm going to play Witcher 3"

So, this happens a lot:

http://imgur.com/qpPewma

For those who don't want to count, there's 7 despair demons in that picture.

Situations such as the above might lead one to think that "increased difficulty" is synonymous with "you can't move your character."  And, well, yeah, being unable to move makes pretty much anything in life harder.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it's fun.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the above situation to be a walk in the park when solo.  But the problem extends past solo gameplay.  As someone who spends most of their time doing Quick Match games, I've seen an entire team fall over in under 5 seconds due to knockdowns / ice beams, and there was nothing that could be done about it.

Yes, you *can* beat the above situation under certain circumstances;  I completed the game shown in the picture at level 14.  But there's two things to keep in mind:

1.) I was playing the strongest class in the game (which is incredibly overpowered and scales better than any other class.)
2.) I have 100% crit chance on the Silent Sister, meaning my cooldowns are *constantly* refreshing;  the average player will not have access to this.

I understand that there is a portion of the playerbase with egregious stats, for whom any situation is trivialized.  But on the whole, it's important to realize that these individuals are essentially playing a different game at this point.  I have fairly high cunning and willpower, but my constitution is a lowly 43;  on any class except Silent Sister, the above situation, even with a team, is going to result in a faceplant.

And this is a problem, because there is nothing that can be done about it.   You can't outskill it.  You can't outmaneuver it.  The best you can do is hope you're playing a class with combat roll;  that in and of itself is an indication that something is amiss, as having mandatory skills for any difficulty reduces player choice and replay value.

Nightmare could desperately use a reduction in the amount of crowd control going on.  It doesn't really matter what faction you're up against right now  -  you're going to lose control of your character for extended periods of time, and that's just frustrating.


(Nightmare / Perilous) - Enemy Numbers - "Gonna go unlock the doo-... nevermind."

Awhile back, changes were made to the enemy spawn spot radius;  the general area in which a player needed to be present in order to prevent enemy spawns was decreased so as to reduce the viability of "spawn blocking".  At the end of the day, it didn't change much because it's still possible to do (and regularly requested in Nightmare PUGs.)

What's important to consider here, however, is why people spawn block in the first place.  I tracked the number of enemies on stage 3 of a Fereldan Castle Nightmare run the other day:  84.  84 enemies with extremely high hit point values, to say nothing of barriers and guard.  Put simply, Nightmare games take a *really* long time when you're not running with high promotion players, but the lengthy nature of the matches is not implemented in a way that is challenging or fun.  When you first run into a stage, the large number and variety of enemy types can require a tactical approach.  But after you've dealt with them, you subsequently sit around for a couple minutes cleaning up small packs of 3;  these packs clearly pose no threat, as you had no problem annihilating their 15 friends that were grouped up before.  It ends up being a tedious process, regardless of how many promotions you have.

I propose one of two solutions:

    1.)  Reduce the number of enemies per stage, especially on Nightmare.  This will not only make the combat less tedious, but also bring Nightmare at least a little closer in line with the time-per-match of other difficulties.
    2.)  Spawn more enemies at once.  Virtually everything shouldn't need to be cleared for more baddies to start spawning;  if there's less than 10-15 and the players have not reached the kill count for a stage, spawn more.

    
(Nightmare) - XP Gain - "Why am I doing this again?"

It seems a logical follow-up to reducing enemy count to broach the subject of XP gains.  Nightmare XP... really isn't so great.  It certainly doesn't seem worth the hassle of trying to clear, given the drastically increased difficulty.  The reward for completing Nightmare should be more than just a title and Hakkon weapons.  Give us a reason to go back that isn't "because the stupid dragon didn't drop my [item] yet."  And on that note...


(Nightmare) - Loot - "Oh.  That's why."

As of the time of writing this, I have 95 Fereldan Castle dragon kills.  In my inventory, there is one Hakkon weapon.

This is why we can't have nice things.

