331 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuki Mashiro Manga]

Can't really speak for Christine as I never encountered her in my brief playthrough of New Vegas but if that is their only character trait that they can't speak then yeah I don't find them incredibly interesting, I never said that characters who can't speak can't be interesting but they need more to their personality than just being mute and to be quite honest with you there really isn't much more to Quiet's character than the nudie mute angle.

 

While I am sure losing the ability speak would be devastating just as losing a hand or your ability to walk (to be honest I would much rather lose my voice than lose the use of my hands and legs) would be devestating as well but these things alone don't make a character interesting or particularly deep, there has to be something more to the character.

 

 

 

 

Not the point, I am not criticizing Joosten's performance I am criticizing the character she plays and I am responding to the assertion that Quiet is an interesting character because she can make her emotions visible without speaking despire this being something every human being on the face of the earth is capable of doing, while facial capture may be a relatively new thing in the video games industry actors have been conveying emotion through not only their voice but through their faces and their gestures in movies for years, it is a big part of acting and something any actor worth their salt should be able to do, hell the very first movies ever made were SILENT so actors had to rely purely on using their facial expressions and gestures to convey emotion.

 

 

You are giving Kojima and Joosten far more credit than they deserve

Well, you've blatantly ignored my counter arguments that explain why Quiet does have more depth than just being nude, so we've reached a point where the only thing we can do is go in circles.

[Queen Skadi]

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LOL!

Japanese culture is not obsessed with nudity or semi/nudity or titillating custumes as the US. Certainly their anime cartoon/movies shows us that much, So, I believe his creation comes from his Japanese cultural background. Having said that, he did admit he wanted to make Quiet sexy and not erotic. Again, nothing wrong with it either.

 

Yet, show some skin and we get an uproar.  Seems like the mature 18+ rating means something else to some fans.

 

Tell me I am wrong, I honestly don't care about Quiet's state of undress and feel Kojima has every right to dress his characters however he wants, but can you honestly tell me with a straight face that he did not have Quiet's costumed designed the way it was because it gives him a hard on? Can you honestly tell me that Quiet's costume was genuinely required to be that way because the story required it?

[Queen Skadi]

Well, you've blatantly ignored my counter arguments that explain why Quiet does have more depth than just being nude, so we've reached a point where the only thing we can do is go in circles.

 

What do you mean I ignored your counter arguments? The only argument I can see I ignored is that a character who can't speak is deep considering the theme of the game is language which is laughable, sure it is thematically appropriate but it doesn't really give a one note character any more depth, we might be encouraged to think more deeply but it doesn't really give the character that much more depth. It it is like saying a character missing an arm is deep because the game is called phantom pain.

 

It is ok to admit that you like Quiet purely because you were hypnotized by her boobs, you sound like one of those Bimbos who constantly try to dance around the fact that the only reason they are with some creepy rich old guy is because he pays them a fat wad of cash to stick around, "oh he is so charming" they all say, yeah I am sure that fat wad of cash he pays you to hang off his arm at parties really charmed the pants off you, just wait till you turn 25 and he dumps you for the younger model and tell us all how "charming" he is then.

[TheTechnoTurian]

It's more than just simply saying "she wants to shag Boss". She wants to kill him because he's the reason she was burned alive and tossed from a building. The reason she lost her voice. 

I really dislike people boiling it down to "she falls in love with Boss so she doesn't wanna kill him anymore". Quiet and Snake's relationship is, in no way, standard. It's completely based around the player creating the story through the gameplay. You choose to play with her, and as a result you can see that they have mutual respect for one another. They're comrades. Which is all the more impressive because they can't speak to one another. A theme that is present throughout the majority of the game. 

 

+1 for this whole comment, but especially this. Watching the relationship with Quiet develop through gameplay and seeing her actions change accordingly was one of the most engaging and memorable parts of my MGSV experience. And personally, I enjoyed that kind of development and found it more immersive than navigating dialogue trees and picking the top left option to flirt, and as a result felt significantly more attached to her than I ever would have anticipated. 

 

And count me among those who hated her design from the first time I saw it and went into the game expecting to cringe every time she was on screen, yet being shocked when I found her to be compelling and almost crucial to my enjoyment of the game and understanding of its themes. 

 

Personally, I think Bioware could learn from this sort of experience -- maybe even improve on it  -- because the idea of a relationship between characters developing through gameplay and not just minimally interactive scripted dialogues really is a fantastic concept. 

[goishen]

Communicating without speaking isn't that big of a deal... huh.

 

So Christine (was that her name?) from Fallout New Vegas was also a shitty character? Y'know because there's nothing meaningful or interesting about a character that has to communicate without words?

