44 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexxagone]

Does Trespasser pretty much comfirm this? The Maker is just the most powerful Elven Mage that fell in love with a human Andreste and now lives in the Fade?

Or am I wrong?

[Smudjygirl]

No mention of the Maker. However the Chantry says the Maker created the veil, but we now know who did. So there is that

[GT409]

Well, remember what Solas says in banter with Cassandra in the original game:

 

• Cassandra: Solas, if you do not mind me asking, what do you believe in?
• Solas: Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist
• Cassandra: That is not what I meant
• Solas: I know. I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same.
• Cassandra: You have seen much sadness in your journeys, Solas. Following the Maker might offer some hope.
• Solas: I have people, Seeker. The greatest triumphs and tragedies this world has known can all be traced to people.

 

The Maker seems to be a foreign concept to Solas, so The Maker is unlikely to be an Evanuris.

[Aulis Vaara]

Parts of the iconography and some of his achievements can certainly be traced back to the Evanuris, but no "he" wasn't one of them. He effectively does not exist.

[Captmorgan72]

Everybody knows that the Maker is Chuck.

[Hexxagone]

Why do you say he doesnt exist?

[Knight of Dane]

He said that the Evanuris could communicate to elvhen in dreams at first.

 

Maybe, since Andraste might have been a very powerful mage but not elvhen, she could hear them but not understand them, and that is what became her image of the maker.

 

Before her time, I dunno.

[Jeniva]

Plot twist, Sandal is the Maker. 

but seriously, I'm thinking the maker doesn't exist and it is loosely based around Solas .

[Heimdall]

According to an old post by David Gaider, the Neromenians believed in, but didn't worship, an absent creator god prior to adopting the worship of the Old Gods. They probably believed that before even arriving in Thedas.

So belief in the Maker likely isn't traceable to the Evanuris.

Also, I don't believe the Chant says the Maker created the Veil. It says he created the Fade an the physical world as two separate planes, which was true even before the Veil.

[Wulfram]

The entity that Andraste met could have been a twisted fade memory of Fen'harel? Not the man himself, but an echo of him or spirit that mimic him, like "Divine Justinia" that we meet in the fade, but with longer to stray from the truth of the man.

This echo or spirit's relationship with Andraste could be quite similar to that of Lavellen and Solas, but, perhaps because this is an entity of the changing fade and not a solid being of flesh and blood like Solas, he is convinced that this new world of humans and so forth does have value and lends his power (considerable as a spirit, if probably not a match for the true Dread Wolf) to help Andraste make it better, to free the slaves as the real Fen'harel did. And then when Andraste gets killed, he basically says screw it and goes off in a huff.

[lordsaren101]

There is no maker. There is only Dumat.

[ComedicSociopathy]

My guess is that the Maker is the Sun from old Elvhen myth. 

[Precursor Meta]

I was curious to hear a bit more from Cassandra about this. Would she hardened her beliefs in the maker, or would she question if he still existed or not. But wouldn't it be cool if the maker was real? And he comes at the climax of the impending human/Elven war and be like WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE!

[Ferretinabun]

I think the writers are going to keep the Andrastrian (sp?) religion and the Elven pantheon separate. So that they can establish the Elven pantheon as uber-powerful entities for future story purposes, and still keep The Maker as an article of faith.

[Wulfram]

I think the writers are going to keep the Andrastrian (sp?) religion and the Elven pantheon separate. So that they can establish the Elven pantheon as uber-powerful entities for future story purposes, and still keep The Maker as an article of faith.

I find it a touch off-putting that pseudo-christianity seems to get special protection and respect over "pagan" religions.

[Aulis Vaara]

Why do you say he doesnt exist?

Because one of the writers said they would never confirm his existence. This means he cannot effect anything in Thedas, making him effectively impotent and thus non-existent.

[Daerog]

The Maker left the world when people started to worship other things, so the Maker predates the elf gods.

 

Looking through the Chant verses listed on the wikia, I can't find one that says that the Maker created the Veil, just that the Fade was made, then the material world was made apart from the Fade (which is true, there was still a divide between the two, even in ancient elf days). The part where the Veil is mentioned is when spirits looked across the Veil and became jealous of the mortals, turning into demons, and since many spirits likely couldn't fulfill themselves when Solas made the Veil, that is probably true.

 

The devs seem to want to keep the Maker as a source of faith in Dragon Age, so the narrative of the Maker will likely be able to fit into whatever histories are uncovered, but still never be confirmed.

 

I just hope the devs clear up the confusion on how the Chantry views the Maker. While they worship him, they don't expect him to directly intervene, but then people are praying to the Maker to help them in Inquisition, which doesn't make much sense, unless they believe the Maker sends agents in his stead, like Andraste or whatever... Inquisition just seems to conflict with Origins a bit on this part, or maybe it is just me...