There are three problems with the current model:
    
    1.)  Hakkon weapons only drop from the Fereldan Castle dragon.  The dragon is easier than the faction commanders, which doesn't make sense considering the weapons are supposed to be (somewhat) gated by accomplishment.  It also means you're stuck doing the same map, over and over.  It's hard enough finding a Nightmare PUG;  try finding one that isn't on Fereldan Castle.
    2.)  The drop rates are abysmal.  And they get more abysmal once you acquire a weapon or two.  And there's no measures in place to ensure you don't end up getting completely screwed by RNG.  I believe Piffle once posted s/he had to do over 500 runs to get all 5 weapons.  500 runs on Nightmare difficulty?  How much of the playerbase is Nightmare capable, much less capable of investing the time to complete 500 runs?  And why is there someone on my friend's list who is fairly casual that received all 5 weapons in 18 games?  How, in any world, is that reasonable?
    3.)  You have no control over what you get.  Players delete their Hakkon weapons because the drop rate decreases as you receive Hakkon loot.  So if someone really, really just wants the greatsword because two-handed warriors are their favorite class, they might delete the other weapons to improve their chances.  There's something fundamentally broken when the notion of deleting top-tier weapons enters the picture.
    
Ideally, I'd like one of two solutions:

1.)  Hakkon weapons are crafted, requiring a crafting material that you receive at the end of completing a Nightmare match on any map.  Each weapon requires, say, 30-50 of the material.  In this way, you allow players to choose what weapon they get, while also having a goal to work towards that isn't a title with the European spelling of "Traveler".  And because any Nightmare map would award a token, you have less of a desire to bash your head into a wall!  Yay!
2.)  Tie the Hakkon weapons to the Nightmare completion achievements, with a chest at each breakpoint.  I'm less fond of this solution because it still deprives players of the option of choosing their weapon of choice.  It also awards players a top-tier weapon for completing a single match, so the achievement would most likely need to be altered in some way.


(Skills) Livid  -  "Uhhhhhhh... wat."

That's really all I have for this.  Please put Unbowed back.  I've searched the forums, single-player and multiplayer, and can find no references to some great movement incited by the playerbase to remove Unbowed.  This was entirely unnecessary.


(Skills) Character Imbalance  -  "Well yeah, the Hunter's hat is cool and all, but that's about all he's got going for him."

I remember a thread not long ago where TheThirdRace posted asking how to make Katari viable.  There were some good tips in that thread.  There was also a load of crap about how great Katari is.

The katari, when compared to the Reaver, is not great.  The alchemist, when compared to the Silent Sister, is not great.  This does not mean these classes cannot succeed;  nor does this mean they cannot complete Nightmare.  What it does mean, however, is that playing said classes is infinitely more difficult and generally a detriment to the team than if one were to just ride the overpowered bandwagon.

Before the community goes through all the effort of trying to re-design skill trees and suggest improvements, we really need to know:  How likely is it that the fundamental tree layouts can/will change?  Is this something that, because of how it was initially designed, is not feasible to code for given the limited state of support for the game?

Or should we get to work on making some cool skill tree re-design ideas?
 

 

(Crafting) Armor Modifications  -  "This outfit is so last week."

So, we've got all these different armor choices.  And the new armor chests from the "Experienced" challenges were a pretty cool idea.

And like so many others, I'm not using the dragon armors because I don't have good mods to put in them.

The drop rate on good armor modifications make Hakkon weapons look like finding a grey level 12 dagger.  I'm not alone when I say that there are many I haven't even seen yet.  Given that it's already coded for, it seems a logical next step to implement crafting for armor modifications.  It'll grant players substantially more choices in their gear customization while also allowing players to switch their outfits regularly without worrying about stat loss.  This game can use variety anywhere it can get it - let's start with something simple.

 

(Exploits) XP Glitch  -  "Oh for God's sake, not again..."

Yeah, yeah, I know.  Some of you don't want to hear about this anymore.  A lot of you probably find it quite irritating.

You know what I find even more irritating, though?  The fact that it was implied by the development team there would be repercussions, no action was taken, and the community promptly started ignoring the issue when shiny new toys were released.  I'd liken it to a news outlet dangling another story about the Kardashians in order to distract the viewers when a story that was detrimental to their political views surfaced.

And somehow, the community went from being upset about the fact that people were blatantly exploiting, to lambasting anyone who so much as mentioned the topic.

The leaderboard in this game does not revolve around skill.  It has never revolved around skill.  It is a measure of time invested.  You may dislike this, you may disagree with this, but at the end of the day, that is the sole measure of competition in this game and it has never changed.  The XP exploit took that one measure and threw it out the window.  And the developers' response was a resounding "meh."

I asked Luke once in a PM if anything was being done (this was a few weeks ago.)  He mentioned that they were able to track when the exploit was occurring and that repercussions were being discussed.  (He also mentioned that he was not a part of those discussions, so please don't jump on a Luke hate-train here.)  So, they have the data.  They know who did it.  And they decided to do nothing.