 

Pretty sure most people in the world would be devastated if they lost their ability to speak. You can take it for granted, but it's extremely important to human interaction. That's got nothing to do with Metal Gear, it's just a fact.

Language is a huge theme in the game. Whether you're talking about Skull Face's ethnic cleansers, or the simple act of recruiting interpreters so you can understand soldiers out in the field. Taking that away from a character has meaning because of the context of the story. 

 

And if you're going to use the robots from Portal as an example of giving something personality, be aware that those are created entirely by the artist in charge of all the character models. MGSV uses facial capture.

 

Joosten is an actress. Every expression on Quiet's face is credited to her. She did a fine job.

 

 

Okay.   Every troll has a nugget of truth.

 

Here's yours.   Yes.  She did a fine job.  Not an excellent job.  Not an overly amazing job.  Just fine.  That's your one nugget of truth.  She was fan service.  If you don't wanna believe it, it must not be true.  Atrollsayswhat?

[Yuki Mashiro Manga]

What do you mean I ignored your counter arguments? The only argument I can see I ignored is that a character who can't speak is deep considering the theme of the game is language which is laughable, sure it is thematically appropriate but it doesn't really give a one note character any more depth, we might be encouraged to think more deeply but it doesn't really give the character that much more depth. It it is like saying a character missing an arm is deep because the game is called phantom pain.

 

It is ok to admit that you like Quiet purely because you were hypnotized by her boobs, you sound like one of those Bimbos who constantly try to dance around the fact that the only reason they are with some creepy rich old guy is because he pays them a fat wad of cash to stick around, "oh he is so charming" they all say, yeah I am sure that fat wad of cash he pays you to hang off his arm at parties really charmed the pants off you, just wait till you turn 25 and he dumps you for the younger model and tell us all how "charming" he is then.

 

Implying that was the only reason I gave. Going in circles again, and it's tiring. It's pretty obvious you have nothing to say, so continuing this conversation is pretty meaningless. 

 

Okay.   Every troll has a nugget of truth.

 

Here's yours.   Yes.  She did a fine job.  Not an excellent job.  Not an overly amazing job.  Just fine.  That's your one nugget of truth.  She was fan service.  If you don't wanna believe it, it must not be true.  Atrollsayswhat?

 

I already said she was designed for the sake of fanservice. As was EDI's ****** in Mass Effect 3.

 

As I've said, several times now, a character's design is not the entire character.

 

You could like... I dunno... try to read. I know it's hard, but I believe in you. 

[Queen Skadi]

 

Implying that was the only reason I gave.

 

Pretty sure I already addressed your other points in my other posts, not sure why you expect me to post a summary of every point you have ever made and my rebuttal to those points in every response I make.

 

If there are any points you feel I have not addressed then feel free to point them out but I am pretty sure everyone can see your assertion is little more than a smokescreen to cover your retreat. 

 

Okay.   Every troll has a nugget of truth.

 

Here's yours.   Yes.  She did a fine job.  Not an excellent job.  Not an overly amazing job.  Just fine.  That's your one nugget of truth.  She was fan service.  If you don't wanna believe it, it must not be true.  Atrollsayswhat?

 

Not sure it is fair to call them a troll, pretty sure this guy is just trying to convince us and himself that his like of this character isn't based mostly on physical attraction. Not that I am judging but I think it might be something he is a little embarrassed about for some reason.

[Yuki Mashiro Manga]

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure I already addressed your other points in my other posts, not sure why you expect me to post a summary of every point you have ever made and my rebuttal to those points in every response I make.

 

If there are any points you feel I have not addressed then feel free to point them out but I am pretty sure everyone can see your assertion is little more than a smokescreen to cover your retreat. 

 

 

Not sure it is fair to call them a troll, pretty sure this guy is just trying to convince us and himself that his like of this character isn't based mostly on biological attraction.

 

 

Lol, no, you didn't. You glossed over pretty much all of them, actually. In fact, the only thing you've actually answered was involving language being a theme in the game and that not making her interesting. Which, in truth, didn't actually answer what I said at all, but I digress...

 

Aside from that, you've mentioned me hiding my attraction to Quiet and/or Joosten. Which I'm still absolutely positive that I've admitted to finding her attractive.

In almost every single post. Like, I'm actually unsure as to how I could make it anymore clear that I find her attractive? 

 

But, once again, circles. Boring and tedious.

[Galbrant]

Personally I thought why not join her? I would be inserting a picture of my Big Boss and Quiet in their Silver Naked outfit.... but Noooo I did not have that stupid butterfly equipped!  O'_'O Bad Game design Kojima-san!

 

[Queen Skadi]

Lol, no, you didn't. You glossed over pretty much all of them, actually. In fact, the only thing you've actually answered was involving language being a theme in the game and that not making her interesting. Which, in truth, didn't actually answer what I said at all, but I digress...

