74 réponses à ce sujet

[Queen Skadi]

While Bioware do allow their protagonists to do the occasional questionable act for the most part Bioware's latest games have been all heroic fantasy (which is something they themselves would probably (and probably already have) acknowledge) which I suppose if that is the game they want to create then it is their prerogative, but I can't help but express my desire to see the option to be able to play a protagonist with a much darker side, not only that but choices structured around forcing the player to choose between committing a terrible atrocity to accomplish  a goal or refusing and failing their objective and taking a massive loss that hits the player right where it hurts.

 

MGSV kind of teased this idea with it being advertised as "Big Boss's decent into villainy" despite

Spoiler

Not actually playing as Big Boss

but then has missions that feature acts of philanthropy and punishes you for killing children despite those children being an active threat and opposing force despite Big Boss's repeated attempts to help them (yeah I know if the game allowed you to kill children it would be banned in many countries, yadda yadda, still there are games that do allow you to kill children like Deus Ex and the original Fallouts, the game even comments on it!), the game needed more missions like the one where you are forced to shoot your own men to stop the spread of infection.

 

While I am not sure this is something that Bioware is open to I do have to wonder if anyone would like to see this? I think in order for the medium to evolve more developers need to stop shying away from subjects considered taboo.

[Vol_Tang_Clan]

I want a game where I can hire turians and vorcha to do all of the fighting for me, and when the conflict is over, I can abandon them on a barren rock and keep all the earnings for myself. Heroes are two things: poor and ineligible for insurance.

[wolfhowwl]

Time for a SPECTRE game where you play as Tela Vasir and brutally beat question Batarian slavers and silence dissident hackers...permanently.

[Vol_Tang_Clan]

Time for a SPECTRE game where you play as Tela Vasir and brutally beat question Batarian slavers and silence dissident hackers...permanently.

 

Brutally beating batarians is always heroic. It doesn't even matter what they were doing at the time.

[Broganisity]

No.

Mainly because, as far as 'rich storytelling experiences' go, video games rarely hit the mark (at least in regards to being serious about the whole topic.) and I do not think Bioware to be capable of a fully fleshed out villain story, especially with the villain as the protagonist.

[Halfdan The Menace]

I know what you feel. To be a good protagonist, he/she does not have to be heroic, no need for compassion or empathy. What we need is an antihero, the one that lacks the characteristics that would make him/her a hero. Quite simply, antiheroes rocks. Most of them are social outcasts, who have no desire for foolish things such as friendship, like Batman or Wolverine.

[Panda]

I think you can already be pretty ruthless anti-hero especially in ME3. Sabotaging cure and killing Mordin, killing Samara's daughter after Samara committed suicide and so on. You can't be villain, you don't get good guys trying to kill you although they might not approve what you did. But you can be pretty evil already.

 

In other hand.. I'd like heroic stuff take backseat for while and maybe have protagonist who, well, is normal person who gets caught up with things, but doesn't evolve into this OP character that everyone worships and maybe doesn't end up saving the world. I think this could achieved by having character who is simply trying to survive in Andromeda and build up life there, get some friends, search some treasures and so on. But I'm sure this won't happen, we will be this heroic commander once again no matter how paragon or renegade we are.

[Sartoz]

                                                                                                  <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

Isn't the ME:A story about humanity's struggles in survival?

 

Questionable acts in the MW may not apply here. Bio, however, may choose not to present us with such moral dilemmas.  Why should they bother? There is enough material in the Cluster to provide the player with a fun filled story without delving into murky depths.

 

Decision points in Mission selection, Fire Team selection, even the exploration paths you choose to start out at the beginning of the game and Outpost selection, AI unit missions, Tech development decisions are surely enough to provide "meat" for a good game.

 

Questions Bio asked themselves when developing ME:A Protagonist are (IMO):

 

1. Do we start with an experienced bad kick-azz character?

2. Do we use the ARKON mission leader?

3. Do we start out with a 90lbs weakling and end with a Marine bad azz?

4. What is an appropriate background/qualities for  the character?

 

I just wish the Paragon/Renegade moral compass be totally removed.

[Indigenous]

While Bioware do allow their protagonists to do the occasional questionable act for the most part Bioware's latest games have been all heroic fantasy (which is something they themselves would probably (and probably already have) acknowledge) which I suppose if that is the game they want to create then it is their prerogative, but I can't help but express my desire to see the option to be able to play a protagonist with a much darker side, not only that but choices structured around forcing the player to choose between committing a terrible atrocity to accomplish  a goal or refusing and failing their objective and taking a massive loss that hits the player right where it hurts.

 

MGSV kind of teased this idea with it being advertised as "Big Boss's decent into villainy" despite

Spoiler

Not actually playing as Big Boss

but then has missions that feature acts of philanthropy and punishes you for killing children despite those children being an active threat and opposing force despite Big Boss's repeated attempts to help them (yeah I know if the game allowed you to kill children it would be banned in many countries, yadda yadda, still there are games that do allow you to kill children like Deus Ex and the original Fallouts, the game even comments on it!), the game needed more missions like the one where you are forced to shoot your own men to stop the spread of infection.

 

While I am not sure this is something that Bioware is open to I do have to wonder if anyone would like to see this? I think in order for the medium to evolve more developers need to stop shying away from subjects considered taboo.

 

I am not too sure about this. Most of Bioware's games feature a 'special' protagonist that is forced to do something or they would die. You can argue that they were being heroic but as you already mentioned Shepard, the Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor could do some pretty shitty things. So while they are forced to fight they have some variety in how they fight.