The community responded when the threat of bans was announced, generally stating that perhaps that was a bit too severe given the already small playerbase.  There was also the (apparently legitimate) concern that bans would not be implemented because of their affect on the business.  But no discussion was held on this, either.  It was just swept under the rug.

I'm going to leave you with an actual scenario.  There is an individual on my friend's list who I added a short time before the exploit became well-known.  We don't talk much, but she seems like a nice enough person.  When we first met, she was sitting about ~200 prestige below me;  she had completed a fair number of the challenges, but only had around 60 or so promotions.  Four weeks later, she was 50 prestige points above me, with more promotions than I have.  She still logs on regularly, and is still past me on the leaderboards.

No, I'm not losing sleep over it (the time invested on writing this entire post is about 1/10th of what I have to spend on work emails on a daily basis.)  But it's pretty clear that, even in cases when a relatively casual player suddenly skyrockets in promotions due to exploiting the glitch, nothing has been done.

The point of this section is not to get the Bioware team to take action - I'd venture a guess that ship has already sailed.  It's merely to convey a point:  If this is the response to exploiting, it cannot be expected that people will not exploit in the future.  There's simply no reason to play by the rules if there are no repercussions for not doing so.  Issuing a stern, "We might ban people, no, really, we might!" will simply be laughed at and ignored.


CONCLUSION

I don't really have any grand closing thoughts.  Thanks for reading and stuff.


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#2
Wavebend

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Severe case of L2P.


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#3
KalGerion_Beast

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Unless you didn't read it, in which case, you are a bad person and you should feel bad.

Ok.  


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#4
Rundagutz

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Severe case of L2P.

 

actually, Aerakyl is a very good player. 

 

@Aerakyl,  a lot of mechanics have changed.  I was gone for about 3 months and practically had to relearn the game.  Speaking to the point of spawn camping, there are two reasons many of us do it.  It's because A.  If we didn't, we would blow the xp cap out of the water, and B.  we would be wasting time for severely diminished returns.  Anyway, we should play together again sometime.


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#5
cidc13

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You'd think with the amount of monotonous tedium just playing MP people would have the fortitude to read through this post and actually have a discussion, a lot of the things Aerakyl is bringing up is actually not unreasonable.


  • Kalas Magnus aime ceci

#6
DanakV

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Heya Aerakyl.  Seeing you on the forum is a good opportunity to apologize for a few of the terrible PUG games you've run with myself and Chadzilla.  We've actually commented to one another that it is hilarious how it seems like you always pop into one of our games just when we're trying out some hilariously bad new build idea or another.  Sorry for making you carry like that sometimes!

 

I agree with you that enemy crowd control effects are overdone at times.  Personally I'd like to see some sort of diminishing returns on consecutive CC effects to avoid situations where you're stunlocked to death.  Slightly raising the cooldown on some of their abilities would probably work also though.  It needs to be a delicate change though because CC is frequently the only real challenge you get in NM.

 

I do disagree with you about the damage immunity, however.  I actually think that is one of the things that makes NM more interesting on some of my characters.  I like that build diversity is encouraged in this way or that you'll be forced to rely upon teammates if focusing upon only a single damage type.  While you are correct that there are no physical immune creatures for non-casters, they do tend to have a much more difficult time with shield-types than mages so that provides somewhat of a balance.  It can be annoying at times, sure, but I still prefer this to doing something such as giving everything massive health pools instead.

 

Good thoughts on these issues though.


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#7
LearnedHand

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Immunities are what make nightmare and up interesting.

 

Hunter and alchemist are really strong now. Katari has always been fine, its just he is overshadowed by reaver and silent sister.

 

I agree that gold should be boosted. Treasure rooms should really be full of gold pots.


  • Kalas Magnus aime ceci

#8
kaileena_sands

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I would just remove that from the post. :P Your post is so well put and nice, and reasonable that this line just takes away from it. Don't try to be inflammatory as many people on ze BSN. :)

 

Anyway, your post resonates on the most part some of my feelings about this game. Personally, I am sad that mages took such a big hit on higher difficulties and now (mostly) take the role of support. Sure, you can play them, they are totally viable and helpful but considering that you still don't have a friggin hakkon on your FFFFFFFF attempt at the stupid dragon, you don't want CC. You just want the character that is the most efficient killer and will finish that stupid n-th game faster.


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#9
Aerakyl

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I would just remove that from the post. :P Your post is so well put and nice, and reasonable that this line just takes away from it. Don't try to be inflammatory as many people on ze BSN. :)

 

My apologies;  It was intended entirely as harmless sarcasm, as I've never seen that line used in a serious manner.  I've removed it.


