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Varric and the Stolen Throne (Tresspasser dlc spoilers)


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#1
Mykel54

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The main purpose of DA2 for me was following Hawke´s exploits, which were sumed up in the phrase "rise to power". I played my hawke as a loghain-like character who thought only she knew what was the best for the city, and wanted to become viscountess. So naturally she sides with Meredith and in the end is elected.

 

She also romanced Sebastian and persuaded him to retake Starkhaven.They shared common goals and opinions ( on mage-templar issues, on the chantry, etc.). The union was hinted at in the romance, and would allow Hawke to rule Starkhaven + Kirkwall with him.

 

Flash forward to DAI, Hawle has now left her position as viscount to pursue Corypheus, i am fine with that. This is what the codex says about viscount hawke:

 

While our legitimate viscount has indeed vacated her office (temporarily, I am promised), much of her short reign was spent girding our wounded home. No doubt your leaders heard this is where the ripples of rebellion began. That is true, but it is also where that rebellion was first opposed. As those ripples travel outward, our viscount and Champion contends that the center has earned some calm.

 

So we can extract from the codex that Hawke promised Bran (the seneschal) that she would be back to reassume her position. This fit quite well with my custom hawke´s motivations: after dealing with Corypheus she would go back to rule Kirkwall an unite with Sebastian.

 

Flash forward to the Tresspasser dlc (SPOILERS)

 

And Varric has been elected by Kirkwall´s noblemen as viscount. He justifies that it is because

 

1) He contributed to the reparations of the city: i understand this point, sure he spent a lot of his money in getting things back up and running. However other people were also helping the city out, most notably Aveline, if not investing money then maintaining order and security. I don´t see why a dwarf would be elected viscount of a human city juts because he invest money on it, there are better candidates, other noblemen who were likely also interested in seeing the city restored. Unless nobody told me that Varric is now Kirkwall´s top millionarie - Hawke also went to the deep roads expedition, so it´s not like she doesn´t have money or interest in investing in her home city.

 

2) Nobody wanted it, as noblemen think it is cursed: this makes no sense to me if your previous viscount is the champion who defeated the qunari. It makes some sense if the last viscount was the templar´s puppet Dumar, who was beheaded by the Arishok.

 

So Varric becomes the viscount even if he never liked politics (just talk to the guy in DA2, specially rivalry side), and Hawke is relegated to helping him rule Kirkwall in the dlc epilogue.

 

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Maybe for some Hawkes it does, but certainly not for mine. Specially when i built her around the concept of "rise to power": she started as a refugee, then noblewoman, then champion, then viscountess. It felt like a natural progression, considering that Hawke is not special (no dragon-blood or magic thingies), so having her rule one city state or co-ruling two with sebastian, made sense for me to be her accomplishment.

 

Bioware just decided to radically alter my Hawke´s personality by allowing her to: give up the position she promised Bran to keep, and then allow Varric to take over instead. If at least Hawke had went with Sebastian to rule Starkhaven, and had left Varric in Kirkwall - then it would be passable, still annoying but fine, force the dwarf there if you really want to.

 

Just don´t go and make my PC who was power-hungry and had a rivalry with varric, to give up her position and serve king varric instead as her courtier. It is just stupid. I´m disappointed to say that decisions in DA games are showing to matter next to nothing, they don´t carry over because all save states are equalized, like the OGB becoming a normal one.

 

What do you think about Varric taking over Kirkwall? Did that conflict with any of your characters?

 

I apologise for the wall of text, i needed to get this off my chest. Rant over.


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#2
PrinceLionheart

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From what I got from the actually story Bioware written, and not individual headcanons, is that Hawke was never interested in assuming political positions in Kirkwall. There was an entire gap between Act 2 and 3 where, if Hawke had actually wanted to, they could have thrown their hat in the ring and usurped power from Meredith, but they didn't.

 

 



#3
Boost32

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From what I got from the actually story Bioware written, and not individual headcanons, is that Hawke was never interested in assuming political positions in Kirkwall. There was an entire gap between Act 2 and 3 where, if Hawke had actually wanted to, they could have thrown their hat in the ring and usurped power from Meredith, but they didn't.


When Tallis ask Hawke if the title of Champion made him the leader of Kirkwall, Agressive Hawke says he is not the leader yet. So Agressive Hawke wanted to be Viscount.

#4
Shienis

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My Hawke still haven't returned from the Fade, she has no problem with it. And I absolutely love Varric getting that position, that scene with him was priceless. :)

 

Though I don't know what would happen if she did return. 



#5
Knight of Dane

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I must admit I really hope my viscount Hawke's eventually return to ther throne. But knowing bioware tendency to merge choice lines until they lose all meaning, that has a very small chance.