 

I don't mind being left with a choice of destroying a planet with trillions of people living on it to kill an extremely dangerous 'enemy' or .. not, and risk having that enemy escape. Choices. Consequences. I do think that recently Bioware only seem to reward you for doing 'good' things and never punish you for it. So choices in their games are quite easy to make.

 

I don't think EA wants to be recognised as a company that allows you to kill children in their games. Having already allowed a more open minded culture in Bioware games with the inclusion of homosexual and trans gendered characters. I think they are already knee deep in subjects considered taboo.

 

I know it is a game but why would you want to kill child soldiers.

 

[Fortlowe]

The thing about it is, whether the protagonist is a traditional hero (example: Spider-Man), an anti hero (example: Punisher), or a villain (Example: Dr. Doom), there must be an opposing side to create conflict.

Sure, telling a story with the villain as the protagonist is very possible (examples: Nemesis, Wanted, lots of Joker stories, Hannibal, Jekyll and Hyde), however given the medium in question, a choice based videogame, it's a pretty tall order. I think Bioshock might have come as I can think of doing so.

[JeffZero]

Nope. Never. Heroes forever.

[caradoc2000]

Heroes forever.

Not true - Heroes ended years ago.

[Mathias]

A morally grey protagonist can be very compelling, if written well. But at the end of the day you still gotta be The Hero. Like Han Solo. He's a scoundrel, a smuggler, he shoots his way out of situations, and he's kinda a d***. If things look bad, he'll be like "Screw this, I'm outta here. You guys are on your own." But when it comes down to it, he turns around and goes to help them.

 

That's who you gotta be. So yeah I'm open to the idea of being a bit of a rogue who's neutral and out for himself. But when things look bad and the chips are down, he's a good guy.

[AlanC9]

Not true - Heroes ended years ago.

It's coming back.

[AlanC9]

...but I can't help but express my desire to see the option to be able to play a protagonist with a much darker side, not only that but choices structured around forcing the player to choose between committing a terrible atrocity to accomplish  a goal or refusing and failing their objective and taking a massive loss that hits the player right where it hurts.

Which one of those options would the "hero" pick?

[caradoc2000]

It's coming back.

Like Leliana.

 

You thought you killed it, but no....

[Queen Skadi]

I don't think EA wants to be recognised as a company that allows you to kill children in their games. Having already allowed a more open minded culture in Bioware games with the inclusion of homosexual and trans gendered characters. I think they are already knee deep in subjects considered taboo.

 

You are aware that Dante's Inferno and the Dead Space series are both a part of EA's games library aren't you?

 

Spoiler

 

Just one example

 

I believe they even staged a faux christian protest to promote Dante's Inferno and used the fact that you can kill dead babies as a selling point.

 

But that said homosexuality and trans gendered characters arent taboo, there is a massive push for them to be included in more video games and they are a cheap way for developers to say "hey look how progressive and tolerant we are for including minorities in our games", they are the best way to get the SJWs and the gaming media on your side and deflect any and all criticism.

 

I know it is a game but why would you want to kill child soldiers. 

 

With a character as obnoxious as Eli I don't see why you would not want to kill child soldiers.

[Queen Skadi]

The thing about it is, whether the protagonist is a traditional hero (example: Spider-Man), an anti hero (example: Punisher), or a villain (Example: Dr. Doom), there must be an opposing side to create conflict.

Sure, telling a story with the villain as the protagonist is very possible (examples: Nemesis, Wanted, lots of Joker stories, Hannibal, Jekyll and Hyde), however given the medium in question, a choice based videogame, it's a pretty tall order. I think Bioshock might have come as I can think of doing so.

 

The opposing force does not always have to be the exact opposite of the protagonist, it is possible to have another villain opposing a darker protagonist, the sort of antagonist that brings out the worst in the protagonist, the sort that requires the protagonist to become almost as bad in order to defeat them.

[Queen Skadi]

Which one of those options would the "hero" pick?

 

That is the real question isn't it? Can it be considered heroic to avert an atrocity by causing one yourself or will the only thing you accomplish be dethroning one villain only to take their place?

[spinachdiaper]

Strangely amusing statement here, but the last Bioware games where you could almost truly play a absolute villain... SWtOR & SWKotOR. It's weird when you get more evil in Star Wars (rated T) than games like Dragon Age (rated M) and Mass Effect (rated M).

[JGDD]

I wouldn't mind a much more fleshed out anti-hero role. But we know that's not going to happen because we are always going to be the one to save the day.

 

Although you should keep in mind that no matter what the game provides, we are in fact going to be the invasive species in this rendition. Along with whatever other aliens happen to catch a ride with us. So if you can fake it using that as a backdrop we are indeed the bad guys if you look at it from those native to that galaxies perspective.

 

We don't belong there. But we're going to *uck up anything that stands in our way regardless.

[Feybrad]

I'd like to be playing a Supervillain please.

[Wulfram]

I don't inherently need a hero, but I need to actually like the protagonist in a computer game. Having them be heroic is a relatively safe way to do this.

Other forms of fiction are different, because they're not participatory in the same way.

[Queen Skadi]

I don't inherently need a hero, but I need to actually like the protagonist in a computer game. Having them be heroic is a relatively safe way to do this.

Other forms of fiction are different, because they're not participatory in the same way.

 

Of course you have to give the player a choice, but what I am saying is I would like to see more games give the player more of a nudge towards the dark side, give more incentives to do harsher things.

[AlanC9]

That is the real question isn't it? Can it be considered heroic to avert an atrocity by causing one yourself or will the only thing you accomplish be dethroning one villain only to take their place?

Works for me. But after the endless whining the ME3 endings set off, are you sure you want to go there?