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#10
kaileena_sands

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My apologies;  It was intended entirely as harmless sarcasm, as I've never seen that line used in a serious manner.  I've removed it.

 

Didn't you get the memo? BSN is entirely srs biznes nowadays! :P This is no place for humour, sir, no, no! :D


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#11
Wavebend

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One could argue that this is where you depend on your team, but then, there's the issue that nothing in this game is physical-immune, so rogues and warriors don't have to worry about that.  Only mages are left having to rely on others to get the job done At the end of the day, while mages are left frantically swapping targets and altering their builds to account for immunities, Reavers and Silent Sisters are button mashing their way to victory against, well, everything.  

Please note that I do not, under any circumstances, think that the solution is to make some enemies physical immune;  all that will succeed in doing is make playing melee classes substantially less enjoyable.  Rather, I simply propose that full immunities be removed from Nightmare.  After the guard buff and barrier nerf, mages were already having a hard time keeping up;  enemy immunities simply crippled them further.


(Nightmare) - Enemy Crowd Control - "I don't even... whatever, I'm going to play Witcher 3"

For those who don't want to count, there's 7 despair demons in that picture.

Situations such as the above might lead one to think that "increased difficulty" is synonymous with "you can't move your character."  And, well, yeah, being unable to move makes pretty much anything in life harder.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it's fun.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect the above situation to be a walk in the park when solo.  But the problem extends past solo gameplay.  As someone who spends most of their time doing Quick Match games, I've seen an entire team fall over in under 5 seconds due to knockdowns / ice beams, and there was nothing that could be done about it.

Yes, you *can* beat the above situation under certain circumstances;  I completed the game shown in the picture at level 14.  But there's two things to keep in mind:

1.) I was playing the strongest class in the game (which is incredibly overpowered and scales better than any other class.)
2.) I have 100% crit chance on the Silent Sister, meaning my cooldowns are *constantly* refreshing;  the average player will not have access to this.

I understand that there is a portion of the playerbase with egregious stats, for whom any situation is trivialized.  But on the whole, it's important to realize that these individuals are essentially playing a different game at this point.  I have fairly high cunning and willpower, but my constitution is a lowly 43;  on any class except Silent Sister, the above situation, even with a team, is going to result in a faceplant.

And this is a problem, because there is nothing that can be done about it  You can't outskill it.  You can't outmaneuver it.  The best you can do is hope you're playing a class with combat roll;  that in and of itself is an indication that something is amiss, as having mandatory skills for any difficulty reduces player choice and replay value.

Nightmare could desperately use a reduction in the amount of crowd control going on.  It doesn't really matter what faction you're up against right now  -  you're going to lose control of your character for extended periods of time, and that's just frustrating.

 

I've highlighted the parts where you're wrong.


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#12
Snakebite

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    2.)  Spawn more enemies at once.  Virtually everything shouldn't need to be cleared for more baddies to start spawning;  if there's less than 10-15 and the players have not reached the kill count for a stage, spawn more.

 

+1

 

The slow trickle of spawns is one of the most annoying things for me.  Some of the most fun I have in this game is when a host migration happens and the zone starts with double (or more) the amount of spawns as normal.


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#13
ThatBruhYouDK

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I've highlighted the parts where you're wrong.

I button mash the hell on Reaver, S.S, AW and Avaar. It works extremely well


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#14
JAMiAM

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+1

 

The slow trickle of spawns is one of the most annoying things for me.  Some of the most fun I have in this game is when a host migration happens and the zone starts with double (or more) the amount of spawns as normal.

Likewise.


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#15
TheThirdRace

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+1
 
The slow trickle of spawns is one of the most annoying things for me.  Some of the most fun I have in this game is when a host migration happens and the zone starts with double (or more) the amount of spawns as normal.


I'm seriously considering this to alleviate the problem:

  • Spawn camping waves 1 and 2
  • Host migrate at the start of waves 3 and 4

This would kill 2 birds with 1 stone...

  1. Much faster games
    1. Wave 1 and 2 are over in less than 2 minutes each
    2. No running around to new spawned enemies on wave 3 and 4
    3. Being all spawned already, enemies are easy to crowd control and kill amazingly fast
  2. You reach the XP cap no problem
    1. No wasted time on XP you can't benefit from because of the cap

Is it normal I'm considering this? No, it's not, but the way the spawns are working now it's becoming very tedious to clear a level not to mention half the XP goes to waste because of the XP cap. I'll take about anything for a faster clear at this point. The current drawbacks are begging for you to do that. I wish the spawning was more even during the whole wave and that the XP cap would be removed for good since they fixed the real problem already so there's no need for that cap anymore. They're keeping it "just in case"! What a load of BS...