 

Did you write them in invisible text? In my last post the language thing was the only thing addressed because I already addressed your other points in a previous post, do you honestly expect me to post a summary of every point you have ever made and my rebuttal to those points in every response I make?

 

Aside from that, you've mentioned me hiding my attraction to Quiet and/or Joosten. Which I'm still absolutely positive that I've admitted to finding her attractive.

In almost every single post. Like, I'm actually unsure as to how I could make it anymore clear that I find her attractive?

 

Of course you have and I never said you didn't, but it seems you don't want that to be the only reason you you like the character so much and seem to be trying desperately to convince everyone (including yourself) that it isn't the case.

[Queen Skadi]

Personally I thought why not join her? I would be inserting a picture of my Big Boss and Quiet in their Silver Naked outfit.... but Noooo I did not have that stupid butterfly equipped!  O'_'O Bad Game design Kojima-san!

 

Big Boss has a silver naked outfit? How do I unlock it?

[Galbrant]

Big Boss has a silver naked outfit? How do I unlock it?

 

Complete all missions on high difficulty levels – Extreme, Subsistence, Total Stealth with any rank Oh you'll get a matching hand with it too.

[Queen Skadi]

Complete all missions on high difficulty levels – Extreme, Subsistence, Total Stealth with any rank Oh you'll get a matching hand with it too.

 

Is there a gold one? I know there is a gold hand as i actually have it unlocked (not sure how you unlock it but it appeared pretty early in the game on my R&D menu I think)

[Galbrant]

Yes, complete all missions on high difficulty levels Extreme, Subsistence and Total Stealth with S Rank

 

I'll probably never be able to get it.

[Sartoz]

 Snip

but can you honestly tell me with a straight face that he did not have Quiet's costumed designed the way it was because it gives him a hard on? Can you honestly tell me that Quiet's costume was genuinely required to be that way because the story required it?

 

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I'll rephrase your question. Tell me with a straight face that he designed Big Boss' costumed for jungle warfare so that he could suffocate in the heat and humidity? Neither wardrobe for jungle warfare is suitable, imo.

 

However, we do have the premise of this virus contamination that made Quiet's body into s photosynthesis machine. Ergo, lots of skin... I grant that the booty and boobies camera work brings nothing to the game except to titillate the younger crowd.

 

Remember too that you do need to sell your product and M 18+ rating does generate sales, I guess...  Never played a MG video game, I don't know the target market.

[Sartoz]

  The only argument I can see I ignored is that a character who can't speak

 

Big Snip

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Quiet can speak you know... speaks in Japanese and won't do that in English.

 

You need to watch all her video scenes to find out..... Also, her only titillating scenes are in the helicopter. I can't think of any other.

[AtreiyaN7]

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Hm...

I always though one cannot hate an object... intensely dislike, perhaps?

 

Be as it may,  Quiet is Quiet and I take her as she is. As far as some "fan service camera shots" is concerned... I'm sure you are aware that some TV series show more than that....hell. there are more boobies in fashion shows that in the game, so I don't see why some folks  make a big hoobaloo over Quiet's outfit and camera angle that are timid compared to other main media services.

 

Quiet, as you say, is extremely useful and a main character at that. This ought to bring satisfaction to the female players when a game includes one of their sex as a kick ass soldier(sniper). Yet, I read more bashing than praise for Kojima's creation.

 

I don't get it.
 

 

I don't mind nudity - I'm someone who took life-drawing classes in college and actually drew/sketched/painted images of nude models, both male and female; heck, I still have my art books on drawing the human figure (with non-prurient nudity). And I also watch shows and movies that contain nudity. Do you know why actual nudity doesn't bother me and why I'm perfectly okay with it in shows and movies and art in general? Because none of it involves cringe-worthy fanservice intended to appeal to fifteen-year-old boys or whatever male demographic it is that Quiet was intended to appeal to.

 

Also, I don't know why it's such a difficult concept for you to process the idea that someone can dislike/hate certain things about a character - such as their outfit - and actually like other aspects of the character just fine. I like Quiet's sniper skills, I like her recruitment mission (because it was challenging, exciting, and unexpected), and I do like that she can also kick butt sans sniper rifle. I even liked what she did for that former child soldier. However, all the positive and empowered aspects of her character are almost completely ruined and canceled out when she does stuff like stripping down and rolling around in the rain in that cutscene or runs around barely clothed all the time.