#6
thesuperdarkone2

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Thus another reason why nobody should ever side with the templars in DA2.


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#7
Knight of Dane

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Thus another reason why nobody should ever side with the templars in DA2.

 

Besides that it makes more sense story-wise for Orsino to go all kamikaze on you when you're his direct opponent?



#8
TheKomandorShepard

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This is what happens when you try bring pc as npc in rpg. :whistle:



#9
thesuperdarkone2

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Besides that it makes more sense story-wise for Orsino to go all kamikaze on you when you're his direct opponent?

Orsino wasn't even supposed to fight you if you sided with the mages originally, so him fighting you if you side with the mages is just bad writing.



#10
TK514

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Orsino wasn't even supposed to fight you if you sided with the mages originally, so him fighting you if you side with the mages is just bad writing.

 

And yet canon all the same.



#11
thesuperdarkone2

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And yet canon all the same.

Doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing.



#12
The Baconer

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Honestly, Varric is going to be a better Viscount anyway.

 

But that's what you get for siding with Meredith.


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#13
helpthisguyplease

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You all do not get it Varric has tons of money and rebuild the city with them bringing people their home back returning Krikwall to the economic power the city was before. While Aveline kept the city safe it did not helped all the thousands I presume who lived on the street because their houses where destroyed and their means of survival was cut. Who are you more grateful towards the one who brings you a roof over your head and means to survive or the one who keeps you safe from other killing you while you are the mercy of the elements and no means to make a living?

By the way because Varric is dwarf that does not mean he can not become a viscount considering there is a very large population of dwarves on Kirkwall and probably the richest person in the city. A elf would have been strange dwarves have high standing in human society.



#14
TK514

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You all do not get it Varric has tons of money and rebuild the city with them bringing people their home back returning Krikwall to the economic power the city was before. While Aveline kept the city safe it did not helped all the thousands I presume who lived on the street because their houses where destroyed and their means of survival was cut. Who are you more grateful towards the one who brings you a roof over your head and means to survive or the one who keeps you safe from other killing you while you are the mercy of the elements and no means to make a living?

By the way because Varric is dwarf that does not mean he can not become a viscount considering there is a very large population of dwarves on Kirkwall and probably the richest person in the city. A elf would have been strange dwarves have high standing in human society.

 

Hawke wasn't exactly poor.  And the codex entry seems to suggest they were doing just as much to stabilize and rebuild Kirkwall as Varric.  Varric just got home sooner.

 

Not that I am opposed to Viscount Tethras, mind you.  I'm sure he'll do a great job on the domestic front, though his diplomacy with other city states could use some work.



#15
Boost32

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Honestly, Varric is going to be a better Viscount anyway.
 
But that's what you get for siding with Meredith.

He is going to be a better one, still BioWare shouldn't have made him Viscount if Hawke was.

And its much better than siding with Orsino.

#16
DarkKnightHolmes

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Varric is like Garrus, Tali and Liara. Even if you treat them like cr*p, the game magically makes them your buddy in the next game.


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#17
TK514

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Doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing.

Bad writing or not, Orsino was still a blood mage moron.



#18
Augustei

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Hawke wasn't exactly poor.  And the codex entry seems to suggest they were doing just as much to stabilize and rebuild Kirkwall as Varric.  Varric just got home sooner.

 

Not that I am opposed to Viscount Tethras, mind you.  I'm sure he'll do a great job on the domestic front, though his diplomacy with other city states could use some work.

Could use some work, that's putting it lightly. Just ignores all mail from the ruler of the most powerful city state in The Free Marches, Oh and ignores all mail from one of the most powerful merchant factions in Thedas as well (Dwarven Merchants Guild). Guy really isn't leader material if he goes and does something that stupid.


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#19
Hanako Ikezawa

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They already butchered Hawke for a lot of players in the base game, so I'm not surprised they did this. 



#20
thats1evildude

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Isn't Hawke missing and/or dead now?



#21
myahele

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I'm not surprised the nobles thought it was cursed; in just ~20 years Kirkwall had 3 viscount (including Hawke) ousted/killed. Especially now that they're still recovering



#22
Boost32

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Isn't Hawke missing and/or dead now?


Hawke came back if he is alive, he is helping Varric to manage Kirkwall in the epilogue.

#23
The Baconer

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And its much better than siding with Orsino.

 

Take the lesser of two evils.



#24
Boost32

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Take the lesser of two evils.


Meredith was the lesser evil.

#25
The Baconer

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Meredith was the lesser evil.

 

As the architect of the Gallows' operation and most problems therein, no.