 

But now that I think about it, since Bioware dropped support for PS3/360, could we get all enemies spawning at once now? I mean, does the new console generation can handle that? Or does the Frostbyte engine can handle that?


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#16
TheSevered

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I've highlighted the parts where you're wrong.


A literal mountain of legitimate criticisms about this game and you cherry pick a few hyperbolic statements to invalidate him.

#17
Kenny Bania

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actually, Aerakyl is a very good player. 

 

When has that ever stopped us?


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#18
Aerakyl

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actually, Aerakyl is a very good player. 

 

@Aerakyl,  a lot of mechanics have changed.  I was gone for about 3 months and practically had to relearn the game.  Speaking to the point of spawn camping, there are two reasons many of us do it.  It's because A.  If we didn't, we would blow the xp cap out of the water, and B.  we would be wasting time for severely diminished returns.  Anyway, we should play together again sometime.

 

I don't want it to come across as my criticizing players for spawn blocking - the reasons for doing it seem purely based on the generally unenjoyable experience that is the alternative.  I'd just like to see those underlying reasons addressed.

And yes, I'm certainly up for some more games!  If you ever changed your name to PromotionLord_[X], though, you may have to re-add me;  I cleared out a bunch of folks using that nomenclature, not because I much minded it, but because I had no idea who was who anymore!

 

 

Heya Aerakyl.  Seeing you on the forum is a good opportunity to apologize for a few of the terrible PUG games you've run with myself and Chadzilla.  We've actually commented to one another that it is hilarious how it seems like you always pop into one of our games just when we're trying out some hilariously bad new build idea or another.  Sorry for making you carry like that sometimes!

 

I agree with you that enemy crowd control effects are overdone at times.  Personally I'd like to see some sort of diminishing returns on consecutive CC effects to avoid situations where you're stunlocked to death.  Slightly raising the cooldown on some of their abilities would probably work also though.  It needs to be a delicate change though because CC is frequently the only real challenge you get in NM.

 

I do disagree with you about the damage immunity, however.  I actually think that is one of the things that makes NM more interesting on some of my characters.  I like that build diversity is encouraged in this way or that you'll be forced to rely upon teammates if focusing upon only a single damage type.  While you are correct that there are no physical immune creatures for non-casters, they do tend to have a much more difficult time with shield-types than mages so that provides somewhat of a balance.  It can be annoying at times, sure, but I still prefer this to doing something such as giving everything massive health pools instead.

 

Good thoughts on these issues though.

 

Hi Danak!  You've absolutely nothing to apologize for!  In a game with as much repetition as this one has, I am  all for trying out new builds - whatever makes it more enjoyable for you both.  I've never thought to myself, "That guy is using a horrible build right now";  the two of you play pretty well.

With regards to crowd control, diminishing returns would definitely be an option.  I was initially under the impression they surely must exist in some form, until the other day when I was knocked down by darkspawn twice, followed by stunned by a gibbering horror, followed by another knockdown.  'Twas a less than pleasant experience.

I'm surprised you feel as though the immunities encourage build diversity;  I always feel as though I'm forced into taking skills such as Stonefist due to the spirit damage component.  I used to run an Immolate / Firestorm / Firewall / Barrier setup regularly on Elementalist, for example, but now I don't feel as though that's an option anymore.  I also preferred not to run Stonefist on Arcane Warrior (I really just don't care for Stonefist), but that's just not a good idea when lightning immunity is so prevalent.

I will concede your point about shield-types being more difficult for non-mage classes.  They are certainly capable of being dealt with using stealth, combat roll, mighty blow, etc., but the number of players who can utilize these skills effectively against 5 or 6 shield-bearers at once is a small portion of the playerbase and probably shouldn't be the cornerstone of balance.  Whether that is enough to warrant immunities is a point we may simply not agree on.

My concern regarding immunities is probably most highlighted when playing a Keeper against Venatori on Nightmare, as it basically reduces the Keeper's offensive capabilities to virtually nothing for stages 1 and 3.  Keeper is league's better in a supporting role and the team benefits greatly when a Keeper is not trying to be top DPS, but to have such a massive reduction in one's ability to do damage seems a bit much.  Perhaps that is more an issue with Venatori than anything else, though.