 

I would actually have zero issue with Quiet being naked for some actual, legitimate story reason (and when certain other characters CAN photosynthesize with all their clothes on, I start thinking that it's illogical that the one female character has to wear almost nothing to photosynthesize and "breathe"). I would similarly have no problem with a sexy outfit if it were less blatantly fanservicey. You can show a lot of skin (and breathe through it) while wearing tastefully sexy outfits. In no way am I saying that Quiet should wear the equivalent of a nun's habit, because as someone who likes Project Runway, I do like seeing creative, sexy outfits that show skin (sometimes lots of skin) but still manage to be tasteful and beautiful, along with being avant garde.

 

My one issue with Quiet is pretty much limited to how she is objectified in the game, something that I find ultimately detracts from her strengths, rather than adding to them. Also, as previously stated, I'm female and have no interest in having her boobs and butt being front and center so much of the time - it gets to be annoying to the point that I'll actually move to the other side of the chopper if she's hanging on outside the chopper with her boobs right in my face.

 

As to whether or not you can hate objects/things, according to the OED and pretty much every other dictionary on the planet (http://www.oxforddic...an_english/hate):

 

Definition of hate in English:

verb

[with object]

1 Feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone): the boys hate each other he was particularly hated by the extreme right

More example sentences Synonyms

1.1 Have a strong aversion to (something): he hates flying [with infinitive]: I’d hate to live there

More example sentences

1.2 [with infinitive] Used politely to express one’s regret or embarrassment at doing something: I hate to bother you

More example sentences Synonyms

1.3 [no object] (hate on) informal Express strong dislike for; criticize or abuse: I can’t hate on them for trying something new

 

As you can see, you can hate an inanimate object/thing or even dumb ideas, etc. People hate lots of different things that aren't people, such as black licorice, cilantro, or the flakiness of iTunes. I highly suggest that you actually check a dictionary on your own next time before asking about word usage in the future.

[Queen Skadi]

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I'll rephrase your question. Tell me with a straight face that he designed Big Boss' costumed for jungle warfare so that he could suffocate in the heat and humidity? Neither wardrobe for jungle warfare is suitable, imo.

 

However, we do have the premise of this virus contamination that made Quiet's body into s photosynthesis machine. Ergo, lots of skin... I grant that the booty and boobies camera work brings nothing to the game except to titillate the younger crowd.

 

Remember too that you do need to sell your product and M 18+ rating does generate sales, I guess...  Never played a MG video game, I don't know the target market.

 

A woman in a Bikini is enough to warrant an M 18+ rating? To be honest I am not sure what your issue with my comments is or what you are arguing? Quiet is not the only character in the Metal Gear series to be photosynthetic.

 

Here is the End

 

Here you can see him rocking a heavy coat and trouser combo with a sort of leafy camo pattern, he was the first character featured in the Metal Gear franchise to rely on photosynthesis yet he seems to be doing alright despite being heavily clothed. He is also the origin for Code Talker (who is also fully clothed) and Quiet's photosynthetic abilities. Perhaps if he were running around in a thong with his shirt off it might be easier to buy into the idea that Quiet's costume was not designed purely for sex appeal but as you can see by how the End is almost fully covered it is not an assertion that can be taken seriously.

[KaiserShep]

They obviously dropped the ball on his design. He should've been dressed like this.

 

[Queen Skadi]

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Quiet can speak you know... speaks in Japanese and won't do that in English.

 

You need to watch all her video scenes to find out..... Also, her only titillating scenes are in the helicopter. I can't think of any other.

 

I believe that would fall under spoilers and isn't incredibly relevant to the discussion, a minor nitpick at best.

 

Also her only titillating scenes are in the helicopter? Are you kidding me? Apparently you missed the rain scene and how the camera perves on her with nearly every frame in every cutscene she is in.

 

@Goishen, remember how I said it would be unfair to call Yuki a troll? I don't think the same could be said of Sartoz, have at him.

[Queen Skadi]

They obviously dropped the ball on his design. He should've been dressed like this.

 

 

if Bioware wants to dress one of their squadmates like this you will get no objections from me, in fact I insist they dress all the male squadmates like this!

 

I have seen that picture before but I have no idea what it is from? Is it Sean Connery?

[KaiserShep]

Well, there is Iron Bull, though you never see his thighs. 

[AtreiyaN7]

if Bioware wants to dress one of their squadmates like this you will get no objections from me, in fact I insist they dress all the male squadmates like this!

 

I have seen that picture before but I have no idea what it is from? Is it Sean Connery?

 

 

Yeah, it's Sean Connery in Zardoz (a fairly bizarre sci-fi movie) - I've watched it a few times.

 

EDIT: In case you want to read about it on IMDB on it, here you go: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/

[Hanako Ikezawa]

if Bioware wants to dress one of their squadmates like this you will get no objections from me, in fact I insist they dress all the male squadmates like this!

So...like the Vorcha? 

[Catastrophy]

I thought Miranda was over the line, but I guess I have to realign to accept ****** and butts being shoved in my face.