[KumoriYami]

the maker could be a mage who rose up sometime after Solas created the Veil and entered unethera...i'd like to think that he saw people trapped in the fade and let them escape by becoming spirits. like the archivist you meet. 

[Daerog]

The Archivist and librarians were always spirits, though.

[Teddie Sage]

No mention of the Maker. However the Chantry says the Maker created the veil, but we now know who did. So there is that

I think Solas is the Maker and that the Imperium Magisters that were exiled and became the first Darkspawns were in fact the Elven Gods. Arlathan was in Tevinter Imperium right? Many ages ago. If this is true, then this means the whole Andrastean religion is based Solas' actions.

[Daerog]

I think Solas is the Maker and that the Imperium Magisters that were exiled and became the first Darkspawns were in fact the Elven Gods. Arlathan was in Tevinter Imperium right? Many ages ago. If this is true, then this means the whole Andrastean religion is based Solas' actions.

 

No, not the whole religion. They believe the Maker created the Fade and material world, and that they were separate. The Fade and Earth were separate, even before Solas was born, as he was once just an elf.

 

There were spirits before Solas took any action.

 

I think the silence of the Old Gods may coincide with the silence of the elf gods. Whether they are the same or not, I'm not going there, but I think the Tevinter empire was on the rise when Solas started his rebellion, and then the elf and Tevinter priests could no longer hear from their gods.

 

Edit: You'd also think that Solas would not have given the orb to Cory if he thought Cory was of the elven pantheon, since he thought Cory was just a silly human mage who was not immortal. The elf gods are immortal, but can be killed, although Solas couldn't kill them.

[The Baconer]

The Golden City is most likely not the seat of the Maker. The creation of Man from Threnodies 5 is bunk.

 

If there be a Maker, it is obviously not what the mortal insects of Thedas thinks it is.

[Ballax]

It is mentioned that the Nerominians had an absentee creator god as established but it is also said that The Creators had their own creator (perhaps the Evunaris had their own god/gods)

 

Now as I see it there are two possibilities:

 

• There was a time when the Maker or his inspiration was real and interacting with the world. I think that the Maker only matters in Dragon Age as a matter of Faith, he does not exist to explain the origin of Thedas but to discuss the subject of faith. If the maker is real I suspect he would not precisely fit the definition of a god, either he would be a benevolent bat basically mundane entity that relied on magic and advanced devices to shape the world. Alternatively he is incredibly powerful but he is so alien and inscrutable that he really only created life as an afterthought or even an accident. Either way I think the Maker, if he exists will be a being who could reasonably be worshiped but who could also reasonably be regarded as just some vaguely important aspect of the universe.
• The Maker doesn't exist. Plenty of unrelated monotheistic religions exist in the real world and that isn't really proof of a god or a validation of the faiths surrounding them.

[Statare]

No, not the whole religion. They believe the Maker created the Fade and material world, and that they were separate. The Fade and Earth were separate, even before Solas was born, as he was once just an elf.

 

There were spirits before Solas took any action.

 

I think the silence of the Old Gods may coincide with the silence of the elf gods. Whether they are the same or not, I'm not going there, but I think the Tevinter empire was on the rise when Solas started his rebellion, and then the elf and Tevinter priests could no longer hear from their gods.

 

Edit: You'd also think that Solas would not have given the orb to Cory if he thought Cory was of the elven pantheon, since he thought Cory was just a silly human mage who was not immortal. The elf gods are immortal, but can be killed, although Solas couldn't kill them.

 

 I believe that the Humans appeared on Thedas after the Elvhen Empire had been nuked by Solas' Veil Bomb. Arlathan fell long before the Humans conquered the Arlathan Forest from the Elven remnants, which happened long long before the Magisters raided the Black City. Both Abelas and World of Thedas Volume 2 support this. In the pre-Veil World, Elves had magic and Dwarves apparently had Titan powers. It is implied in the Lyrium mines the Elves did something to the Dwarves, thus creating the Dwarves we know. Then Mythal dies, sometime after Fen'Harel starts his rebellion, and then Fen'Harel creates the Veil. Humans were mortal and in their own legends, had to learn magic from some outside source (Elves and Old Gods have been accredited to this). This implies they were post-Veil entities and that, thus far, we only know of Dwarves and Elves that pre-date the Veil along with Spirits. Regardless of this, Tevinter Priests lost contact with the Old Gods around the time they raided the Black City. A long time after the Elves were all enslaved, possibly thousands of years after the Elven Gods were severed completely from both the Fade and the Mortal World. The Old Gods are thus pretty much confirmed to be not the Evanuris. What they are, is unclear though, but I have a sneaking suspicion they have something to do with the War between the Elves and the Titan Dwarves.

[Arshei]

No one is going to talk about Sandal?