 

 

Hunter and alchemist are really strong now. Katari has always been fine, its just he is overshadowed by reaver and silent sister.

 

Hunter and Alchemist are strong in comparison to their previous iterations, certainly.  The Katari also performs much better ever since guard-on-hit came into the picture.  The issue is that they are not even remotely close to the effectiveness of other classes.  Katari lacks the damage output of Reaver and the guard-boosting capabilities of Silent Sister, while the Hunter and Alchemist simply cannot keep up due to the lack of Opportunity Knocks.  The Hunter's skill tree could also use some serious improvements in overall placement of skills.

While I would greatly prefer that the Silent Sister and Reaver are reduced in power somewhat, I know nerfs are never taken well by the community;  buffing other classes may be a more viable approach.

 

But now that I think about it, since Bioware dropped support for PS3/360, could we get all enemies spawning at once now? I mean, does the new console generation can handle that? Or does the Frostbyte engine can handle that?

 

I'm not sure they can, which is one of the reasons I was hesitant to suggest it as an option.  The new systems are more powerful than the previous generation, but the Frostbite engine is known for not providing the best performance.

 

Severe case of L2P.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're attempting to accomplish with comments such as these.  Highlighting arguments and simply responding with "You're wrong" is not constructive.  I'll endeavor to respond once, in the event that some of my meaning was misinterpreted.

The perspective that is taken for the arguments listed above in the crowd control section is not a personal once as much as it is the general community I've played with.  It is not an unreasonable estimate to say that over 90% of my games are Quick Match games;  I enjoy the challenge of playing with random individuals since you know nothing about the skill, gear, or promotion levels of those you're matched with.

Could I select a few individuals from my friend's list, run a Nightmare game on classes other than Silent Sister, and tackle the situation in the picture?  Sure.  But we'd be functioning as a cohesive unit and we have the gear, skill, and promotions to counter the massive amount of CC.

One can make the argument that PUGs should not be the playerbase that is balanced around.  My first counter to this is that PUGs seem to comprise the majority of players.  How many threads have been made lamenting the lack of teamwork or voice chat?  How many posts have been made about not being able to even find people to play with?  Doing Quick Match games because nobody else you know is online and playing is a common issue.

My second counter to this is that organized teams are typically going to be comprised of people who have a lot of time spent with the game.  And if they have a lot of time spent, they have a lot of promotions, which sort of nullifies the vast majority of gameplay mechanics anyhow.  I can kill a despair demon without a barrier with a single cast of Hidden Blades - two if a barrier is up.  It can take 6 or 7 casts for a less experienced player to do the same thing.  Imagine seeing 7 despair demons when it takes you the better part of a minute to kill just one  (and this is if you're on a Silent Sister.)

One last point I'd like to make is that counter-arguments along the lines of "L2P" always seem to be made in a vacuum.  Yes, you can deal with the ice knockdown from a despair demon.  You can even deal with two or three at once.  Dodging ice knockdowns / ice beams from 3 despair demons while simultaneously dealing with the massive hitbox of a pride demon that has that lovely Nightmare aggro-lock on you and is staggering you every few seconds... well, that's a different story.  Especially when a despair demon's ice beam kills you in 3 seconds because you don't have a whole lot of promotions.

The same goes for something like a Red Templar Knight's ranged attack.  You can dodge one or two, but four at once and you're probably going to get nailed.  And if one staggers you, others will follow.  It's not uncommon to see players go from full barrier to dead in under 2 seconds on Nightmare stage 4.  Imagine how frustrating that is for PUGs.

Perspective is critical here.  Experienced players running voice chat have the advantages of promotions and teamwork on their side;  for them, nothing in this game is a challenge, not even Heartbreaker.  

Play a Nightmare match with three random people, with low promotions, using classes other than Silent Sister, Reaver, and Arcane Warrior, and the picture is dramatically different.  I'd rather see the game balanced around the average individual being able to pick up the game, play a reasonable amount, and enjoy it.  Let's be honest about what we're talking about:  This is a game with four action buttons;  contrast that to when I played MMOs seriously and had 42 keybinds.  DAI:MP was never going to be a tremendous measure of skill, and treating it as a hardcore experience seems a bit ridiculous.


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#19
akots1

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Severe case of L2P.

You have a problem as you don't pug. IMHO, it might be a good idea to got out there and play a few games with some random people.


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#20
sonofbarak

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I pug a lot since I came to PS4 it fine :D